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Digitized  by  the  Internet  Archive 

in  2007  with  funding  from 

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http://www.archive.org/details/debatesresolutioOOmainrich 


THE 

DEBATES, 

RESOLUTIONS,  AND  OTHER  PROCEEDINGS, 

OF    THE 

CONVENTION  OF  DELEGATES, 


ASSEMBLED  AT  PORTLAND  ON  THE  IItH,  AND  CONTINUED  UNTIL 

THE  29th  DAY  OF  OCTOBER,  1819,  FOR  THE  PURPOSE  OK 

FORMING  A  CONSTITUTION  FOR  THE 


STATE  OF  MAINE. 


•TO   WHICH  IS  PREFIXES 


THE  COJVSTITUTIOJY^ 


BY  JEREMIAH  PERLEY, 

COUNSELLOR  AT    LAW. 


PORTLAND  : 

A.  SHIRLEY,  PRINTER. 


1820. 


/  ^/9 

A/3 

District  of  maine,  ss.  oept. 

Be  it  remembered  that  on  this  twenty  fifth  day  of  November,  lit 
the  year  of  our  Lord  one  thousand  eight  hundred  and  nineteea 
and  the  forty  fourth  year  of  the  Independence  of. the  I  nited  States 
of  America,  Jeremiah  Terley,  of  the  District  of  Maine,  has  depos- 
ited in  this  office  the  title  of  a  book,  the  right  whereof  he  claims  as 
Proprietor  in  the  words  following  :  viz. 

"  The  Debates,  R'  solutions,  and  other  proceedings  of  the  Con- 
vention of  Delegates,  assemble.!  at  Portland  on  the  11th  and  contin- 
ed  until  the  ^9th  day  of  October,  1819,  forthf  purpose  of  forming  a 
constitution  for  the  STATE  OF  MAINE.  To  which  is  prefixed  the 
Constitution.  Taken  in  Convention,  by  Jeremiah  Perley.  Counsellor 
at  Law.     Portland  ;  Printed  by  A.  Shirley.      1820."" 

In  conformity  to  the  Act  of  the  Congress  oifthe  United  States,  en- 
titled, "An  Act  for  the  eucouragement  of  Learning,  by  tecuriiigthe 
copies  of  maps,  charts  and  books  to  the  authors  and  proprietors  of 
such  copies,  during  the  times  therein  mei  tioned."  And  also  to  an  act 
entitled,  '' An  Act  supplementary  to  an  act  entitled  an  Act  for  the 
encouragement  of  Learning,  by  securing  the  copiesof  maps,  charts 
and  books  to  the  authors  and  proprietors  of  such  copies,  during  the 
times  therein  mentioned;  and  extending  the  benefits  thereof  to  the 
arts  of  designing,engraving  and  etching  historical  and  other  prints." 
TrMJTVT  «*nacL^v  T  S  CI  fk  of  the  District 
JOHNMUSSLY,  Jr.    |        Court,  Maine. 

A  triie  copy  &s  of  record.^ 

Attest,  J.  McssEY,  Jr.  Clerk  D.  C.  M. 


5<^ 


ADVERTISEMENT. 


IN  presenting  to  the  public  an  account  of  the  proceedings  of  the 
i^bnvention,  which  framed  the  Constitution  .'for  the  New  State,  re- 
gard has  been  had,  not  only  to  the  gratification  of  a  liberal  curiosi- 
ty, b'lt  to  the  preservation  r,f  an  aulhontic  recor.i  for  future  times. 
The  assembling  of  that  venerable  body,  wa>  the  most  interesting; 
event  in  our  histdry.  The  object  of  their  meeting  was  the  most  im- 
portant, that  can  be  undertaken,  by  men  who  enjoy  the  inestima- 
ble blessing  of  self-government.  They  were  to  lay  the  fo  in  ations 
of  the  state — '  nd  the  result  of  their  labors  was  to  b  an  Acl^  which, 
if acceptabh' to  the  people,  was  to  endire,  and  to  influe  ce  th  ir 
happiness,  forages.  The  deliberations  of  such  an  Assembly,  though, 
happily  for  Ameri  ans,  not  a  novel  spectacle,  yet  must  be  vi-wcd 
\sith  the  deepest  interest,  especially  by  those  for  whom  they  were 
acting.  That  interest  is  by  "O  means  impaired  by  «h^  candor,  mag- 
nanimity, a  d  good  feelings  which  characterised  their  proceed  ngs. 
They  are  auspicious  of  that  n  en  ousand  enlighte  ie  i  spirit,  which 
it  is  so  ardently  to  b'  desired,  may  istinguish  the  organizing  and  U'l-- 
2j[iiii!  Lering  of  the  new  government. 

It  IS  surely  desirable,  that  some  memoria'  sh  uld  exist,  besides 
the  constitution  itself,  fthc  means  by  w  ich  so  ma  ly  opposite  op:n- 
i  )ns  were  reconciled,  an  !  the  cfFurts  by  which  that  important  in* 
stru  n*  nt  was  juatured.  It  is  easy  to  conceive,  what  instruction 
would  be  derived,  from  a  faithful  history  of  the  proceedings  of  that 
august  assembly,  which  iVanied  the  Coni:?titution  of  the  United  States,. 
And  although  most  of  the  fundamental  principles  of  a  free  govern- 
ment are  now  too  well  understood  and  settled  in  this  country,  to 
have  undergone  much  deb  »te  in  the  late  convention,  yet  the  var  a- 
lions  from  the  est  ibli  bed  forms  to  which  we  had  been  accustomed, 
and  the  new  provisionr,  were  ably  discussed,  and  their  policy  illus- 
trated ;  and  to  these  pareswIU  those  recur  who  arc  desirous  of 
learning  the  reasons  of  their  adoption. 

The  proceedings  have  been  mostly  taken  from,  or  compared  with. 


Mi689S 


IV. 

the  Journal  of  the  ConventioQ,  and  the  Debates  from  minutes  taken 
at  the  delivery,  and  in  many  instances  revised  by  the  speakers.  No 
eare  or  pains  have  been  spared,  to  render  the  work  perfectly  cor- 
rect ;  and  to  make  it  a  valuable  manual  for  evtry  citizen  of  Maine. 

It  WPS  thought  best  not  to  encumber  the  book  with  the  first  draft  of 
the  Constitution  as  reported,  nor  the  verbal  alterations  which  it  un- 
derwent ;  such  important  amendments  as  were  adopted,  or  were 
proposed  and  discussed,  are  duly  noticed. 

The  accompanying  documents  will  not  be  thought  to  detract 
from  the  value  of  the  publication. 

Portland,  D^c.   1819. 


CONSTITUTION  OF  MAINE. 


WE  the  people  of  Maine,  in  order  to  establish  justice,  ensure 
tranquillity,  provide  for  our  mutual  defence,  promote  our  com- 
mon welfare,  and  secure  to  ourselves  aixl  our  posterity  the  bless- 
ings of  Liberty,  acknowledging  with  grateful  hearts  the  good- 
iress  of  the  Sovereign  Ruler  of  the  Universe  in  afforui:>g  us  an 
opportunity  so  favorable  to  the  design  ;  and  iuploring  his  aid 
and  direction  in  its  accomplishment,  do  agree  to  form  ourselves 
into  a  free  and  independent  State,  by  the  style  and  title  of  the 
State  of  Maine,  and  do  ordain  and  establish  the  following  Con- 
stitu'.ion  for  the  government  of  the  same. 
ARTICLE  L 
DECLARATION  OF  RIGHTS. 

Sec.  L  All  men  are  born  equally  free  and  independent, 
and  have  certain  natural,  inherent  and  unalienable  rights,  among 
which  are  those  of  enjoying  and  defending  life  and  liberty,  ac- 
quiring, possessing  and  protecting  property,  and  of  pursuing 
and  obtaining  safety  and  happiness. 

Sec.  2.  All  power  is  inherent  in  the  people  ;  all  free  gov- 
ernments are  founded  in  their  authority,  and  instituted  for  their 
benefit ;  they  have  therefore  an  unalienai)le  and  indefeasible 
right  to  institute  government,  and  to  alter,  reform,  or  totally 
change  the  same,  when  their  safety  and  happiness  require  it. 

Sec.  3.  All  men  have  a  natural  and  unalienable  fi^ht  to 
worship  Almighty  God  according  to  the  dictates  of  their  own 
consciences,  and  no  one  shall  be  hurt,  molested  or  restrained 
in  his  person,  liberty  or  estate,  for  worshipping  God  in  the  man- 
ner and  season  most  agreeable  to  the  dictates  of  his  own%con- 
scienre,  nor  for  his  religious  proft^ssions  or  sentiments,  provided 
he  does  not  disturb  the  public  peace, nor  obstruct  others  in  their 
religious  worship  ; — and  ail  persons  demeaning  themselves 
peaceably,  as  good  members  of  the  State,  shall  be  equally  un- 
der the  protection  of  the  laws,  and  no  subordination  nor  prefer- 
ence of  any  one  sect  or  denomination  to  another  shall  ever  be 
established  by  law,  nor  shall  any  religious  test  be  required  as  a 
qualification  for  any  office  or  trust,  under  this  Stale  ;  and  all  re- 
1* 


ligious  societies  in  this  State,  vvhethei  incorporate  or  unincorpo- 
rate,  ehall  at  all  times  have  the  exclusive  right  of  electing  their 
public  teachers,  and  contractii  g  with  them  for  their  support  and 
maintenance. 

Skc.  4.  Every  citizen  may  freely  speak,  write  and  publish 
his  sentiments  on  any  subject,  being  responsi{)le  for  the  abuse 
of  this  liberty  ;  no  laws  shall  be  passed  regulating  or  restraining 
(he  freedom  of  the  press  ;  and  in  prosecutions  f(  r  any  publication 
respecting  ihe  (official  conduct  oi  men  in  public  capacity,  or  !he 
qualifications  of  those  who  are  candidates  for  the  sulfrages  of  the 
people  or  where  the  matter  publi.-hed  is  proper  tor  public  in- 
formation, the  truth  ihereol  may  be  giv^n  in  evidence,  and  in 
all  indictments  for  libels,  the  Jury,  after  having  received  the  di- 
rection of  the  Court,  shall  have  a  right  to  deteru'ine,  at  their 
discretion,  the  law  and  the  fact. 

Sec  5.  The  people  shall  be  secure  in  their  persons,  houses, 
papers  and  possessions,  from  unreasonable  searches  and  seiz- 
ures ;  and  no  warrant  toseaich  any  place,  or  seize  any  person 
or  thing,  shall  issue  without  special  designation  of  the  place  to 
be  searched,  and  the  person  or  thing  to  be  seized,  nor  without 
probable  cause,  supported  by  oath  or  affirmation. 

Sec.  6.  In  all  criminal  prosecutions,  the  accused  shall  have 
a  right  to  be  heard  by  hiraaelf  and  his  counsel,  or  either,  at  hi.^ 
election  ; 

To  demand  the  nature  and  cause  of  the  accusation,  and  have 
a  copy  thereof  J 

To  be  confronted  by  the  witnesses  ag-^inst  him  ; 

To  have  compulsory  process  for  obtaining  witnesses  in  his 
favcr; 

To  have  a  speedy,  public  and  impartial  tiial,  and,  except  in 
trials  by  martial  law  or  impeachment,  by  a  Jury  of  the  vicinity. 
He  shnll  not  be  compelled  to  furnish  or  give  evidence  against 
himself,  nor  be  deprived  of  his  life,  liberty,  properly  or  privi- 
leges, but  by  judgment  of  his  peers,  or  the  law  of  the  land. 

Sec.  7.  No  person  shall  be  held  to  answer  for  a  capital  or 
infamous  crime,  unless  on  a  presentment  or  indictment  of  a  grand 
jury,  except  in  cases  of  impeachment,  or  in  «uch  cases  of  offences, 
as  are  usually  cogniz  ible  by  a  justice  of  the  peace,  or  in  cases 
aiising  in  the  army  or  navy,  or  in  ihe  militia  when  in  actual  ser- 
vice in  time  of  war  or  public  danger.  The  Legislature  shall 
provide  by  law  a  suitable  and  impartial  mode  of  selecting  juiies, 
and  their  usual  numb<2r  and  unanimity,  in  indictments  and  con 
victions,  shall  be  held  indispensable. 


Sec  8.  No  person,  for  the  same  offence,  shall  be  twice  put 
in  jeopardy  otiife  or  limb. 

Sec.  9.  Sanguinary  laws  shall  not  be  passed  ;  all  penalties 
and  punishments  shall  be  proportioned  to  the  otfence  :  excessive 
bail  shall  not  be  required,  nor  excessive  fine^s  imposed,  nor  cruel 
nor  unusual  punishinents  inflicied 

Sec.  10.  All  persons,  before  conviction,  shall  be  bailable, 
except  for  capital  offences,  where  ihe-proof  is  evident  or  the  pre- 
sumption great  And  the  privilege  of  the  wni  o(  Habeas  Cor- 
pus ^haW  not  be  suspended,  unless  when  in  cases  of  rebellion  or 
invasion,  the  public  safety  may  require  it. 

Sec.  11.  The  Legislature  shall  pass  no  bill  of  attainder,  ex 
post/hcio  law,  nor  law  iirpairing  ihe  obligation  of  contracts,  and 
no  attainder  shall  work  corruption  of  blood,  nor  forfeiture  of 
estate. 

Sec.  12.  Treason  against  this  State  shall  consist  only  in 
levying  war  against  it,  adhering  to  its  enemies,  giving  them  aid 
and  comtbrt.  No  person  shall  be  convicted  of  treason  unless  on 
the  testimony  of  two  witnesses  to  the  tame  overt  act,  or  confes- 
sion in  open  court. 

Sec  13.  The  laws  shall  not  be  suspended  but  by  the  Legis- 
lature or  its  authority. 

Sec.  14.  No  person  shall  be  subject  to  corporeal  punish- 
ment under  inilitary  law,  except  such  as  are  employed  in  the 
army  or  navy,  or  in  the  militia  when  in  actual  service  in  time 
of  war  or  public  danger. 

Sec  15.  The  people  have  a  right  at  all  times  in  an  orderly 
and  peaceable  manner  to  assemble  to  consult  upon  the  common 
good,  to  give  instructions  to  their  representatives,  and  to  request, 
of  either  depa'rtment  of  the  government  by  petition  or  remon- 
strance, redress  of  their  wrongs  and  grievances 

Sec  16.  Every  citizen  has  a  right  to  keep  and  bear  arms 
for  the  common  defence  ;  and  this  right  shall  never  be  ques- 
tioned. 

Sec  17.  No  standing  army  shall  be  kept  up  in  time  of 
peace  without  the  consent  of  the  Legislature,  and  the  military 
shall,  in  all  cases,  and  at  all  times  be  in  strict  subordination  to 
the  civil  power. 

Sec.  18.  No  soldier  shall  in  time  of  peace  be  quartered 
in  any  bouse  without  the  consent  of  the  owner  or  occupant,  nor 
in  time  of  war,  but  in  a  manner  to  be  prescribed  by  law. 

Sec.  19.     Every  person  for  an  injury  done  him  In  his  per- 


8 

son,  reputation,  propertj  or  immunities,  shall  have  remedy  by 
due  course  of  law  ;  and  right  and  justice  shall  be  administered 
freely  and  without  sale,  completely  and  without  denial,  promptly 
and  without  delay. 

Sec  20.  In  all  civil  suits  and  in  all  controversies  concerning 
property,  the  parties  shell  have  a  right  to  a  ir.al  by  yiry,  except 
in  cases  where  il  has  heretofore  been  otherwise  practised  :  the 
party  claiming  the  right  may  be  beard  by  himr*elf  and  his  coun- 
sel, or  either,  at  his  election. 

Sec.  21.  Private  property  shall  not  he  taken  for  public  uses 
without  just  compensation  ;  nor  unless  the  public  exigencies  re- 
quire it. 

Sec.  22.  No  tax  or  duty  shall  be  imposed  without  the  con- 
sent  of  the  people  or  of  their  Representatives  in  »he  Legislature. 

Sec.  23.  No  title  of  nobility  or  hereditary  distinction,  privi- 
lege, honor  or  emolument,  shall  ever  be  granted  or  confirmed, 
nor  shall  any  office  be  created,  the  appointment  to  which  shall  be 
for  a   longer  time  than  during  gflod  behaviour. 

Sec.  24.  The  enumeration  of  certain  rights  shall  not  impair 
nor  deny  others  retained  by  the  people. 

ARTICLE  IL 
ELECTORS. 

Sec  L  Every  male  citizen  of  the  United  States  of  the  age 
of  twenty-one  years  and  upwards,  excepting  paupers,  persons 
under  guardianship,  and  Indians  not  taxed,  having  his  residence 
established  in  this  State  for  the  t«rm  of  three  months  next  pre- 
ceding any  election,  shall  lie  an  elector  for  Governor,  Senators 
and  Representatives,  in  the  town  or  plantation  where  his  ren^ 
denceisso  established  ;  and  the  elections  shall  be  by  written 
ballot.  But  persons  in  the  military,  naval  or  marine  service  of 
the  United  States,  or  this  State,  shall  not  be  considered  as  having 
obtained  such  established  residence  by  being  stationed  in  any 
garrison,  barrack  or  miUtary  place,  in  any  town  or  plantation  ; 
nor  shall  the  residence  of  a  student  at  any  seminary  of  learning 
entitle  him  to  the  right  of  suffrage  in  the  town  or  plantation 
where  such  seminary  is  established. 

Sec.  2.  Electors  shall,  in  all  cases,  except  treason,  felony  of 
breach  of  the  peace,  be  privileged  from  arrest  on  the  days  of 
election,  during  their  attendance  at,  going  to,  and  returning 
therefrom. 

Sec  3.  No  elector  shall  he  obliged  to  do  duty  in  the  n.ilitia 
on  any  day  of  election,  except  in  time  of  war  or  public  danger, 


9 

Sec.  4.  The  election  of  Governor,  Senators  and  Represent- 
atives, shall  be  on  the  second  Monday  of  September  annually 
forever. 

ARTICLE  III. 
DISTRIBUTION  OF  POWERS. 
Sec.  1.     The  powers  of  this  Government  shall  be  divided 
into  three  distinct  Departments,  the  Legislative,  Executive  and 
Judicial, 

Sec.  2.  No  person  or  persons,  Iselongjing  to  one  of  these 
Departments,  shall  exercise  any  of  the  powers  properly  belong- 
ing to  either  of  the  others,  except  in  the  eases  herein  expressly 
directed  or  permitted. 

ARTICLE  IV— Par/  First, 
Legislative  Power — Llouse  of  Representatives, 
Sec.  1.  The  Legislative  power  shall  be  vested  in  two  dis- 
tinct branches,  a  House  of  Representatives,  and  a  Senate,  each 
to  have  a  neG;ative  on  the  other,  and  both  to  be  styled  the  Leg' 
islaiure  of  Maine,  and  the  style  of  their  Acts  and  Laws,  shall 
be,  '•  Be  it  enacted  by  the  Senate  and  House  of  Representatives 
in  Legislature  assembled.''^ 

Sec.  2.  The  House  of  Representatives  shall  consist  of  not 
ks3  than  one  hundred  nor  more  than  tvvo  hundred  members,  to 
be  elected  by  the  qualified  electors  for  one  year  from  the  day 
next  precediufj  the  annual  meeting  of  the  Legislature.  The 
Legislature,  which  shall  first  be  convened  under  this  Constitu- 
tion, shall,  on  or  before  the  filteenth  day  of  August  in  the  year 
of  our  Lord  one  thousand  eight  hundred  and  twenty  one,  and 
the  L^i^islature,  within  every  subsequent  period  of  at  most  {en 
years  and  at  least  five,  cause  the  number  of  the  inhabitants  of 
the  State  to  be  ascertained,  exclusive  of  foreisjners  not  natural- 
ized, and  Indians  not  taxed.  The  number  of  Representatives 
shall,  at  the  several  periods  of  making  such  enumeration,  be 
fixed  and  apportioned  among  the  several  counties,  as  near  as 
may  be,  according  to  (he  number  of  inhabitants,  having  regard 
to  the  relative  increase  of  population.  The  number  of  Repre- 
sentatives shall,  on  said  first  apportionment,  be  not  less  than 
one  hundred  nor  more  than, one  hundred  and  fifty  ;  and,  when- 
ever the  number  of  Representatives  shall  be  two  hundred,  at  the 
next  annual  meetings  of  election?,  which  shall  thereafter  be  had, 
and  at  every  subsequent  period  of  ten  year?,  the  people  shall 
give  in  their  votes,  w^iether  the  number  of  Representatives 
shall  be  increased  or  diminished,  and  if  a  majority  of  votes  are 


19 

in  favor  thereof,  it  shall  be  the  duty  of  the  next  Legislature* 
thereafter  to  increase  or  diminish  the  number  by  the  rule  here- 
inafter prescribed. 

Sec.  3.  Each  town  having  fifteen  hundred  inhabitants  may 
elect  one  representative  ;  each  town  having  three  thousand  sev- 
en hundred  and  fifty  may  elect  two  ;  each  town  having  six  thou- 
sand seven  hundred  and  fifiy  may  elect  three  ;  each  town  having 
ten  thousand  five  hundred  may  elect  four  ;  each  town  having 
fifteen  thousand  may  elect  five  ;  each  town  having  twenty  thou- 
sand two  hundred  and  fifty  may  elect  six;  each  town  having 
twenty  six  thousand  two  hundred  and  fifty  inhabitants  may 
elect  ?even  ;  but  no  town  shall  ever  be  entitled  to  more  than 
seven  representatives  ;  and  towns  and  plantations  duly  organi- 
zed, not  having  fifteen  hundred  inhabitants,  shall  be  classed,  as 
conveniently  as  may  be,  into  districts  containing  that  number, 
and  so  as  not  to  divide  towns  ;  and  each  such  district  may  elect 
one  representative  ;  and,  when  on  this  ap[)ortiormient  the  num- 
ber of  representatives  shall  b«  two  hundred,  a  dififerent  appor- 
tionment shall  take  place  upon  the  above  principle  ;  and,  ir> 
case  the  fifteen  hundred  shall  be  loo  large  or  too  small  to  appor- 
tion all  the  representatives  to  any  county,  it  shall  be  so  increas- 
ed or  dimi!)i:>hed  as  to  give  the  number  of  representatives  ac- 
cording to  the  above  rule  and  proportion  ;  and  whenever  any 
town  or  towns,  platitatiun  or  plantations  not  entitled  to  elect  a 
representative  shall  determine  against  a  classification  with  any 
other  town  or  plantation,  the  Legislature  may,  at  each  a[)por- 
tionment  of  representatives,  on  the  application  of  such  town  or 
plantation,  authorize  it  to  elect  a  representative  for  such  portion 
oi  time  and  such  periods,  as  shall  be  equal  to  its  portion  of 
Yeprespntation  ;  and  the  rigbt  of  represenlatim,  so  established; 
shall  not  be  altered  until  the  next  general  apportionment. 

Sec.  4.  No  person  shall  be  a  memktr  oi  Ibe  House  of  Rep- 
resentatives, unless  be  shall,  at  the  corrmjencement  oi  the  period 
for  which  he  is  elected,  have  been  five  years  a  dtizen  of  the 
United  States,  have  Jirrived  at  the  age  of  twenty,  one  year?,  have 
been  a  resident  in  this  Slate  one  year,  or  from  tbe  adoption  of 
this  GonstilutiOM  ;  and,  for  the  three  'nonihs  next  preceding  the 
time  of  his  election  sbail  have  been,  and,  during  the  i>eriod  for 
which  he  is  elected,  shall  continue  to  be  a  resident  in  the  town 
ordistric'  which  be   lepiesents. 

Sec.  5  The  meetings  for  the  choice  of  representatives  shall 
be  warned  in  due  course  of  law   by  the  selectmen  of  the  several 


11 

lewns  seven  days  at  least  before  the  election,  and  the  selectmen 
thereof  shall  preside  impartially  at  such  meetings,  receive  the 
votes  of  all  the  qualified  electors  present,  sort,  count  and  declare 
them  in  open  town  meeting,  and  in  the  presence  of  the  town 
clerk,  who  shall  form  a  list  of  the  persons  voted  for,  with  the 
number  of  votes  for  each  person  against  his  name,  shall  make 
a  fair  record  thereof  in  Ihe  presence  of  the  selectmen,  and  in 
open  town  mee'ing  ;and  a  fair  copy  of  this  list  shall  be  attested 
by  the  selectmen  and  town  clerk,  and  delivered  by  said  select- 
men to  each  representative  wiihin  ten  days  next  after  such  elec- 
tion. And  the  towns  and  plantations  organized  by  law,  belong- 
ing to  any  class  herein  provided,  shall  hold  their  meetings  at 
the  same  time  in  the  respective  towns  and  plantations  ;  and  the 
town  and  plantation  meeting-^  in  such  towns  and  plantations  shall 
be  notified,  held  and  regulated,  the  rotes  received,  sorted,  count- 
ed and  declared  in  the  same  manner.  And  the  assessors  and  , 
clerks  of  plantations  shall  have  ail  the  powers,  and  be  subject 
to  ail  ihe  duties,  which  selectmen  and  town  clerks  have,  and  are 
subject  to  by  (Lis  Constitution.  And  the  selectmen  of  such 
towns,  and  the  assessors  of  such  plantations,  so  classed,  shall, 
within  lour  days  next  after  such  meetings  meet  at  sorhe  place, 
to  be  prescribed  and  notified  by  the  selectmen  or  assessors  of 
the  eldest  town,  or  plantation,  in  such  class,  and  the  copies  of 
said  lists  shall  be  then  examined  and  compared  ;  and  in  case  any 
person  shall  be  elected  by  a  majority  of  all  the  votes,  the  se- 
lectmen or  assessors  shall  deliver  the  certified  co[)ies  of  such 
lists  to  the  person  so  elected,  within  ten  days  next  after  such 
election  ;  and  the  clerks  of  towns  and  plantations  respectively 
shall  seal  up  copies  of  all  m-zh  lists  and  cause  them  to  be  deliv- 
ered into  the  Secretary's  office  twenty  days  at  least  before  the 
first  Wednesday  in  January  annually  ;  but  in  case  no  perton 
shall  have  a  majority  of  votes,  (he  selectmen  and  assessors  shall, 
as  soon  as  may  be,  notify  another  meeting,  and  the  same  pro- 
ceedings shall  be  had  at  every  future  n)eeting  until  an  election 
shall  have  been  effected  :  Provided^  That  the  Legislature  may 
by  lavr  prescribe  a  different  mode  of  returning,  examining  and 
ascertaining  the  election  of  the  representatives  in  such  classes. 

Sec  6.  Whenever  the  seat  of  a  member  shall  be  vacated 
by  death,  resignation,  or  otherwise,  the  vacancy  may  be  filled 
by  a  new  election 

Sec  7.  The  House  of  Representatives  shall  choose  their 
Speaker,  Clerk  and  other  officers. 


12 

Sec.  8.     The  House  of  Representatives  shall  have  the  sole 
power  of  impeachment. 

ARTICLE  W.—Part  Second, 
SENATE. 
Sec.  1.  The  Senate  shall  consist  of  not  less  than  twenty, 
nor  more  than  thirty  one  members,  elected  at  the  same  lime, 
and  for  the  same  term,  as  the  representatives,  by  the  qualified 
electors  of  the  districts,  into  which  the  State  shall  from  time  to 
time  be  divided. 

Sec.  2.  The  Legislature,  which  .^hall  be  first  convened  un- 
der this  Constitution,  shall,  on  or  before  the  fifteenth  day  of 
August  in  the  year  of  our  Lord  one  thousand  eight  hundred  and 
twenty-one,  and  ihe  Legislature  at  every  subsequent  period  of 
ten  years,  cause  the  sta  e  to  be  divided  into  districts  for  the 
choice  of  Senators.  The  ds  ricts  shall  conform,  as  near  as  may 
be,  to  county  lines,  and  be  apportioned  according;  to  the 
number  of  inhabitants.  The  number  of  Senators  shall  not 
exceed  twenty  at  the  first  apportionment, and  shall  at  each 
apportionment  be  increased,  until  they  shall  amount  to 
thirty-one,  according  to  the  increase  in  the  House  of  Repre- 
sentatives. 

Sec.  3.  The  meetings  for  the  election  of  Senators  shall 
be  notified,  held  and  regulated,  and  the  votes  received, 
sorted,  counted,  declared  and  recorded,  in  the  same  man- 
ner as  those  for  Representatives.  And  fair  copies  of  the 
lists  of  voles  shall  be  attested  by  the  selectmen  and  town 
clerks  of  towns,  and  the  assessors  and  clerks  of  planta- 
tions, and  sealed  up  in  open  town  and  plantation  meetings; 
and  the  town  and  plantation  clerks  respectively  shall  cause 
the  same  to  be  delivered  into  the  Secretary's  office  thirty 
days  at  least  before  the  first  Wednesday  of  January.  All 
other  qualified  electors,living  in  places  unincorporated,  who 
shall  be  assessed  to  the  support  of  government  by  the  asses- 
sors of  an  adjacent  town,  shall  have  the  privilege  of  voting 
for  Senators,  Representatives  and  Governor  in  such  town  ; 
and  shall  be  notified  by  the  selectmen  thereof  for  that  pur- 
pose accordingly. 

Sec.  4.  The  Governor  and  Council  shall,  as  soon  as 
may  be,  examine  the  returned  copies  of  such  lists,  and,twen- 
ty  days  before  the  said  first  VVednesdayof  January,  issue 
a  summons  to  such  persons,  as  shall  appear  to  be  elected 
by  a  majority  of  the  votes  in  each  district,  to  attend  that 


13 

day  and  take  their  seats. 

Sec.  5.  The  Senate  shall,  on  the  Raid  first  Wednesday 
of  Jiinuary,  annuall}',  deteruune  who  are  elected  hy  a  ma- 
jority of  votes  to  he  Senators  in  each  district  5  and  in  case 
the  full  number  of  Senators  to  be  elected  troni  each  dis- 
trict shall  not  have  been  so  elected,  the  membets  of  the 
House  of  Representatives  and  such  Senators,  as  shall  have 
been  elected,  shall,  fiom  the  highest  numbers  of  the  per- 
sons voted  f(tr,  on  said  lists,  equal  to  twice  the  number  of 
Senators  deficient,  in  every  district,  if  there  be  so  many 
voted  for,  elect  by  j«"'int  ballot  the  nuniber  of  Senators 
required;  and  in  this  manner  all  vacanci-s  in  the  Senate 
shall  be  supplied,  as  soon  as  may  be,  after  such  vacancies 
happen. 

Sec.  6.  The  Senators  shall  be  twenty-five  years  of  ajre 
at  the  commencement  of  th^>  term,  for  which  they  are 
elected,  and  in  all  other  respects  their  qualificaiions  shall 
be  the  -ame,  as  those  of  the  Representatives. 

Sec.  7.  The  Senate  shall  h?lve  the  sole  power  to  try  all 
impeachments,  and  when  setting  f'.y  that  purpose  shall  be 
on  oath  or  afl[irruation,  and  no  person  shall  be  convicted 
without  the  concurrence  of  two  thirds  of  the  me  nd:)ers  pres- 
ent. Their  jud.^men',  however,  shall  not  ex t-^nd  farther 
than  to  removal  from  office,  and  disqualification  to  hold 
or  enjoy  any  ofiic*  of  honor,  tru?^t  or  profit  under  this  State. 
But  the  party,  vvhether  convicted  or  acquitted,  shall  never- 
theless he  liable  to  indictment,  trial,  judgment  and  pun- 
ishment accordin;^  to  law. 

Sec.  -8.  The  Senate  shall  choose  their  President,  Sec- 
retary and  other  officers. 

ARTICLE  IV.— Part  Third. 
L I^GI.LJi  Tl FE  FOWKR, 
>!teo.  1.  The  Leo;isIature  shall  convene  on  the  first 
Wednesday  of  Jnnuary  annually,  and  shall  have  full  pow- 
er to  make  and  establish  all  reasonable  laws  and  regulations 
for  the  defence  and  benefit  of  the  people  of  this  State,  not 
repu;;nant  to  this  Constitution,  nor  to  that  of  the  United 
States. 

Sec.  2.     Every  bill  or  resolution,  having  the  force  of  law, 
to  which  the  concuirence  of  both  Houses  may  be  neces- 
sary,  except  on  a  question  of  adjournment,    which  shall 
have  passed  both  Houses,  shall  be  presented  to  the  Gover- 
2 


14 

nor,  and  if  he  approve,  he  shall  si<rn  it ;  if  not,  he  shall-  m* 
turn  M  v\iiM  ijis  oLJ  rtiun^  to  the  tlousi^,  iri  \a  hiivii  i{  -.hall 
have  oriLrinatf-d,  which  sh.-li- enter  iht^  t>bjt^cti(»n8  aU  lar<!;e 
on  itsjf)iiriial-,and  prni>»ed  UureoimMei  \L  If,  niter euch 
recori'.iderad'jrr,  lu  o  tl\ird--$  of  that  House  sliflll  agn^e  to 
p-arfs  i',  it  yhtill  be  sent,  tou- ahor  uitli  the  ohjectiour,  to  the 
oth^r  Hou-«',  by  wiufh  i;  ^ivah  he  re<oi)si<(eie(i,  and,  ifap- 
proved  by  twf»  thirdi-  of  that  Hi'usr,  it  nhall  have  the  same 
•ff'rt,as  if  it  had  be^^n  sio;f^,e«i  by  the  Govornor  :  but  in  all 
sucii  case.«,  the  vot^s  of  b^'th  Hou.^«^s  shall  be  taken  by  yeas 
and  nay«?,  and  the  namt*s<  of  tiie  per.«on«,  voting  for  and 
a:jjuinst  the  hill  or  resolution,  shall  be  entered  on  the  jour- 
nals of  both  Houses  respectively.  If  the  lull  or  resolution 
shall  not  be  returnr'd  by  the  Governor  within  iive  days 
^Sundays  excepted)  after  it  shall  have  been  presented  to 
hirri,  it  shall  have  the  same  force  and  effect,  as  if  he  had 
eigned  it,  unless  the  Legislature  by  their  adjournment 
prevent  its  return,  in  which  case  it  shall  have  such  force 
and  effect,  unless  returned  within  three  days  after  their 
next  meetintj:. 

Sec.  3.  Each  House  shall  be  the  jud<;e  of  the  election* 
and  qualifications  of  its  ow^n  members,  and  a  majority , 
shall  constitute  a  quorum  to  do  business  5  but  a  sn>aller 
number  may  adjourn  from  day  to  day,  and  may  compel 
the  attendance  of  absent  inembers,  in  such  manner  and 
mider  such  penalties  as  each   House  shall  provide. 

8eo.  4.  Each  House  may  determine  the  rules  of  its  pro- 
•eedings,  punish  its  members  for  disorderly  behavior,  andj 
with  the  concurrence  of  two  thirds,  expel  a  member,  but 
not  a  second  time  for  the  same  cause. 

Seo.  5.  Each  House  shall  keep  a  journal,  and  from  time 
to  time  publish  its  proceeding's,  except  such  parts  as  in 
their  judgment  may  require  secrecy  ;  and  the  yeas  and 
nays  of  the  members  of  either  House  on  any  question,  shall, 
at  the  desire  of  one  filth  of  those  present,  be  entered  on 
the  journals. 

Seo.  6.  Each  House,  during  its  session,  may  punish  by 
imprisonment  any  person,  not  a  member,  for  disrespectful 
•r  disorderly  behaviour  in  its  presence, for  obstructing  any^ 
©fits  proceedings,  threatening,  assaulting  or  abusing  any  of 
ii^  members  for  anything  said,  done,  or  doing  in  either 


IS 

Ifouse  :     l^rnvidedf  that  no    imprljsonment  shall  extend  be- 
yond the  period  of  the  same  session. 

Sec.  7.  The  Senators  and  Representatives  shall  re*? 
ceivfr  such  connpensation,  as  shall  be  es^ahlish«d  by  law  5 
but  no  law  inrreasmp;  their  compensation  shall  take  effect 
during  the  existence  of  the  Legislature,  which  enacted  it. 
The  expenses  of  the  members  of  the  House  of  Repre- 
sentatives in  travelling  lo  the  Legislature,  and  returning; 
therefrom,  once  in  each  session  and  no  more,  shall  be  paid 
by  the  State  out  of  the  public  Treasury  to  every  menvher, 
xvho  shall  seasonably  attend,  in  the  judgment  uf  the 
House,  and  does  not  depart  therefrom  without  leave. 

Sec.  8.  The  Senators  and  Representatives  shall,  in  all 
cases  except  treason,  felony  or  breach  of  the  peace,  be  priv- 
ileged from  arrest  during  their  attendance  at,  going  to,  and, 
returning  from  each  session  of  the  Legislature,  and  no 
member  shall  be  liable  to  answer  for  any  thing  spoken  io 
debate  in  either  House,  in  any  court  or  place  elsewhere. 

Sec  9.  Bills,  orders  or  resolutions,  may  originate  in  ei- 
ther House,  and  may  be  altered,  amended  or  rejected  in 
thoi  other  ;  but  all  bills  for  rai-^inga  revenue  shall  originate 
!n  the  House  of  Representatives,  hut  the  ^enaie  may  pre* 
pose  arnendments  as  in  other  cases  :  Provided,^h^i  they  shall 
not,  under  color  of  amendment,  introduce  any  new  matter, 
tvhich  does  not  relate  to  raising  a  revenue. 

Sec.  10.  No  Senator  or  Repreeentative  shall,  during  the 
term  for  which  he  shall  have  been  elected,  be  appointed 
to  any  civil  office  of  profit  under  this  state,  which  shall 
^ave  been  created,  or  the  emoluments  of  which  increased 
during  such  term,  except  such  offices  as  may  be  filled  by 
elections  by  the  people  :  Provided,  that  this  prohibition 
Bhall  not  extend  to  the  members  of  the  first  Legislature. 

Sec.  1L  No  membpr  ofConofress,  nor  person  holding 
any  office  under  the  United  States,  (post  officers  excepted) 
nor  ofKice  of  profit  under  this  state,  Justices  of  the  Peace  , 
Notaries  Public,  Coroners  and  ofBcers  of  the  miliiia  except- 
ed, shall  have  a  seat  in  either  House  during  his  being  such 
member  of  Conc!:ress,  or  his  continuing  in  such  office. 

Sec  12.  Neither  House  shall  during  the  session,  with- 
out the  consent  of  the  other,adjournf  >r  more  than  two  day§, 
nor  to  any  other  place  than  that  in  which  the  Houses  shaS 
be  sitting. 


16 

ARTICLE  v.— Part  First. 
EXECUTIVE  POWER. 

Sec.  1.  The  supreme  executive  power  of  this  State 
shall  be  vested  in  a  Governor. 

Sec.  2.  The  Cxovernor  shall  be  elected  by  the  qualified 
electoi's,  and  yhall  hold  his  office  one  yqar  from  the  iirst 
Wednesday  of  January  in  each  year. 

Seo.  3.  The  meetinj^s  for  election  of  Governor  shall  be 
notified,  held  and  re{>ulaled,  and  votes  shall  be  received, 
sorted,  counted,  declared  and  recorded,  in  the  same  manner 
as  those  for  Senators  and  Representatives.  They  shall  bo 
sealed  and  returned  into  the  Secretary's  office  in  the  same 
inannei,  and  at  the  same  time,  as  those  fur  Senators.  And 
the  Secretary  of  State  for  the  time  being  shall,  on  the  first 
Wednesday  of  January,  then  next,  lay  the  lists  before  the 
Senate  and  House  of  Representatives  to  be  by  tlvem  exam* 
ined,  and,  in  case  of  a  choice  b}^  a  majority  of  all  the  votes 
returned,  lliey  shall  declare  and  publish  the  same.  But,  if 
n6  person  shall  have  a  majority  of  votes,  the  House  of  Rep- 
resentatives shall,  by  l)aliot,  from  the  persons  liaving  the 
four  hi<;hest  numbers  of  votes  on  the  listS;  if  ^o  many  there 
be.  elect  t'.vc  pciirou?;  iLr.d  make  return  of  their  names  to 
the  Senate,  of  whom' the  Senate  shall,  by,  ballot,  elect  one, 
who  shall  be  declared  the  Governor. 

Sec.  4.  The  Governor  shall,  at  the  commencement  of 
his  term,  be  not  kv-s  than  thirty  years  of  age  :  a  natural 
born  citizen  of  the  United  States,  have  been  five  years, 
or  from  tlie  adoption  of  this  Constitution,  a  resident  of  the 
State;  and  at  the  time  of  his  election  and  during  the  term 
fur  which  he  is  elected,  be  a  resident  of  said  State. 

Sec.  5.  No  person  holding  any  office  or  place  under  the 
United  State?,  this  Stale,  or  any  other  power,  shall  ex- 
ercise the  oflice  of  Governor. 

Sec.  6.  The  Governor  shall,  at  stated  times,  receive  for 
his  services  a  compensation,  wliich  shall  not  be  increased 
or  diminished    during  his  continuance  in  office. 

Sec.  7.  He  shall  be  commander  in  chief  of  the  army 
and  navy  of  the  State,  and  of  the  militia,  except  when 
called  into  the  actual  service  of  the  United  States  5  but 
he  shall  not  march  nor  convey  any  of  the  citizens  out  of 
the  State  without  their  consent,  or  that  of  the  Legislature, 
unless   it   shall  become  necessary,    in   order  to  march  or 


IT 

transport  them  from  one  part  of  the  State  to  another  fot 
the  detf-nce  thereof. 

Sec.  8.  He  shall  nominate,  and,  with  the  advice  and 
consent  of  the  Council,  appoint  all  judicial  officers,  the  At- 
torney General,  the  Sheriffs,  Coroners,  Registers  of  Prohate, 
and  Notaries^  Public  ;  and  he  shall  also  nominate,  and  wilk 
the  advice  and  consent  of  the  Council,  appoint  all  o^her 
civil  and  military  officers,  v^ho^e  appointment  is  not  by 
this  Constitution,  or  shall  not  hy  lav^  be  otherwise  provid- 
ed for;  and  every  such  nomination  shall  be  made  seven 
days,  at  least,  prior  to  audi  appointment. 

hEG.  9.  He  shall  tWm  time  to  time  give  the  Legislature 
information  of  the  condition  of  the  State,  and  recommend 
to  their  conbideralion  such  measures,  as  he  may  judge 
expedient. 

Sec  10.  He  may  require  information  from  any  military 
officer,  or  any  officer  in  the  executive  department,  upon 
any  subject  relating  to  the  duties  of  their  respective  offices. 

Sec.  11.  He  shall  have  power,  with  the  advice  and 
consent  of  the  Council,  to  remit,after  conviction,  all  forfeit- 
ures and  penalties,  and  to  grant  reprieves  and  pardons, 
except  in  cases  of  impeachment. 

Sec.  12.  He  shall  take  care  that  the  laws  be  faithfully 
executed. 

Sec.  13.  He  may,  on  extraordinary  occasions,  convene 
the  Lei^islature ;  and  in  case  of  disaci:reements  between 
the  two  Houses  with  respect  to  the  time  of  adjournment, 
adjourn  them  to  such  time,  as  he  shall  think  proper,  not 
beyond  the  day  of  the  next  annual  meeting  5  and  if,  since 
the  last  adjournment,  the  place  where  the  Leginlature 
were  next  to  c  onvene  shall  nave  heo^^me  dan^i^erous  from 
an  enemy  or  contagious  sickness,  may  direct  the  session  to 
be  held  at  some  other  convenient  place  within  the  State. 

Sec  14.  Whenever  the  office  of  Governor  shall  be- 
come vacant  by  death,  resignation,  removal  from  office  or 
otherwise,  the  President  of  the  Senate  ^hall  exercise  the 
•ffice  of  Governor  until  another  Governor  shall  he  duly 
qualified  ;  and  in  case  of  the  death,  resignation,  removal 
from  office  or  other  disqualification  of  the  President  of  the 
Senate,  so  exercising  the  office  of  Gov^^rnor,  the  Speaker 
«af  the  House  of  Representatives  shall  exercise  the  office, 
until  a  President   of  the  Senate   shall  have  been  chosen ; 


18 

and  when  the  office  of  Governor,  President  of  the  Seiiaioj 
and  Speaker  of  the  House  shall  b«*corne  vacant,  in  the  re- 
cess of  tlit^  St-nate,  th^  person,  aclinii;  as  Secretary  of  Slate 
for  the  time  b<iin<^,  shall  by  proclamation  convene  the  Sen- 
ate, that  a  President  may  be  cJiosen  to  exercise  the  office 
of  Governor.  And  whenever  either  the  President  of  the 
Senate,  or  Speaker  of  the  House  shall  so  exeici.-<e  ^aid  office, 
he  shall  receive  only  the  compensation  of  Governor,  but  his 
duties  as  Prosidnnt  or  Speak<'r  shall  be  suspended  ;  and  the 
Senate  or  House,  sliall  fill  tlie  vacancy,  until  his  duties  as 
Governor  shall  cease. 

ARTICLE  v.— Part  Second. 
COUXCiL. 

Sec.  1.  There  shall  be  a  Council,  to  consist  of  seven 
persons,  citizens  of  the  United  States,  and  residents  of  this 
Slate,  to  advise  the  Governor  in  the  executive  part  of  gov* 
ernment,  \vhom  the  Governor  sliall  have  full  power,  ai  his 
dis<u'etion,  to  assemble;  and  he,  with  the  Counsellors,  or 
a  majority  of  them,  may  from  time  to  time,  hold  and  keep  a 
Council,  for  ordering  and  directing  the  affairs  of  State  ac- 
cording to  law. 

Sec.  2.  The  Counsellors  shall  be  t^liosen  annually,  on 
the  firstWednesday  of  January,  by  joint  ballot  of  the  Sen- 
ators and"  Representatives  in  Convention;  and  vacancies; 
which  shall  afierwardn  happen,  shall  he  filled  in  the  same 
manner;  but  notmore  than  one  Counsellor  shall  be  elected 
from  any  district,  jHcscribed  for  the  election  ofSenators^ 
and  they  shall  be  privileged  from  arrest  in  the  same  man- 
ner, as  Senators  and  Representatives. 

Sec.  3.  The  resolutions  and  advice  of  Council  shall  be 
recorded  in  a  refri-ster,  and  signed  by  the  members  aici'ce- 
ing  thereto,  which  may  be  called  for  by  either  House  of  iho 
Legislature;  a:id  any  Counsellor  may  enler  his  dissent  to  the 
rosoluuon  of  the  majority. 

SsG.  4.  No  Member  of  Congress,  or  of  the  Lefrislature 
of  this  State,  nor  any  person  holding  any  office  under  the 
United  States,  (post  officers  excepted)  nor  any  civil  officers 
under  tliis  Stale,  (Justices  of  the  Peace  and  Notaries  Public 
excepted)  ?hall  be  Counsellors.  And  no  Counsellor  shall  bo 
appointed  to  any  office  during  the  time,  for  which  he  shall 
have  been  elected- 


n 

ARTICLE  V— Part  Third. 
SECIWTARY. 

Sec.  1.  The  Secretary  of' State  shall  he  chosen  annual* 
Ij,  at  the  first  session  of  the  Legislature,  hy  jf'inl  ballot  of 
the  Senators  and  Representatives  in  Convention. 

Sec  2.  The  records  of  the  State  ^r^hull  he  kept  in  the 
office  of  the  Secretary,  who  may  appoint  his  deputies,  tor 
whose  conduct  he  shall  be  accountable. 

Sec.  3.  lie  shall  attend  the  Governor  and  Council,  Sen- 
ate and  House  o{  Representatives,  in  person  or  by  his 
deputies,  as  they  shall  respectively  require. 

Sec  4.  He  shall  carefully  keep  and  preserve  the  rec- 
ords of  all  the  official  acts  and  proceedings  of  the  Governor 
and  Council,  Senate  and  House  of  Representatives,  and, 
when  required,  lay  the  same  before  either  branch  of  the 
Legislature,  and  perform  such  other  dntiesas  are  enjoined 
by  this  Consiitution,  or  shrill  be  required  by  law. 
ARTICLF  v.— Part  Fourth. 
THEASURKR. 

Sec  L  The  Treasurer  shall  be  chosen  annually,  at  the 
first  session  of  the  Legislature,  by  joint  halloi  of  the  vSena^ 
tors,  and  Representatives  in  Convention,  but  shall  not  be 
eligible  more  than  five  3  ears  suecessively. 

Sec  2.  The  Treasurer  shall,  before  entering  on  the 
duties  of  his  office,  give  bond  to  the  State  with  sureties,  to 
the  satisfaction  of  the  Legislature,  for  the  faithful  discharge 
of  his  trust. 

Sec  3.  The  Treasurer  shall  not,  during  his  continu- 
ance in  office,  engacre  in  any  business  of  trade  oicommercOj 
or  as  a  broker,  nor  as  an  agent  or  factor  for  any  merchant 
or  trader. 

Sec  4.  No  money  shall  be  drawn  from  the  Treasury, 
but  by  warrant  from  the  Governor  and  Council,  and  in 
consequence  of  appropriations  made  by  law ;  and  a  regular 
statement  and  account  of  the  receipts  and  expenditures  of 
all  public  money,  shall  be  published  at  the  commencement 
of  the  annual  session  of  the  Legislature. 
ARTICLE  Vr. 
JUDICIAL  POVvER. 

Sec  L  The  Judicial  power  of  this  state  shall  be  vested 
a  a  Supreme  Judicial  Court,  and  such  other  courts  as  the 
Legislature  shall  from  time  to  time  establish. 


2« 

"Sbc.  S.  The  Justifies  of  the  Supreme  Judicial  Court 
ahall,  at  stated  times,  receive  a  compensation,  which  shall 
not  be  diminished  during  their  continuance  in  office,  but 
they  shall  receive  no  other  fee  or  reward. 

Sec.  3.  They  shall  be  obliged  to  give  their  opinion  upon 
important  qii<^stions  of  law,  and  upon  solenm  occasions, 
whf^n  required  by  the  Governor,  Council,  Senate  or  House 
of  Repre.-enlativeg. 

iSec.  4.  All  Judical  officers,  except  Justices  of  the 
Peace,  shall  hold  th^-ir  offices  during  good  behavior,  but  not 
beyond  the  age  of  seventy  yearn. 

Sec  5.  Justices  of  the  Peace  and  Notaries  Public, 
shall  hold  tht'ir  offices  during  seven  years,  if  they  so  long 
behave  themselves  well,  at  the  expiration  of  which  term, 
they  may  be  rea|>pointed  or  others  appointed,  as  the  public 
interest  may  require. 

Sec  6.  lire  Justices  of  the  Supreme  Judicial  Court 
shall  hold  no  office  under  the  United  vStates,  n<»r  ari}^  state, 
nor  any  other  office  under  this  slate,  except  that  of  Justice 
df the  Peace. 

ARTICLE  VW. 
MILITARY. 

Sec  1.  The  captains  and  subalterns  of  the  militiii 
shall  be  elected  by  the  written  votes  of  the  members  of 
their  respective  companies.  The  field  officers  of  regiments 
by  the  viritten  votes  of  the  captains  and  subalterns  of  their 
respective  n-gimeiUs.  The  Brigadier  Generals  in  like 
manner,  by  the  field  oflicers  of  their  respective  brigades. 

Sec.  2.  The  Legislature  shall,  by  law,  direct  the  man- 
ner of  notifying  the  elector*-,  conducting  the  elections,  and 
making  the  returns  to  the  G.'»vernor  of  the  officers  elected  ; 
and,  if  the  electors  shall  neglect  or  refuse  to  make  such 
©lections,  after  being  duly  notified  according  to  la w^,  the 
€rovernor  shall  appoint   sui talkie  persons  to  fill  such  offices. 

Sec  3.  The  Major  Gejierals  shall  be  elected  by  the 
Senate  and  House  of  Representatives,  each  having  a  nega- 
tive on  the  other.  The  Adjutant  General  and  Quarter- 
master General  shall  be  appointed  by  the  Governor  and 
Council  ;  but  the  Adjutant  General  shall  perr(»rm  the  duties 
©f  Quarter-master  General,  until  otherwise  directed  by  law\ 
The  Major  Generals  and  Brigadier  Generals,  and  the  com- 
manding officers  of  regiments  and  battalions  shall  appoml 


21 

their  respective  staff  ollicors  ;  and  all  military  officers  shall 
be  commissioned  by  the  Governor. 

8ec.  4.  The  militia,  as  divided  into  divisions,  brigades, 
re^^iments,  battalions  and  companies, pursuant  to  the  laws 
now  in  force,  shall  remain  so  organized,  until  the  same 
shall  be  altered  by  the  l^egislature. 

Sec.  5.  Persons  of  the  denominations  of  Quakers  and 
Siiakers,  Justices  of  the  Supreme  Judicial  Court  and  Minis- 
ters of  the  Gospel  may  be  exempted  from  military  duty, 
but  no  other  person  of  the  age  of  eighteen  and  under  the 
age  of  fony-five  years,  excepting  officers  of  the  milin'a,  vvho 
have  been  honorably  discharged^  shall  be  so  exempted, 
unless  he  shall  pay  an  equiwJent  to  be  fixed  by  law. 
ARTICLE  VIII, 
LiTKlUTURE, 

A  general  diffusion  of  the  advantages  of  education  being 
essential  to  the  preservaiion  of  the  rights  and  liberti«^s  of 
the  people  ;  to  promote  this  important  object,  the  Legisla- 
ture are  aulhori>3ed,  audit  shall  be  their  duty  to  require,  the 
several  towns  to  make  suitable  provision,  at  their  own  ex- 
panse, for  the  support  and  maintenance  of  public  schools  ^ 
and  it  sliall  furtlier  be  their  duty  to  encourage  and  suit- 
ably endow,  from  ti^ne  to  time,  as  the  circumstances  of 
the  people  may  authorise,  all  academies,  colleges  and 
seminaries  of  learning  within  the  State  :  Provided^  That  no 
donati(m,  grant  or  endowment  shall  at  any  time  be  made 
by  the  Legislature,  to  any  Literary  Listitution  now  estab- 
lished, or  which  may  hereafter  be  established,  unless,  at  the 
time  of  making  such  endowment,  the  Legislature  of  the 
State  shall  have  the  right  to  grant  ariy  further  powers  to, 
alter,  limit  or  restrain  any  of  the  powers  vested  in,  any 
such  literary  institution,  as  shall  be  judged  necessary  to 
prom.ote  the  best  interests  thereof 
ARTICLE  IX. 
GENERAL  PROVISIONS. 

Sec.  1.  Every  person  elected  or  appointed  to  either 
of  the  places  or  offices  provid<*d  in  this  Constitution,  and 
every  person  elected,  appointed,  or  commissioned  to  any 
Judicial,  Executive,  Military,  or  other  office  under  this 
State,  shall,  before  he  enter  on  the  discharge  of  the  duties^  of 
his  place  or  office,  take  and  subscribe  the  following  oath 
or  affiu'mation :    "  I,  do  s\vear,  that  I 


«2 

will  support  the  Constitution  of  the  United  S^tafes  and 
•f  this  State,  so  long  as  I  shall  continue  a  ciiizt^n  thereof, 
So  help  me  God." 

"  I  do  swear,  that  I  will  faithfully  discharge, 

to  the  best  of  my  abiliti'^s,  the  duties  incumbent  on  me  at 
according  to  the  Constitution  arid  the  laws 
€>f  the  State.— So  help  me  God  :"  Provided,  That  an  affir- 
mation in  the  above  forms  may  be  substituted,  when  the 
person  shall  be  conscienciously  scrupulous  of  taking  and 
subscribing  an  oath. 

The  oaths  or  affirmations  shall  be  taken  and  subscribed 
by  the  Governor  and  Counsellors  betbre  she  presiding  offi- 
cer of  the  Senate,  in  the  prt\spnce  of  both  Houses  of  the  Le- 
gi3lature,and  by  the  Senators  and  Representatives  before  the 
Governor  and  Council,  and  by  the  residue  of  said  officers 
before  such  persons  as  shall  be  prescribed  by  the  Legisla- 
ture ;  and  whenever  the  Governor  or  any  Counsellor  shall 
not  be  able  to  attend  during  the  session  of  the  Legislature 
to  take  and  subscribe  said  oaths  or  affirmations,  such  oaths 
or  affirmations  may  be  taken  and  subscribed  in  the  recess 
of  the  Legislature  before  any  Justice  of  the  Supreme  Ju- 
dicial Court :  Provided,  that  the  Senators  and  Representa- 
tivesjfirst  elected  under  this  Constitution,  shall  take  and  sub- 
scribe such  oaths  or  affirmations  before  the  President  of 
the  Convention. 

Sec  2.  No  person  holding  the  office  of  Justice  of  the 
Supreme  Judicial  Court,  or  of  any  inferior  Court,  Attorney 
General,  County  Attorney,  Treasurer  of  the  State,  Adjutant 
General,  Judge  of  Probate,  Register  of  Probate,  Register 
of  Deeds,  Sheriffs  or  their  deputies,  Clerks  of  the  Judicial 
Courts,  shall  be  a  member  of  the  Legislature  ;  and  any 
person  holding  either  of  the  foregoing  offices,  elected  to, 
and  accepting  a  seat  in  the  Congress  of  the  United  States, 
shall  thereby  vacate  said  office  ;  and  no  person  shall  be 
eapable  of  holding  or  exercising,  at  the  same  time,  wit.hia 
this  State  more  than  one  of  the  offices  before  mentioned. 

Sec.  3.  All  Commissions  shall  be  in  the  name  of  the 
State,  signed  by  the  Governor,  attested  by  the  Secretary 
or  his  deputy,  and  have  the  seal  of  the  State  thereto  affixed. 

Sec.  4.  And  in  case  the  elections,  required  by  this  Con- 
stitution on  the  iirst  Wednesday  of  January  annually,  by 
ihe  two  HoRses  of  the  Legislature,  shall  Hot  be  completed 


23 

•n  tha^  (lay,  tli<»  ?a»ne  nmy  he  adjourned  from  day  to  day^ 
until  CO  >pte'««d,  m  the  tolioiviug  order  :  the  vacancies  in 
thrt  S'uiaie  .-aati  first  be  filled  ;  the  Governor  shall  then  be 
el^<:tt*u,  it'  iljere  h^  no  chcice  by  the  people  5  and  iifter- 
waricj  the  two  Hons«  s  shall  elect  the  Council. 

Sec-  5.  Kvejy  p'.n-on  h.)Iding  any  civil  office  under 
this  iSiat(»,  may  be  removed  by  impeachment,  for  misde- 
meanor inotfi'-ej  aiid  every  person  ludding  any  otTice.  may 
be  removed  l»y  the  Governor  with  the  advice  of  the  Coun- 
cil, on  the  addref^s  of  boih  branches  of  the  L^'gislature. 
Biit  b«ifore  such  add;  ess  shall  pass  either  Hou^-e,  the  caiises 
of  removal  shall  be  staged  aid  entered  on  the  journal  of 
the  House  in  which  it  origmated,  and  a  copy  thereof  served 
t)n  the  person  in  office,  that  he  may  be  admitted  to  a  hear-  - 
inji;  in  his  defence. 

Sec.  6.  The  tenure  of  all  offices,  which  are  not  or  shall 
not  be  otherwise  provided  for,  shall  be  during  the  pleasure 
•fthe  Governor  and  Council. 

Sec  7.  While  the  public  expenses  shall  be  assessed  oift 
polls  and  estates,  a  general  valuation  shall  be  taken  at  least 
once  in  ten  years. 

Sec.  8.  All  faxes  upon  real  estate,  assessed  by  author- 
ity of  this  State,  shall  be  apportioned  and  assessed  equally, 
according  to  the  just  value  thereof. 
ARTICLE  X. 
SCHKUULt:. 
€>%G,  1.  The  first  Legislature  shall  meet  on  the  last 
Wednesday  in  May  next.  The  elections  on  the  second 
Monday  in  September  annually  shall  not  commence  un  il 
the  year  one  thousand  eight  hundred  and  twenty  one,  and 
in  the  meantime  the  election  tor  Governor,  Sent-tors  and 
Representatives  shall  be  on  the  first  Monday  in  April,  in 
the  3'ear  of  our  Lord  one  thousand  eight  hundred  and 
twenty,  and  at  this  election,  the  same  proceedings  shall 
be  had  as  are  required  at  the  elections,  provided  for  in  this 
Cou;  titution  on  the  second  Monday  in  September  annually, 
and  the  lists  of  the  votes  for  the  Governor  and  Senators 
uhall  be  transmitted,  by  the  town  and  plantation  clerks  re- 
■pt*<riive[y,  to  the  Secretary  of  State  pro  tempore,  seyenieen 
days  at  least  before  the  last  Wednesday  in  May  next,  and 
the  President  of  the  Convention  shall,  in  presence  of  the 
^^cvai^xy  of  Si^ie  pro  tempore, o\)en  and  examine  the  attested 


24 

copies  of  said  lists  so  returned  for  Senators,  and  ahall  have 
all  the  poxV(^rs,  and  be  subject  to  all  the  dutipy,  in  apcer- 
tainin:^,  niitifying;,  and  summoning  the  Senators,  who  ap- 
pear \o  be  elected,  as^  the  Governor  and  Council  havo,  and 
are  subject  to,  by  this  Constitution  :  Provided^  he  shall  no- 
tify said  Senators  ibun ♦3(-n  day-  at  least  before  the  last 
Wednesday  in  May,  and  vacanties  siiall  be  ascertained  and 
filled  in  the  manner  herein  provided  5  and  the  Senators  to 
be  elected  on  the  said  tirat  Monday  of  April,  shall  be  ap- 
portioned as  follows  : 

The  County  of  York  shall  elect  three. 

The  County  of  Cumberland  shall  elect  three. 

The  County  of  Lincoln  sliall  elt-ct  three. 

The  County  ot'  [Jancock  ^hall  elect  two. 

Tlie  Cuuniy  of  vVa?!hin<^ton  shall  elect  one. 

Tlie  County  of  Kenufbec  shall  elect  three. 

The  County  of  Oxford  shall  eh-ct  two. 

The  County  of  Somerset  shall  elect  two. 

The  County  of  IVnobscnt  shiill  elect  one. 
And  the  members  of  the  House  of  Representatives  shall  be 
elected,  ascertained,  and  returned  in  the  same  manner  as 
herein  provided  at  elections  on  the  second  Monday  of  Sep- 
teuiber,  and  the  first  House  of  Representatives  shall  consist 
ol  the  Ibllowiijg  number,  to  be  elected  as  follows  : 

COUNTY  OF  FOA^if.—The  towns  of  York  and  Wells 
niay  each  elect  two  representatives  5  and  each  of  the  re* 
maining  towns  may  elect  one. 

COUNTY  OF  CUMBERLAND.— The  town  of  Port- 
land may  elect  three  representative^  5  North-Yarmouth  twoj 
Brunswick  two;  Gorharn,  tw^o;  Freeport  and  Pownal^  two 5 
Raymond  and  OtisiieM,  one  5  Brid^tof),  Baldwin  and  Har- 
rison, one  5  Poland  and  Danville,  one ;  and  each  remaining 
tow-n  one. 

COUNTY  OF  LINCOLN.— The  towns  of  George- 
town and  Phipsburg,  may  elec*  one  representaiive ;  Lew- 
iston  and  Wales,  one ;  St.  George,  Cushing  and  Friend- 
ship, one ;  Hope  and  Appleton  Ridge,  one ;  Jf^fferson, 
Putnam  and  Patricktown  plantation,  one;  Alna  and  White- 
iield,  on..;  JVloniviile,  Palermo,  and  Mnntvi'le  plantation^ 
one;  Woolwich  and  Dresden,  one;  and  each  remaining 
town  one. 

COUNTY  OF  HANCOCK,— The  town  of  Bucksport 


25 

may  elect  one  represent ative ;  Deer  Island  one ;  Castine 
and  Brooksville,  one;  Orland  and  Penobscot,  one;  Mount 
Desert  and  Eden,  one ;  Vinalhaven  and  I&leboroiigh,  one  ; 
Sedgwick  and  Bluehill  one;  Gouldsborough,  Sullivan  and 
plantations  No.  8  and  9  north  of  Sullivan,  one ;  Surry, 
Ellsworth,  Trenton  and  plantation  of  Maria  ville,  one;  Lin- 
colnville,  Searsmont  and  Belmont,  one;  Belfast  and  North- 
port,  one ;  Prospect  and  Swanville,  one ;  Frankfort  and 
Monroe,  one ;  Knox,  Brooks,  Jackson  and  Thorndike,  one. 

COUNTY  OF  IVASHINGTON.— 'The  iowm  of  Steu- 
ben, Cherryiield  and  Harrington,  may  elect  one  represen- 
tative; Addison,  Columbia  and  Jonesborough,  one  ;  Machi- 
as  one;  Lubec,  Dennj^sville,  plantations  No.  9,  No.  10,  No. 
11,  No.  12,  one;  Eastport  one;  Perry,  Robinston,  Calais^ 
plantations  No.  3,  No.  6,  No.  7,  No.  15,  and  N«.  16,  one. 

COUNTY  OF  KENNEBEC— The  towns  of  Bel- 
grade and  Dearborn  may  elect  one  representative;  Ches- 
terville,  Vienna  and  Rome,  one ;  Wayne  and  Fayette,  one ; 
Temple  and  Wilton,  one  ;  Winslow  and  China,  one  ;  Fair- 
fax and  Freedom,  one  ;  Unity,  Joy  and  25  mile  pond  plan- 
tation, one;  Harlem  and  Malta,  one  ;  and  each  remain- 
ing tovv'n  one. 

COUNTY  OF  OXFORD.— The  towns  of  Dixtield, 
Mexico,  Weld  and  plantations  Nos.  I  and  4,  may  elect  one 
representative  ;  Jay  and  Hartford,  one  ;  Livermore  one  ; 
Rumf)rd;  East  Andoverand  plantations  Nos.  7  and  8,  one  ; 
Turner  one  ;  Woodstock,  Paris  and  Greenwood,  one  ;  He- 
bnm  and  Norway,  one  ;  Gilead,  Bethel,  Newry,  Albany 
and  Howard's  gore,  one;  Porter,  Hiram  and  Brownfield, 
one  ;  Waferford,  Sweden  and  Lovell,  one  ;  Denmark,  Frye- 
burg  and  Fryeburg  addition,  one  ;  Buckfield  and  Sumner, 
one. 

COUNTY  OF  SOMERSET.— The  town  of  Fairfield 
may  elect  one  representative  ;  Norridgwock  and  Bloom.- 
fiekl,  one  ;  Starks  and  Mercer,  one  ;  Industry,  Strong  and 
New-Vineyardr  one  ;  Avon,  Phillips,  Freeman  and  King- 
field,  one;  Anson,  New-Portland,  Embden,  and  plantation 
No.  1,  one  ;  Canaan,  Warsaw,  Palmyra,  St.  Albans  and  Co- 
rinna,  one;  Madison,  Solon,  Bingham,  Moscow  and  North- 
hill,  one  ;  Cornville,  Athens,  Harmony,  Ripley  and  War- 
renstown,  one. 

COUNTY  OF  PENOBSCOT. --The  towns  of  Hamp- 
3 


26 

den  and  Newburg  may  elect  one  representative ;  Orring- 
ton,  Brewer,  and  Eddington  and  plantations  adjacent  on 
the  east  side  of  Penobscot  river,  one  ;  Bangor,  Orono  and 
Sunkhaze  plantation,  one  ;  Dixmont,  Newport,  Carmel, 
Hermon,  Stetson,  and  plantation  No.  4  in  the  6th  range, 
one  ;  Levant,  Corinth,  Exeter,  New-Charlestown,  Blakes- 
burgh,  plantation  No.  1  in  3d  range,  and  plantation  No.  1 
in  4th  range,  one  ;  Dexter,  Garland,  Guilford,  Sangerville, 
and  plantation  No.  3  in  6th  range,  one  ;  Atkinson,  Sebec, 
Foxcroft,  Brownville,  Williamsburgh,  plantation  No.  1  in 
7th  range,  and   plantation  No.  3  in  7th  range,  one. 

And  the  Secretary  of  State  p'o  tempore  shall  have  the 
same  powers,  and  be  subject  to  the  same  duties,  in  rela- 
tion to  the  votes  for  Governor,  as  the  Secretary  of  State 
has,  and  is  subject  to,  by  tijis  Constitution  :  and  the  elec- 
tion of  Governor  shall,  on  the  said  last  Wednesday  in 
May,  be  determined  and  declared,  in  the  same  manner,  as 
other  elections  of  Governor  are  by  this  Constitution  ;  and 
in  case  of  vacancy  in  said  office,  the  President  of  the  Sen- 
ate, and  Speaker  of  the  House  of  Representatives,  shall 
exercise  the  office  as  herein  otherwise  provided,  and  the 
Counsellors,  Secretary  and  Treasurer,  shall  also  be  elected 
on  said  day,  and  have  the  same  powers,  and  be  subject  to 
the  same  duties,  as  is  provided  in  this  Constitution  ;  and  in 
«ase  of  the  death  or  other  disqualification  of  the  President 
of  this  Convention,  or  of  the  Secretary  of  State  pro  tem- 
pore^ before  the  election  and  qualification  of  the  Governor 
or  Secretary  of  State  under  this  Constitution,  the  persons 
to  be  designated  by  this  Convention  at  their  session  in  Jan- 
wary  next,  shall  have  all  the  powers  and  perform  all  the 
duties,  which  the  President  of  this  Convention,  or  the  Sec- 
retary pro  tempore,  to  be  by  them  appointed,  shall  have 
and  perform. 

Sec  2.  The  period  for  which  the  Governor,  Senators 
and  Representatives,  Counsellors,  Secretary  and  Treasu- 
rer, first  elected  or  appointed,  are  to  serve  in  their  respec- 
tive offices  and  places,  shall  commence  on  the  last  Wed- 
nesday in  May,  in  the  year  of  our  Lord  one  thousand  eight 
hundred  and  twenty,  and  continue  until  the  first  Wednes- 
day of  January,  in  the  year  of  our  Lord  one  thousand  eight 
hundred  and  twenty  two. 

Sec  3.     All  laws  now  in  force  in  this  state,  and  not  re- 


27 

pugnant  to  this  Constitution,  shall  remain^  and  be  in  force, 
until  altered  or  repealed  by  the  Legislature,  or  shall  expire 
by  tlieir  own  limitation. 

Sec.  4.  The  Legislature,  whenever  two  thirds  of  both 
bouses  shall  deem  it  necessary,  may  pi  )pose  amendments 
to  this  Constitution  ;  and  when  any  amendmeift  shall  be 
so  agreed  upon,  a  resolution  shall  be  passed  and  sent  to  the 
selectmen  of  the  several  towns,and  the  assessors  of  the  sev- 
eral plantations,  empovi^ering  and  directing  them  to  notify 
the  inhabitants  of  their  respective  towns  and  plantations, 
in  the  manner  prescribed  by  law,  at  their  next  annual 
meetings  in  the  inonth  of  September,  to  give  in  their  votes 
on  the  question,  whether  such  amendment  shall  be  made  ; 
and  if  it  shall  appear  that  a  majority  of  the  inhabitants 
voting  on  the  question  are  in  favor  of  such  amendment,  it 
shall  become  a  part  of  this  Constitution. 

Sec.  5.  All  officers  provided  t"or  in  the  sixth  section  ^-f 
tin  act  of  the  Commonwealth  of  rrlassacLuseits,  passed  on 
tlie  nineteenth  day  of  June,  in  the  year  of  our  Lord  one 
tliousand  eight  hundred  and  nineteen,  entitled  "  An  act  re- 
lating to  the  Separation  of  the  District  of  Maine  from  Mas- 
sachusetts Proper,  and  forming  the  same  into  a  separate  and 
In<]ej>en'lent  State,"  shall  continue  in  office  as  therein  pro* 
vided  ;  and  the  following  provisions  of  said  act  shall  be  a 
part  of  this  Constitution,  subject  however  to  be  modified  or 
annulled  as  therein  is  prescribed,  and  not  otherwise,  to  >vit : 

Sec.  1.  Whereas  it  has  been  represented  to  this  Legislature, tliat  a 
majority  of  (he  people  of  (he  Uistrict  of  Maine  are  desirous  of  es- 
tablishing a  separate  and  Independent  Government  within  said  Dis- 
trict :  Therefore, 

Be  it  enacted  by  the  Senate  and  House  of  Representatives  inGen- 
eral  Court  assembled^  and  by  the  authority  of  the  same^  That  the 
consent  of  this  Commonwealth  be,  and  the  same  is  hereby  given, 
that  the  Dislrict  of  Maine  may  be  formed  and  erected  into  a  sepa* 
rale  and  Independent  State,  if  the  people  of  the  said  District  sliall 
in  the  manner,  and  by  the  majority  hereinafter  mentioned,  express 
their  consent  and  agreement  thereto,  upon  the  following  terms  and 
conditions  :  And,  pro\jdcd  the  Congress  of  the  United  States  shall 
gi\e  its  conf^ent  thereto,  before  the  fourth  day  of  March  next: 
'which  terras  and   conditions  are  as  follows,  viz. 

First,  All  the  lands  and  buildmgs  belonging  to  the  Common- 
wealth, within  Massachusetts  Proper,  shall  coritinue  to  belong  to  said 
Commonwealth,  and  all  the  lands  belonging  to  the  Commonwealth, 
ivithin  the  District  of  Maine,  shall  belong,  the  one  half  thereof  to 
the  said  Commonwealth,  and  the  other  half  thereof,  to  the  State, 


28 

t© be  formed  within  the  said  District,  (o  be  divided  as  is  hereinafter 
mentioned  ;  and  the  lands  within  the  said  Dietrict,  which  shall 
belong  to  the  said  Commonwealth,  shall  be  free  from  taxation,  while 
the  title  (o  the  said  lands  remains  in  the  Commonwealth  ;  and  the 
rights  of  the  Commonwealth  to  their  lands,  within  said  District,  and 
the  remedies  for  the  recovery  thereof,  sliail  continue  the  same,  within 
the  proposed  State,  and  in  tlie  Courts  thereof,  as  they  now  are  within 
the  said  Commonwealth,  and  in  the  Courts  thereof;  for  which  pur- 
poses,and  for  the  maintenance  of  its  ri£;hts,  and  recovery  of  its  land.s, 
tlie  said  Commonwealth  shall  be  entitled  to  all  other  proper  and  legal 
remedies,  and  may  appear  ii»  the  Courts  of  the  proposed  State  and 
in  tlie  Courts  of  the  United  Stales,  holden  therein  ;  and  all  rights 
of  action  for,  or  entry  into  lands,  and  of  actions  upon  bonds,  for  the 
breach  of  the  performance  of  the  condition  of  settling  duties,  so 
called,  which  have  accrued,  or  may  accrue,  shall  remain  in  this  Com- 
monwealth, to  be  enforced,  couiinuted,  released,  or  otherwise  dis- 
posed of,  in  such  manner  as  this  Commonwealth  may  hereafter  de- 
termine :  Provided  hoictvtr^  That  whatever  this  Commonwealth  may 
hereafter  receive  or  obtain  on  account  thereof,  if  any  thing,  shall, 
after  deducting  all  reasonal)Ie  charges  relating  thereto,  be  divided, 
©ne  Tfiir\l  p^rt  tljeregf  to  the  new  State,  and  two  third  parts  thereof 
to  this  Commonwealth. 

Second.  All  the  arms  which  have  been  received  by  this  Common- 
wealth from  the  United  States,  under  the  law  of  Congress,  entitled, 
*'  An  act  making  provision  for  arming  and  equipping  the  whole  body 
•f  militia  of  the  United  States,  passed  April  the  twenty  third,  on« 
thou  sand  eight  hundred  and  eight,  shall,  as  soon  as  the  said  Dis- 
trict shall  become  a  separate  State,  be  divided  between  the  two 
States,  in  proportion  to  the  returns  of  the  militia,  according  to  which, 
the  said   arms  have  been  received  from  the  United   States,  as  afore- 

<'  Third.  All  money,  stock, ©r  other  proceeds,  hereafter  derived  from 
the  United  States,  on  account  of  theclaiai  of  this  Commonwealth,  for 
disbursements  made,  atid  expenses  incurred,  for  the  defence  of  the 
Stale,  during  the  late  war  with  Great  Britain,  shall  be  received  by  this 
Commonwealth,  and  when  received,  shall  be  divided  between  the  two 
States,  in  the  proportion  of  two  thirds  to  this  Commonwealth,  ami 
®ne  third    to  the   new  Stale. 

Fourlli.  All  other  property,  of  every  description,  belonging  to  the 
Commonwealth  shall  be  holden  and  receivable  by  the  same,  as  a  fund 
and  security,  for  all  d»jbts,  annuities,  and  Indian  subsidies,  or  claims 
due  by  said  Commonwealth  ;  and  within  two  years  after  the  said  Dis- 
trict shall  have  become  a  separate  State,  the  Comrais^ioners  to  be  ap- 
pointed, as  hereinafter  [)iovided,  if  the  said  Stales  cannot  otherwise 
agree,  shall  assign  a  just  portion  of  the  productive  property,  so  held 
by  said  Commonwealth,  as  an  equivalent  and  indemniiicatiim  to  said 
Commonwealth  for  all  such  debts,  annuities,  ©r  Indian  subsidies  or 
claims,  which  may  then  remain  due,  or  unsatisfied  :  a»id  all  the  sur- 
plus of  ihe  said  property,  so  holden,  as  aforesaid,  shall  be  divided  be- 
tween the  said  Commonwealth  and  the  said  District  of  Maine,  in  the 
proportion  of  two  thirds  to   ihe  said  Commonwealth,  and  one  lUird 


29 

to  the  said  District— and  if,  in  Ihe  judgment  of  iHe  said  Coramis-^ 
sioners,  the  whole  of  said  property,  so  hwld,  as  a  fund  and  security, 
shall  not  be  sufficient  indemnification  for  the  purpose,  the  said  District 
shall  be  liable  for  and  shall  pay  to  said  Commonwealth,  one  third  of 
the  deficiency. 

Fifth,  The  new  State  shall,  as  soon  as  the  necessary  arrange- 
ments can  be  made  for  that  purpose,  assume  and  perform  all  the 
duties  and  obligations  of  this  Commonwealth,  towards  the  Indiana 
within  said  District  of  Maine,  whether  the  same  arise  from  treaties, 
or  otherwise  ;  and  for  this  purpose  shall  obtain  the  assent  of  said 
Indians,  and  their  release  to  this  Commonwealth  of  elaims  and. 
stipulations  arising  under  the  treaty  at  present  existing  between 
the  said  Commonwealth  and  said  Indians  ;  and  as  an  indemnifica- 
tion to  such  new  State,  therefor,  this  Commonwealth,  when  such 
arrangements  shall  be  completed,  and  the  said  duties  and  obligations 
assumed,  shall  pay  to  said  new  S-tate,  the  value  of  thirty  thousand 
dollars,  in.  manner  following,  viz ;  The  said  Commissioners  shall 
set  off  by  metes  and  bounds,  so  much  of  any  part  of  the  land, 
within  the  said  District,  falling  to  this  Commonwealth,  in  the  divi- 
sion of  the  public  lands,  hereinafter  provided  for,  as  in  their  estima- 
tion shall  be  of  the  value  of  thirty  thousand  dollars  ;  and  this  Com- 
monwealth shall,  thereupon,  assign  the  same  to  the  said  new  State, 
or  in  lieu  thereof,  may  pay  the  sum  of  thirty  thousand  dollars  at  its 
election;  which  election  of  the  said  Commonwealth,  shall  be  made 
within  one  year  from  the  time  that  notice  of  the  doings  of  the  Com- 
missioners, on  this  subject,  shall  be  made  known  to  the  Governor 
and  Council  ;  and  if  not  made  within  that  time,  the  election 
shall  be    with  the   new  State. 

Sixth.  Commissioners,  with  the  powers  and  for  the  purposes 
mentioned  in  this  act,  shall  be  appointed  in  manner  following  ; 
The  Executive  authority  of  each  State  shall  appoint  two;  and  the 
four  so  appointed,  or  the  major  part  of  thera,  shall  appoint  two  more  ; 
but  if  they  cannot  agree  in  the  appointment,  the  Executive  of  each 
State  shall  appoint  one  in  addition  ;  not  however,  in  that  case,  to  be 
a  citizen  of  its  own  State.  And  any  vacancy  happening  with  re- 
spect to  the  Commissioners,  shall  be  supplied  in  the  manner  pro- 
vided for  their  original  appointment ;  and,  in  addition  to  the  powers 
herein  before  given  to  said  Commissioners,  they  shall  have  full  pow- 
er and  authority  to  divide  all  the  public  lands  within  the  District,  be- 
tvveen  the  respective  States,  in  equal  shares,  or  moieties,  in  several- 
ty, having  regard  to  quantity,  situation  and  quality;  they  shall 
determine  what  lands  shall  be  surveyed  and  divided,  from  time  td 
4ime,  the  expense  of  which  surveys,  and  of  the  Commissioners,  shall 
be  borne  equally  by  the  two  States.  They  shall  keep  fair  records 
of  their  doings,  and  of  tfie  surveys. made  by  their  direction,  copies 
of  which  records,  authenticated  by  them,  shall  be  deposited  from 
time  to  lime,  in  the  archives  of  the  respective  States ;  transcripts  of 
which,  properly  certified,  may  be  admitted  in  evidence,  in  all  ques- 
•ions  touching  the  subject  to  which  they  relate.  The  Executive 
.vjthority  of  each  State  may   revoke  the   power  of  either  or  boti 


3« 

Its  Commissioners;  having,  however,  first  appointed  a  substitute,  or 
substitutes,  and  may  fill  any  vacancy  happening  with  respect  to  its 
own  Commissioners ;  four  of  said  Commissioners  shall  constitute 
a  quorum,  for  the  transaction  of  business ;  their  decision  shall  be 
final,  upon  all  subjects  within  their  cognizance.  In  case  said  com- 
mission shall  expire,  the  same  not  havings  been  completed,  and  either 
State  shall  requfcst  the  renewal  or  filling  up  of  the  same,  it  shall 
be  renewed  or  filled  up  in  the  same  manner,  as  is  herein  provided 
for  filling  the  same,  in  the  first  instance,  and  with  the  like  powers  ; 
and  if  either  State  shall,  after  six  months'  notice,  neglect  or  refuse 
to  appoint  its  Commissioners,  the  other  may  fill  up  the  whole  com- 
mission. 

Seventh,  All  grants  of  lands,  franchises,  immunities,  corporate  or 
other  rights,  and  all  contracts  for,  or  grants  of  land  not  yet  located, 
which  have  been  or  may  be  made  by  the  said  Commonwealth,  be- 
fore the  separation  of  said  District  shall  take  place,  and  haiing  or  to 
bave  effect  within  the  said  District,  shall  continue  in  full  force, 
after  the  said  District  shall  become  a  separate  State.  But  the  grant 
\Thich  has  been  made  to  the  President  and  Trustees  of  Bowdoin  Col- 
lege, out  of  the  tax  laid  upon  the  Banks,  within  this  Commonwealth, 
shall  be  charged  upon  the  tax  upon  the  Banks  within  the  said  District 
of  Maine,  and  paid  according  to  the  terms  of  said  grant ;  and  the 
President  and  Trustees,  and  the  Overseers  of  said  College,  shall 
have,  hold  and  enjoy  their  powers  and  privileges  in  all  respects  ;  sd 
that  the  same  shall  not  be  subject  to  be  altered,  limited,  annulled  or 
fe?trained,  except  by  judicial  process,  according  to  the  principles  of 
law  ;  and  in  all  grants  hereafter  to  be  made,  by  either  State,  of  unlo- 
cated  land  within  the  said  District,  the  same  reservations  shall  be 
made  for  the  benefit  of  Schools,  and  of  the  Ministry,  as  have  hereto- 
fore been  usual,  in  grants  made  by  this  Commonwealth.  And  all 
lands  heretofore  granted  by  this  Commonwealth,  to  any  religious, 
literary,  or  eleemosynary  corporation,  or  society,  shall  be  free  from 
taxation,  while  the  same  continues  to  be  owned  by  such  corporation, 
•r  society. 

Eighth.  No  laws  shall  be  passed  in  the  proposed  State,  with  regard 
to  taxes,  actions,  or  remedies  at  law,  or  bars,  or  limitations  thereof^ 
or  otherwise  making  any  distinction  between  the  land*  and  rights  of 
property  of  proprietors,  not  resident  in,  or  not  citizens  of  said  proposed 
State,  and  tlie  lands  and  rights  of  property  of  the  citizens  of  the  pro- 
posed State,  resident  (herein  ;  and  llie  rights  and  liabilities  of  all  per- 
sons, shall,  after  the  said  separation,  continue  the  same  as  if  the 
said  District  was  still  a  pa>'t  of  this  Commonwealth,  in  all  suits  pend- 
ing, or  judgments  remaining  unsatisfied  on  the  fifteenth  day  of  March 
jiext,  where  the  suits  have  been  commenced  in  Massachusetts  Proper, 
and  process  has  been  served  within  the  District  of  Maine  ;  or  com- 
menced in  the  District  of  Maine,  and  process  has  been  served  in 
MHSsachusetIs  Proper,  either  by  taking'  bail,  making  attachments,  ar- 
resting ar)d  detaining  persons,  or  otherwise,  where  execution  remains 
to  be  done;  and  in  such  suits,  the  Courts  within  Massachusetts  Proper, 
»nd  within  the  proposed  State,  shall  continue  to  have  the  same  ju- 
.  isrllction  as  if  the  said  Disfcficl  had  still  remained  a  pert  of  the  6'oHr- 


31 

«ionwea!lh.  And  this  Commonwealth  shall  have  the  same  remedies 
v^ithin  the  proposed  State,  as  it  now  has,  for  the  collection  of  all  tax- 
es, bonds,  or  debts,  which  maybe  assessed,  due,  made  or  contracted,, 
by,  to,  or  with  the  Commonwealth,  on  or  before  the  said  fifteenth  day 
of  March,  within  the  said  District  of  Maine  ;  and  all  officers  within 
Massachusetts  Proper  and  the  District  of  Maine,  shall  conduct 
themselves  accordingly. 

Ninth  These  terms  and  conditions,  as  here  set  forth,  when  the  said 
District  shall  become  a  «epara(e  and  Independent  State,  shall, ?;7jo/ac- 
io^  be  incorporated  into,  and  become  and  be  a  part  of  any  Constitu- 
tion, provisional  or  other,  under  which  the  Government  of  the  said 
proposed  State,  shall,  at  any  time  hereafter,  be  administered  ;  subject, 
however,  to  be  modified,  or  annulled  by  the  agreement  of  the  Legis- 
lature of  both  the  said  States;  but  by  no  other  power  or  body  what- 
soever. 

Sec.  6.     This  Constitution  shall  be  enrolled  on  parch- 
mentp  deposited  in  the  Secretary's  ofBce^and  be  the  supreme 
law  of  the  state,  and  printed  copies  thereof  shall  be  prefixed 
to  the  books  containing  the  laws  of  this  state. 
D^tu  in  Convention  J  October  29,  1819. 

WILLIAM  KING,  President 

of  the  Convention  and  member  fiom  Balk, 


List  of  Delegates  returned  to  the  Convention,'^ 

COUNTY  OF  YORK. 

York,  Elihu  Bragdon,  David  Wilcox — Kiitery,  Alexander 
Rice — Wells f  Joseph  Thomas — Bem-ick,  VViliiani  Hobbs,  Na- 
thaniel Hobbs,  Richard  F.  Cutis — Bidde/ord,  Georg;©  Thacher, 
Selh  Spring — Arundel^  Simon  Novvel! — Saco,  William  M^ody, 
Ether  Shepley^  George  Thacher,  junior — Lebanon^  David  Le- 
grow — Buxton,  Gideon  Elden,  Josiah  Paine,  Edmnnd  Wood- 
man— Lyman,  John  Low,  John  Bufbank — Sfiopleigfi,  John 
Leighlon — Parsonsfield,  David  Marstcai,  Abner  Hazen — Water- 
borovgk,    Samuel  Bradeen,  Henry   Hobbs — Limington,   David 

Boyd — Cornish^  Tliomas  A.  Johnson — Alfred,  John  Holmes 

Hollis,  Ellis  B.  Usher,  I'imothy  Hodsdon — South- Bet  wick,  Ben- 
j^niin  Green — Limerick,  John  Burnhain.  York,  Jeiemiah 
Bradbury.*"  Kittery,  Joshua  T.  Chase.*  Wells,  George  W. 
Wallini^ford,*  Joseph  Dane,*  Nahum  Morrell,*  SatYiuel  Curtis, 
junior.*"  Lebanon.  Daniel  Wood.*  Sanford,  Elisha  Allen,* 
Timothy  Shaw.*     Shapleigh,  John  Bod  well,*  Samuel  Heard> 


'^  Thos«  with  this  mark  (*)  did  not  sign  the  Constitutiec^ 


32 

Limington,  Nathaniel  Clark.^     Elliot,  Stephen  Neal,*"  Elisha 
Sbapleigb.^  CUMBERLAND. 

Scarborough^   Benjamin  Larrabee,   junror,   Joseph    Fogg 

North  Yarmouth,   William  Buxton,   Ephraim  Sturdivant,  Jere- 
miah Bux (on -—Fa/wawi/i,  Peter  M.  Knight,  Nathan  Bucknam — 
Brunswick,  Robert  D.  Dunning,  Jonathan  Page,  Benjamin  Tit- 
comb — HarpswelU  Stephen  Purringlon — Gorham.  Lathrop  Lew- 
is, Joseph   Adams,    James    Irish — Cape-Elizabeth,   Ebenezer 

Thrasher — New  Gloucester^  Joseph  E.  Foxcroft,  Isaac  Gross 

Gray,  Joseph  McLellan — Standish,   Theodore  Mtjssey Port- 

landy  Albion  K.  Parris,  William  P.  Preble — Freeport,  Solomon 
Dcnni-(9n — Durham^  Secomb  Jordan,  Allen  H.  Cobb — Bridg- 
touy  Phinebas  Ingals — Po/anc?,  Josiah  Dunn,  junior — Minot,  A- 
saph  Howard,  Chandler  Freeman— Da77T;i//e,  Joseph  Roberts— 
Baldwin,  Lot  Davis — Raymond,  Zachariah  Leach — Pownal, 
Isaac  Cushtn^n— We sibroak,  Silas  Estes,  Thoinas  Slemons,  John 
Jones — Harrison,  Amos  Thomes.  North  Yarmouh,  Calvin 
Stockbridte.*  ^Fi?infA(im,  Noah  Reed,*  Josiah  Chute.*  Stand- 
ishy  James  D.  Tucker.*  Portland,  Ezekiel  Whitman,*  Henrj 
Smith,*  Nicholas  Einerj,*  Asa  Clap,*  Isaac  Hsley.* 
LINCOLN. 

Georgetown,  Benjamin  Riggs — N^w  Castle,  Ebenezer  Farley 
'-^^Wooiwich,  Ebenezer  Delano — Wiscasset,  Abiel  Wood,  War- 
ren Rice — Bowdoinham,  Ebenezer Jrler; irk,  Elihu  Hatch--7'ops- 
ham,  Nalhanitl  Green — Boothbay,  Daniel  Ro.^e,  John  McKovvn 
— Bristol,  Samuel  Tucker,  William  M'Clintock,  John  F^.'Ssel — 
IValdoborough,  Jo-hua  Head,  Isaac  G.  Reed,  Jacob  D.  Ludvvfg, 
junior — Edgcomb,  Stephen  Parsons — Warren,  John  Miller,  Cy- 
rus Eaton — Thomastun,  isaac  Barnard,  Joho  Spear— fia^A, 
Joshua  Wingate.  jutiior,  Benjamin  Ames — Union,  Robert  Fos- 
ter— Bowduiri,  Joseph  Carr — Nobleborough,  Ef)liraim  R)Hins — 
Cushtng,  Edward  Kslieran — Camden,  Nathaaiei  Martin — Dres- 
den^ Isaac  Liilie — Lewiston,  John  Herrick — Litchfield,  Joha 
Neal,  David  C.  Burr — Liabon,  Nathaniel  Eames,  James  Small- 
St.  George,  Joel  Miller — Hope,  Fergus  M'Ciaine — Palenm 
Thomas  Eastman — Montville,  Cyrus  D:^vis — Jefferson,  Jesse 
\\o\st;\\—  Friendship,  fVlelzer  Thomas — PVfdtefielst,  Joseph  Bar- 
ley — Putnam,  Mark  Hatch — Alna,  John  \3o\q^— Wales,  Joseph 
Small.  Phiphbiirg,  Faik^v  McCohh"^ 
ICENNEBECK. 

HaUozvelL  6'amuel  Moody,  Willi  sm  H  Page,  B€njan^i:^ 
Dtaibojn — Winthr^p  Alexander  Belcher,  Darie)  Canipbell— 
^^.tLssalbfirmii^k   iDa!.iiiJ»el   lied in<i ion,  Abi:Jii   Gc'leiieli — Winsiozsi; 


33 

Wiiliatn  Swan — Pittston^EVi  Young — Green^  Luther  Robbins-^ 
Read/ield,  John  Hubbard,  Samuel  Currier — -Monmouth^  John 
Chandler,  Simon  Dearborn  junior. — Mount-Vernon,  David  Mc 
Gaflfey — Sidney^  Ambrose  Howard,  Reuel  Howard — Farming- 
touy  Nathan  Cutler,  Jabez  Gay — New  Sharon,  Christopher  Dy- 
er— Clinioriy  Herbert  Moore — Fayette,  Charles  Smith — Bel- 
grade, Elias  Taylor — Harlem^  William  Pullen — Augusta,  Dan- 
iel 'Cony,  Joshua  Gage,  James  Bridge — Wayne,  Joseph  Lam- 
son-r-Leeds,  7>iOmas  Francis — Chestermlle,  Ward  Locke — Vi- 
enna, Nathaniel  Whi:(ier — Waterville,  Abijah  Smith,  Ebenezer 
Bacon — Gardiner,  Jacob  Davis,  Sanford  Kingsbery — Temple, 
Benjamin  Abbot — Wilton,  Ebenezer  Eaton — Rome,  John  S. 
Colboih — Fairfax,  Joel  Wellington — Unity,  Rufus  Burnham — 
Malta,  William  Hilton — Freedom,  Matthew  Randall — Jey, 
James  Parker^-C/ii/ia,  Daniel  Stevens.  Vassalborongh,  MoiQS 
Sleeper.'^  Dearborn,  Peasly  Morrell,  junior.* 
HANCOCK. 

Belfast,  Alfred  Johnson,  junior — Islesbnrough,  Josiah  Far- 
row— Deer-Isle,  liioatius  Haskell,  A.^a  Grc^n — Bluehill,  An- 
drew W^ilbam— -7Ven^o?/,  Peter  Haynes — Sullivan,  George  Hen- 
man — Goiddabmovghf  Samuel  Davis — Finalhaven^  Benjamin 
Beverage — Frankfort.  Alexander  Milliken,  Joshua  Hall>— ^t/dts- 
port,  Samuel  Little — Prospect,  Abel  W.  Atherlon — Castine, 
William  Abbot — Northport,  David  Alden — Eden,  Nicholas 
'J'homas,  junior — Oriand,  Horatio  Mason — KUsrvorth,  Mark 
Sliepard — Lmcolnvi'le,  Sairuel  A.  Whitney — Belmont,  Jr.mes 
Weymouth — Brooks,     Sau-iuel    Whitney — Jackson,    Rordman 

Johnson Searsmont,    Ansel     Lathrop Swanvdie,    Eleazar 

Nickeison — Thorndike,  Joseph  Blethen  Munroe.  Joseph  Neal- 
\y — Knox.J'AmQS  Weed.  £i<c7c5pori,  Samuel  M  Fund*  Surry^ 
Leonard  Jarvis.* 

WASHINGTON. 

Machias,  John  Dickmson — Steuben,  Alexander  N'rbols— 
Harrington,  James  Campbell — Eastport,  John  Hurgin— Jo/ics- 
borough,  Ephraim  Whitney- — Calais,  William  Vance — Lutec, 
Lemuel  Tr(  scot! — Robbinston,  Thomas  Vose — Cherry  field,  Jo- 
seph Adams — Perry,  Peter  Golding.  Eastport,  Jonathan 
Bartlet* 

OXFORD. 

Fryeburg,  Judah  Dana — Turner,  John  Turner,  Philip  Brad- 
loiil--^ Hebroii,  AlexanderGreenwood — Buckfield,  Enoch  Hall— 
Paris,  James  Hooper,  Beniamin  Chandler — Jay,  Cornelius 
HoiJand— Lirermore,     Benjaanin    Bradford,    Thomas    Chase, 


34 

junior— Bc^/ie^  John  Grover^^Waierfordf  Josiah  Shaw — JSTor- 
way,  Aaron  Wilkiiis — Hartford,  Joseph  Tobin — Sumner,  Cal- 
vin Bisbee — Rumford,  Peter  C.  Virgin — Lovell,  Josiah  Healcl, 
2ii — Browrifield,  James  Steele — Albany,  Asa  Cummings — Dix- 
yield,  Solomon  Leland — I'Mst  Andover,  Sylvanus  Poor — Gilead, 
Eliphaz  Chapman — JVezvry,  Luke  ReWy — Denmark,  Cyrus  In- 
galls — Porter,  William  Towle — Hiram,  Marshal  Spring — 
^ooc?5^ocfc,  Cornelius  Perkins — GreeniJbood,  Isaac  F'int-feec/c/i, 
Samuel  Nevers — Weld,  La  Fayette  Perkins — Mexico,  Walter 
P.  Carpenter. 

SOiMERSET. 

Canaan,  Wentvvorth  Tultie.  Fairfield,  William  Kendall. 
Norridgewock,  William  Allen,  junior.  5rarA:s,  James  Waugh. 
Cornville,  George  Bixby.  Anson,  James  Collins.  Strong, 
Jnmes  M;^yhew.  Avon,  Samuel  Sprague.  JVew  Vineyard, 
William  Talcutt  Harmony,  Robert  Evans,  Intusiry,  Ezekiel 
Hinkley.  .^f/ie/?s  Isaiah  Dore.  JV/aa^iiO/i,  John  NeaL  Emb- 
«Vt,  Andrew  McF'adden.  Palmyra,  Samuel  Lancey.  Free- 
man. Jonathan  Brown.  JVew-Portland,  Henry  Norton.  Solon^ 
Eiihha  Coolid.ire.  Bingham,  Obed  Wilson,  Phillips.  Joseph 
D>cr.  St.  .;i/^flfn.9,  Benjamin  French.  King f eld,  Joseph 
Knapp.  Corinna,  William  Elder.  Ripley,  Jacob  Hale  Bloom- 
field,  Eleazar  Coburn.  Warsaw.  Stevens  Kendall.  Fairfiekl, 
Stephen  Thayer*  Mercer,  Nahum  Baldwin.*  JYortiihilly 
William  Butterfield  * 

PENOBSCOT. 

i/r7?>ioc?6n,  Simeon  Stetson.  Orri/ig^on,  John  Wilkins.  Ban- 
gor,  Joseph  Treat.  Orono,  Jackson  Davis.  Dixmont,  Samuel 
Butman  Brewer,  George  Leonard.  Eddington^  Luther  Ea- 
ton. €armel,  Abel  Buggies.  Corinth,  Andrew  Sfrong.  Exeter, 
Nathaniel  Atkins.  Garland,  Amos  Gordon.  New-Charleston, 
Daniel  Wilkins.  Foxcroft,  Samuel  Chamberlain.  Sebec.  Wii- 
iliam  R.  Lowney.  Herman,  William  Patten.  Levant  Moses^ 
Hodsdon.  Newport,  Bewjamin  Shaw.  Sangerville^  Benjamin 
C.  Goss.  Dexter,  Isaac  Fanar.  Guilford,  Joseph  Kelsey. 
Atkinson,  Ejeazar  W.  Snow.  JVewburgh  John  Whitney. 
.Attest,  BOBERr  C.  VOSE,  Secretary, 


DEBATES, 

aiCSOLUTIONS,  AND  OTHER  PROCEEDINGS, 
OF 

THE   CONVENTION, 

FOR   FORMING   A 

CONSTITUTION  FOR  THE  STATE  OF  MAINE. 


IN  CONVENTION, 

Monday,  October  11,  1819. 

Agreeably  to  the  provisions  of  the  Act  of  the  Common- 
wealth of  Massachusetts,  passed  June  19,  1811,  entitled  "  An 
Act  relating  to  the  Separation  of  the  District  of  Maine  from  Mas- 
sachusetts Proper,  and  foriHing  the  same  into  a  Separate  and 
Independent  Slate,"  the  Delegates  therein  mentioned,  assembled 
at  the  Court  House  in  Portland  ;  when  the  Hon.  Daniel  Cony 
was  by  vote,  unanimously  requpsled  to  take  the  chair,  and  he 
thereupon  made  the  following  address  : — 

Gentlemen  : 

With  this  day,  commences  a  new  era  in  the  history  of 
Maine  :  a  new  State  has  arisen  into  existence,  under  circum- 
stances that  will  enable  it  to  take  an  honorable  rank  with  the 
older  States  of  the  Union.  The  Convention  here  convened  in 
this  Hall,  consecrated  to  Justice,  and  assigned  by  the  Legisla- 
ture, as  the  place  for  their  meeting,  have  a  high  and  responsible 
trust  in  charge.  Let  us  endeavor  not  to  disappoint  the  re^jsona- 
b!e  expectations  ot  our  constituents.  The  first  business  will  be, 
to  examine  the  returns  of  the  members,  and  that  before  we 
proceed  to  organize  the  convention. 

On  motion,  it  was  then  Voted,  that  the  Hon.  John  Holmes, 
Hon,  Albion  K.  Parris,  Hon.  Joshua  Gage,  Hon.  Judah  Dana, 
and  William  Abbot,  E^q.  be  a  committee  to  examine  the  cre- 
dentials of  the  m.embeis. 

The  committee  reported,  that  on  examinaiion  it  appeared 
there  were  two  hundred  and  seventy  four  memoers  present,  le- 
gally returned  ;  which  report,  with  the  names  of  the  members 
being  read,  was  accepted. 

On  the  invitation  of  the  Hon.  Chairman,  the  Rev.  Mr.  Tit- 
icomb,  of  Brunswick,  then   addressed  the  throne   of  Grace,  for 


36 

guidance  and  direction  in  their  important  duties  ;  after  which 
the  Convention  adjourned  to  3  o'clock,  P.  M. 

Afternoon.  The  Convention  proceeded  to  the  choice  of  a 
President,  by  ballot ;  and  a  committee,  consisting  of  the  Hon. 
Benjamm  Greene,  Hon.  Ezekiel  Whitman,  Hon.  James  Bridge, 
Hon.  Benjamin  Ames,  and  the  Hon.  James  Campbell,  was  ap- 
pointed, to  collect,  sort  and  count  the  votes,  fvho  reported,  that 
the  whole  number  was  241  ;  of  which  the  Hon.  William  King 
had  230,  and  he  was  accordmgly  declared  to  be  duly  elected. 
He  was  then  conducted  to  his  seat,  by  the  committee  and  made 
the  following  address  : — 

Gentlemen  of  the  Convention  ! 

The  Conveniion,  on  the  suggestion  of  the  Hon.  Gentleman 
who  preceded  ine  in  this  chair,  having  acknowledged  the  good- 
ness of  the  Great  Legislator  of  the  Universe,  in  affording  the 
people  ot  the  District  an  opportunity  of  entering  into  a  solemn 
compact  with  each  other,  the  occasion  of  our  present  meeting 
may  now  be  made  the  subject  of  general  congratulation. 

To  you,  gentlemeH,  to  whose  persevering  and  successful  ef- 
forts we  are  mdebted  for  the  occasion  which  so  happily  calls  us 
to«;eiher  ;  the  peo[>le,  who  will  derive  such  extensive  benefits 
from  those  efforts,  can  never  cease  to  be  grateful. 

The  duties  you  have  assigned  me  are  arduous — I  will  endea*- 
©r  to  perform  them.  Although  they  will  ryot  be  the  most  impor- 
tant they  will  be  s'lch  as  require  much  of  your  aid  and  iniul- 
gence. 

The  Convention  then  proceeded  to  the  chofce  of  a  Sec  c  ^ry, 
by  ballot,  when  it  appeared  the  whole  number  of  votes  was  243  ; 
necessary  for  a  ch(»ice  122;  lUo  were  for  H.  C.  Vuse,  Esq.;. 
73  for  A^hur  Ware,  Esq. ;  50  for  Nathaniel  Coffin,  Esq  ;  and 
15  scattering. 

On  the  next  ballot,  257  were  given  in  ;  of  which  Robert  C. 
Vose,  Esq.  had  166,  and  wa^  chosen  and  accepted. 

The  Hon.  Juiige  Parris  (of  Portlaini)  sufimitted  three  reso- 
lutions, to  ajspuint  coiiimittees  ;  Isl,  to  draft  rules  for  the  regu- 
lation of  the  Cuovenlior)  ;  2d,  to  app'y  to  Contrress  for  admis- 
sion into  the  Union;  and  3d,  to  report  a  Cons  iluiion.  It  w^as 
then 

Resolved^  That  a  committee,  consisting  of  three  members,  he 
appointed  to  piepaie  and  report  proper  rults  of  proceedings  for 
this  Convention.  The  Hon.  George  Thacher,  Hon.  Benjamin 
Greene,  and  the  Hon.  James  Campbell,  were  appointed  on  said 
committee. 


37 

Resolved,  That  a  Sergeant  at  Arms  be  appointed  by  the  Pres- 
ident, whose  duty  it  shall  be,  to  execu'e  the  orders  of  the  Con- 
veritiof^^  and  to  assist  the  President  in  the  preservation  of  order  ; 
and  he  shall  employ  a  dooikeeper  and  such  assistants  as  may  be 
necessary. 

Mr.  \Villiam  B.  Peters,  of  Portland,'  was  appointed. 

Resolved,  Th.U  the  several  ordained  and  settled  Clergvmen 
of  the  town  of  Purthnd  be  requested  by  the  Sergeant  at  Arms, 
in  behalf  of  this  Gon\enlion,  from  day  to  day,  in  succession,  ac- 
cording to  iheir  seniority,  to  attend  and  perform  the  duties  of 
Chaplain  of  ihis  Convention. 

Resolved,  That  the  President  as'^ii.^n  to  any  Editor  of  any  pub- 
lic ni^wspaper,  or  the  agent  of  any  ^uch  Editor,  who  may  apjdy 
for  it,  aconvfoieni  situation  for  the  purpose  of  taking  notes  of 
the  proceedinor.s  of  this  convention. 

Resolved,  That  a  committee  of  Elections  be  appointed,  con- 
sisti  \<^  of  tive  members. 

Voted,  That  the  Conventicni  adjourn,  to  meet  in  the  Meeting- 
House  of  the  First  Pa'i-.h  in  Portland,  (whioli  had  been  offered 
for  their  use)  tomorrow  mornuv^,  at  9  u'ciock. 


TUF:SDAY,  OCTOBER  12. 

The  convention  met  according  to  adjournment,  at  the  Meet- 
ing-hou^e  ot  (he  Fir>t  Pari  h. 

The  comrnittee  appointed  to  prepare  niles  of  proceedings  hav- 
ing attended  to  the  du'ie^  assigned  them,  reported  the  rules  and 
ordf^rs  of  tlie  Hou^e  of  Keprvsenl-itives  of  tins  Commonwealth, 
with  such  alterdtions  as  were  reqiiisite,  to  ad.ipt  them  to  the  use 
of  the  cofjveniion. 

Tlie  I4;h  rule  provided  that  all  commitlpes  shouM  be  no»ni- 
nated  by  ihe  Pre.iitii^nt  and  app(jinled  Uy  the  cojiventi<>n,  unless 
ten  members  should  be  in  fav  »r  of  Ih^ir  being  nuu  i  iated  by 
the  conventiofi,  in  which  case  the  no^nination  should  come  from 
the  c(»nveutiun. 

This  rule  was  objected  to  by  Mr  Prebie,  of  Portland,  on  the 
ground  ihat  it  put  it  in  rhe  power  <if  a  very  sniall  number,  to 
control  Jhe  geix  ral  wi^h  of  the  Co'ivention.  After  some  con- 
versation, in  which  iVL'Ssrs.  Pie  '-e,  Fhach  r,  (jf  fUbief  )rJ, 
Holmes,  of  Alfred,  and  Lewis,  of  Gorham,  took  a  part,  the  fule 
was  amended,  on  the  motion  of  the  latter  gentleman,  so  that  all 
tfee  committees  should  be  nominated  by  the  President,  exceot 
4 


S8 

sMch  as  should  be  chosen  by  ballot,  unless  the  Convention  shall 
•ihervvise  dt  leruiine. 

The  report,  as  amended,  was  Hnn  accepted,  and  ordered  to 
be  printed  vvfth  a  h>t  cf  the  fr.emter.s,  and  the  several  tommit- 
tees  wliich  have  been  appomttd 

Judge  Parris  called  up  the  thiid  resolution  proposed  by  him 
yeslerday. 

lion.  Mr.  Holmes,  of  Alfred.  Mr  President,  there  is  con- 
siderable solicitude  existing  on  tlii^  sul-jf^ct,  and  well  there  may 
be.  The  people  look  with  anxiety  to  the  committee  v\ho  are 
to  report  a  constitution,  and  wdl  not  be  satirfied,  unless  the 
feelings  and  interests,  not  only  of  every  part  of  the  District, 
but  of  every  class  of  society,  are  represented  in  the  comn  iilpe. 
I  do  not  complain  of  this  solicitude  ;  it  is  natur?»l  and  laudable, 
and  I  feel  fully  disposed  to  gratify  the  general  vvish.  But  in 
•rder  to  this,  the  committee  must  of  necessity  be  largo  ;  at  the 
same  time  it  is  desirable,  for  the  purpose  of  despatch,  that  it 
should  not  be  so  large  as  to  be  unwieldy.  I  would  suggest  to 
the  large  counties  a  liber?J  course  in  the  appointment,  and  that 
the  small  counties  should  have  more  than  an  equal  proportiDO. 
I  would  therefore  move,  that  twenty  two  members  be  selected 
for  this  committee,  and  that  thiee  be  taken  frum  each  of  the  large 
counties,  and  two  from  each  of  the  smaller  ones. 

Mr.  Wood,  of  Lebanon,  objected  to  the  nun)ber,  as  too  small, 
and  proposed  to  fill  the  blank  with  the  number  49 — :^nd  ^i^e 
seven  to  each  of  the  four  large  counties,  and  four  to  each  of  ihe 
•ther  counties,  except  Somerset,  which  should  have  five. 

At  the  suggestion  of  the  H(»n.  Judge  D^na,  of  Fryeburg,  that 
Oxford  at  the  last  census,  contained  about  one  third  more  in- 
habitants than  Somerset,  he  consetited  so  to  modify  his  motion, 
as  to  give  Oxford  five  and  Somerset  four. 

Hon.  Mr.  Moody,  of  Saco,  said  he  w^s  not  prepared  for  the 
apportionment  among  the  counties.  Me  wished  the  number  of 
the  comndttee  to  be  first  fixed,  and  atlerwards  apportioned 
among  the  several  counties,  according  tolheir  population.  He 
observed,  the  proposed  num.ber  was  too  large  for  the  despatch 
uf  business.  A  small  committee,  said  he,  wil!  much  sooner  pre- 
sent the  Convention  v\i!h  the  skeleton  ol  a  constitution,  Ihaa  a 
large  one;  and  this  it  is  desirable  to  obtain  as  soon  as  possible. 
For.  however  large  the  committee  may  be,  or  however  complete 
their  report,  the  principles  must  be  debated  a»;d  settled  in  the 
G^ynveRtioB. 


39 

Hon.  Mr.  Whitman,  of  Portland,  was  opposed  to  so  large  a 
Bumber  iur  the  committee.  Several  incoiivenlencea  he  thought 
would  result  from  appoin^iig  one  so  numerous.  We  want^ 
said  he,  only  a  sketch  of  a  constitution  io  the  first  place,  which 
the  whole  conven  ion  will  fill  up,  and  to  which  they  will  give 
form  and  proportion.  But  if  the  commiitee  were  so  large,  there 
would  be  as  mauy  different  opinions  among  them,  as  there  are 
in  the  convention.  Much  time,  therefore,  would  necessarily 
be  consumed  in  debating  among  themselves,  upon  the  several 
articles  of  the  constitution.  They  would  go  largely  into  debate 
in  the  detail,  and  when  they  came  into  the  convention,  would 
come  confirmed  in  the  opinions  which  they  had  advocated  in 
the  committee.  If  so  large  a  number  as  49  were  taken,  the 
consliiution  would  be  settled  in  committee,  and  it  might  be  dif- 
ficult, if  so  large  a  body  were  to  combine  to  support  the  report, 
to  obtain  amendments.  But  should  a  smaller  number  be  se- 
lected, it  would  be  less  difficult  to  obtain  amendments,  and  the 
constitution  that  might  be  uliinately  agreed  upon,  would  more 
fairly  express  the  sense  of  the  convention  ;  and  therefore,  in  all 
probability  correspond  more  nearly  with  the  exf)ectations  of  the 
people,  A  small  committee  to  draw  up  a  constitution,  would 
be  the  most  likely  to  hasten  the  progress  of  the  proceedings,  as  " 
the  convention  may  the  sooner  have  an  opportunity  to  consider 
the  ditferent  provisions,  to  discuss  them  and  come  to  some  final 
agreement.  He  therefore  thought,  thirteen  would  be  a  suffi- 
cient number  to  answer  every  object  the  members  desired  of 
the  committee  ;  and  proposed  that  one  should  be  taken  from 
each  County,  and  the  remainder  at  large. 

Hon.  Judge  Green,  of  South-Berwick,  observed,  there  is  one 
simple  que.-tion  before  the  Convention,  that  is  the  nufnber  of 
which  the  Committee  shall  consist.  1  consider,  said  he,  with 
o'her  genllenien,  that  the  feelings,  views,  and  interests  of  al! 
classes  of  the  citizen?,  in  every  section  of  the  District,  should 
be  consulted  in  the  selection.  But  I  think  a  smaller  number 
than  that  proposed  by  the  motion  under  consideration,  would 
answer  this  purpose  as  well,  and  also  save  the  time  of  the  Con- 
vention. It  is  not  so  important  that  the  reported  Constitution 
should  be  perfectly  matured,  as  that  it  be  made  expeditiously. 
It  is  not  necessary  it  should  be  perfect  in  all  its  details  ;  it  may 
be  amended  in  the  Convention  ;  but  until  it  is  reported,  we 
have  nothing  to  occupy  our  attention. 

Mr.  Holmes  rose  again.     I  believe,  said  he,  there  h  a  spirit 


4tr 

of  conciliatinn  in  this  Convention.  T  came  here  with  a  dispo- 
sition to  yielJ  my  own  opinions  to  tho.^e  of  others.  Some  gen- 
tlemen prefer  a  veiy  nurrierous,  and  son»e  a  very  small  com- 
mittee I  prefer,  said  Mr.  H.  a  medium.  Of  the  numbers 
proposed,  I  ihiuk  the  one  so  numerous,  as  to  be  siow  and  un- 
wieldy in  its  motions  ;  and  the  other,  proposed  by  the  gentle- 
man from  Portland,  is  not  numerous  enough  to  satisfy  the  gen- 
eral vvi^ihes  of  the  Convention.  He  then  proposed  ihirly-one, 
as  a  safe  mean  between  the  two  extremes. 

Hon  Judge  Bridge,  of  Augusta,  said,  I  am  not  satisfied  with 
the  number  proposed  by  the  gentleman  frbm  Lebanon  It  is 
desirable  that  the  Committee  .-hould  be  large  en(»ugh  to  admit 
of  sub-committet'S,  to  frame  different  parts  of  the  Constitution, 
without  being  so  much  so,  as  to  injpede  their  business.  He  pro- 
posed, if  the  pre:?ent  motion  should  not  succeed,  to  move  that 
ihe  blank  be  filled  with  thirty-three,  which  would  be  in  the  ra- 
tio ot  about  one  to  nine  of  the  whole  delegates  returned,  and 
might  be  equally  distributed  among  the  severa'  Counties. 

Judge  Thacher  said,  he  saw  no  reason  to  be  particularly  at- 
tached to  the  number  thirty  three.  He  observed,  the  num- 
ber that  framed  the  Constitution  of  Massachusetts,  was  twenty- 
seven. 

Hon,  Mr.  Chandler,  of  Monmouth,  said  he  came  here  with 
impressions  in  favor  of  a  much  smaller  number  than  forty-nine. 
But  as  there  is  a  disposition  to  have  it  numerous,  I  would  not, 
said  he,  object  to  thirty-one,  but  consider  thirty-three  as  the 
best  number. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  Mr.  Wood's  motion  to  fill 
the  blank  with  lorty-nine,  and  it  passed  in  the  negative  by  a 
large  majority. 

The  blank  was  then  filled,  and  the  resolution  passed  as  fol- 
lows :  Resolved,  Thai  Si  Committee  consisting  of  thirty-three 
members,  be  appointed  to  prepare  and  report  to  this  Conven- 
tion, a  Constitution  or  frame  of  Government  for  the  new  State, 
agreeably  to  the  4th  section  of  the  act  of  the  Legislature  of  the 
Commonweakh  of  Massachusetts,  passed  June  19,  1819,  enti- 
tled '*  An  act  relating  to  the  Separation  of  Maine  from  Massa- 
chusetts proper,  and  forming  the  same  into  a  Separate  and  In- 
dependent State."  Ordered,  That  the  said  Committee  be  se- 
lected in  the  manner  following,  viz.  from  York,  five  ;  from 
Cu.mberland,  five  ;  from  Lincoln,  five  ;  from  Kennebeck,  five  ; 
fro^n  Oxford,  three  ;  from  Somerset,  three  ;  from  Hancock, 
three  ;  from  Penobscot,  two  ;  and  frcun  Washinglonj  two. 


41 

Judge  Pairis  then  called  up  his  second  resolution,  which  pass* 
ed  as  follows  : 

Resolved,  That  a  Committee,  conslsiinor  of  five  members,  be 
appointed  to  prep.ire  and  report  to  this  Convention,  an  applica- 
ticn  to  the  Congress  of  the  United  Stales,  for  its  assent  to  be 
given,  before  thf  last  sl^y  ot  Januaiy  next,  that  the  District  of 
Mame  be  admitted  into  the  Umon,  as  a  Separate  and  Indepen- 
dent State. 

On  motion  of  iVIr,  Whitman  Ordered^  That  the  wall  pews,  oa 
the  S.  E.  side  of  ihe  meeting  hou.^e,  be  appropriated  tor  the  use 
of  such  >pectat«  rs,  as  may  be  invited  to  take  a  seat,  by  any 
me(nber  of  the  Convention, 

Mr.  Preble,  of  Portland,  rose  and  observed,  that  his  Hon. 
Colleague  had  omitted,  in  the  Resolutions  which  were  yester- 
day laid  on  the  table,  one  subject,  on  which  the  Convention 
might  find  it  necessary  to  act.  The  act,  under  which  we  are 
assembled,  said  Mr.  P.  requires  us  to  frame  a  Coristitution,  to 
be  submitted  to  the  people  ;  and  this  may  be  either  accepted 
or  rejected.  In  the  latter  case,  the  Constitution  of  Massachu- 
setts, is  provisionally,  to  be  the  Constitution  of  Maine,  with 
snch  modifications  as  the  nature  of  the  case  requires.  In  such 
an  pvent,  said  Mr.  P.  the  State  would  iitdeed  have  a  Constitu- 
tion, but  w^onld  be  without  a  name,  as  we  are  not  at  liberty  to 
assume  the  name  and  style  of  the  Commonwealth  of  Massachu- 
setts. To  avoid  the  awkward  predicament  in  which  we  might 
thus  be  placed,  of  being  a  State  without  a  name — Ihe  law  had 
authorized  and  reqvired  the  Convention,  to  fix  the  style  and  title 
of  the  new  State.  The  Constitution  about  to  be  framed,  must 
be  submitted  to  the  people  ;  but  the  Convention  alone,  have 
the  authority  to  determine  the  style  and  title.  And  further,  as 
the  name  is  a  distinct  subject  of  consideration  from  that  of  the 
Constitution  itself,  it  would  save  the  time  of  the  Committee  for 
drafting  ihe  Constitution,  and  of  the  Convention  itself,  to  settle 
this  question,  while  'hey  were  preparing  their  report.  He 
Iheret^ore  offered  a  Resolulion,  to  raise  a  Committee  to  report^ 
a  proper  style  and  tiile  for  Ihe  new  State. 

Mr.  Whitman  said,  he  considered  the  motion  premature. 
The  first  thing,  he  said,  to  be  settled  in  forming  a  Constitution, 
is  the  style  and  title  of  the  new  State.  It  forms  a  part  of  the 
Constitution,  and  ought  to  be  determined  on  by  the  Con.mittee 
which  reports  it.  U  is  of  the  very  essence  of  the  duty  of  tha  fra- 
fuers  of  the  Constitution,  to  give  a  style  and  title  to  the  State 
4  * 


42 

Continual  reference  must  be  made,  in  drafting  it,  to  the  nsmt 
of  the  Slate  ;  and  it  appears  to  be  a  great  absurdity,  to  foirii  a 
C(.ns\itution  lor  a  Slate,  until  a  n?»nie  bas  been  given  it.  A 
sound  construction  of  ibe  act,  said  Mr.  W.  will  not  authorise  the 
Convention  to  fix  this  of -heir  own  authority,  until  the  Cou'^tiiu- 
ti(n,  vvbicb  they  shall  present  to  ?be  people,  has  been  rejected, 
and  then  tbe  autbority  will  ner;es?arily  devolve  upon  them. 
The  Convention  will  be  in  session  in  Jafiuary,  and  it  will  be  in 
s«ejson,  at  that  time,  for  them  to  fix,  defimtively,  the  name  and 
style  of  tbe  new  Slate,  provided  the  Constitution  is  rejected. 
He  was  theiefore  opposed  to  the  motion. 

Mr.  Holmes  said,  he  was  lor  having  a  separate  Committee, 
and  not  for  referring  the  subject  to  the  same  Committee  that 
was  to  report,  tbe  Constitution.  That  Committee,  said  be,  can 
meet  with  no  difficulty  in  fran-ine  a  Constitution  and  leaving  a 
blank  for  the  name  and  style.  Tbe  provisions  would  apply  as 
well  to  one  name  as  another.  The  gentleman  hnnself  v^ould 
not  find  it  a  hard  task  to  draft  a  deed,  or  bond,  and  leave  blanks 
to  be  afterwards  filled  up,  by  any  name  it  was  wi.sbed  to  have 
inserted  ;  nor  can  1  imagine  that  any  greater  difficulty  will  be 
found  in  this  case.  The  Constitution  which  we  may  ofifer  to 
tbe  people,  may  be  rejected  ;  but  we  are  to  be  a  separate  state 
at  all  events  ;  and  I  sFiould  be  sorry  to  leave  tbe  District  of 
Muine,  a  thing  without  a  name.  I  hope,  Sir,  we  shall  always 
have  a  name,  and  a  respectable  name.  We  must  apply  to  Con- 
gress for  adnijssion  into  the  Union  ;  but  if  we  have  no  name, 
but  that  included  in  the  Constitution,  and  that,  together  with 
the  rest  of  the  instrument,  should  be  rejected  by  the  people,  by 
what  name  shall  the  application  be  made  ?  In  what  name  shall 
we  be  admitted  ?  I  should  be  very  sorry,  (said  Mr.  H.)  that 
we  should  be  admitted  in  blank.  And  as  a  name  must  be 
adopted  in  case  of  the  rejection  of  tbe  Constitution,  I  hope  the 
Convention  will  provide  us  with  a  name. 

Mr.  Whitman  ^id,  tie  ground  I  took  in  my  former  obser- 
vations, remains  unshaken.  No  constitution  ever  was  framed, 
without  containing  the  name  of  the  State,  for  which  it  was  made. 
It  would  savor  of  absurdity,  ^o  su'^mit  to  the  people  a  constitu- 
tion that  does  not  contain  tbe  name  of  tbe  State.  I  do  not  feel 
the  difficulty  of  applying  to  Congress,  mentioned  by  the  gentle- 
man from  Alfred.  The  Congress  ot  the  United  States  will  net 
admit  a  State  into  the  Union,  until  they  have  ihe  form  of  gov- 
ernment l?efor€  them.      The  United  States  are  bound  to  guar- 


aritee  to  each  state  a  republican  form  of  government ;  they  must 
therefore  have  the  fra'iie  of  government  ot  the  propose!  state, 
presented  to  ihem.  If  the  people  reject  the  constiiunon,  the 
Convention  may,  at  the  January  Session,  give  the  stale  a  new 
name.  And  as  the  constitution  of  Masachusetts,  must  then  be 
our  constitution,  this  is  what  the  Convention  will  prf-sent  to 
Congress,  as  the  constitution  of  the  new  slate,  for  the  adaiis^ion 
of  which  into  the  Union,  application  is  to  be  made.  And  w^th 
this,  we  may  present  the  name,  that  may  be  agreed  on  in 
Convention. 

Mr.  EtDery,  of  Portland,  said,  I  think  the  matter  in  debate 
is  a  mere  question  of  expediency.  I  see  no  «>bjection  to  the 
course  recommended  by  either  gentleman.  The  Convention 
must  meet  here  again  in  January  uj  xt.  if  the  const iiution  is 
rejected,  when  it  is  returned  to  the  Convention,  they  may  re- 
consider 'he  name  they  have  given  to  the  state,  and  give  il  a 
new  name.  I  see  no  connexion  between  the  style  and  title  of, 
the  sate,  and  the  great  principles  of  the  constitution.  I  will 
therefore  second  the  jnotion  for  the  appointment  of  a  committee 
to  report  a  name,  which  if  accepted  by  the  Convention,  may  be 
communicated  to  the  committee,  which  is  to  prepare  the  frame 
of  government. 

Ml.  Preble.  Mr.  President,  I  feel  it  my  duty,  without  re- 
peating the  observations  1  have  already  made  to  explain  briefly 
to  the  Convention,  my  reasons  for  bringing  the  subject  before 
them  at  this  time,  and  proposing  a  reference  to  a  select  com- 
mittee. On  any  event,  a  name  must  be  given  to  the  state  by 
the  Convention. 

The  Convention  by  a  distinct  Act^  first  determine  the  style 
and  title  of  the  new  Stale.  The  style  and  titfe  thus  fixed  and 
determmed,  they  will  of  course  insert  in  the  constitution  submit- 
ted to  the  people.  If  that  constitution  should  be  rejected,  the 
constitution  of  Massachusetts,  with  the  style  and  title  here  de- 
termined, will  be  the  constitution  of  Maine.  I  have  heard  much 
conversation  on  the  subject  ot  the  name,  and  believe  there  is  a 
variety  of  opinions.  A  select  committee  could  bring  the  ques- 
tion before  the  Convention,  before  the  committee  on  the  con- 
stilution  will  have  tithe  to  report.  It  may  be  discussed  and  de- 
cided upon  in  convention,  while  otherwise  there  will  be  no  busi- 
ness before  us.  We  then  shall  be  ready  to  enter  on  the  great 
principles  of  the  constitutions  and  not  be  stopped  and  delayed  at 
the  threshold  J  by  a  long  discussion  on  a  name.  My  object  w®s  tc 


44 

expedite  business  ;  for  however  it  may  be  with  us,  (o  our  con- 
stituents in  this  ca^e  lime  is  money.  Gentlemen  have  ar- 
gued ihe  j)()njt,  as  though  it  was  one  of  great  importance,  and 
urged  that  it  should  be  referred  to  the  coiiuiiiliee  fur  drafting 
the  constituiion,  with  as  much  zeal,  as  if  they  thought  a  less 
number  was  not  to  be  trusted  to  report  a  name  for  the  btate.  It 
may,  I  thidk,  be  safely  confided  to  a  smaller  committee,  I 
sh(H>hl  propose  that  the  oommillee  consist  of  nine,  to  be  taken, 
one  frutn  each  county. 

Mr.  Baldwin,  of  Mercer,  was  strongly  oppo«e'J  to  the  motion. 
I  consider  it,  said  he,  as  beiongmi^,  oi  right,  to  the  committee 
for  framing  the  constitution.  I  tliink  the  name  an  important 
thing,  and  that  the  people  have  a  right  to  act  en  that  as  well  as 
on  any  othei  part  of  the  constitui.on. 

Judge  Thacher  observed,  that  he  was  In  favor  of  the  motion. 
I  do  not  think  it  of  great  importance,  said  the  Judge,  but  it  is 
the  proper  and  regular  way  to  proceed,  to  refer  this  subject  ta 
a  select  conunitlee.  I  cannot  conceive  how  the  rights  of  any 
other  committee  will  be  violated  by  it,  and  least  of  all,  can  I 
conceive  how  the  rights  of  a  committee,  which  is  not  in  exist- 
ence, can   be  invaded. 

Judge  Dana,  ol  Fryeburgb.  Mr.  President,  I  rise  Sir,  to  op- 
pose the  resolution  of  the  gentlemau  from  Portland,  because  I 
can  see  no  sufficient  reason  why  we  should  pass  it--We  have, 
Sir,  after  some  altercation,  and  the  exprt-s>ion  of  a  great  variety 
of  opinions,  at  length  come  to  the  conclusion  to  appoint  a  large 
atid  respectable  committee,  coming  tr.m  each  county,  to  draft  a 
constitution — a  committee  selected  from  the  whole  Convention} 
for  their  intelligence,  wisdom  and  integrity  ;  and  why  should  we 
take  a  part  of  the  constitution,  the  ''sty  ie  and  title,"  and  commit 
it  to  a  different  committee  ?  Is  not  the  name,  or  the  style  and  title, 
a  component  part  of  the  constitution  ?  and  deserving  of  as  much 
aonsiJeration  as  any  other  part  of  ii  ?  If  we  divide  the  subject — 
and  commit  a  part  of  it, the  style  ^^  title,  to  a  select  committee — 
why  not  go  further  and  commit  other  parts  to  other  committees, 
viz.  the  Bill  of  Rights  to  one  ;  the  Legislative  Branch  to  another  ; 
be  Executive  to  another,  and  so  on  ;  <S^  divide  the  different  paits 
among  different  committees  ?  1  hope,  Sir,  as  we  have  at  length 
come  to  the  det€rmination  to  appoint  a  large  committee  consis- 
ting of  33  of  our  best  and  most  discreet  members,  to  form  and 
report  a  Constituiion,  that  we  shall  submit  the  whole  subject  to 
ihem  ;  instead  of  selecting  a  special  committee  for  that  purpose. 

The  vote  was  thtn  taken  and  decided  in  the  affirmative. 


45 

Resolved,  That  a  Committee  consisting  of  nine  members  be 
appointpd  to  con-i  ler  and  report  lo  the  convention  a  proper 
style  and  title  for  the  new  State. 

Voted^  That  the  Secretary  be  authorised  to  employ  a  Clerk 
to  assist  him  in  the  duties  of  bis  office. — James  L.  Child,  Esq. 
TVi^s  appointed. 

Voted,  That  the  Sf^cretary  be  authorized  to  cause  a  sufficient 
number  of  the  rules,  ^c,  to  be  printed  for  the  use  of  ihe  mem- 
bers. 

Afternoon. — The  President,  agreeably  to  the  rules  and  or- 
ders, proceeded  to  nominate  the  several  committees,  v^rhich  had 
been  determined  on,  which  nominations  were  severally  ap- 
proved. 

Committee  on  ihe  Constitution  of  the  proposed  JVew  State. 

FOAiT.— Htm.  Mr.  Holmes,  of  Altred,  Mr  Dane,  ot  Wells, 
Hon.  Mr.  Moody,  of  Saco,  Hon.  Mr.  Kice,  of  Kittery,  Mr. 
Marston,  of  Parsonsfield. 

CUMBERLAND.'— Wm.  Mr.  Whitman,  and  Hon.  Judge 
Parris,  of  Portland,  Hon.  Mr.  Lewis,  ofGorham,  Col.  Foxcrwft, 
of  New-Gioucester,  Hon.  Mr.  Page,  of  Brunswick. 

LIJVCOLjV.— Gail.  Wingate,  of  Bath,  Mr.  Dole,  of  Alna, 
Mr,  Head,  of  VValdoborough,  Mr.  Rose,  of  Boolbbay,  and  Mr. 
Neal,  of  Litchfield. 

Kt:jyjVEBECK,-^Uon.  Mr.  Chandler,  of  Monmouth,  Hon. 
Judge  Bridge,  of  Augusta,  Rev.  Mr.  Francis,  of  Leeds,  Mr. 
Redington,  of  Vassalborough,  and  Gen.  Wellington,  of  Fairfax. 

H AM  ^OCK.— Mr.  Johnson,  of  Belfast,  Mr!  Hall,  of  Frank- 
fort, and  Mr.  Johnson,  of  Jackson. 

^./3.S///^'G7'OA''.— Hon.  Judge  Campbell,  of  Harrington, 
and  Mr   Dickinson,  of  Machias. 

OXFORD Hon.  Judge    Dana,    of  Fryeburg,    Rev.    Mr. 

Hooper,  of  Pari-?,  and  Gen.  Turner,  of  Turner. 

SOMERSf^JT.'-Gen.  Kendall,  of  Fairfield,  Mr.  Allen,  of 
Norridgevvock.  and  Mr.  Baldwin,  of  Mercer. 

PEkOBSCOT.-'Msjor  Treat,  of  Bangor,  and  Mr.  Wilkins, 
of  Orrington. 

Committee  to  make  applications  to  Congress . 

Hon.  Judge  Green,  of  South  Berwick,  Hon  Judge  Cony,  of 
Augusta,  Hon.  Judge  Ames,  of  Bath,  Mr.  Jarvis,  of  Surry,  and 
Hon.  Mr.  Clap,  of  Portland. 

Committee  on  Elections, 

Hon.  Judge  Thacher,  of  Biddeford,  Mr.  Emery,  of  Portland, 


46 

Mr.  Burnham,  of  Unity,  Mr.  Virgin,  of  Rumford,  and  Mr.  Dear- 
born, of  Halluwell. 

Committee  on  thi  style  and  title  of  the  JVezv  State, 

Mr.  Preble,  of  Portland,  Mr  Allen,   ofSjhlord,  Mr.  Wood, 
of  Wi^casset,  Mr   Culler,  o(  Farmington,  Mr   S'etson,  of  H^rn- 
den,  Mr.    Abhol,   of  Castine,    Mr.   Chandler,    of   Paris,   Mr. 
French,  of  Si.  Albans,  and  Mr  Vance,  ol  Calais. 
Committee  on  Leave  of  Absence 

Mr.  Moody,  of  Hallowell,  Mr.  Herrick,  of  Bowdoinhao),  and 
Mr.  Wood,  of  Lebanon. 

Committee  on  the  Pay  Roll. 

Gen.  Iri^b,  of  Gorbam,  xMr.  Thacher,  of  Saco,  and  Col. 
Reed,  of  Waldoborouiih. 

Ordered — That  the  returns  of  the  members,  and  the  remon- 
strances against  elections,  be  placed  in  the  hands  of  the  Coiift- 
Hiittee  on  Elections. 

A  remonstrance  against  the  election  of  Samuel  Davis,  of 
Goldsborougb,  was  committed. 

Voted^  That  the  Sergeant  at  Arms  be  directed  to  provide  a 
suitable   apartment   for  the  committee  on  the  Constitution. 

A  commu/iication  was  received  from  the  Office  of  the  Secre- 
tary of  the  State,  containing  a  list  of  th<»  returns  of  votes  on 
Separation,  and  the  Governor's  Proclamation,  declaring  the 
vote  to   have  been  obtained. 

Which  was  ordered  to  lie  on  the  table. 

WEDNESDAY,    OCT.    13. 

On  motion  of  Judge  Green,  it  w?»s 

Resolved,  That  a  committee  of  three  be  appointed  to  take 
into  consideration  and  report  upon  the  necessary  expenditures 
of  the  Convention,  exclusive  of  the  pay  roll  : — and  the  Hon. 
Mr.  Gage,  of  Augusta,  Mr.  Shepiey,  of  Saco,  and  Mr.  llsley,  ot" 
Portland,  were  a{)pointed. 

A  remonstrance  against  the  election  of  Joseph  Neally,  of 
Monroe,  was  read  anu  committed  to  the  Committee  on  Elec- 
tions. 

Judge  Thacher,  Chairman  of  the  cotnmittee  on  Elections, 
moved,  that  the  committee  have  leave  to  sit  during  the  session 
of  the  convention. 

Mr.  VVallingford,  of  Wells,  considered  it  unnecessary  to  pas5 
such  a  vote,  as  it  is  usual  in  deliberative  assemblies,  for  com- 
mittees to  retire  at  their  pleasure. 


47 

Judge  Tbachfir  said,  I  do  not  profess  to  be  much  accustomed 
to  the  u>agesof'deliberative  assembiies  ;  but  I  Uunk  every  mem- 
ber of  the  Convention  ::bouId  be  in  bi3?eat,  unless*  he  have  leave 
of  absence 

Judge  Green  observed,  It  has  been  usual  in  the  House  of 
Reprfierjtatives  of  Uiis  Commonwealth,  for  commiltees  to  retire 
without  leave.  But  ih^y  retired  to  apartments  in  the  same 
building,  and  could  be  called  in  at  ar^y  lime.  Perhaps  this  case 
is  diffen;nt,  as  they  will  be  under  the  necessity  of  leaving  the 
bouse.  It  is  proper  the  Conveniion  should  know  where  to  send 
for  them.     Leave  was  granted. 

Judge  Thacher  moved,  *hat  the  member  from  Dearborn, 
who  IS  also  Town  Clerk,  »nd  had  oniitted  to  sign  the  certificate 
of  his  return,  should  have  leave  to  certify,  as  required  by 
the  law. 

Mr.  VVallingford  observed,  the  law  will  not  authorize  the 
Convention  to  this  effect.  The  certificate  should  have  been 
made  in  open  town  meeting. 

Juilge  Green  said,  the  member  has  an  unquestionable  right 
to  make  the  amendment  proposed,  at  any  time,  widiout  leave. 
His  situation  is  peculiar — it  is  necessary  fur  him  to  certify 
for  himself.  It  was  his  modesty  that  prevented,  and  a  man 
ought  not  to  suffer  for  his  modesty.  So  excellent  a  (juality 
ought  to  be  regarded  wherever  found.  I  hope  the  Convention 
will  not  put  the  member  to  the  trouble  of  ohtaining  a  new  cer- 
tificate, when  the  present  one  may  be  perfected  in  a  moment. 
1  will  therefore  second  the  motion. 

Hon.  Judge  Cony,  of  Aui^usta.  I  conceive,  Mr.  President, 
it  would  be  highly  improper  for  the  Conveirion  to  alter  or 
amend  any  paper  which  may  be  presented  to  it.  We  ought 
n.it  to  interfere,  as  we  cannot  give  the  p:jwer  that  is  a^ked  for. 
If  the  member  can  amend,  he  can  do  it  as  well  wiihout  consent 
as  with  it.  I  hope  Sir,  the  Convention  will  take  no  order  o» 
the  su(>ject.   We  may  find  it  a  troublesome  precedent. 

Judge  Thacher  said,  it  would  be  improper  in  the  committee 
to  suffer  any  alterations  to  be  made  in  papers,  without  leave  of 
the  Convention,  from  whom  they  received  the  pa{>ers,  for  liiere 
may  be  a  remonstrance,  and  the  alteration  vvouid  then  be  called 
a  forgery. 

Judge  Green  observed,  the  members  of  the  Legislature  have 
bad  leave  to  amend  their  certificates,  and  to  have  thetn  prop- 
erly certified  at  the  adjourned  sesjion.     Jf  we  give  the  member 


48 

leave,  it  will  save  him  the  trouble  of  getting  a  new'copy  of  the 
record,  and  c^n  do  no  injury.  I  therefore  hope  it  will  be 
granted. 

The  motion  passed  in  the  affirmative. 

On  motion  oi  Judi;e  Cony,  Resolved^  that  Col.  Tre-cot,  of 
Lubec,  Mr.  VVallmgtord,  of  Wells,  and  Mr.  Tucker,  of  Bristol, 
be  a  comiitittee  to  consider  and  report  what  other  RCts,  resolves 
and  other  do  unients,  it  may  be  proper  to  ohtain  from  the  office 
of  the  8<creUry  of  the  Commnnwealth  of  Massachusetts. 

S-verd  mt^inbers  bad  leave  rf  alis^nce  until  Monilay. 

Jijternoon. — On  moiiun  of  Mr  Kmgsbery,  of  Gardiner^ 
it  was 

Resolved^  That  a  committee  of  nine,  be  appointed  to  consid- 
er and  report  whit  compensation  shall  be  allowed  the  members 
of  the  Conventit)n  ;  and  Alessrs.  Low,  of  Lyman,  Adams,  of 
Gorham,  Locke,  of  Cheslerville,  Steele,  of  Browrifield,  Tuttle, 
of  Canaan.  Spear,  of  Thoinaston,  Afherlon,  of  Prospect,  Leon- 
ard, of  Brewer,  and  Burgin,  of  Eastport,  were  appoir)ted. 

A  petiti  )n  of  S.  Hayward,  and  olhers,  relating  to  exemptions 
from  Military  services,  was  committed  to  the  committee  on  the 
constitution 

Resolved,  That  a  committee  of  Finance  be  appointed  to  de- 
vise ways  and  means  fodetVc^y  the  expences  of  the  convention, 
should  they  exceed  the  amount  received  from  the  Treasury  of 
tUt  Commonvvealth.  Messrs.  Clapp  and  ll^ley,  of  Portland, 
and  Mr*  Dearliorn    of  Hallowell,  were  appoi'ited  a  committee. 

The  committee  to  whom  was  committed  the  subject  of  the 
style  and  title  of  the  new  state,  reported  An  Ordinance^  deter- 
mmmg  that  it  should  be  called  the 

COMMON\\EaLTH  of  MAINE. 

On  motion  of  Mr  Dearborn,  of  Hallovvell,  tomorrow  at  10 
o'clock,  was  assigned  for  taking  the  report  into  consideration. 

AJjourned. 


TnuRfDAY,  Oct.  14. 

Asreeably  to  assignment  the  Convention  took  up  the  report 
of  the  style  and  title  of  the  new  state. 

Judge  Th.cher,  Uioved  to  postpone  the  consideration  of  the 
sul>je<t,  until  the  committee  on  the  constitution  should  make 
their  Report,  that  they  might  be  present  at  the  discussion. 

Mr.  Wallingfoid,  gave  ?ome  reasons  for  seconding  the  motion, 

Mr.  Preble,  expressed  his  sense  of  the  necessity  of  proceeding 


49 

Mr.  Preble  expressed  his  sense  of  the  necessity  of  proceed- 
ing to  the  discussion.  It  is  very  important,  said  Mr.  P.  to  save 
the  time  of  the  Convention.  Every  subject,  however  unim- 
portant, which  has  hitherto  been  brought  before  this  body,  has 
undergone  considerable  discussion  ;  and  considerable  time  will 
probably  be  consumed  on  this  subject.  Shall  we  iheu  di^l^y 
this  discussion,  on  business  of  less  importance,  ui»iii  we  are 
called  on  to  act  upon  that  of  nauch  greater  injpctf  nee — the 
principles  of  the  Conslilution  itself  ?  It  ha.^  bct-n  stated,  as 
one  reawjn  for  (he  postponement,  that  the  Commiliee  lor  fram- 
ing the  Constitution,  ha\e  had  this  subject  before  thorn.  Sir, 
it  is  not  to  be  piesumea  they  have  undertaken  to  decide  upon 
what  was  not  committed  tu  ibem.  Sir,  I  can  conceive  of  no 
important  reason  for  the  postponement.  If  needs  ijo  spirit  of 
pioi)hecy  to  fure-eil,  Irorn  the  expt  lience  we  have  ;»iready  iiaJ, 
ti)at  the  tin.e  taken  up  in  this  c»)nvention  will  be  mucii  pioiract- 
ed.  We  sit  here,  Sir,  al  an  expense,  of  little  less  than  five 
thousand  dollars  a  week;  and  our  constituents,  who  have  this 
to  pay,  will  be  desiions  olknowing  why  we  did  not  proceed  to 
discU'S  the  subject  of  the  style  and  title,,  when,  if  we  do  not 
proceed,  we  must  sit  idle  with  nothing  to  do.  The  motion  to 
postpone  was  negatived. 

Mr.  Moody,  of  Hallowell,  moved  that  the  report  might  be 
accepted. 

Mr.  Parsons,  of  Edgecnmb,  moved  to  amend  the  report,  by 
stiikng  out  the  word  Commonzveaith,  anu  inserting  State,  on  ac- 
count of  the  saving  ot  lime  and  expense  in  wri;ing  and  print- 
ing. 

The  motion  was  seconded  by  Mr.  Allen,  of  Sanford,  tor  simi- 
lar reasons. 

Mr.  Waliingford  expressed  himself  in  favor  of  (he  word  State, 
It  is,  said  he,  the  conmion  de^gnation  of  most  of  (he  States. 
But  one  State  ha*  been  admitted  into  the  Union,  since  (he  adop. 
tionof  the  constitution,  with  the  style  of  Co  nmonvve  .l(h.  Ver- 
mont has  that  of  Commonwealth  or  State.  There  is  uo  prp? 
vision  in  the  federal  Constitution  for  admitting  a  Com.non- 
weallh  into  (he  Union.  There  seems  to  be  no  good  reason  tur 
preiejring  Comnnauvealth.  The  word  State  is  equally  good 
and  more  convenient. 

Mr.  Cutler,  of  Farmington,  rose  to  explain  the  reasons  which 
inflnenced   the  ^CommiKee,    in    deciding  in  favor  of  Common- 
wealth.    The   word,  he    observed,  has  more  frequently  been 
5 


50 

used  ;  is  more  consonant  to  onr  fef^Iings.  and  we  are,  in  Fome 
measure,  attached  to  it.  Tlie  Cori'miifee  thought  it  mort  pro- 
per to  retain  it,  as  we  had  so  Uma:  been  accustomed  to  it,  and 
ieit  a  kind  (tf  pride  in  the  designation.  It  is  not  a  subject,  hov^- 
ever,  ofmucfj  argument,  but  railier  ot  feehng  and  opinion. 

Judge  Cdvy  said,  he  thoug;ht  the  motion  susceptible  of  a  divi- 
sion, and  wislied  (he  question  to  he  taken  on  the  amendment. 

Mr.  Preble  One  thing  was  omitted  by  ti)e  gentleman  from 
Farmington,  in  his  remarks,  which  influenced  the  Con^mittee  in 
their  decision.  Much  inconvenience  will  be  experienced  by 
the  change.  All  our  constables,  sheriffs,  town  officers  and  oth- 
ers, are  in  the  habit  of  using  and  writing  the  word  Common- 
wealth, and  if  you  alter  it  to  State,  many  n.i.stakes  will  be 
Kiade.  I  think  there  ?re  reasons  for  retaining  it,  even  on  the 
score  of  economy. 

The  name  of  Commonwealth  continued  Mr.  P.  seems  to  de- 
signate our  civil  polity.  It  belongs  to  us,  as  much  as  to  those 
from  whom  we  separate.  It  is  a  name  of  the  revolution,  and 
our  feelings  are  therefore  ccnnected  with  it.  It  seems  also  to 
be  a  title  more  respectable.  As  to  what  is  said  of  ( ther  new 
States  adopting  the  name  ot  State,  it  is  no  example  for  us. 
They  have  been  formed  ot  Territories,  and  never  were  a  part 
of  a  Commonwealth.  They  are  a  new  people,  as  well  as  a  new 
State.  We  are  comparatively  an  older  people,  and  i  part  ofan 
old  Commonwealth 

Mr.  Adams,  of  Gorham.  I  l)ope.  Sir,  the  motion  to  strike  out 
the  word  Commonwealth  will  not  prevail.  Commonwealth, 
united  with  Maine,  will  sound  much  better  than  State.  I  am 
not  sure  I  should  vote  for  the  word  Maine,  unless  it  is  to  be 
coupled  with  Commonwealth 

Judge  Cony.  Mr  President,  I  lise  to  express  my  approba- 
tion of  the  style  ot  Commonwealth.  I  look*  Sir,  with  much  ven- 
eration on  die  men  who  formed  the  Constitution  (,f  Massachu- 
setts. This  State  is  now  to  be  divided  ;  and  we  carry  with 
us  an  equal  right  to  all  its  privileges,  and  among  them  that  of 
'je  name  ol  Commonwealth,      lam    not    much    intpvorofthe 

ord  Maine,  but  am  decidedly  in  f?vor  of  Commonwealth  as 
connected  wilh  it,  and  therefore  hope  the  motion  will  not  pre- 
vail. 

Judge  Thacher.     I  do  not  think  this  is  a  subject  of  great  im- 

jitance.     There  is  indeed  some  objection  to  the  word  Com- 

on wealth,  on   the  score  of  its  length.     Towns  have,  in   some 


51 

instances,  felt  the  inconvenience  of  having  long  names.  The 
towns  which  were  incorporated  with  the  names  of  Pepperelbor- 
ough  and  Pownalborough,  have  since  had  them  chaRged  to  Sa- 
co  and  Dresden,  on  this  account.  And  inasmuch  as  it  will  be 
easier  to  write  State,  than  Commonwealth,  I  should  rather  pre  • 
fer  it. 

Mr.  Walliiigford,  in  reply  to  the  gentleman  from  Portland, 
said,  that  we  should  be  as  likeJy  to  make  mistakes  in  writing 
Massnchuse'ts  a?  State 

The  motion  to  strtke  out  "  Commonwealtli''  prevailed  ;  119 
being  in  favor,  and  113  against  it. 

ll  was  then  voted  to  Insert  the  word  *'  Staie'^  in  the  room  of 
the  word  strxken  out. 

Mr.  Tucker,  of  Standish,  moved  to  strike  out  the  word 
Maine — for  the  purpose  of  inserting   "  ColumhusJ'^ 

Mr.  Vance  hoped  the  motion  to  strike  o«it  Maine  would 
not  prevail.  It  is  the  name  by  which  we  are  known  in  this 
country  and  in  Europe,  All  our  maps,  our  plans  and  records, 
have  that  name,  as  the  designation  of  the  Territory.  If  it  were 
altered,  perhaps  half  a  century  would  pass  away,  before  the 
new  name  were  as  well  known.  It  is  suitable  for  us  to  retain 
this  name,  as  for  many  purposes  we  shall  he  the  main  State  in 
the  Union  ;  and  as  the  original  records  of  the  province  have 
this  title,  he  hoped  it  would  not  be  altered. 

Mr.  Jarvis,  of  Surry,  hoped  the  motion  would  prt^vail  ;  and 
there  was  one  word,  which  upon  the  principle  of  economy, 
would  be  a  good  substitute,  li  was  an  old  name,  and  might  be 
found  in  the  Bible,  and  was  composed  but  o{  two  letters,  which 
were  A-i. 

Judge  Ames,  of  Bath,  wished  to  give  some  reasons  for  call- 
ing in  the  committees  to  vote  on  the  su?>ject.  It  is  a  matter  of 
comparative  indifference  to  me,  said  he,  what  is  the  name  or 
style  of  the  State.  'But  it  is  apparent  that  a  deep  interest  is 
taken  in  th's  question,  and  the  members  of  the  committees  will 
be  desirous  of  expressing  an  opinion  upon  it.  They  compose 
a  part  of  this  Convention  as  much  as  the  members  now  present. 
I  therefore  consider  it  the  duty  of  the  Convention  to  give  them 
an  opportunity  of  acting  on  important  subjects,  and  that  no 
question  should  hav^  been  taken  on  this  subject,  until  they 
were  present  to  act  with  the  Convention.  I  was  desirous  of 
having  it  postponed,  to  give  them  the  privilege  of  debating, 
and  voting  upon  it ;  and  I  think  it  strictly   pro:>er,  that    they 


52 

should  be  called  in  for  that  purpose.  It  is  a  matter  of  impor- 
tance to  Ihein  and  to  the  people  of  Maine.  I  therefore,  move, 
that  after  the  close  of  the  debate  on  this  subject,  and  before  the 
final  question  h  taken,  the  several  committees  be  called  in. 

Judge  Thacher  was  of  opinion,  it  vras  proper  that  in  all  im- 
portant questions,  the  committees  should  be  present ;  but  he 
would  ask  the  Hon.  gentleman,  if  it  was  suitable  to  go  on  and 
disc'iss  a  question,  and  then  call  in  the  committees  to  vote  ?  If 
he  wishes  for  a  postponement,  1  have  no  objection  ;  but  to  dis- 
cuss it  first  and  then  to  postpone  it,  for  the  purpose  of  giving 
them  an  opportunity  o(  voting,  I  can  see  no  advantage  in  it. 

Judge  Cony  was  desirous  that  such  a  decision  should  be  had 
on  this  subject  as  to  prevent  the  necessity  of  calling  in  tha 
committees  ;  and  hoped  it  would  be  postponed,  that  they 
mj^ht   not  be    interrupted,  in  their  arduous  duties. 

Adjourned. 

Jlfternoon. — Voted,  on  their  suggestion,  that  the  committee 
on  the  subject  of  obtaining  documents,  S^c.  from  the  Office  of 
Secretary  of  the  State,  be  authorized  to  enquire  what  documents 
it  will  be  proper  to  obtain  from  the  office  of  the  Secretary  of  the 
United  Slates. 

Judgf  G-reen,  n;oved  that  the  subject  of  the  style  and  titk  of 
{lie  Slate,  be  postponed  until  the  committee  on  the  constitution 
can  conveniently  attend. 

Mr.  Adams,  of  Gorham,  seconded  the  motion  ;  he  thought  it 
ot  sutficient  importance  to  induce  the  Convention  to  wait  for 
the  aid  of  those  gentlemen. 

Mr.  Preble  observed,  he  had  authority  to  state,  that  the  com- 
mittee would  be  in  this  afternoon  to  report  in  part. 

Judge  Green  had  no  objection  to  its  lying  on  the  table, 
provided  it  should  not  be  taken  up  at  a  time  to  interrupt  the 
important  labors  of  the  committee. 

Voicd^  That  the  report-lie  on  the  table. 

Remonstrances  against  the  electiun  of  Mr.  Vance,  of  Calais, 
Mr.  Whitney,  of  Linculnvilie  and  Mr.  Norton,  of  New-Port- 
land, were  commiited  to  the  committee  on  elections. 

Judge  Thacher,  Chairman  of  the  committee  on  elections, 
reported  in  part  ;  that,  on  examining  the  law,  the  clause  relat- 
ing to  elections,  seemed  to  require,  that  it  should  appear  that 
the  selectmen  presided  at  the  meeting  ;  and  thai  in  many  of 
tlie  rolurns,  il  does  not  appear  who  presided  at  the  meeting  ; 
■  or  that  a  declaration   thereof  was  i^ade  in  town  meeting;  but 


53 

.nastnuch  as  it  sufficiently  appears  that  the  meelitigs  were  legal- 
ly held,  and  a  ceriificale  of  their  elections  fnade,  the  committee 
are  of  opinion,  that  they  are  sufficiently  formal  to  entilie  the 
members  to  their  seats,  with  certain  exceptions. 

Mr.  Preble  moved,  that  the  report  be  recommitted  to  the 
committee  to  report  on  the  cases  in  which  there  were  remon- 
strances. ^ 

Mr.  Vance  considered  it  unnecessary  to  recommit,  as  if  a  re- 
port were  made  and  accepted,  it  would  prevent  a  seat  being 
vacated,  if  the  remonstrances  were  supported. 

Mr.  Wallifigford  supposed  the  duty  of  the  committee  was 
confined  (o  th  )se  cases,  where  objections  mere  made,  or  remon- 
strances presented,  ag:>inst  the  returns. 

Mr.  Emery,  of  Portland,  said,  it  is  extremely  important  that 
the  coinmittee  should  be  speciiically  instructed  as  to  the  ex- 
tent of  their  duty.  It  was  supposed  by  the  committee  to  be 
their  duty  to  examine  and  report  upon  all  the  returns. 

Judge  Green  observed,  that  the  first  examinati  )n  was  only 
preliminary  to  the  choice  of  a  President.  The  commiltpe  on 
elections  might  have  reported  en  the  cases  only,  in  which  there 
were  remonstrances,  or  they  might  report  as  they  have  done. 
And  he  thought  the  report  should  be  recommitted,  in  order  that 
they  should  attend  to  such  cases  as  they  thmk  have  legal  ob- 
ject ions- or  remonstrances,  and  give  the  parties  a  hearing. 

Voted — To  recommit  the  Report. 

The  Hun.  Mr.  Molmes,  Chairman  of  the  committee  appoint- 
ed to  frame  a  constitution  for  Maine,  entered  the  Convention 
and  a«jked  leave  to  make  a  report  in  part  ; — which  wa?  a  Pie- 
amble  and  D-claratiun  of  Rig-hts,  mikmg  ^he  First  Article  of 
the  Constitution. 

After  reading  the  report,  the  Ciiairman  observed,  that  the 
committee  thought  it  proper  io  rep  )rt  'a  Preafnnie  and  Bill  of 
Rights,  not  for  the  purpose  of  discussion,  or  with  a  view  that 
the  Convention  should  act  upon  it  immediately  ;  but  for  con- 
sideration, and  that  each  member  might  deliberate  upon  it  ia 
private,  and  weigh  its  several  provisions;  and  that  it  was  the 
desire  of  the  committee,  that  it  should  not  be  taken  up,  until 
they  were  present.  He  then  moved,  that  Monday  next,  at  12 
o'clock,  be  assigned  for  taking  it  into  consideration.  He  was 
not,  however,  prepared  to  say,  that  the  committee  would  then 
die  able  to  make  a  report  in  full.     It  was  then 

..fVec^5  That  Monday  ne.Ki,  at  12  o'clock,  be  assigned  fcr.lal- 


54 

ing  the   report  of  the  committee   into   consideration,  and  that 
500  copies  he  printed  tor  the  use  of  the  members. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  Shepley,  ofSaco,  it  was 

Resolved,  That  the  committee  on  Elections  he  directed  to 
examine  all  ihe  relurns  of  the  members  of  this  Convention,  and 
report  who  and  what  members  of  the  Convention  are  duly  elect- 
ed, and  who  are  not  duly  elected,  and  the  reaH)ns  therefor. 

Mr.  WaUmgford  m.'\ed,  that  no  memorial,  remonstrance, 
or  other  evidence  touching  the  returns  of  members,  be  received 
after  to-moirow, 

Mr  Pieble  hoped  the  motion  would  not  prevalL  I  think 
this  course,  said  he,  would  be  too  illiberal.  The  District  of 
TVlame  is  an  extensive  territory — some  members  have  not  yet 
arrived,  and  (here  may  be  other  remonstrances  to  be  presented, 
i  should  think  a  week  or  more  ought  to  be  given,  to  receive  ev- 
idence and  documents  to  substantiate  the  claims  of  members  to 
their  seats — to  counteract  or  support  remonstrances — and  to  re- 
ceive other  remonstrances,  if  any  others  are  intended  to  be  pre- 
sented.— If  we  pass  the  resolution,  submitted  by  the  gentleman 
from  Wells,  we  may  as  well  at  once  say,  that  we  will  hear  no 
evidence. 

Voted,  on  motion  of  Judge  Greene,  that  the  Resolution  lie 
on  the  table.  Adjourned. 

FRIDAY,  OCTOBER  15. 

The  President  stated  the  question  before  the  Convention  to 
be  on  the  report  of  the  committee  for  determining  the  style  and 
title  of  the  new  Stale  as  a«]ended  by  the  Convention  ;  and  it 
should  be  called  the  State  of  Maine. 

Judge  Cony,  of  Augusta,  after  enquiring  whether  he  was  in 
-order,  and  adverting  to  the  subject  on  which  they  were  about 
entering,  that  of  giving  the  future  name  to  the  new  State,  observ- 
ed,  ihal  he  had  no  aversion  to  the  proposed  existing  name — - 
Isis  prepossessions  and  impressions  from  long  habit  were  entire- 
ly in  its  favcr.  But  he  was  led  by  a  view  of  consecrating  the 
(ipv^ning  era  of  the  new  community,  by  rendering  an  act  of  jus- 
lice  long  delayed,  to  propose  as  a  substitute  the  name  of  Co- 
xuMBUS.  By  the  successful  usurpation -of  a  mercantile  adven- 
turer," a  Venetian  manufacturer  of  maps  and  charts,  the  real  dis- 
coverer of  the  new  world  had  been  forever  defrauded  of  the  glo- 
ry which  was  his  due,  of  affixing  his  own  name  to  the  Western 
-continent.     Sir,  what  idea  eilher  great  or  disl^siguished  can  we 


§5 

affix  to  Maine — I  have  not  been  able  to  trace  it  to  any  safistac- 
tory  source — but,  Sir,  the  name  of  Columbus  is  associated  with 
all  that  is  noble— all  that  persevering  fortitude,  or  manly  vinue 
could  bestow  or  bequeath.      The  success  of  bis  voyage  of  dis- 
covery stamped  immortality  on  his  name — on  such  a  name  ihe 
mind  will  always  delight  to  contemplate  ;  and  will  repose  with 
sati.^faction.       The    11  th  of  Octobefj  the  day  on  wluco   this 
Convention  commenced  its  session,  was  the  anniversary  of  that 
on  which    Columbus  first   discovered    signs  of  land,  which  the 
dawn  of  the  following  morning  fully  confirmed. —Judge   Cony 
also  alluded  to  the  late  Ordinance  of  Congress,  by  which  the  new 
national  ships  of  the  line,  were  to  be  named  after  the  different 
States,  in  the  process  of  which,  the  turn  of  Maine    would  come 
late— .but  already,  he  said,  the  finest  ship  in  the  navy,  bore  the 
name  of  Columbus,  and  atter  a  lapse  of  a  few  years  it  would  be 
supposed,  she  was  christened  for  our  State.  The  question,  how- 
ever, he  considered,  was  very  much  a  matter  ol  taste  and  feeling. 
Judge   Thacher    addressed    the   Convention,  by    observing, 
that  as  names  of  things  were  but  sounds  or  words  they  hardly- 
afforded  grounds  or  data  for  much  argument  a  priori,  in  favour 
of  one  over  another;  and  he  acknowledged  he  felt  veryJiltle 
preference  on  that  account.       The  name  of  Columbus/  was 
about  as  grateful  to  his  ear,  as  that  of   Maine  ;  but  he  did  not 
perceive  anv    good  reason   for  the  alteration.      The  teriiitory  / 
now  to  be   made  a  new  State,    and  about  to  take  the  rank  of  W 
nation  abroad,  is  already  very  well  knpwn,  in  the  comnjiereia/ 
world,  by  the  name  of  Maine  ;  which/was  a   good  reaso^  witjt 
him  why  a  new  nan?e  should  not  be  given  it.      The  Dis|trictj4f 
Maine  is  probably  'as  well  known  am(ong  foreign  nations  as  tfie 
state  of  Vermont  ;    which  has  no   commercial  interest  alTid  con- 
nections, and  i«  rather   regarded  ajiiroad  as  a  settleme^it  in  ithe 
wilderness.      To  give  the  new  Stale  any  other  nameihan  lihat 
by  which  its   territory  and    district   has   always  been 
would    tend  to  introduce   some   jlrcertainty   'n  th'^ 
foreigners  respecting  its  geograpical  sit'^-^^i^^ 
time. — He  doubted  whether  th0 
knov^n     by    the     people      in   gr 
Continent  :  and  if  his    name  Wc- 
tb'^  nation,    under  whose  ilag 
doubtful  whether  many  would  ' 
his  di.sct)veries  were  ;  and  tb( 
rr>.n^\  h^  made  to  some   antiof 


56 

bus  IS  more  known  and  more  frequently  spoken  of  in  the  United 
States  than  any  where  else — The  Judge  said,  he  was  not  dispos- 
ed to  deprive  old  Columbus  of  any  honours,  but  he  did  not 
think  that  it  was  among  them  to  give  a  name  to  the  State  of 
Maine.  Coiumbusdid  not  discover  this  part  of  the  continent, 
nor  did  he  know,  as  long  as  he  lived,  that  the  Continent  he  dis- 
covered, extended  to  these  latitudes — This  country  was  first 
diocovered  by  Caboi,  Gosnnid,  and  others-  He  thought  the 
name  of  Columbus,  if  known  abroad  among  the  commercial  na- 
tions, would  more  naturally  carry  the  mind  to  some  part  of 
South  Amr-rica,  or  perhaps  to  the  Columbia  River  far  beyond 
the  Mi^sisippi,  on  the  Western  shores  of  the  Continent.  He 
wished  not  10  break  up  and  derange  the  associations  that  time 
and  business  have  vyell  fixed  in  people's  minds.  The  District 
of  Maine  is  every  where  known  as  to  its  situation,  commerce 
and  products  ;  and  the  State  of  Maine  will  naturally  take  its 
place  in  the  hum^n  mmd— The  mind,  he  observed,  had  its  reg- 
ular laws  of  association,  as  the  material  world  has  its  laws  of 
gravity,  attraction,  ^c.  ;  and  these  associations  were  as  liable 
to  be  disturbed  and  broke. i,  as  the  eletnents  were  to  convulsion 
and  tempests  ;  he  concluded  with  expressing  his  wishes,  that 
his  woithy  friend,  (Dr.  Cony)  whose  ai^e  was  about  the  same  as 
his  own,  might  have  the  plea.«,ure  with  himself  of  passing  the 
remainder  of  their  days  in  peace  and  tranquillity,  under  the 
Old  name  of  M.^me. 

The  motion  for  stritdng  out  Maine  and  substituting  Colum- 
.^us,  was  lost. 

Mr.  Adams,  of  Gorham,  then  moved  a  reconsideration  of  the 
vt  te  of  the  Convention  yesterday  to  amend  the  report  of  their 
coi  imittee  by  striking  out  the  word  Commonwealth  and  insert- 
ii  \  "^tate — with  a  view  to  the  restoration  oi  the  former,  as  it 
wa^  reported.  He  briefly  repeated  the  reasons  which  he  had 
•)  the  former  discussion, 

"^,  of  Edgecorafi,   saw  no  objection  to  the  union  of 

''..%,  common  parlaace,  Maine  would  always 

thould  we  style  it  Co.nmo?2tiye«M  .^ 

<he  name  of  Jonathan,  wheB  it  , 

'',  plain  John  ? 

e    idea  of  the    gent^^man  from 

^  preference   for   either  of  the 

t>t  think  it  of  any  very  great 

'7|3ted  ;  but  still. a  sliglii  i\^- 


57 

Terence  might  be  sufficient  to  turn  the  scale.  There  was  ^ 
greater  facility  in  writing  and  pronouncing  S^^a^c  than  Common^ 
zvealth.  There  was  one  style  applied  in  some  parts  of  the 
union  to  the  solemnity  of  judicial  proceedings  and  another  used 
in  the  familiarity  of  ordinary  conversation.  Virginia.  Penn- 
sylvania and  Kentucky  assumed  the  solemn  style  of  Common- 
wealths,  but  they  were  never  spoken  of  except  as  States.  He 
thought  that  the  Court  language  stiould  be  assimilated  to  the 
common  language,  as  nearly  as  possible.  Nevertheless  if  Com* 
monwealth  should  prevail,  he  would  adhere  to  it  as  long  as  he 
lived. 

Gen.  Chandler,  of  Monmouth,  expressed  his  preference  for 
the  term  Commonwealth  as  being  more  sonorous  and  res- 
pectable. 

Mr.  Moody,  of  Saco,  thought  that  as  the  different  commu- 
nities com[)osing  the  union  were  known  only  as  States — that 
new  members  were  admitted  into  it  as  States — and  that  its  dif- 
ferent sections  were  recognized  by  the  national  executive,  le- 
gislative and  judicial  departments  only  under  that  appellation, 
it  had  better  be  adopted  in  the  present  instance. 

Judge  Dana.  Mr.  President — as  we  have  decided  on  re- 
taming  Alaine,  as  the  name  of  our  new  State,  1  hope  we  shall 
adopt  Commonxi'ealth  in  preference  to  State,  not  merely  be- 
cause the  Constitution  Committee,  o^  which  I  am  a  member, 
as  well  as  the  Committee  selected  for  the  purpose,  have  report- 
ed it  ;  but  because  Commonwealth,  as  connected  with  Maine,  has 
a  more  agreeable  sound  than  State.  Two  monosyllables  or 
short  words,  like  State  oi  Alaine,  do  neither  read  nor  sound  well 
together,  when  applied  to  such  a  subject.  Besides,  we  haveal- 
.ways  been  accustomed  to  tlie  term  Commonwealth  ;  we  h-'ve 
grown  up  under  it,  and  are  habituated  to  its  pronunciation  ;  it  is 
inserted  in  all  our  writs,  executions  and  civil  processes,  and  in 
all  our  indictments  and  criminal  processes  in  our  judicial  pro- 
ceedings. Commonwealth  is  a  more  appropriate  term,  as  it 
better  expresses  the  thing  intended  to  be  named  ;  it  is  a  repub- 
lic, a  government  of  the  people.  State,  whether  by  associa- 
tion or  not,  would  seem  to  be  applicable  to  a  small  territory, 
and  Commonwealth  to  a  large  one  ;  as  the  Commonwealth  of 
Massachusetts,  of  Pennsylvania  and  Virginia  ;  while  small  gov- 
ernments use  the  term  State.  When  we  consider  the  great  ex- 
tent of  our  territory,  more  than  300  miles  in  length,  with  a  sea» 
coast  of  more  than  two  hundred  miles,  and  the  many  oiaratimc 


58 

towns  rapidly  increasing;  in  wealth  and  population,  and  rising 
into  importance  ;  and  when  we  consider  that  in  point  of 
wealth,  commerce  and  navigation,  and  population,  this  must  be 
the  largest  State  east  of  New-York — the  style  and  title  of  State 
of  M  line,  would  seem  'v)  be  inapplicable,  and  not  significant, 
but  rather  s/na// and  diminutive,  when  compared  with  Common- 
wealth of  Maine.  I  hope.  Sir,  we  shall  adopt  the  latter,  which 
will  be  more  appropriate,  will  better  express  our  extensive  ter- 
ritory, population  and  wealth. 

Mr.  Emery,  of  Portland.  It  frequently  happens  that  a  difference 
of  opinion  prevails  on  subjects  from  a  want  of  recollection  of 
the  import  of  phrases  employed  in  discussion.  I  regaid  the 
ter;HS,  State  and  Conamonwealth,  as  nearly  synonymous.  If 
any  gentleman,  however,  should  fear  that  the  adoption  of  the 
term  State  would  occasion  associations  of  insignificancy  fryra 
the  near  connexion  of  two  monosyllables,  it  is  believed  that  upon 
consideration  that  fear  will  vanish.  Should  it  be  found, that 
enough  of  respectability  is  included  in  the  definition  of  the  Word 
in  question,  it  is  hoped  that  the  reluctance  to  retain  it  wiil  be 
dismissed.  As  a  mean  of  quieting  alarm  in  this  matter,  I  would 
beg  leave,  Mr.  President,  to  introduce  the  meanings  of  the  sev- 
eral terms  which  have  been  employed  in  this  discussion.  I 
will  give  their  sense  according  to  some  of  the  best  lexicogra- 
phers^— not  tor  the  purpose  of  critical  examination  :  but  simply 
that  a  correct  estimate  may  be  had  of  the  general  acceptatron 
of  literary  men. 

State — The  definitions  are,  condition,  circumstances  of  nature 
or  fortune,  modification  of  any  thmg,  estate,  signiory,  possession, 
the  community,  the  public,  the  commonwealth  ;  a  republic,  a 
government  wot  monarchical,  rank,  condition,  quality,  solemn 
pomp,  appearance  of  greatness,  dignity,  grandeur;  a  seat  of 
dignity,  the  principal  persons  in  the  government. — What  noble 
associations  !  ! 

Hepuhlic — Commonwealth — state  in  which  the  power  is 
lodged  in  more  than  one. 

Commonwealth — A  polity,  an  established  form  of  civil  life  ; 
the  public,  the  general  body  of  the  people,  a  government  in 
which  the  supreme  power  is  lodged  in  the  people — A  repub- 
lic. 

Our  minds  do  not  always  adopt  the  same  course  of  reasoning 
to  bring  us  to  similar  conclusions.  The  style  and  title  "State,'* 
has  already  been  accepted.     It  is  not  requisite  that  we  should 


59 

develope  the  grounds  for  givine;  it  our  preference.  I  may  how- 
ever remark,  ihat  I  am  not  induced  to  that  preference  from 
the  mere  consideration  of  savins;  lime  and  paper,  in  vpriting. 
BmI  I  can  blame  no  gentleman  tor  preferring  it  on  that  account. 
I  am  satisfied  that  we  never  rmcrht  to  tremble  lest  insignificance 
will  attach  to  the  term.  I  am  sati-fied  that  enough  of  pomp  and 
diijnit)  is  included  in  the  appellation.  We  shall  not  be  deem- 
ed less  a  republic.  And  under  such  a  form  of  government  I 
wish  always  to  live. 

Mr.  Bridge,  of  Augusta,  was  of  opinion  that  the  style  of  Com- 
monwealth best  comported  with  the  brevity  of  Maine,  and  cor- 
responded to  the  slenderness  of  its  sound. 

The  motion  for  reconsideration  was  lost. — 101  being  in  fa- 
vor, and  140  against  it. 

The  report  of  the  Committee  as  amended,  was  then  accept- 
ed as  follows  : 

AN  ORDINANCE 
Determining  the  Styfe  and  Title  of  the  State. 

Be  it  ordain'ed  and  determinkd,  by  the  Delegates  of  the 
people  inhabit mg  the  Territory  now  called  and  known  by  the 
name  of  the  District  of  Maine,  in  Convention  assembled,  that 
provided  the  District  of  Maine  aforesaid  shall,  before  the  fourth 
day  of  March  next,  be  admitted  into  the  Union,  as  a  separate 
'<AX\\\  independent  State,  on  an  equal  f(  oting  with  the  original 
States,  the  said  State  shall  be  known  and  called  by  the  style 
and  title  of  the  STATE  OF  MAINE. 

Ajternnon. — Ordered,  That  all  ordinances,  and  resolves  in 
the  nature  of  ordinances,  passed  by  tht  Convention,  be  signed 
by  the  President  of  the  Convention,  and  attested  by  the  Sec- 
reiary. 

Col.  Atherton  presented  the  petition  of  Gen.  Varnum,  and 
others,  Officers  of  the  2d  Brigade,  12th  Division  of  Militia, 
which,  with  a  petition  from  Jos.  Wing,  and  others,  was  assign- 
ed to  the  Committee  who  have  under  consideration  the  sub- 
ject of  the  Constitution. 

The  comnjiitee  on  the  subject  of  the  pay  roll  of  the  members 
of  this  Convention  for  their  travel  and  attendance,  reported  the 
following  resolution,  which  was  read  and  accepted. 

Resolved^  That  there  be  allowed  and  paid  to  the  members  of 
this  convention,  for  their  travel  and  attendance,  as  follov^s,  to 
wit:  to  each  of  said  meml)ers,  two  dollars  tor  each  twenty 
miles'  travel,  in   going  to  and  returning  from  5aid  convention. 


6& 

and  to  each  of  said  members,  two  dollars  for  each  day's  attend- 
ance thereat. 

Resolved,  That  Mr.  Locke,  of  Chesterville^  Mr.  Sheply,  of 
Saco,  and  Mr.  Herrick,  of  Bowdoinham,  be  a  committee  to 
cansidi^r  and  report  upon  the  manner  of  receiving  the  returns 
from  the  selectmen  of  tlie  several  towns,  and  asses.'sors  of  the  sev- 
eral plantations,  of  the  votes  which  may  be  given  in  for  and 
against  the  constitution  which  may  be  submitted  to  the  people 
for  their  consideration  and  adopti<jn.  Adjourned. 


SATURDAY,    OCTOBER   16. 

Judge  Thacher,  from  the  committee  on  elections,  observed, 
that  the  committee  begged  leave  to  divide  the  report  which  he 
wan  about  to  make,  into  three  parts  ;  the  first  of  which  sliould 
coniprehend  the  returns  from  those  tow^ns  which  were  perfect, 
or  had  on!y  immaterial  defects  ;  the  second  to  include  tlie  re- 
turns which  had  material  defects  in  form,  but  to  which  thtre 
had  been  no  objections  made  ;  and  third,  those  returns  against 
which  remonstrances  had  been  preferred.  This  njethod  of  re- 
poniiig  was  assented  to  on  the  part  of  the  Conveniion,  for  the 
greater  convenience  -and  dispatch  of  business. 

The  Judge  then  reported  that  the  returns  were  all  sufficient- 
ly perfect  except  those  of  15  towns,  viz.  all  from  the  county  of 
Yoik,  were  sufficiently  correct  ;  ail  from  Cumberland,  except 
thrit  from  Stand ish  ;  from  Oxford,  except  those  from  the  towns 
of  Bethel  and  Buckfield  ;  from  Lincoln,  except  those  of  Alna 
and  H(.»pe  ;  from  Kennebec,  except  that  of  Rome  ;  from  S...m- 
erset,  except  those  of  New-Portland  and  Mcrcei  ;  from  Hancock, 
except  those  of  Orlaud,  E  Isworth,  Gooldsboro'  and  Monroe,  and 
from  Washington,  except  that  of  Calais  This  first  part  ol  the  re- 
port expressed  an  opinion  that  the  members  from  all  but  the  ex- 
cepted towns  were  entitled  to  their  seats  io  the  Conventiun— it 
was  then  moved  and  passed  that  the  first  part  of  the  report  be 
ac^e[)ted. 

Judge  Thacher,  then  read  the  second  part  of  the  report, 
which  related  to  ail  the  excepted  towns  above  enumerated,  but 
those  against  which  remonstrances  had  been  made  ;  with  a 
statement  of  the  particular  defects,  which  appeared  upon  their 
returns;  those  defects  were  stated  to  be  rather  Iho^e  of  omis- 
sion and  negligence,  than  of  design  :  in  some,  the  Town  Clerk 
had  omitted  to  sign  the  return,  in  others  the  Selectmen.  The 
committee  merely  reported  the  facts,,  ^vithout  giving  their  opin- 


61 

ion  on   the  subject,  preferring,  as  the  Chairman  observed,  to 
leave  it  unembarrassed  before  (he  whole  Convention. 

Judge  Green,  then  moved  that  the  report  laj  upon  the  table, 
and  that  the  uiembers  from  the  towns  mentioned  in  it,  have 
liberty  to  procure  correct  returns  at  any  time  previous  to  the 
adjournment  of  ihis  Convention  without  day. 

Mr.  Preble  thought  ihe  course  suggested  by  the  gentleman 
from  South  Berwick  was  exposing  the  members  trom  tho^e 
towns  to  unnecessary  trouble.  The  reelects  appeared  to  him 
to  be  mere  matter  of  form,  ar.d  unsubstantial  It  was  stated  in 
the  report  that  the  towns  had  pn  ceeded  perfectlj'  fairly  and 
regularly  in  making  the  electic^ns  ; — itjat  the  members  return- 
ed were  the  persons  chosen,  and  there  was  no  remonstrance 
agamst  theii  holding  their  seals.  These  appeared  to  him  to 
constitute  all  that  was  essential.  The  statute  under  which  the 
Convention  sit,  required  more  ;  but  the  provisions  of  this  statute, 
so  far  as  respects  the  return  of  the  delegates  in,  was  a  copy  from 
the  old  Act,  which  Act,  when  first  reported  as  a  bill  to  the  legis- 
lature, left  the  question  of  the  Separation  to  be  decided  by  the 
Convention.  That  bill  was  amended,  and  the  question  referred 
to  the  people  ;  hut  the  particularity  with  respect  to  the  return  of 
the  n^embers,  though  the  reason  tur  it  had  ceased,  was  p'.  rmit- 
ted  to  remain.  That  particularity  he  thought  ought  now  to  be 
regarded  as  a  mere  mattei  of  form  ;  tha,t  a  liberal  construction 
should  be  given  to  the  provision  ;  and  that  tlie  silling  members 
referred  toshouid  be  declared  entitled  to  their  seals. 

Judge  Green  begged  not  to  be  considered  as  wishing  to  ex- 
pose any  members  of  this  body  to  incjnvenience  or  embarrass- 
ment ;  but  on  the  contrary,  his  object  he  said,  was  to  obviate 
difficulty,  by  allowing  those  members  to  sit  during  this  session, 
and  on  their  return  home  to  have  th^ir  election  certified  in  due 
form  for  the  meeting  after  the  adjourniRent. 

Judge  'i'hacher  observed,  that  if  this  motion  should  not  pre- 
vail, or  if  the  gentleman  should  withdraw  it,  he  would  move 
that  those  members  should  be  admitted  freely  to  their  seats. 
He  made  some  pertinent  and  liberal  remarks  on  the  sul'ject, 
arud  Judge  Green  withdrew  his  motion,  remarking  that  llie 
'ion.  Judge's  suggestion  and  resolution  completely  met  his 
views.      It  was  then  on  motion  of  Judge  Thacher, 

Resolved^  Thai  the  members  from  the  towns  mentioned  in 
the  secon-1  part  of  the  report  be  considered  as  legally  chosen  to 
this  convention. 

6 


62 

Judge  Thacber  then  resumed  bis  report,  and  read  tbe  third 
part  which  comprehended  the  returns,  against  which  ihere  had 
been  remonstrances.  The  first  remonstrance  considered,  was 
that  of  certain  inhabitants  of  Gouldsborough,  against  the  elec- 
tion of  Samuel  Davis,  who  had  formerly  been  a  resident  in  that 
town,  but  had  sold  his  property  previously  to  bis  election,  and 
had  moved  from  chat  place. 

The  committee  reported  that  he  was  notwilhstanding  entitled 
to  his  seat.     Accepted. 

The  next  remonstrance  was  against  tbe  election  of  Joseph 
Nealy,  from  the  town  of  Monroe.  The  reasons  stated  in  the 
lemonstrance  were,  that  said  Nesly  was  elected  by  a  plurality 
of  two  votes,  and  that  there  were  two  votes  given  in  by  per- 
sons who  w^ere  not  inhabitants  of  Monroe,  and  not  entitled  to 
vote.  It  appeared  to  tbe  committee,  that  one  vote  was  given 
in  by  a  non- resident,  but  through  ignorance,  he  supposing  him- 
self to  have  a  right  so  to  do.  With  respect  to  the  other  case, 
there  was  no  evidence  before  the  comrri'tee  but  that  be  was  en- 
titled to  vote  ;  they  therefore  cc  uld  not  consider  the  latter  as 
an  illegal  vote.  Tbe  said  Joseph  Nealy  then  was  elected  by  a 
majority  of  one  vote.  The  committee  were  therefore  of  opin- 
ion that  tbe  illegal  vote  being  cast  through  ignorance,  and  not 
with  fraudulent  intention,  that  the  silting  member  from  that 
town  is  duly  elected  :  And  it  was  so  resolved. 

Tbe  third  cate  was  that  of  William  Vance,  Esq.  returned  a 
member  from  Calais.  It  appeared  that  Mr.  Vance  was  not  an 
inhabitant  of  Calais,  but  lived  on  an  unincorporated  pk  nla- 
tion  adjoining.  Judge  Thacber  said  the  committee  agreed  up- 
on ibe  facts  in  this  case,  but  were  divided  upon  tbe  law  result- 
ing from  them  ;  they  therefore  did  n6t  wish  to  express  an 
opinion  in  this  report  on  the  law,  but  preferred  thai  as  it  w^s 
an  important  case,  it  should  be  (iiscussed  and  f^ettled  by  tbe 
whole  body.  Tbe  question  therefore  before  the  Conventiori 
under  this  part  ot  ttie  report  was,  can  a  member  be  It  gaily  le- 
turned  a  delegate  to  this  convention,  who  is  riot  an  inbabitant 
of  tbe  town  from  which  be  is  returned  ? 

Judge  Thacber,  in  order  to  bring  tlie  subjrct  properly  be- 
fore the  Convention, 'moved  that  Wm.  Vance,  Esq.  be  consid- 
ered as  legally  returned  a  member  of  this  Con\eniion  from  Ca- 
lais. To  support  this  motion  be  observed,  tltat  (he  whole  law 
relating  to  this  case  was  drawn  from  the  act  of  ibe  Legislature, 
which  authorized   the  ineetins  of  this  Ctinverition.     l^e  flatcd 


63 

the  qualifications  of  Representatives,  compared  the  situation  of 
the  delegates  with  them,  and  showed  the  difference  between  the 
cases.  He  observed,  that  nothing  in  the  act  would  lead  him  to 
suppose  it  the  intention  of  the  Legislature  to  make  the  qualifi- 
cations of  Delegates  to  this  Convention  similar  to  those  of  Rep- 
ffesentalives  to  the  General  Court. 

Mr  Virgin,  ot  Rumfurd,  one  of  the  committee,  vv^s  decidedly 
opposed  to  the. admission  of  Mr  Vanct*  to  a  seat  in  the  Conven- 
tion. From  a  very  close  examination  of  the  act,  he  said,  he 
was  so  far  from  being  convinced  of  the  truth  of  the  Hon. 
Judge's  remarks,  that  he  was  more  confirmed  in  the  opinion  he 
had  formed.  The  act  provides  that  towns  may  choose  the  same 
nuinber  of  Delegates  that  they  may  Representatives  ;  and 
that  sixty  members,  the  number  that  forms  a  quorum  in  the 
House  of  Representatives  of  Massachusetts,  shall  also  form  a 
quorum  in  this  assembly  ;  all  tending  to  show  that  the  Legis- 
lature, meant  to  assimilate  this  body,  in  respect  to  the  qualifica- 
tions  of  its  members,  to  that  of  the  House  of  Representatives. 
He  was  o(  the  most  decided  opinion,  that  from  a  fair  and  im- 
partial construction  of  the  law,  the  member  from  Calais  was 
not  entitled  to  his  seat. 

Judge  Green  said,  he  was  disposed  to  give  a  liberal  con-  . 
structiun  to  the  law,  and  not  strain  to  discover  what  was  the  in- 
dention of  (he  Legislature,  but  to  take  the  act  as  it  was ;  and  on 
that  principle  he  was  clearly  of  opinion  that  the  member  was 
duly  eiecfed.  The  act  provides  that  the  qualifications  of  the 
electors  of  shoulii  be  the  same  as  those  of  Senators  ; — now  theij 
choo-e  from  the  whole  cou  iy  or  district— why  then  should  not 
a  Deleg^ite  have  ihe  same  extensive  privilege  ? 

Judge  Thacher  observed,  tliat  ii  had  i)een  very  correctly  sta- 
ted by  his  Honorable  friend  from  South  Berwick,  that  the'Con- 
vention  and  (he  rights  of  iis  members,  were  mere  creatures  of 
the  statute  which  called  them  together,  and  to  that  every  one 
must  resort  to  see  vvbat  were  his  particular  powers  and  rights. 
He  said  he  had  minutely  looked  into  that  law,  and  he  could 
not  firjd  a  single  word  or  phrase  that  expressly  related  to  the 
qualifications  of  the  persons  wLo  should  be  members  of  the 
Convention.  Nor  could  he  find  any  particular  words  from 
which  a  legal  inferf^nce  might  warrant  the  conclusion,  made  by 
those  who  contended,  that  the  members  must  be  residents  in 
the  towns,  they  were  chosen,  to  represetit,  as  Representatives  are. 
The  Constitution    of  MassachusettSj  says,  tke   Representative 


t54 

^hall  be^  among  other  qualifications,  an  inhabitant  of  the  town  he 
is  diosen  to  represent.  Were  it  not  t'ur  luis  clause,  ihe  to^vns 
miglil  elect,  tor  ttieir  Representatives,  persons  having  the  oih' 
er  qualifications,  though  they  did  not  live  in  thai  town,  as  it  is 
well  known  the  people  of  England  do.  Now  there,  js  no  such 
restrictive  clause,  or  any  thing  like  it,  in  tlie  law  under  which 
the  Convention  is  called  into  existence.  But,  he  observed,  it 
had  been  repeatedly  demanded  by  those  opposed  to  the  mem- 
ber's holding  his  seat,  what  the  Convention  would  do,  ii  a  town 
should  send  a  minor,  or  a  black  man  ? — would  not  the  Conven- 
tion have  a  right  to  turn  them  out  ?  Me  said  he  thought  the 
Convention  might  bo  excused  from  giving  a  direct  reply  to  such 
a  question  ;  but  he  as  an  individual  lelt  no  difficulty  or  aversion 
to  giving  a  direct  answer  to  all  such  questions,  by  saying,  he 
should  ti)ink  it  his  duty  to  hail  ihem,  black  or  white,  as  brother 
Conveniioners.  If  a  town  had  a  black  man  in  it,  or  could  liiid 
one  out  of  it,  whom  they  had  rather  confi'le  their  interests  in 
Ihan  a  white  man,  he  did  not  think  the  Convention  had  any 
fight  to  exclude  him  on  account  oi  the  color  of  his  skin. 

There  was  one  view  of  the  subject,  which,  he  thought,  ought 
to  satisfy  all  those  who  op[)Osed  the  seat  ot  Mr.  Vance,  on  ac- 
count of  his  not  being  a  member  of  the  town  he  is  elected  to 
represent.  They  had  attempted  to  raise  an  argument  against 
the  sitting  member,  on  a  supposed  analogy  between  the 
mode  of  electing  Representatives,  and  the  eiecdon  of  Dele- 
gates. This  he  said,  might  be  a  good  mod<i  of  argument  if  the 
two  cases  were  perfectly  alike  in  all  ibeir  material  bearings, 
and  ly  the  Constitution  did  not  moke  reddence  absolutely  neces- 
sary for  a  Representatfue,  while  the  law  does  not  makt  residejice 
necessary  fur  a  Delegate.  Now  this  want  of  analogy  i.>  ihe  two 
cases,  tola.ly  de.sirt>ys  the  ground  of  all  their  analogical  reason- 
ing. But  if  due  aiienlion  be  paid  to  anolher  fact,  \.he  argu^ 
ment  from  analogy  will  conclude  fully,  and  with  all  its  force, 
in  favor  of  i\Jr.  Vance's  holding  his  seat:  the  fact  is  ihis — the 
4ilectors  of  dtlegate%  are  not  ail  the  same  as  the  eltctoi>  of  rep- 
resentatives, but  the  sanie  as  the  electors  (if  Senators.  And  in 
-thoosing  Senators,  the  electors  are  not  confined  (o  any  iown, 
but  (he  county,  At  iheir  candidate  ;  hence  the  argument  from 
analogy  is,  that  \\  the  j)erson  chosen  for  any  particular 
Iown,  U  an  inhabitant  of  the  county,  he  is  legally  qualihed  for 
a  Delegate. 

Mf-  Vance,  ^^^  silting  member,  observed,  that  something  bad 


65 

fallen  from  the  Hon.  gentleman  from  Rumford,  which  tended  t# 
implicate  hin.  He  felt  it  his  duU  to  state  to  the  Convention, 
that  he  had  been  absent  from  the  neighborhood  of  Calais  for 
three  vveeks  previous  to  the  election ;  that  he  had  made  no  ef- 
fort to  effect  hiselection  ;  that  he  owned  a  considerable  estate 
in  Calais,  and  had  been  the  a-gent  of  that  town  in  important 
transactions,  in  which  he  had  always  given  satisfaction,  for  a 
number  of  years. 

Mr.  Emery,  of  Portland,  said,  he  was  on  the  committee  who 
made  this  report,  and  sincerely  regretted  that  a  difference  of 
sentiment  had  ari?en  among  the  members  of  the  Committee. 
The  objection  against  the  election  of  Mr  Vance,  ought  not  to 
prevail,  unless  upon  the  most  incontrovertible  reasons.  Mr.  E. 
possessed  a  strong  hope,  that,  from  the  uniformly  candid  and  ac- 
xomn.odating  spirit  which  had  marked  the  proceedings  of  the 
Convention  in  regard  to  the  returns  of  members  already  quiet- 
ed in  their  seats,  that  no  resort  would  be  had  to  a  nice  and  cap- 
tious construction  for  the  purpose  oi  excluding  the  gentleman 
who  came  from  a  remote  part  of  the  District.  That  his  con- 
duct had  not  been  perfectly  fair  and  honorable  in  the  course  of 
the  election,  there  was  not  a  shadow  of  evidence. 

We  are  called  upon  by  the  remonstrance,  to  destroy  the 
rights  of  the  majority  of  the  electors  of  Calais.  And  why  ? 
Because  simply  that  majority  have  selected  a  long  tried  and 
faithful  agent  in  other  affairs,  as  one,  in  their  opinion,  the  best 
qualified  to  aid  in  the  work  before  us.  They  certainly  were 
the  best  judges  of  the  person  most  acceptable  to  them.  And 
they  displayed  an  independence  of  that  local  jealousy  of  merit 
^s  confined  to  town  lines,  which  has  so  often  been  lamentedr 
But  it  is  suggested,  that  upon  his  being  asked  whether  he  belie- 
ved that  a  person  not  an  inhabitant  oi  a  town  could  be  sent  as  a 
delegate,  he  avowed  his  belief  that  it  would  be  perfectly  legal  ; 
and  the  persons  remonstrating  thought  that  the  opinion  so  given, 
had  great  influence  in  securing  his  election. 

Il  amounts  to  a  declaration  that  he  thought  biopelf  qnalified 
for  the  office  ?  And  had  he  lost  the  liberty  of  speech  ?  Had  not 
he  a  right  to  reply  to  such  a  question  ?  And  may  it  not  well  be 
asked  whether  every  candidate  for  election,  does  not  tacitly,* 
or  expressly,  assert  his  qualifications  for  the  staion  ?  A  major- 
ity of  the  town  united  in  Itiis  opinion.  The  others  who  voted, 
it  is  presumed,  either  from  the  circumstance  of  their  belief  of  hie 
ineligibility,  or  from  other  motives,  sought  to  prevent  hi?  elec- 


66 

tion.  Tbey  voted  according  to  tbeir  sentiments  and  their  rights. 
But  they  failed*  because  men  could  not  be  brought  to  coincide 
with  them  in  sentiment.  No  doubt  can  remain  that  they  were 
faithful  to  themselves,  and  did  their  best  to  effect  the  election  of 
their  favorite.  They  were  unsuccessful.  The  rights  of  a  mi- 
nority are  to  be  respected,  and  preserved  to  their  utmost  ex- 
tent. But  in  doing  that,  we  are  not  to  deprive  the  majority  of 
their  privilege,  when  they  have  done  nothing  dishonorable  or 
unjust,  nor  any  thing  to  prevent  the  free  exercise  of  the  elec- 
tive franchise  of  the  minority. 

The  law  under  which  we  have  here  assembled,  does  not  con- 
fine the  choice  of  members  to  the  towns  in  which  those  mem- 
bers live.     Shall  we  be  wiser  than  the  law  ? 

But  it  Is  said,  that  our  construction  should  be  as  strict  in  this 
respect,  as  with  regard  to  a  Representative  to  the  General 
Court.  The  arguments  of  gentlemen  who  have  preceded  me, 
would  have  removed  e\eTy  doubt  from  my  mind,  had  1  for  a  mo- 
ment entertamed  any.  But  I  would  submit  to  the  judgment  of 
the  Convention,  whether  a  good  reason  may  not  exist  for  omit- 
ting the  requisition  of  residence.  We  know  that  the  exercise 
of  legislative .  power  biiids  the  constituent  from  the  completion 
ol  the  statute  which  may  be  m^ule  by  virtue  of  that  legislative 
power.  The  elector  has  no  opportunity  t  f  revising  or  objecting : 
he  must  submit  to  the  law  as  his  rtpresentatives  agree,  after  be- 
ing sanciiuned  by  the  Executive.  But  as  to  our  powers,  we  ar«" 
simply  as  agents  for  our  constituents,  to  digest  and  submit  to 
them,  a  set  oi  piiiiciples  agreeably  to  which,  we  expect  our 
laws  shall  be  framied.  The  instrun^ent  which  we  may  form, 
will  return  again  to  the  people  for  their  deliberate  revisal.  They 
can  ratify  the  doings  of  their  agents  then  m  their  tow'i  meetings, 
or  they  can  disapprove  them.  Till  then  our  acts  have  no  bind- 
iuii  efficacy  with  regard  to  those  who  have  confided  to  us  the 
important  concerns  in  which  we  are  engaged.  The  distinction 
t)etween  the  office  of  a  representative  and  that  of  a  delegate  to 
4his  Convention,  in  this  view  of  the  subject,  is  strikingly  and 
strongly  marked 

As  to  the  circumstance  that  60,  are  made  to  constitute  a  quo- 
rum in  the  House  of  Representatives  of  Massachusetts — and  al- 
so of  this  assembly — it  does  not  aflfbrd  the  least  illustration  to 
the  argument  from  analogy — That  enumeration  was  merely 
arbitrary  for  the  convenience  of  determining  when  those  ^^h^ 
might  me^t  should  commence  hu.^inefis. 


67 

However,  it  is  still  asserted  that  if  we.  do  not  confine  the 
elections  to  inhabitants  of  towns  who  send  delegates,  we  might 
have  inhabitants  of  ihe  British  Provinces,  imposed  upon  us — 
Can  any  gentleman  be  serious  in  stating  that  he  believes  there 
is  rhe  least  danger  of  such  an  occurrence  ? 

The  case  of  Mr.  Vance,  is  of  a  citizen  of  the  United  States, 
living  in  the  plantation  adjoining  the  town  of  Calais,  and  owning 
property  in  that  town,  which  has  selected  him  as  their  delegate. 
He  has  been  long  known  to  all  the  people.  They  have  fully 
proved  his  ability  to  serve  them. 

Now  it  i?  fair  that  imagination  should  have  full  play,  as  to  all 
the  tacts  which  exist,  and  every  effort  of  eloquence  may  be  exer- 
cised to  convince  us,  that  upon  those  facts  he  is  not  eligible — 
But  this  grave  assembly  ought  not  to  permit  itself  to  follow  the 
most  briHi^nt  illusion^  further — When  a  Brilish  subject  is  palm- 
ed upon  us  as  a  delegate,  it  will  be  sufficient  for  us  ;hen  to  settle 
his  admissibility  into  our  counsels. 

After  a  tew  observations  from  Judge  Thacher,  the  vote  was 
taken  on  his  resolution,  and  decided  in  the  affirmative. 

During  the  debate  on  Mr.  Vance's  election,  Judge  Parris, 
from  the  committee  on  the  constitution,  came  in  and  informed 
the  Convention,  that  he  had  been  sent  by  the  committee  to  in- 
form them  that  the  committee  expected  to  be  able  to  make  their 
report  this  afternoon  at  5  o'clock.  This  suggestion  was  made 
lest  the  Hon.  body  should  adjourn  to  Monday.  Adjourned  to 
this  afternoon. 

Afternoon. — Mr.  Virgin,  moved  that  the  vote  passed  this  fore- 
noon admit!  ing  \Vm.  Vance,  Esq.  returned  as  a  delegate  from 
the  town  of  Calais  to  this  Convention,  be  reconsidered.  The 
debate  on  this  subject  occupied  the  afternoon  until  adjournment, 
in  which  Mr.  Virgin,  Judge  Thacher,  and  Judge  Coney  took 
part ;  the  arguments  used  in  the  Ibrenoon  were  reiterated  and 
enforced.  Piuch  interest  was  excited  and  after  an  animated 
discussion  it  was  decided  not  to  reconsider  the  vote — -49  rising 
in  the  affirmative  and  106  in  the  Regaiive. 

A  communication  was  received  frum  the  committee  on  the 
constitution,  stating  that  they  were  prevented  from  making 
their  report,  as  they  had  informed  the  Convention  in 'he  fore- 
noon, during  the  session  of  this  afternoon  ;  but  asked  leave  to 
h^ve  it  printed,  as  they  should  complete  it  by  evening,  for  the 
use  of  the  -nembers.  It  was  accordingly  Resolved,  that  the 
committee  be  authorised  to  cause  500  copies  of  iheir  report  ie  • 
'^e  printed  for  the  use  of  the  Convenlion. 


68 

Mr.  Wood,  was  requested  to  convey  this  resolution  to  the 
committee. 

Adjourned  to  Monday  10  o'clock. 


MONDAY,    OCTOBER    18. 

No  business  (excepting  in  relation  to  the  returns  of  one  or  tw© 
members,  which  passed  sub  silentio)  came  before  the  Conven- 
tion, until  the  hour  o(  tzvelve,  when  the  President  called  their 
attention  to  the  Declaration  of  Rights,  for  the  consideration  of 
which  that  time  had  been  assigned". 

Judge  Thacher  observed,  it  was  a  subject  of  primary  im- 
portance, aiid  it  was  very  desirable  that  the  chairman  and  mem- 
bers of  the  committee,  for  framing  the  constitution,  should  be 
present,  when  it  was  discussed  ;  which  would  probably  be  the 
case,  in  the  afternoon.  He  therefore,  hoped  the  subject  would 
not  be  taken  up  till  then. 

Judge  Ames  concurred.  The  commtttee,  said  he,  are  thtj 
ears  and  eyes  of  the  Convention.  The  Bill  of  Kights  requires 
much  explanation,  and  it  would  be  a  mere  waste  oi  time  to  take 
it  up  in  the  ir  absence.  He  also  observed,  that  tl}e  chairmao 
of  that  committee  had  expressed  a  wisli,  that  it  should  be  de- 
ferred until  his  appearance. 

Information  was  then  received  from  the  committee,  that  they 
would  probably  report  a  Constitution  at  8  o'clock  in  the  after- 
noon, upon  which  the  convention  Adjourned* 

Afternoon — Resolved,  that  Henry  Smith,  Esq.  of  Portland, 
be  appointed  and  he  is  hereby  auihorised  to  draw  on  the  Treas- 
urer of  the  Commonweatlh  of  Massachusetts,  to  the  full  amount 
of  the  money  paid  into  the  Treasury  by  the  several  Banks 
within  this  District,  for  the  tax  upon  the  same,  due  and  payable 
the  first  Monday  of  the  present  month,  agreeably  to  the  author- 
ity vested  in  this  Convention,  by  an  Act  of  the  Legislature  of 
said  Commonwealth  passed  June  19,  entitled  *'  An  Act  rela- 
ting to  the  Separation  of  the  District  of  Maine  from  Massachu- 
setts proper,  and  forming  the  same  into  a  separate  and  inde- 
pendetit  State  ;"  as  the  amount  of  the  Pay  Roll  of  this  Con- 
vention will  exceed  the  amount  of  the  tax  on  the  Banks  due  and 
payable  as  aforesaid. 

REPORT  OF  THE~COMMiTTEE.  ^ 

In  Committee.  Portland,  oct.  18. 
^he  Committee  io  vckom  was  re/erred  the  subject  of  a  Com- 


6^ 

dilution  for  Maine,  hav6  cUtended  to  thai  subject,  and  ask  leave 
to  Report,  J.  HOLMES,  ChainuiUi. 

[Here  follows  the  remainder  of  the  Constitution,  which  it  is  inex- 
pedient to  insert  entire,  as  the  material  alterations  will  appear  in 
the  course  of  the  proceedings.] 

Af.er  reading  the  Report,  the  Chairman  observed,  that  since 
the  copies  ordered  to  be  printed  were  struck  off,  the  com.nittee 
had  made  some  alterations  and  additions,  which  he  now  moved 
should  be  printed  :  which  was  agreed  to- 

On  moMon  of  the  Hon.  Chairman,  it  was  Voted^  that  to-mor- 
row at  10  o'clock,  be  assigned  for  taknig  the  report  into  con- 
sideration. 

The  Convention  then  went  into  the  consideration  of  the  first 
part  of  the  report,  consisting  ofibe  Declaiaiion  of  Rights, 
which  was  read,  debated,  and  accppled.  section  by  section. 

The  [)reamb!e  a?  reported,  began,  "  Wt:  the  people  of  that 
part  of  Massachusetts  denominated  (he  District  of  Maine,  (J-c. 
On  motion  of  Mr.  Holmes,  it  was  amended,  by  striking  out  the 
word*-  i  I  itrJicks, 

Jud^e  Tuacher,  then  observed,  that  the  word  Maine  vvas 
not  aK?iie  siifficietJ.t  to  designate  the  territory  of  (he  State.  The 
Laws  of  the  Unite<i  Spates  have  determined  what  shall  be  the 
territory  of  the  U'strict  of  Maine.  But  the  original  na'T^eof 
jMaiae,  incluiled  only  the  territory  between  the  Piscataqua  and 
the  f'Cennehtrck  rivers,  anQ  was  not  sufficienily  definite. 

Mr.  tlobnes  replied,  that  the  words  stricken  out  were  un- 
necssary  ;  that  since  the  charter  of  VVi  ham  and  Mary,  the 
territory  has  been  known  as  Maine,  as  far  ..s  the  St.  Croix,  and 
comprehended  at  the  present  li:ne  ail  that  the  Di-trict  of  Maine 
ever  did,  and  that  he  did  not  wish  any  longer  to  retain  the 
appellation  of  Didrict, 

A  question  of  order  arose,  and  Judge  Thacber  gave  notice 
that  he  should  move  for  a  re-consuJeration  to  morrow. 

Some  slight  correction  was  a!^o  made  in  ihe  phraseology  of 
the  preamble,  and  Mr.  Holmes  then  moved  that  the  blank 
which  was  left  lor  the  style  and  title,  should  be  filled  with 
*'  Stale  of  Maine"  agreeably  io  a  former  v  ote  of  the  Con- 
vention. 

Mr.  Whitman,  rose  and  bogcjed  the  indulgence  of  the  Con- 
vention a  few  moments,  while  be  improved  the  only  opportij- 
uity  be  had  yet  enjoyed,  in  consequence  of  having  before  been 
•enj;a^ed  on  the  ct mmittee,  to  enter  hjs  dissent  to  the  name 


70      ^ 

now  sufijgested.     The  name,  said  he,  is  quite  familiarized  vvitii 
us,  but  it  is  not  abroad. 

There  is  a  name  which  I  would  suggest,  and  if  the  present 
moJioij  does  not  prevail,  shall  move  to  fill  the  blank  with  it. 
Ir  Is  H  name  which  is  derived  from  a  territory  once  comprehen- 
dintr  a  consid<^rable  part  of  Maine  ;  it  is  therefore  not  a  new  or 
arb'traiy  term  but  is  a[)pr()priate,  well  sounding  and  respecta- 
ble, it  is  Ligonia,  He  hoped  the  blank  would  be  filled  with 
that  name  and  title,  as  preferable  to  Maine. 

Judge  Bridge,  observed  that  the  committee  on  the  constitu- 
tion did  not  think  it  belonged  to  them  to  discuss  the  subject, 
but  only  adopted  a  name  provisionally,  and  not  with  the  de- 
sign to  interfere  with  the  duties  of  another  committee. 

Judge'  Greene.  1  ihink  the  gentleman  from  Portland,  en- 
tirely (!>ut  of  order.  A  committee  had  this  subject  betorc  them 
and  on  their  report,  after  a  discussion  of  nearly  a  day,  and  af- 
ter notice  was  given  that  a  large  part  of  the  committee  were 
present,  decided  ;  and  it  is  now  too  iale  to  resume  the  consid- 
eration. Ifany  thing  has  been  done  by  this  Convention,  it  has 
settled  this  question. 

Mr.  Holmes,  made  some  further  remarks  in  support  of  his 
motion.  The  blank  was  then  ordered  to  be  filled  with  the 
style  and  title  of  the  *'  State  of  M^ine. 

Mr,  Holmes,  said  he  was  about  to  move  for  the  insertion  of  a 
name  which  excited  liJicule  in  none  but  an  atheist.  He  would 
therefore  move,  to  amend  the  report,  by  striking  out  the  words 
*'  Great  Legislator  of  the  Universe,"  4'C.  and  insert  those  of 
"  Sovereign  Ruler.'''* 

Judge  Thacher,  preferred  the  words  Almighty  God  or 
Jehovah. 

Mr  Holmes,  thought  there  was  great  propriety  when  form- 
ing rules  for  the  government  of  the  people,  that  we  should  ac- 
knowledge our  subjection  to  the  Sovereign  Ruler  oi  the  Uni- 
verse :  and  the  vote  being  taken,  the  motion  was  decided  in 
the  affirmative. 

The  question,  shall  the  Preamble  as  amended  be  accepted  ? 
passed  in  the  affirmative  without  a  division. 

The  first  and  second  sections  of  the  Bill  of  Rights  were  then 
severally  read  and  passed  without  amendment. 

On  the  3d  section  being  read,  Mr.  Holmes  observed,  it  was 
an  important  subject,  and  perhaps  at  that  late  hour,  gentlemen 
were  not  prepared  to  enter  on  the  discussion,  and  therefore  mo- 
yed  an  adjournment ;  whereupon  the  Convention      Adjourned, 


71 

TUESDAY,    OCTOBER  19. 

A  memorial  was  presented  to  the  Convention  from  a  commit- 
tee of  the  -*  Catholics  of  Maine,"  stating  that  under  the  Consti- 
tution of  Massachusetts  they  were  excluded  from  an  equal  par- 
ticipation of  the  benefits  of  government,  and  praying  that  by 
the  new  constitution,  they  might  be  admitted  to  an  equality  of 
religious  and  civil  rights  and  immunities. 

Judge  Parris,  remarked  that  the  object  of  the  memorialists, 
w^ould  doubtless  be  secured  to  them  by  the  Bill  of  Rights,  if 
ado{)ted  as  reported,  and  moved  that  the  petition  lie  on  the 
table. 

Judge  Thacher,  observed,  he  fully  approved  of  the  general 
sentiments  of  the  petition,  and  hoped  all  religious  distinctions 
would  now  be  done  away,  and  no  more  be  made  objections  to 
political  arrangements  of  the  government.  We  are  all  children 
of  the  same  God,  in  Heaven;  and  he  has  proclaimed  himself 
Our  Father.  Whatever  sects  or  denominations  we  may  have 
divided  ourselves  into  ;  and  however  we  may  through  prejudice 
think  ours  is  the  favoured  of  Heaven — nevertheless  we  are  all 
equal  in  our  rights,  and  equaUy  dear  to  our  Father,  if  we  obey 
his  laws.  He  trusted  no  distinction  or  pre  eminence  would  ever 
be  giveia  to  any  religious  sect,  as  such  ;  whether  Catholics, 
Jews  or  Mahometans — The  liberal  principles  of  our  govern- 
ment ought  to  make  no  difference  between  them  ;  so  far  as  we 
look  to  the  investigation  of  truth  by  the  force  and  effect  of  an 
oalh,  there  is  no  ground  for  the  exclusion  of  either  of  ihese  great 
divisions.  Does  a  court  of  justice  rest  sati^fied  when  a  chris- 
tian calls  God  to  witness  the  truth  of  his  testimony  ?  and  does 
not  the  descendents  of  Abraham  call  the  God  of  Abraham,  Isaac 
and  Jacob  to  be  present,  while  they  depose,  and  is  he  not  also 
the  God  and  Father  of  our  Lord  Jesus  Christ,  by  whom  chris- 
tians swear  ?  'J'he  Mahometans  in  their  most  solemn  transac- 
tions, speak  in  the  name  of  the  most  merciful  God,  who  is  the 
Jehovah  of  Jews  and  christians,  'i'he  Hindoos  loo,  were  Ujere 
any  in  this  country,  would  be  iniitled  (ogive  sestimony  in  our 
courts  of  justice,  tho'  they  were  lo  call  upon  Jugcarnsiut  him- 
selt,  as  the  God  th(-y  feared — And  according  to  the  accounts 
lately  given  us  by  travellers,  none  is  more  feared,  or  more  terri- 
ble to  the  imagination  of  devotees. 

Ordered,    That  the  petition  of  the  Cathf»lics,  lie  on  the  fable. 
The   consideration  of  the    Declaration  of  liighls,.  was  iheji 
resumed. 


72 

The  od  section  being  reaei,  Judge  Thacher  moved,  te  amend 
it  in  the  first  and  second  lines,  in  ihe  following  nianner — *•  As  it 
'*  is  the  absolute  duty  of  all  men  to  worship  God  their  creator, 
**  so  it  is  their  natural  right  to  worship  him  in  such  way  and 
*'  manner  as  their  conscience  dictates,  to  be  agreeable  to  his 
'*  revealed  will" — And  in  support  of  which  amendment,  he 
said,  it  was  substantially  the  same  as  is  contained  in  the  De- 
claration of  Rights  in  the  constitution  we  have  lived  under  for 
forty  years  ;  and  he  had  never  seen  or  heard  of  a  person  who 
denied  the  truth  contained  in  the  amendment,  or  even  in  theory 
or  speculation  attempted  to  call  in  question  its  propriety.  He 
presumed  every  member  of  the  Convention  was  ready  to  make 
the  acknowledgement  ;  and  if  called  upon  individually  to  ex- 
press their  sentiments,  he  had  no  doubt,  but  they  would  all  agree 
to  <!eciare,  that  every  rational  creature,  having  in  their  hands 
such  a  revelation  from  Heaven,  as  we  have  in  the  Bible,  is  un- 
der the  highest  oblig'^tion  to  make  some  expression  of  his  sense 
of  duty  by  way  of  worship. — He  thought  it  was  not  enough  to 
say,  it  is  the  natural  and  unalienable  right  to  worj-hip  Almighty 
God — Because  it  might  be  said,  thai  as  men  might  remit  cer- 
tain rights  introduced  for  their  own  benefit,  so  they  might,  omit, 
if  »hey  did  not  give  up  this  right — Arid  he  hoped  none  of  the 
Conv  ntton  wished  U>  secure  to  themselves,  or  any  bo*ly  of  peo- 
ple, the  right  not  to  worship  at  all,  as  well  as  the  right  to  wor- 
ship according  to  the  dictates  of  conscience  as  often  as  they  saw  Jit 
to  worship — It  being  a  universal  duty,  what  could  a  rational  be- 
ing wish  for  more  than  to  discharge  the  duty  in  some  mode  or 
other,  and  having  freely  elected  that  mode  to  have  it  secured  to 
him  against  nil  interference  of  others. 

He  endeavoured  to  illustrate  his  mettning,  by  saving  Miere 
are  various  denominations  )f  christians  in  this  and  every  coun- 
try through' <ut  Christendom,  viz  :  v.aihohcs,  Episcopalians, 
Congregationalists,  Presbyterian?,  Baptists,  Methodists,  Uni- 
versalisis,  4'C- — and  several  of  these  are  again  subdivided  into 
sects,  where  they  make  it  a  point  of  conscience,  not  to  comply 
wholly  with  each  others  mode  of  worship  in  form  or  in  doc- 
trine. But  why  cannnot  ihey  be  each  contented  and  satisfied 
when  he  have  made  his  choice,  and  selected  the  sect  l>is 
conscience  will  permit  him  to  associate  with,  to  suffer  a  gener- 
al law  to  enforce  him  to  do  that  which  he  and  every  body  else 
acknowledge  to  be  a  duty  ;  and  he  says,  his  co)Sc;ence,  in  the 
particular  case,   is  satisfied  with  F — When  any  number  of  me» 


73 

have  declared  themselves  to  be  Baptists  and  associated  tor  pub- 
lic worship,  and  agreed  upon  the  mode,  vvhat  inquiry  can  arise 
to  any  one,  for  the  law  to  say,  you  shall  now  worship  in  themode 
you  say  is  agreeable  to  your  conscience  ?  The  same  mode  ot 
reasoning  is  equally  applicable  to  each  division  and  sub-division. 
He  concluded  by  saying  he  saw  no  objection  to  ibis  course  ot* 
reasoning,  but  to  say,  that  the  meaning  of  the  phrase,  ''  ri\f)ii 
to  worship  God  according  to  each  mans  conscience,  really  and 
truly  meant,  to  worship^  or  not  to  worship  as  he  pleases.''^ 

Dr.  Rose,  of  Boothbay,  said,  he  hoped  ihe  motion  would  not 
prevail.  The  delegates  came  here,  said  he,  to  establish  a  de- 
claration of  rights,  and  not  a  prescription  of  duties.  He  thought 
the  amendment,  therefore,  a  deviation  from  the  purpose  and 
object  of  the  article,  which  was  not  to  poirit  out  lo  the  citizens 
their  moral  and  religious  obligations,  but  by  a  plain  and  expli- 
cit statement,  to  instruct  them  in  their  civil  rights  and  regulate 
their  political  privileges. 

Mr.  Herrick,  of  Bowdoinham,  observed,  he  had  no  objec- 
tion to  declare  it  to  be  the  duty  of  man  to  worship  God  ;  but 
he  would  by  no  means  clothe  the  Legislature  with  authority  to 
enforce,  by  penalties,  the  performance  of  that  duty.  He  thought 
there  was  a  provision  in  the  constitution,  that  the  Legislature 
should  pass  no  laws  repugnant  to  the  constitution  of  the  United 
Stales,  which  secured  the  free  exercise  of  religion.  But  he 
was  apprehensive  that  if  the  Convention  should  go  so  far,  as  to 
insert  in  the  constitution  a  declaration,  that  it  is  a  duty  to  wor- 
ship God,  the  Legislature  might  hereafter  attempt,  by  penal 
laws,  to  compel  the  performance  of  that  duty.  It  might  be  ar- 
gued hereafter,  that  if  the  people  solemnly  declared  the  duty, 
an  obligation  was  imposed  on  the  Legislature  to  see  that  the 
duty  was  performed,  and  performed  in  a  proper  manner.  He 
would  not  give  a  colourable  pretext  for  legislating  on  this  sub- 
ject. Religion  i^  in  its  nature  personal,  it  is  a  quality  of  the 
heart  and  not  subject  to  human  laws,  which  by  their  severe  pen- 
alties commonly  make  hypocrites  and  bigots. 

Judge  Thacher  said,  he  thought  the  declaration  did  not 
amount  to  an  enforcement  of  the  mode  of  performing  that  duty 
— that  was  left  to  the  dictates  of  our  own  consciences.  But 
he  conceived  the  right  itself  to  be  founded  on  a  duty,  and  he 
was  of  opinion,  we  ought  to  insert  in  the  Constitution,  an  ac- 
knowledgment of  our  duty  to  worship  God. 

Mr.  Holmes.  Mr.  President— 1  rise  to  explain  the  reasons 
7 


74 

that  induced  the  Committee  to  adopt  the  article  as  it  is.  1,  toy 
one,  do  not  think  it  is  for  me  to  express  my  own  opinion  o[ du- 
ty in  a  declaration  c{  rights.  To  make  it  a  duty  to  exercise  a 
tight  is  preposterous.  Individually,  1  believe  it  my  duty  to 
worship  God  publicly  and  at  staled  seasons.  But  I  am  not  sure 
but  he  who  believes  it  his  duty  to  worship  l)im  in  private  only, 
is  equally  right.  It  would  be  difficult,  peihaps,  to  prove  in 
contestioly,  \h^{ public  worship  was  any  where  expresdy  enjoin- 
ed \u  scripluie.  There  may  be  very  conscientious  people, 
^'ho  would  insist,  with  pretty  good  authority  too,  that  all  pub- 
lic worship  waSjpharisaical,  and  that  man  to  ccnjmune,  pro[>er- 
Jy,  with  his  Maker,  should  entef  into  his  closet,  and  not  until 
he  had  shut  the  door^  was  he  to  pray  to  his  Father  in  secret. 

Worship  is  the  ro/wn/ari/ offering  of  the  fruit  cl  the  heart  to  a 
Deity.  1'he  moment  it  becomes  involuntary,  it  ceases  to  be 
worship. 

This  was  the  most  difficult  suljecl  we  bad  to  encounter.  We 
concluded,  at  length,  to  decjare  the  people's  rii^bts  of  ccn- 
tscience,  without  attempting  to  define  their  religious  duties.  \i 
ne  introduced  into  the  declaiation  our  duly,  we  might  niore  ; 
we  may  incorporate  a  whole  body  of  ethics.  It  is  a  sid  jtcl  ol 
extreme  delicacy.  To  prescribe  the  duty,  would  be  to  author- 
ise the  Legislature  to  enforce  it.  This  wculd  excite  jealousy 
and  alarm.  The  worship  of  God  is,  and  ought  to  be  free.  Re- 
ligious oppression  brought  cur  lathers  to  Ibis  countiy,  and  their 
descendants  will  not  fail  to  resist  it. 

The  motion  for  the  amendment  was  lost  by  a  great  majority. 

I\Jr.  Stevens,  of  China,  moved  an  amendment  to  this  section, 
which  was,  after  the  words  ''  or  obstruct  others  in  their  reli- 
gious worship,"  to  insert,*'  nevertheless,  every  sect  or  denomina- 
-'  tion  of  christians,  ought  to  observe  the  Sabbath,  or  Lord's 
«'  day,  and  keep  up  some  sort  of  religious  worship,  which  to 
"  them  shall  seem  most  agreeable  to  the-revraUod  will  ofGod." 
lie  thought  it  dtcorcus  and  proper  for  the  Constitution  to  ex- 
press a  solenm  opi  uon  on  this  subject,  not  for  the  purpose  of 
compelling  tl»e  observance  of  th^  duly  by  penal  laws.  He 
strongly  disclaimed  any  such  wish,  and  deprecated  the  at- 
tempt as  much  as  any  man  could  do,  Wui  v.  iln-ut  furnisbmg 
a  pretext  tor  legislation,  he  thought  the  example  of  the  Con- 
vention would,  as  it  ouglit,  carry  great  weight  wiih  i^t. 

Mr.  Holmes.  Mr.  President— I  regiet  we  bati  not  the  ser- 
\icesoflhe   gentleman  on  the  Commiitce.     I  think,  if  he  had 


75 

heard  the  objections  and  arguments,  he  would  not  have  offered 
bis  proposition.  The  legislature  have,  no  doubt,  the  right  to 
set  apart  one  day  in  seven,  as  a  day  of  rest — to  select  the  day, 
and  to  prohibit  therein  labor  or  recreation.  This  comes  with- 
in the  scope  of  their  general  powers.  But  they  have  no  right 
to  prescribe  this  as  a  day  of  worship,  to  one  who  believes  that 
another  day  is  the  proper  Sabbath.  There  are  those  who  still 
think  that  the  seventh  day  of  the  w^eek  is  the  true  Sabbath  ;  and 
it  might,  perhaps,  be  difficult  to  show,  to  the  satisfaction  of  those 
people,  any  positive  command  to  substitute  the  ^rst  for  the 
se-'^enth.  The  propriety  of  appropriating  the  seventh  day, 
was  only  an  inference  from  the  practice  of  the  primitive  church, 
and  it  would  be  hard  on  those,'  who  felt  bound  by  their  con- 
sciences to  observe  the  seventh  day,  to  compel  them  in  addition 
to  observe  the  first,  by  the  penalties  ol  law.  Others  again  think 
secret  worship  h  a  duty,  and  not  public  worship,  which  they 
condemn  as  ostentatljus  and  pharisaical. 

Judge  Thacher  inqui^^ed.  whether  the  article  does  not  include, 
not  o»ly  all  denoiiiinations  of  christians^  but  all  religionists?  If 
that  be  the  case,  where  would  be  the  impropriety  of  adopting 
this  aaiendment  ?  Me  hoped  it  would  be  adopted.  We  are  in 
no  danger  froia  Sabbath  laws;  if  opposed  to  the  sentiments  of 
the  people,  they  will  set  them  at  defiance. 

The  motion  was  negatived. 

Mr.  Emery  of  Portland.  Mr.  President,  having  heard  many 
gentlemen  declare  it  to  be  a  duty,  individually  to  worship  God, 
but  th;it  they  feared  to  give  the  power  to  the  Legislature  to  en- 
force the  right,  I  feel  a  diffidence  in  introducng  an  amendment, 
which  m^y  have  that  appearance.  I  will,  however,  beg  leave 
to  subaiil  an  amendment,  which  is,  to  strike  out  the  word 
*'  worship,"  and  insert  '^  exercise  the  d\i[y  of  worshipping." 
The  section  will  then  read,  '*  all  men  have  a  natural  and  una- 
lienable right  to  exercise  the  duty  of  worshipping  Almighty 
God,"  d^c.  I  cannot  think  this  an  infringement  of  the  rights  of 
conscience.  It  seems  to  me,  to  steer  clear  of  the  objections 
that  have  been  made  to  the  amendments  which  have  been  offer- 
ed beliire.  The  duly  wdl  be  recognized,  but  the  power  of  en- 
forcing it  by  penalties,  will  not  be  conceded.  If  there  is  any 
memtjer  of  this  Convention,  who  does  not  think  he  or  his  con- 
stituents ought  to  exercise  the  duty,  then  he  may  avow  it  ; 
and  I  wish  to  have  the  sense  of  the  Convention  on  the  subject. 

Mr.  Holmes.     I  fear,   Sir,    I  m>y   be  considered  obtrusive, 


76 

and  must  apologize  for  appearing  so  frequently.  But  I  feel 
obliged  to  explain  and  defend  the  principles  adopted  by  the 
Committee.  1  would  not  be  strenuous  in  preserving  the  phra- 
seology of  the  repoit,  but  if  the  amendment  does  not  change 
the  n.eaning,  it  is  unnecessary.  If  it  does,  it  amounts  to  the 
same  as  the  propositions  which  have  been  just  rejected.  We 
are  in  this  article  to  consider  the  righls,  and  not  the  duties,  of 
the  peeple.  A  right  to  exercise  a  duty  seems  inconsistent.  A 
r'ghl  is  a  privilege,  a  duly  is  an  obligation.  A  right  to  perform 
a  duty,  is  a  privilege  to  be  subjected  to  an  obligation.  It  im- 
ports a  contradiction  in  itself.  If  you  mean  the  duty  is  to  be 
performed  in  a  particular  way,  then  you  prescribe  the  mode  of 
performance,  which  we  have  no  right  to  do. 

Judge  Green.  Mr.  President — 1  hope  the  amendment  will 
prevail.  1  am  constrained  to  say,  I  am  not  satisfied  with  the 
article  as  reported.  Before  making  some  remarks,  which  I  shall 
offer  on  this  subject,  however,  I  desire  it  may  be  distinctly  un- 
derstood, that  1  have  no  hostility  to  liberty  of  conscience.  On 
the  contrary,  1  have  declared  before,  and  I  will  now  declare, 
that  nodenominaiiun  of  christians,  ought  to  have  exclusive  priv- 
ileges secured  to  them  by  law.  1  think  a  government  ought 
to  treat  lbei»  all  as  equally  meritorious  ana  deservins:.  1  am 
the  last  man  that  would  surrender  the  right  of  worshipping  God 
according  to  the  dictates  of  my  own  conscience.  All  men  have 
the  right  to  worship  God,  but  1  think  this  duty  ought  to  be  dis- 
tinctly avowed.  And  it  is  incumbent  upjn  all  men,  u{)on  all 
proper  occasions,  by  every  imposing  word  and  act,  to  inculcate 
upon  others  the  worship  of  Deity.  And  to  declare  on  this  oc- 
casion and  in  this  instrument,  which  I  trust  is  to  be  perpetual, 
that  it  is  the  duty  of  man  to  worship  his  Creator,  can  do  no 
harm — it  certainly  may  do  good.  To  omit  to  do  this,  would 
show  too  great  an  indiffertnce,  on  the  most  important  of  all 
subjects.  Does  not  the  article  stand  unguarded,  as  it  is  now 
expressed  ?  Are  we  at  liberty  to  exercise  that  duty  or  not? 
This  article  may  be  considered  as  exempting  man  from  ihe 
perlormf^nce  of  this  duty.  I  do  not  believe  that  this  assembly, 
so  august — convened  to  discharge  the  most  important  duties 
that  can  be  peribrmed,  can  ^ave  it  to  be  said  by  implication, 
that  I  have  the  right  to  dispense  with  the  performance  ot  this 
duty,  and  neglect  to  discharge  the  obligation.  Dj  not  let  us 
say,  men  may  be  excused  from  the  performance  of  this  duty  at 
alL     1  do  not  think  we  have  a  right  to  say  how  men  shall  wor- 


77  , 

ihip  ;  that  they  shall  worship  in  this  temple  or  that— at  Jeru- 
salem or  on  Mount  Gerizim.  But  it  is  incumbent  on  us,  by  ev- 
'ery  solemn  obligation,  to  recommend  to  our  constituents  and  to 
posterity,  the  worship  of  God  in  public  or  private.  It  is  as 
much  right  that  we  should  worship  in  some  way,  as  it  is  that  we 
should  be  left  free  to  worship  in  our  own  way  ;  and  in  assert- 
ing too  zealously  the  latter,  I  hope  we  shall  not  lose  sight  ot  the 
former.  If  it  be  safe  to  say  a  man  may  neglect  to  worship  God, 
you  may  say  with  equal  safety,  he  may  deny  him.  And  what. 
Sir,  is  man  without  religion  ?  Ourselves,  our  property  and  re- 
putation, are  not  safe  without  it.  Destroy  religion,  and  you 
impair  the  obligation  of  an  oath.  I  am  sensible  religion  exists 
Ro  where,  but  between  a  man's  conscience  and  his  God.  But 
it  must  exist  somewhere— it  is  our  duty  to  encourage  it  every 
where — it  is  the  best  security  of  man.  And,  Sir,  !  do  hope  this 
Convention  will  not  hesitate  to  declare  in  a  body,  what  1  be- 
lieve is  the  settled  conviction  of  every  member,  that  it  is  the 
duty  of  man  to  worship  his  Creator. 

Mr.  Locke,  of  Chesterville.  Mr.  President— 1  consider, 
this  a  solemn  and  important  subject,  and  one  on  which  1  must 
express  my  opinion,  which  is  very  different  from  that  of  the 
Hon.  gentleman  last  up.  He,  Sir,  has  not  made  the  proper  dis- 
tinction between  right  and  duty.  1  consider,  Sir,  that  I  have  a 
right  to  attend  at  a  catholic  meeting,  but  it  is  not  my  duty  to  do 
it.  We  have  a  right  to  do  many  other  things  which  are  not  du- 
ties. It  is  not  the  duty  of  any  one  to  attend  put>lic  worship, 
where  he  cannot  do  it  agreeably  to  the  dictates  of  his  own  con- 
science. We  ought  not  to  be  obliged  to  perlorm  the  duty  of 
worshipping  God  by  legislative  power.  The  Legislature  is  de- 
parting from  its  proper  sphere,  when  it  undertakes  to  regulate 
the  intercourse  between  man  and  his  Maker.  Religion  beJHg 
seated  in  the  heart,  cannot  m  its  own  nature  be  cognizable  by 
human  laws.  And  if  we  appeal  to  history,  we  shall  find  little 
fmcouragement  for  legislating  on  this  subject.  Pure  religion  al- 
ways flourishes  most,  when  it  is  left  most  free. 

Mr.  Wilson,  of  Bingham,  expressed  himself  in  favor  of  reli^ 
gious  freedom,  and  in  opposition  to  the  motion. 

Judge  Thacher  observed,  that  he  thought  no  member  needed 
to  make  any  apology  for  bringing  forward  a  motion,  either  ori- 
ginal or  [o  amend  a  proposition  before  the  Convention.  Wnat 
reason  was  there  for  members  to  apologize  for  doing  that  whicfe 


78 

they  came  here  to  do  ?  We  were  sent  here  to  form  a  Constitution, 
and  it  is  the  right,  by  ihe  rules  of  our  body,  to  speak  twice  on  ev- 
ery subject  brought  before  us  ;  and  it  is  the  duty  of  each  mem- 
ber to  lend  his  whole  attention  to  the  speaker.  Surely  the  gen- 
tleman from  Alfred  needs  no  apology  for  frequently  addressing 
the  Convention.  It  is  almost  necessary  for  him  to  be  always  on 
the  floor.  As  chairman  of  the  committee,  who  reported  the  tbrm 
of  Government  now  under  discussion,  he  becomes  their  organ  to 
express  their  sense,  and  explain  all  its  parts  to  the  inquiring  mem- 
bers. Discussion  is  the  proper  mode  to  gain  information  ;  and 
there  is  no  danger  of  being  charged  with  unnecessary  delay  in 
our  proceedings.  Our  constituents  do  not  expecf  us  to  devise, 
discuss  and  conclude  on  a  Constitution  in  a  week  or  fortnight.  We 
came  together  as  strangers  to  each  other,  and  unacquinted  with 
one  another's  opinions.  The  territory  we  represent  is  very  ex- 
tensive, and  consequently  the  members  of  the  Convention  must 
have  time  and  opportunity  to  know  the  situation  and  circumstan- 
ces of  the  various  districts,  and  opinions,  and  then  to  combine  and 
arrange  them  into  some  common  principle  and  ground  of  action* 
He  said  he  had  no  fear  of  being  censured  on  account  of  expense, 
provided  we  finally  agreed  on  a  good  Constitution. 

As  to  the  ftmendment  offered  by  the  member  from  Portland, 
he  S'did  he  was  disponed  to  favor  it; — and  though  he  had  be- 
fore been  unsuccessful  in  one  ofthe  same  general  nature,  yet  as 
ihis  had  been  explained  by  the  mover,  he  hoped  it  would  be 
adopted.  The  former  amendment  was  opposed  on  the  ground 
that  it  was  feared  the  Legislature,  under  that  amendment,  might 
aid  a  religious  society  in  collecting  a  tax  laid  by  a  majority  of 
its  members,  which  the  Convention  seemed  to  think  might  some 
how  or  other  terminate  in  a  religious  tyranny  and  oppression  ; 
whereas  this  amendment  goes  only  to  recognize  the  duty  of  wor- 
shipping God,  but  not  to  enforce  it  by  aid  of  the  civil  authority, 
or  to  prescribe  the  manner  of  its  exercise*  It  secures  to  every 
one  his  own  mode  0/ performing  what  every  one  acknowledges  to 
be  a  paramount  duty  to  all  others.  It  is  a  duty  to  pay  a  debt,  and 
there  may  be  various  ways  of  discharging  it ;  and  the  law  that 
secures  to  the  debtor  any  one  of  these  vaiious  modes  he  shall 
elect  to  pay  it  in,  one  would  think  a  very  beneficial  law  to  all 
debtors.  This  illustrates  our  dufy  to  worship,  or  the  true  relation 
we  stand  in  to  God,  our  Creator  and  Governor  ;  and  the  amend- 
ment is  intended  not  to  enforce  the  discharge  but  to  protect  each 


79 

worshipper  to  discharge  the  duty  according  to  the  dictates  of 
his  conscience. 

Gen.  Chandler  was  opposed  to  the  naotion.  I  consider  it  my 
duty,  said  he,  to  worship  God  ;  but  there  is  a  difference  be- 
tween religious  duties,  and  political  duties.  One  may  be  a 
proper  subject  of  legislation,  and  not  the  other.  We  were  not 
sent  here  to  prescribe  (he  religious  duties,  but  to  determine  the 
rights  of  the  people.  This  is  a  religious  duty,  but  not  in  my 
opinion  a  political  duty  I  believe  it  is  better  to  have  the  ar- 
ticle stand  as  it  is.  The  only  objection  to  the  amendment  how- 
ever is,  that  it  may  be  thought  to  authorise  the  Legislature  to 
enforce  the  observance  of  (he  duty  by  penalties,  which  would  be 
an  infringement  of  our  rights. 

Mr.  Usher, of  Hollis,  said  he  hoped  the  amendment  would  be 
made  in  such  a  manner  as  to  enforce  the  duty  and  also  secure 
the  rights  of  conscience.  While  the  people  are  protected  in 
their  rights,  we  should  guard  against  their  licentiousness.  He 
could  see  no  reason  why  every  one  should  not  be  required  to 
contribute,  in  some  way,  to  the  support  ol  religion  and  the  wor- 
ship of  Almighty  God. 

Dr.Thayer,  of  Fairfield,hoped  the  article  would  not  be  amend- 
ed It  secures  to  us  the  important  righi  of  religious  Ireedom  ; 
and  we  may  learn  our  moral  and  religious  duties  from  another 
source.  If  men  will  not  learn  them  from  the  Bible,  they  will 
learn  them  no  where.  If  we  go  further,  we  may  make  hypo- 
crites, but  not  christians. 

Judge  Thacher  wished  to  make  this  article  so  as  to  acknowl- 
edge the  duty,  as  well  as  the  right, 

Mr.  Emery.  I  have  not  indulged  the  belief,  that  the  chair- 
man of  the  conimUtee  had  any  partiality,  or  pride  of  opinion,  in 
regard  to  the  phraseology  of  the  report.  I  believe,  if  the  alter- 
ation is  made,  there  will  be  no  collision  about  it,  among  our 
constituents.  When  we  only  assert,  what  they  all  have  learnt 
from  a  higher  source,  in  iheir  early  pupilage— when  we  express 
the  deep  sense  of  the  assembly  of  their  delegates,  of  their  obli- 
gations toijrod — it  cannot  be  calculated  to  make  them  hypocrites. 
And  I  do  hope  we  shall, by  the  most  perspicuous  and  suitable  lan- 
guage, express  our  duties  as  well  as  our  rights. 

1  fear,  Sir,  some  misunderstanding  exists  respecting  the  effect 
of  this  amendment.  It  will  lead  to  none  ot  the  consequences 
that  are  apprehended.  I  cannot  see  the  possibility  of  a  chance, 
that  the  Legislature  will  exercise  a  power,   that  will  endanger 


80 

the  security  nf  the  persons,  or  liberty  of  the  people,  or  abridge, 
or  contract  the  rights  of  any  sect  or  individual.  I  beg  that  this 
assembly  will  not  be  terrified  by  any  imaginary  evil,  that  can 
arise  from  adopting  this  amendment.  h  is  only  a  naked  ac- 
knowledgment of  the  duty,  and  implies  nothing  more  than  is  said. 

Mr.  Holmes.  Mr.  President — 1  have  not  been  able  to  satis- 
fy myself,  from  the  arguments  of  the  gentlemen,  that  any  good 
would  arise  from  the  amendment.  The  article  is  very  impor- 
tant. But  I  do  not  know  that  vye  are  to  prescribe  duties  to  our 
constituents.  This  amendment  may  impose  an  obligation  on 
the  Legislature  to  compel  the  performance  of  this  duly.  1  do 
not  believe  religion  is  in  danger  from  liberality.  1  trust  it  has 
better  props,  than  any  this  Convention  can  establish.  The  peo- 
ple will  tell  you  they  know  their  duties,  and  that  they  sent  us 
here  to  guard  their  civil  rights,  but  not  to  instruct  them  in  the 
prt:cepts  of  religion.  This  article  is  like  charity  itself:  it  hopes 
all  thirigs.  it  believes  all  things;  it  is  without  partiality,  and 
void  ot  hypocrisy. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  the  motion  to  amend,  and  it 
was  lost  by  a  large  majority. 

Mr.  Whitman  rose  to  address  the  chair.  He  commenced  by 
ob>erving,  that  this  article  in  the  Bill  of  Rights  as  far  as  it  went 
was  very  well — but  that  it  was  wholly  ot  a  negative  character. 
We  have  (said  he)  very  properly  guarded  against  the  undue 
exercise  of  power ;  and  have  determined  what  the  Legislature 
shall  not  do — but  we  have  not  said  what  they  shall,  or  may  do. 
While  we  prevent  their  doing  harm,  we  should  at  the  same  time 
provide  for  (heir  doing  all  the  good  that  may  be  possible. 

Religion  is,  to  be  sure,  a  matter  between  a  man  and  his  ma- 
ker. But  if  il  be  valuable  in  the  highest  degree  ;  in  its  effects 
upon  the  community,  as  every  one  must  admit  that  it  is,  we 
ought  to  take  care  as  far  as  may  be  consistent  with  the  rights  of 
individuals,  to  cherish  it,^nd  derive  from  it  every  possible  ad- 
vantage. All  government  is  in  a  manner  founded  upon  reli- 
ojon — it  constitutes  the  basis  of  social  order.  If  we  have  a  gov- 
ernment of  any  Vi^lue  to  the  people,  yet  if  we  have  not  a  mora! 
people,  if  corruption  gel  into  yuur  legislative  or  executive  de- 
partments, anarchy  must  follow.  Now  then  can  we  so  well  pro- 
mote good  morals,  as  by  religious  inslruction>  ?  Religion  is  what 
has  ever  distinguished  us  as  a  people.  The  superiority  of  our  in- 
stitutions, particularly  in  Nen  Ens;land,  over  those  of  other  na- 
tions, ii  principally  lo  be  ascribed  to  the  religious  character  of 


81 

the  people.  While  then,  on  the  one  hand,  we  guard  against  op- 
jjression  and  secure  to  individuals  the  enjoyment  of  their  rights, 
OH  the  other  we  should  not  tie  the  hands  of  the  Legislature,  in 
such  a  manner  as  to  prevent  their  doing  any  thing  to  uphold  reli- 
gious institutions,  which  inculcate  good  cnorals  and  cherish  reli- 
gious prniciples.  By.  this  bill,  the  Legislature  have  no  power 
to  make  provisions  for  its  support.  Can  they  have  this  power 
without  endangering  religious  freedom  ?  I  think  they  can,  Sir. 
By  the  article,  as  it  now  stands,  no  power  is  given  to  make  do- 
nations ;  or  to  incorporate  Trustees  for  the  management  of 
funds,  or  donations,  made  by  individuals.  Whether  such  a  pow- 
er would  result  from  any  construction  which  might  be  given  of 
if,  is  at  least  doubtiuL  We  have  now  many  religious  corpora- 
tions that  have  from  time  to  time  been  endowed;  and  shall  we 
not  have  the  power  to  protect  these  endowments,  and  to  extend 
this  patronage,  as  the  public  interest  may  require  ?  This  would 
not  endanger  religious  freedom  ;  it  would  be  a  salutary  power, 
and  not  liable  to  abuse. 

Sir,  the  peoplr  of  this  country  sre  jealous  of  their  liberties  ; 
but  this  jeaiou-y,  laudable  within  cetiain  limits,  may  be  carried 
to  a  pernicious  extreme  ;  and  this  is  the  case, when,  from  appre- 
hension of  danger  to  their  freedom,  they  withhold  such  powers 
from  their  rulers.  Our  real  security,  in  this  particular,  lies  in 
the  frequency  of  our  elec'ions.  Wiisle  the  frequency  and  puri- 
ty of  elections  continues,  I  feel  no  apprehension  for  the  security 
of  the  liberties  ofour  c<  untry. 

There  are  various  things  which  m'l^^Ui  be  done  for  the  encour- 
agement and  uphokliig  of  religion  and  religious  institutions^ 
which  would,  in  no  wise,  ati'ect  the  rights  of  con-cience.  These 
the  Legislature  ought,  not  only  to  have  power,  but  it  should  be 
theit  duty  to  do.  1  would  lUerefore  beg  leave  to  propose  the 
following  amendment  :— - 

*'  As  the  happiness,  of  a  people  and  the  sjood  order  and  pres- 
ervdiion  of  civil  government  especially  depend  upon  piety,  re- 
ligion and  morality  ;  and  as  these  cannot,  generally,  b**  diffused 
bufby  the  msiiiutijMSof  the  public  worship  of  God,  and  of  pub- 
lic instructions  in  piety,  religion  and  morality — Therefore,  to 
promote  their  happiness,  and  to  secure  good  order,  and  the  pres- 
ervation of  their  government,  the  LegjisU'ure  shall  have  power, 
and  are  hereby  authorised,  by  all  suitable  means,  to  enc(.urage 
and  support  the  i?i^titutioris  «)f  pui>lic  worship,  and  of  public  m- 
struction  in  the  principles  of  piety,  religion  and  morality." 


82 

Gen.  Chandler  thought  the  amendment  unnecessary,  as  all 
the  powers  the  gentleman  contended  for,  he  thought,  were  con- 
tained in  another  part  of  the  constitution,  reported  by  the  com- 
mittee. 

Judge  Parris.  I  was  not  disposed  to  speak  on  the  third  section, 
and  did  not  expect  there  would  have  been  one  word  of  debate  on 
the  subject.  But  I  am  opposed  to  some  of  the  princi- 
ples of  this  amendment.  It  is  well  known,  Sir,  that  the  people 
are  divided  into  diflferent  religious  sects.  Some  one  may  here- 
after become  predominant,  and  I  am  opposed  to  trusting  them 
with  the  power  of  putting  their  hands  into  the  public  chest,  and 
appropriating  to  the  exclusive  benefit  of  their  own  sect,  the 
funds  ot  the  State,  Such  things  may  happen,  Sir,  and  the  parties 
will  plead  this  article  in  their  defence  ;  they  will  say  it  is  ap- 
propriating money  for  the  support  of  religion,  and  they  will  un- 
doubtedly think  it  '^  suitabte^^'  that  their  own  sect  should  have 
the  preference.  The  v/ord  suitable  is  of  the  most  extensive  im- 
port, sufficiently  so,  to  cover  any  means  that  any  Legislature 
may  adopt,  as  they,  and  they  alone,  are  constituted  the  judges 
of  what  is  suitable.  1  am  not  disposed  to  trust  men  too  far.  A 
written  constitution  has  its  origin  in  a  salutary  jealousy  of  power, 
and  the  very  object  of  it  is  to  define  the  otherwise  indefinite 
and  unlimited  povtcrs  of  governwieni. 

Mr.  Holmts.  Mr.  President — I  did  expect,  from  the  argu- 
ments of  the  gentleman,  a  very  different  proposition  from  the 
one  laid  oii  the  table. 

The  arguments  were  on  the  propriety  of  authorising  a  con- 
firmation of  grants  or  donation?  already  made.  But  how  differ- 
ent is  the  one  offered  !  The  Legislature  shall  have  the  power^ 
and  are  hereby  au.horised,  by  all  suitable  means,  to  manage  and 
uphold  {he  institutions  of  public  worship.  Sir,  1  will  never  con- 
sent, on  any  consideration,  to  put  any  restraints  upon  con- 
science. Religion  needs  no  aid  from  government.  1  tremble 
when  I  thi'ik  of  the  fatal  effects,  which  have  resulted  from  the 
interference  of  ibe  civil  authority  in  matters  of  religion.  Power 
is  a  dangerous  word  in  religion.  I  tremble  at  its  influence,  when 
exercised  in  connection  with  the  passions  of  men  Rivers  of 
blood  have  flowed  from  religious  intolerance,  when  aided  by 
power.  Adopt  the  amendment,  and  what  prevents  the  institu- 
tion of  inquisitorial  power  ?  The  Legislature  might  consider 
thf^  establishment  of  one  sect,  to  the  exclusion  of  all  others,  as 
"  the  most  suitable  means."     On  this  subject,  Sir,  it  is  the  bu- 


83 

•ciness  of  the  Convention  to  restrain,  not  to  give  power.  Man 
is  ever  in  love  with  power.  Give  him  power,  and  he  will  be  in- 
clined to  forget  right.  Let  us  take  care  how  we  trust  fallible 
man.  Experience  proves  that  he  is  often  weak,  and  sometimes 
wicked,  1  hope  that  a  principle  so  danj^erous,  so  destructive  to 
religious  liberty,  will  not  prevail.  Give  your  Legislature  a 
power  to  uphold  religion,  and  trust  to  their  discretion  for  the 
suitable  means ^  and  you  arm  them  wilh  a  weapon  which  might 
prostrate  in  the  dust,  your  religious  liberties.  It  is  the  same 
power,  which  in  other  countries,  and  other  limes,  has  sanction- 
ed the  most  inveterate  and  cruel  persecutions.  By  its  aid, 
brothers  have  assassinated  brothers,  and  parents  have  seen  their 
children  expire  in  torture  at  the  stake.  Louis  XIV.  thought  the 
revocation  of  the  edict  of  Nantz,  ''  suitable  means.*'  A  confes- 
sor whispered  in  his  ear  that  religion  was  in  danger,  and  he 
thought  the  safety  of  the  church  was  in  danger — and  he  thought 
that  the  sal'ety  of  the  church  was  cheaply  purchased,  by  the 
death  or  exile  of  hall  a  million  of  his  most  useful  and  industri- 
ous subjects  Every  mode  by  which  men  could  harra^-r,  torture 
and  de^t^oy  one  another,  have  been  thought  suitable  means.  It 
does  not  satisfy  my  mind  to  be  told  merrily,  that  neither  we 
nor  our  posterity  shall  probably  abuse  this  power  ;  and  this  is 
all  that  can  be  promised.  I  would  not  give  the  power,  snd  then 
only  can  we  be  sure  it  will  not  be  abused.  Before  we  adopt 
this  proposition,  let  us  hesitate — let  us  pause  ! 

Judge  Thr^cher  observed,  that  if  he  had  just  taken  his  seat  in 
the  Convention  and  had  not  heard  the  amendment  read  from 
the  chair,  but  was  left  to  collect  the  subject  before  the  Conven- 
tion from  the  speeches  of  the  gentlemen, he  should  have  conclud- 
ed from  the  high  colouring,  the  animated  countenances,  and 
the  pathetic  appeals  to  the  par-sions  displayed  on  the  occasion, 
that  some  fair  widow  had  wi'.hin  a  few  days  been  consecrated 
on  the  funeral  pile  of  a  deceased  husband  and  that  John  Rog- 
ers wilh  all  his  family  and  the  infant  itself  in  the  arms  of  his 
mother  were  then  writhing  in  flames  at  the  very  door  of  the 
iiou  e.  Indeed  in  the  n.idst  of  so  much  agcny  and  tragedy,  he 
ihought  he  could  see  the  smoke  of  faggots  filjiiig  the  hall.  [Here 
the  President  sugsjested  to  the  speaker,  that  he  doubted  ulielh- 
er  he  wasii  older]  The  JuJge  continued,  thai  he  thought  if 
the  gentlemen  had  given  them  a  little  ntore  logic,  wilh  le?sili)- 
Cjuence  and  path;.>s,  it  would  have  had  a  more  rational  effect.  In 
lhe.se  days  of  efilightened  wisdom  he  did  not  believe   there  w?.5 


84 

any  danger  of  the  perpetration  of  the  barbarities  and  cruelties 
that  have  been  so  feelingly  described,  lie  saw  no  reason  why 
the  Legislature  might  not  be  authorised  to  assist  the  societies 
mentioned  in  the  proposed  amendment,  and  he  hoped  it  would 
prevail  ;  for  he  thought  it  a  salutary  provision  to  preserve  our 
existing  wholesome  institutions,  and  also  to  increase  their  good 
efffccts. 

Judge  Parris.  Mr.  President,  from  the  explanation  given  by 
the  mover  of  this  amendment,  I  think  it  needs  no  power  of  elo- 
quence, or  any  argument  of  reason,  to  point  out  the  odious  con- 
sequences which  may  follow,  if  it  is  adopted.  If  I  understand 
the  object  of  the  provision,  it  is  to  give  the  Legislature  the  pow- 
er of  endowing  religious  institutions.  Sir,  I  do  not  believe  the 
people  are  prepared  to  give  them  this  power.  I  am  for  restrain- 
ing ihe  Legislature  ;  I  am  not  for  empowering  any  sect  to 
thrust  their  hands  into  the  public  Treasury  and  take  the  public 
property  to  endow  their  religious  institutions.  As  far  as  lean 
go  with  the  gentleman,  to  support  the  cause  of  religious  princi- 
ples, and  leave  the  conscience  free,  so  far  i  am  wi:h  him.  But 
1  see  the  dangerous  tendencies  of  the  exercise  of  this  power; 
and  cannot  consent  to  give  it  to  them. 

Mr.  Whitman.  Mr.  President — 1  could  not  have  believed  that 
the  amendment  I  proposed  would  have  excited  such  fears.  I 
did  not  imagine  it  could  possibly  be  so  tortured  as  to  frighten 
gentlemen  out  of  their  wits.  I  could  not  perceive  that  such  dan- 
ger would  have  arisen  from  it,  or  that  ii  was  fraught  with  the 
evils  imagined,  or  I  would  immediately  withdraw  it. 

The  amendment  was  but  a  transcript  from  the  Bill  of  Rights 
of  Massachusetts,  under  which  we  had  lived,  in  perfect  security, 
ibr  nearly  forty  years — and  it  was  without  any  of  the  obnoxious 
provisions  which  accompanied  it  in  that  Bib  of  Rights.  It  is 
without  the  provision  that  every  person  shall  be  obliged  to  at- 
tend on  some  religious  instruction,  and  to  pay  somewhere  for  it; 
or  to  con)pel  towns  and  parishes  to  support  religious  instruction. 
We  have  (said  Mr.  W.)  already  adopted  every  salrguard  a- 
gamst.  oppression.  We  have  provided  that  there  i^hall  tje  no 
preference  of  one  sect  to  another  ;  and  have  secured  relii^ious 
freedom  in  its  fullest  extent  ;  and  there  we  are  to  stop.  Reli- 
gion is  certainly  not  only  valuable  in  itselt  as  it  respects  the 
prospects  of  our  future  welfare,  but  ii  is  conducive  to  the  best 
interests  of  civil  society.  The  government  which  is  best  admin- 
isteredis  best :     and  government    cannot  be  well   administered 


85 

where  the  morals  of  the  people,  and  their  rulers  are  corrupt : 
and  in  what  way  can  we  be  sure  of  good  morals  without  the  aid 
of  religion.^  It  not  only  inculcates  the  best  of  principles,  but 
rivets  them  upon  the  mind.  It  is  the  duty  therefore  of  civil 
government,  to  adopt  the  best  means  (or  the  preservation  of  the 
morals  of  the  people.  We  all  know  the  efifects  of  a  virtuous  ed- 
ucation. We  have  all  experienced  the  utility  of  public  re'igious 
instruction.  The  early  instructions  we  receive  in  private  and 
in  public  sink  deep  in  the  youthtul  mind  ;  and  grow  with  their 
growth  pnd  strengthen  wi?h  their  strength.  If  then,  morals  de- 
pend on  religion  and  the  support  of  civd  government  u{)on  mor- 
als, is  it  not  the  duty  of  every  government,  by  all  suitable  mean?, 
to  uphold  and  encourage  the  institutions  (or  public  instruction  in 
the  princij>les  of  religion  ?  What  would  be  ihe  situatiim  of  any 
governnipnt  wilhout  religion  ?  How  much  depends  on  the  obli- 
gations of  an  oath  ?  What,  but  for  (his,  would  I;e  the  situation  of 
our  tribunals  of  Justjce  ?  Wilhout  this  sanction  they  would  be 
but  engines  of  oppression.  Shall  civil  government  Ihen,  the 
administration  of  whicii  has  iis  basis  in  religion,  refuse  to  it  the 
aid  of  its  e  icouragpfnent  ?  Will  you  tie  the  hands  of  ytiur  Legis- 
lature, and  deprive  it  of  all  power  to  promote  your  best  good  ? 

The  alarms  of  my  colleague,  continued  Mr.  W.  are  ground- 
less. 1  am  astonished  that  he  j-hould  not  discern  whr.t  will  be 
the  import  of  this  article  should  this  amendment  be  adopted. 
No  single  provision  taken  by  itselt\  and  disconnected  with  every 
other.  Out  may  be  distorted,  and  made  what,  if  taken  in  connec- 
tion wi  h  the  residue,  it  would  not  mean.  Let  this  amendment 
be  adopted,  and  the  possibility  of  an  undue  exercise  of  power 
will,  by  tlie  piovisions  already  adopted,  be  so  guarded  that  this 
amendment  will  but  furnish  a  salutary  power,  which  ought  to 
be  lodged  somewhere.  Pious  donations  may  be  made  to  soci- 
eties and  acis  of  incorporation  of  Trustees  for  their  management 
may  be  necessary  :  without  which  the  benevolent  intention  of 
the  donors  cannot  be  carried  into  effect.  .And  shall  yoor  Le- 
gislature afford  them  no  aid  ?  And  is  it  mt  Mided  that  the  Legis- 
lature shall  never  aid  in  the  cause  of  religion,  for  fear  it  will 
abuse  the  power  ? 

The  argument  of  the  gentleman  from  Alfred  (Mr.  Holmes) 
would  go  to  the  destruction  of  all  power  in  any  body  of  men 
whatever.  There  is  no  power  but  may  be  abused  Yet  we 
arc  about  to  entrust  our  Legislature  with  our  lives  and  fortunes. 
hnay  create  offences  and  annex  penalties  in  any  number  and 
8 


86 

to  any  degree :  And,  yet,  you  cannot  entiust  it  with  fonccr  to 
encourage  and  uphold  religion  !  a  power  which  n«ver  has  been 
abn-^ed  under  the  constiliition  of  Massachusetts  ;  and  which  we 
may  safely  calculate  will  never  be  abused  under  our  own.  Are 
we  growing  less  enlightened  and  less  liberal?  Can  we  doubt 
that  our  legislators — nien  of  our  own  choosing — who  must  be 
subject  to  the  laws  they  make — who  are  to  be  elected  for  short 
periods  and  are  then  to  return  to  the  mass  of  the  people — can 
we  doubt  that  the  power  to  encourage  and  uphold  the  institu- 
tions for  public  instruction  would  be  sale  in  sucb  hands  ? 

Mr.  VV.  said  he  believed  he  had  never  been  suspected  or  ac- 
cused of  religious  bigotry  or  iiitoleiancr — that  from  experience 
and  observation,  he  had  been  made  to  believe  the  suppoit  of  any 
sect  or  denoniination  of  christians,  seriously  believed  to  be  such, 
would  be  pielerable  to  the  support  of  no  religion.  He  would 
therefore  cheerfully  afl'ord  them  all  equal  encouragement  and 
support.  Although  religion,  as  it  lespects  individuals,  may  be 
a  question  between  man  and  his  maker,  civil  society,  uevertht- 
less,  as  such,  may  and  ought  to  derive  trom  il  evtiv  possible 
advantage,  consistent  with  the  rights  of  conscience.  AVith  this 
view,  i(  with  no  other,  il  is  the  first  duty  of  every  goveinment 
to  encourage,  uphold  and  maintain  it.  Mr.  W.  hoped,  there- 
fore, that  an  amendment  so  innocent,  and  intended  to  confer  a 
power  so  desirable,  encircled  as  ii  would  be  by  so  niany  bar- 
riers against  an  abuse  (>f  il,  viould  not  be  refused  to  ibis  consti- 
tution. 

There  have  Indeed  been  complaints  of  the  exf  rci^e  of  this 
power  by  the  Legislature  of  Matrsaehusetls,  in  grar.ling  lands  to 
the  first  religious  society  ir^  new  towns.  'J  Ins  has  generally 
given  those  lands  to  Congregationalists,  but  it  was  anadvetUiiious 
circumstance,  irom  their  having  l)een  the  first  rei!gi(;us  i-ociely 
in  the  towns.  But  when  any  other  sect,  as  the  Baptists,  have 
been  the  first  society,  they  have  had  the  benefit  of  thii  provisrion. 
Judge  Thaclier.  He  could  not  see  the  danger  so  ntuch  appre- 
hended by  souje  gentlemen. — He  confessed  he  feaiifd  none  of 
them. — they  were  to  him  merely  imaginary.  As  far  as  he  could 
iindeistand  the  grounds  of  the  evils  so  ir.uch  depiecaled,  they 
seemed  to  be  founded  on  a  general  idea  (hat  the  moral  a7'd  jjo- 
lineal  worlds  zvere  retrograde  on  the  scale  o/  rmproveinent.  and 
that  man  mas  growing  worse  and  worse.  Ihis  was  not  his 
creed. — Neilher*the  history  he  had  read,  or  his  own  observation 
for  more  than  fifty  years,  gave  any  counletiance  to  such  notions. 


8t 

He  doubted  whether  any  Legislature  would  be  convened  undet 
this  Constitution  for  a  cenlury  to  come,  or  during  the  existence 
of  t^e  Constitution,  Uiat  would  be  less  disposed  to  consult,  and 
act  for  the  common  welfare  than  this  Conveniion  now  are  ;  and 
he  would  declare  to  them  individually  that  he  had  a  very  strong 
persuasion  of  their  good  intentions  to  save  the  public.  We  did 
not  distrust  ourselves  ;  why  then  sliall  we  disiru?t  our  future 
legislators,  m  those  things,  of  which  their  future  situation 
will  probably  enable  thesn  to  form  a  more  correct  estimate 
than  we  can  now  do  ?  Let  us  look  back  in  the  old  nations  for 
five  hundred  years  ;• — to  the  invention  of  printing  and  the  com- 
Hiercial  uses  of  the  magnet ; — do  we  not  find  a  gradual  improve- 
ment in  every  thing  pertaining  to  the  happiness  of  society,  and 
I  might  almost  say  to  the  actual  amelioration  of  the  nature  of 
man  himself?  In  how  many  instances  do  we  see  laws,  made  to 
prevent  crimes  repealed  or  become  entirely  obsolete,  because 
the  moral  state  of  society  has  rendered  it  impossible  for  the 
crimes  to  exist  ?  Are  we  not  improving  from  year  to  year,  and 
are  not  our  laws  niore  and  more  ad,ipted  to  the  free  exercise  of 
all  the  natural  rights  of  man  and  particularly  so  as  to  religious 
rights  2  A^  evidesice  of  this,  he  referred  gentlemen  to  a  candid 
review  and  comparison  of  the  ancient  colonial,  provincial  and 
the  Commonwealth  system  of  laws. 

The  vote  was  then  taken  on  accepting  Mr. VVhitman's  amend- 
ment, and  it  was  decided  in  the  negative. 

Mr  Hobb-,  of  Berwick,  said  he  had  it  in  his  mind  to  move  to 
have  the  last  p^rt  of  the  section  stricken  out  ;  but  as  gentlemen 
seemed  disposed  to  retain  it  as  it  is,  he  would  wish  to  have  an 
addition  m  jde  to  it  ;  and  moved  that  the  following  amendment 
be  adopted,  viz.  :  *'  Nor  shall  any  one  ever  be  obliged  to  pay 
any  tax,  or  rate  for  the  building,  or  repairing  any  meeting- house 
or  placeof  worship,  contrary  to  his  own  voluntary  engagement.'* 

Mr.  Holmes.  The  committee  had  this  subject  under  consid- 
eration. But  we  concluded  it  would  be  going  too  far.  To 
say  that  a  man  should  not  be  compelled  to  aid  in  building  a 
house  of  worship  unless  he  had  given  his  consent,  would  be  to 
destroy  all  corporate  powers.  Shall  a  man  lay  by,  and  if  the 
place  or  construction  of  the  building  does  not  exactly  suit  him^ 
be  exempt  because  be  did  not  vote  ?  Most  surely  this  man  ought 
to  be  bound  by  all  the  lavfful  acts  of  tlie  corporation,  so  long  as 
he  continues  a  member. 

The  motion  was  negatived. 


ti8 

The  question  vyas  then  taken  on  adopting  the  third  section, 
as  aintnded,  and  it  passed  in  the  affirnjative.  Adjourned. 

AFTERJVOOf^.-^The  4ih  station  vi^s  t?ken  up. 

Mr.  Holmes  moved  to  amend  the  concluding  clause,  which 
read  *'  in  ail  indjcimenls  for  libel«,  'he  Ju^y  shall  have  a  right 
to  determine  the  law  and  the  Juct  under  the  direction  oj  the  conrt,^^ 
so  as  to  read  **  theJury^  after  having  rtceiveU  the  direction  of  the 
couit,  shall  have  a  right  to  determve,  at  their  discteiion,  the  law 
and  the/act,^' 

Judge  Thacher  said,  he  did  not  know  whelher  he  had  any 
feelings  on  this  sul  ject  that  aniounied  to  a  predeliction  for  the 
amendment,  or  the  arlicle  as  reported.  He  could  not  see  how 
it  could  be  a  question  of  niuch  importance  whether  the  jury  de- 
cided before  or  after  die  charj^e,  if  their  fi'idir^^  svas  to  settle  (he 
law.  In  all  cases  IJje  jury  give  such  a  verdict  as  thfy  please  ; 
but  if,  on  a  correct  statemtnt  o*  the  evidence  by  ih*  court,  it 
appears  their  verdict  is  contrary  to  the  law  of  the  h^i^d^  the 
court  set  aside  the  verdict  and  put  the  csnse  i'>  a  n^w  trtal. 
This  right  of  the  court  has  been  acknowleo'ijed  \u  England  from 
ihe  earliest  history  of  the  law,  and  in  tiiis  country  f*  ?t)  its  first 
settlement.  He  said  he  saw  no  g»iod  reaj-on  for  making  a  djs- 
:inction  between  actions  or  indictuiefas  fur  libels,and  olher  caus- 
es of  actions  and  other  crimes.  He  said  his  exptiierce  did  not 
warrant  a  conclusion  that  it  was  a  case  of  sufficient  importance 
(o  engage  the  attention  of  the  Convention.  When  at  the  b?»r  he 
had  been  engaged  in  a  faw  causes  cf  iiUels ;  and  had  been  on 
Jhe  bench  whun  one  or  two  indicUnents  lor  libels  were  tried  ; 
ihey  weie  cases  of  no  great  importance  ;  nor  did  he  see  any 
hing  in  their  natures  diat  ought  lo  e?cite  moie  feeling  and  in- 
itrest  than  other  causes  of  action  ot  the  same  value  in  point  of 
property.  When  at  the  bar  he  argued  them  as  he  did  olher 
oauses  ;  and  on  the  bench  he  felt  no  otherwise  than  he  did  o» 
'.^iher  trials  ;  he  endeavoured  to  decide  on  the  adniiss  on  of  ev- 
idence cs  he  did  in  other  causes,  according  to  the  general  rules 
of  evidence,  and  in  summing  up  to  thejuiy,he  felt  the  .same 
disposition  to  be  impartial  as  in  all  other  cases  It  was  a  fnct, 
some  people  were  apt  to  work  themselves  up  to  a  fever  heat  lo 
c-inses  thai  rarely  hi^ppen,  be  the  subject  in  dispute  of  great  or 
.small  value  in  point  of  prcperty  ;  but  he  saw  no  reason  lor  Bilk- 
ing any  constitutional  provision  on  the  general  i-ubjrct  ot  libeJs, 
rather  than  any  other — He  thought  it  better  to  coi  fide  in  men 
sikilled  in  a  particular  subject  than  in  those  vrho  were  not.  Ibis 


89 

is  as  proper  when  applied  to  lawyers  and  judges,  as  to  other  pro- 
fes«<ions  and  arts  in  coinmon  life.  He  who  has  made  a 
p=jrticular  science,  art  or  trade,  his  long  study  and  practice  is 
more  liKely  to  form  a  correct  judgment  in  the  subject  submitted 
to  bun  than  a  mere  stranger  to  that  course  of  life.  In  the  prac- 
tice ot  medicine  and  where  liie  and  health  are  concerned,  whom 
do  we  consult,  a  phy.^cian,  or  one  who  has  never  made  the 
question  of  health  and  disease,  and  the  materia  medica  his  study  ? 
ifaman  is  about  buiidisg  a  hou?e,  he  would  be  mere  likely 
to  enquire  of  a  house- wright,  than  a  mere  farmer  or  fisherman — 
and  who  is  more  likely  to  know  the  law,  the  court  who  have 
spent  all  their  days  in  its  study  and  practice,  or  the  jury  who 
may  or  may  not  have  heard  one  or  more  actions  tried  m  which 
they  felt  no  particular  interest  and  had  no  cause  to  pay  much 
attention  to  it  ? 

Judge  Green.  Mr  President — I  think  the  motion  may  with 
safety  and  propriety  pass.  I  was  somewhat  alarmed  at  the  prop- 
osition in  the  forenuon,  which  went  to  strike  out  entirely.  Af- 
ter ihe  evidence  is  gone  through  with  at  the  trial,  it  is  consider- 
ed to  be  the  duty  of  ihe  court  to  sum  up  the  facts  and  to  instruct 
the  jury  in  the  law  and  explain  it  to  them.  The  first  amendment 
went  to  take  this  duty  from  the  court.  The  present  amendment 
leaves  it  tor  the  jury  to  decide  the  law  as  well  as  the  fact.  They 
are  to  be  leit  at  their  di-icreiion,  after  having  received  the  law 
from  the  court.  This  is  iherefore  such  an  amendment  as  would 
be  perfectly  agreeable  to  me. 

Sectiorj  5th  passed  without  amendment  or  debate. 

Section  6th  being  read  ;  Mr.  Neal,  of  Elliot,  moved  to  amend 
it  by  adding  the  words  '*  or  either,'^  to  the  first  clause,  consider- 
ing that  as  it  then  stood  without  them,  a  man  was  obliged  to  ap- 
pear by  counsel  or  he  could  not  le  heard, 

Mr.  Holmes  said  be  was  surprised  to  hear  this  objection.  In 
the  Constitution  of  Massachu.-'etts  ?he  provision  is  that  a  man 
may  be  heard  by  himself  or  counsel,  and  it  might  be  said  he 
could  not  appear  by  himself  ^fit/ counsel.  But  ^his  provision 
was  intended  to  give  a  man  a- right  to  appear  by  himself  and  his 
counsel  both  ;  and  as  the  right  to  appear  by  himself  cannot  be 
taken  from  him,  this  gives  him  all  that  is  asked  for. 

The  moUon  prevailed,  162  rising  tn  favor,and  106  against  it,; 
and  the  section  passed  as  amended. 

On  section  7ih  being  read,  Judge  Thacher  enquired  why  otk 


90 

ther  crimes  besides  capital  and  infamous  ones  should  not  be  pre- 
sented, &c. 

Mr  Holmes  replied  ;  That  by  the  Constitution  of  Massachu- 
setts  there  is  no  provision  for  the  presentment  of  any  crime  by  a 
grand  jury.  But  it  seemed  hi*hly  necessary,  that  capital  and 
inlanH>us  offences  should  be  investigated  by  a  grand  jury.  There 
are  other  minor  crimes  which  it  is  not  so  important  should  un- 
dergo this  investigation. 

Mr.  Wallingford  observed,  that  magistrates,  by  the  law  as  it 
now  stands,  have  the  power  to  punish  petty  larceny  and  other 
offences  which  are  infamous.  This  section  will  take  that  power 
from  them  which  it  may  be  desirable  for  them  to  exercise. 

Mr.  Holmes  proposed  to  insert  the  words  *'  or  in  such  cases 
of  offences,  as  are  usually  cognizable  by  a  Justice  of  the 
Peace"  (which  were  not  in  the  repori  )  This  would  meet  the 
wishes  of  the  gentleman  last  up,  and  answer  the  purpose  requir- 
ed     This  amendment  was  accepted. 

Judge  Thacher  enquired  into  the  meaning  of  the  provision 
relating  to  the  trial  oi  militia,  4*c.  in  time  of  war  and  public  dan- 
ger. 

Mr.  Holmes  said  public  danger,  in  this  section,  means  a  state 
of  rebellion,  or  in^pending  invasion.  The  nilitia  are  to  be  called 
out  to  repel  the  threatened  invasion,  or  to  suppress  the  rebellion. 
They  are  not  then  entitled  to  a  trial  by  jury.  They  are  under 
martial  law,  when  called  out  for  the  public  safety,  although  not 
in  time  of  war. 

Judge  Cony  suggested  an  amendment,  in  the  last  sentence, 
after  the  words  '*  The  Legislature  shall  provide,''  to  insert 
**  by  law^^  (not  in  the  report  )  Ibis,  remarked  the  Judge,  re- 
gards a  subject  of  very  great  importance,  and  the  Legislature 
ought  not  only  to  provide  for  a  mode  of  selecting  juries,  but  to 
do  it  by  standing  laws.     The  amendment  was  adopted. 

The  7th  section  then  passed  without  a  diviiion  ;  as  did  the 
8th,  9th  and  10th  sections. 

Section  1  Ith  was  read,  and  Mr.  Baldwin,  of  Mercer,moved  to 
amend,  by  striking  out  the  words  **  ex  post/acto  law,"  and  in- 
serting in  lieu  thereof  the  following  : — "  Laws  enacted  for  the 
punishment  of  crimes,  committed  before  the  existence  ot  such 
law?,  and  by  them  on'y  deemed  criminal,  are  oppressive,  un- 
just and  incompatible  with  liberty  ;  wherefore  no  such  law  shall 
be  made  or  exist  in  this  State." 

Mr.  Baldwin  gave  his  reasons  at  some  length  in  support  of  this 


91 

^amendment.  He  said  every  man  has  a  right  to  know  what  his 
rights  are.  But  the  people  in  his  part  of  the  country  did  not 
understand  Latin,  as  he  supposed  the  words  ex  post  facto  were  ; 
and  it  would  be  with  an  ill  grace  we  shall  tell  our  children  we 
do  not  know  their  meaning — the  meaning  of  the  constitution  we 
have  been  forming. 

Mr.  Holmes.  We  were  so  fortunate,  as  to  have  the  benefit  of 
these  same  observations  in  committee.  There  {he.  gentleman 
betrayed  no  ignorance  of  the  expression.  I'here  was  no  sub- 
ject learned  or  unlearned  which  escaped  him.  This  extreme 
modesty  must  have  induced  him  to  feign  an  ignorance  which  he 
does  not  possess.  The  expression  is  perfectly  understood  by 
the  gentleman,  and  he  proved  it  by  offering  a  translation  as  a 
substitute.  It  is  a  little  singular  that  the  words  habeas  corpus 
escaped  the  gentleman's  criticism.  That  too  is  a  Latin  expres- 
sion. Why  did  he  not  propose  to  translate  that  ?  Sir,  the  gen- 
tleman does  not  want  a  translation. 

The  amendment  was  negatived. 

Mr.  Wallingford  moved  to  strike  out  the  words    "  and  no  at- 
'  tainder  shall  work  corruption  of  blood  nor  forfeiture  of  estate." 

Mr.  Holmes.  Mr.  President — I  will  satisfy  the  gentleman 
that  his  objection  is  groundless.  A  hill  of  attainder  is  a  legisla- 
tive act,  convicting  or  attaining  particular  persons  or  particular 
offences.  These  legislative  attainders  are  prohibited,  as  in  the 
highest  degree  tyrannical.  That  which  is  regulated  in  the  lat- 
ter part  of  the  section  is  ^  judicial  attainder.  General  laws  will 
define  the  crimes  and  prescribe  the  punishment,  and  if  the  pun- 
ishment be  infamous^  the  offender  is  attained  by  the  judgment. 
Such  an  attainder  may  still  attach,  but  it  shall  in  no  case  '*  work 
corruption  of  blood  or  forfeiture  of  estate." 

After  some  explanations  by  the  mover  and  Judge  Thacher,the 
motion  was  rejected. 

The  lllh  section  and  the  following  sections  to  the  19th  inclu- 
sive, then  passed  without  division. 

Section  20th  was  amended  on  motion  of  Mr.  Neal,  (of  E.) 
hy  adding  ^'  the  party  claimim^  the  right  may  be  heard  by  himself 
and  his  counsel  or  either .,04  his  election, ^^ 

Judge  Thacher  moved  to  strike  out  the  words  ''  concerning 
property." 

Judge  Bridge,  of  Augusta,  thought  the  words  ought  to  be 
struck  out.  There  are  other  controversies,  said  he,  besides  those 
concerning  property,  as  those  concerning  reputation,  4'C* 

Judge  Parris  made  a  similar  remark. 


92 

Mr  Holmes  said,  T  consid<;r  the  portions  of  the  section  as  dis- 
tinct ;  there  are  civil  suits,  and  coniroverfcies  conceining  proper- 
ty. Tbe^e  are  cases  which  are  not  merel}'  civil,  nor  merely 
criminal.  I  therefore  move  to  insert  after  *'  surts"  *'  in  all." 
Thi.*  amen(tment  was  ado[)ted  and  the  section  passed  as  amended. 

Mr.  Millikin,  of  Frankfort,  njoved  to  amend  the  2l?t  section, 
by  inserting  after  the  word  ''  suits" — ''  nor  indvndual  services 
requved,''^  uiih  a  view  to  *be  compensation  of  ttie  militia. 

Mr.  Dickinson,  of  Machias^  and  Judge  I'hacher,  thought  the 
provision  too  general. 

The  motion  was  negatived  136  to  40. 

This  and  the  remaining  sections  then  passed  without  division. 

Fo?ef^,unanimously,  that  the  report  of  the  committee  as  report- 
ed in  part  (the  Declaration  of  Rights)  be  adopted  by  the  Con-- 
vention  as  amended. 

Voted,  on  motion  of  Mr.Hohnes,  that  the  Declaration  of  Rights 
be  committed  to  a  revi-ins:  con-jmitfee. 

Messrs.  Holmes,  Whitman,  and  Johnson,  of  Belfast,  were  ap- 
pomted  said  committee. 

The  committee  of  elections  reported  that  Mr.  Whitney,  of 
LincolnviIle,was  entitkd  to  his  seat.  Accepted.  And  the  Con- 
vention Adjourned. 


WEDNESDAY,  OCT.  20. 

Col.  Aiherton,  of  Prospect,  moved  that  the  following  be 
adopted  as  an  additional  section,  in  the  Declaration  of  Rights  : 

*♦  No  law  shall  be  made  by  which  any  mdividual  may  be 
subjected  to  the  performance  of  any  militia  duties,  from  which, 
or  a  direct  equivalent,  any  white  male  inhal  i'ant,  of  respectable 
character,  and  o(  the  same  age,   is  by   a   law  of  the  State  ex- 


empted *'' 


Head,  and  ordered  to  lie  on  the  table. 

The  same  gentleman  then  offered  the  following  resolution  : — 

*'  Resolved^  That  a  committee  of  nine,  one  from  each  county, 
be  appointed  to  take  into  consideration  the  expediency  of  lo- 
eating  tiie  spat  of  gover-nment  for  years,  and  to  designate 

the  place  tnost  suiiable  for  that  purpose,  and  also  for  the  first 
meeting  of  the  Legislature  of  the  new  State,  and  for  the  organi- 
zation of  ils  government;  and  that  the  said  committee  be  in- 
structed to  report  previous  to  the  final  question  being  taken,  on 
ihi^  acceptance  of  the  whole  constitution." 

Oen.  Chandler  regretted  that  the  subject  was  brought  up.at 


93 

this  time,  and  hoped  no  time  would  be  assigned  to  take  the  sub- 
ject into  consideration,  at  least,  not  until  the  constitution  is  com- 
pleted. The  teelmgs  of  gentlemen  would  be  enlis^ted,  and  he 
feared  the  great  object  would  be  lost  sight  of,  by  discussing  one 
of  minor  consequf  nee  at  an  improper  time.  And  he  did  hope, 
that  nothing  would  take  place  which  should  interfere  with  the 
important  business  of  the  constitution. 

Judge  Thacher.  I  think  it  should  not  be  considered  until 
we  have  finished  the  constitution  —We  are  then  to  determine 
where  the  first  meeting  of  the  Legislalure  is  to  beheld.  To 
consider  it  now  would  obstruct  the  completion  of  the  principal 
business  of  the  Convention. 

The  resolution  w?s  th^n  ordered  to  lie  on  ihe  table. 
THE  COjYSTITUTIOJW 

ARTICLE    II.       ELECTORS. 

Section  1  was  takf?n  hito  consideration. 

Mi.  ir  ni?^  Tivv<"d  to  amend  ♦'li'?  section  by  insetting  the 
wor-Js  ^'jor  th-ee  months  next  prectduig  any  eledioji,'**  which 
were  noi  m  the  iep)rt 

This  amen  tnent  passed  without  discussion  or  remaik. 

M".  Sheplev.  A  :>  ico  moved  to  insert  **  tho.fe  who  have  been 
convicted  of  any  in/citno us  crime  and  not  pardoned ^^"^  to  be  aoted 
to  those  pj^rsous  excf  pted  from  being  electors  for  G(>ve»nor,  4rc. 

Jijflge  Ttiacher  said,  he  hoped  the  acnendment  would  not  be 
agreed  to;  because  conviction  before  iusiices  of  the  Pface  is 
not  a  certain  criterion  that  the  su'iject  of  the  tri^l  was  a  felony, 
or  an  mlamous  crime.  He  hid  known  many  cases  where  per- 
sons had  been  convicted  before  a  Justice  of  the  Peace,  of  felo- 
niously taking  and  stealing  the  piopprty  of  another,  and  fined  by 
the  Justice,  when  the  case,  being  fully  and  fairly  examined  by 
persons  sufficiently  a^qu-nnttd  with  the  distinction  betv^een 
trespass  and  stealing,  it  would  appear  that  nothing  infamous  had 
been  done — it  was  a  mere  trespass  b^  one  on  the  property  of 
another — or  a  di-pute  between  two  persons  as  to  the  »i  le  to  a 
particular  piece  of  properly — many  examples  of  which  he  had 
been  acqunijted  with  in  the  course  of  his  practice,  and  would 
detail  to  ihe  Convention  if  requiied.  Should  the  amendment 
be  agreed  to,  it  might  place  the  presiding  officers  at  elections 
in  an  unpleasant  situation  A  voter  being  charged  at  an  elec- 
tion wi'li  having  been  convicted,  &,c.  how  shall  it  be  tried  ?  The 
conviction  may  be  stated  as  taken  place  in  a  foreign  country.— 
If  a  paper  is  produced,  purporting  to  be  a  copy  of  a  conviction 


94 

as  proof  of  the  fact ;  and  the  voter  shall  say,  and  offer  his  oatb, 
that  It  is  a  forgery,  what  shall  be  done  ?  Suppose  a  lad  eight, 
nine  or  ten  years  of  age,  should  in  fact  be  convicted  before  St 
Justice  of  the  Peace  of  felony  on  a  nest  of  hen's  eggs,  or  some 
trifling  piece  of  property  ;  and  afterwards  become  a  good  and 
worthy  member  of  society,  will  this  Convention  declare  him 
forever  after  unworthy  the  privilege  of  voting  in  these  elections  ? 
He  hoped  not.  There  are  many  deviations  from  rectitude  in  youth 
that  ought  to  he  tbrgotlen  and  fo'given  when  the  regularity  of, 
riper  year?  have  made  atonement  by  a  regular  and  virtuous  life. 

Judge  Cony.  Mr.  Pre^iJent — I  am  not  prepared  to  vote  for 
the  proposition  of  the  gentleman  from  Saco.  If  we  adopt  this 
amendment,  it  will  carry  us  too  far.  The  object  of  the  mover 
is  to  preserve  the  purity  of  elections.  This  is  certainly  very 
desirable  ;  but  we  should  not  extend  it  beyond  proper  limits. 
The  man  who  has  been  convicted  of  a  crime  may  repent  of  his 
misdeeds,  and  become  a  reformed  man  and  useful  member  of 
society.  The  most  infamou:s  characters  may  be  pardoned. — 
But  if  he  be  really  reformed,  it  would  be  hard  to  deprive  him  of 
a  right  so  dear  to  him. 

Mr.  Usher  thought  it  would  be  productive  of  difficulty  and 
inconvenience  in  its  operations.  It  would  embarrass  presiding 
officers  at  elections,  by  making  it  the  duty  of  selectnjen  to  in- 
quire too  closely  into  men's  characters. 

Mr.  Wallingibrd  agreed  with  the  gentleman  in  his  moiive,  but 
presumed  he  had  not  considered  the  objections  that  may  be 
raised  against  his  amendment.  The  seleclmen  of  towriJ*  were 
a  v*^ry  improper  tribunal  to  decide  on  the  characters  of  citizens, 
or  to  determine  that  a  man  stood  convicted  ot  an  infamous  crime. 
A  copy  of  the  record  of  his  conviction  beture  a  Juslice  ol  the 
PfHCe  might  be  pn)duced,  to  substantiate  the  fact,  but  that  would 
be  inconclusive,  as  the  judgment  might  have  been  reverst^d  in  ^ 
a  higher  Court. 

Mr.  Shepley  was  in  favor  of  the  amend^Dent,  rot  only  because 
it  ?ended  to  preserve  the  purity  of  elections,  but  also  for  the 
g'ud  effects  it  was  calculated  to  produce  in  the  community, 
without  regard  to  elections.  Young  persons  nould  be  n  ore 
cautious  of  committing  crimes,  and  Courts  would  be  more  care- 
ful of  convictions,  when  they  saw  such  consequences  as  the  re- 
sult. He  apprehended  there  was  not  much  weight  in  the  ob- 
jections which  gentlemen  bad  made.  As  to  the  cases  of  im- 
proper convictions,  before  Justices,  which  sometimes  happen^ 


95 

every  one  has  the  right  of  appeal,  and  may  have  the  judgment 
reversed.  He  saw  no  difficulty  in  selectmen's  deciding  by  the 
record  with  sufficient  certainty,  when  a  nrjan  has  been  convicted 
of  an  infamous  crisne.  If  he  offers  lo  vote,  he  cannot  be  re- 
jected unless  a  copy  of  his  conviction,  from  the  Court  where  it 
was  had,  was  produced  ;  and  if  he  were  pardoned,  or  the  Judg- 
[nent  reversed,  he  might  have  the  evidence  of  it  in  his  possession. 
Dr.  Phi'Ips,  of  Weld,  said,  he  hoped  the  motion  would  not 
prevail,  as  it  would  be  productive  of  iiiconveniences  in  town 
meetirr2;5.  How  are  we  to  decide  at  the  time  of  elections, 
whether  a  person  has  been  convicted  or  not  ?  He  may  not  al- 
ways have  the  evidence  of  his  pardon  with  him,  or  a  town  the 
evidence  of  his  conviction.  If  a  vote  were  given  in  by  him,  and 
it  were  afterwards  ascertained  that  he  was  not  enHlled  to  vote, 
the  election  might  be  considered  illegal. 
The  motion  was  negatived. 

Mr.  Vance,  of  Calais,  moved  to  insert  *'  Negroes''^  after  '*  In- 
dians not  taxed." 

Mr.  Holmes.  The  *'  Indians  not  taxed"  were  excluded  not 
on  account  of  their  coloui,  but  of  their  political  condition.  They 
are  under  the  protection  of  the  State,  but  they  can  make  and 
execute  their  own  laws.  They  have  never  been  considered 
members  of  the  body  politic.  JBut  1  know  o(  no  difference  be- 
tween the  rights  of  the  negro  and  the  white  mai] — God  Al- 
mighty has  made  none — Our  Declaration  of  Rights  has  made 
none.  That  declares  that  *'  all  men"  (without  regard  to  col- 
ours) '*  are  born  equally  {ree;  and  independent." 

Mr.  Vance  and  Dr.  Rose  spoke  in  favour  of  ihe  motion,  but 
it  did  not  obtaui. 

Gen.  Chandler  was  in  favour  of  striking  out  •*  eslabHshed," 
and  inserting  ^' he  has,''  to  which  Mr.  Holmes  objected,  and 
explained  the  reasons  which  induced  the  €oiiimilt«  e  lo  adopt 
llie  expression,  /jnd  the  motion  was  withdrawn. 

Col.  Moody,  of  Saco,  thought  the  |.ro\i'ion  of  the  Constitu- 
tion of  Massachusetts,  was  heiU'V  than  that  of  this  nrtscle.  The 
word  "  inhabitant"  was  well  known — its  meaiii;  g  was  well  un- 
derstood, and  no  one  could  mistake  it  ;  he  would  therefore  fjro- 
po.->p  to  substitute  it,  for  the  words,  **  hi-i  residence  established." 
Mr.  Preble  thought,  if,  inste^id  of '*  residence  established," 
we  insert  '*  where  he  dwelleth  and  h^th  hi<  house,"  it  would 
obviate  the  difficulty.  Tliis  phrase  has  t">een  familiar  to  us  a 
great  number  of  years.     It  is  definite  and  precise,  and  has  for 


96 

a  long  lime  had  a  construction  which  is  well  known  to  all.  The 
word  *'  established,"  was  more  liahle  to  quibbling  and  uncer- 
tainty as  to  its  meaning,  and  we  .should  have  to  resort  to  other 
langttage  for  its  meaning.  Much  dilTiculty  arises  in  tiiiies  of 
pa'ly  spirit,  afiout  voters.  The  qualification  of  property  is  sub- 
ject  to  abuse  from  the  views  of  the  presiding  officers  at  elec- 
tions. But  put  the  language  proposed,  and  the  same  difficulty 
will  not  arise. 

Mr.  Hohnes.  Tlie  very  substilute,  which  the  gentleman  pro- 
poses, Was  avoided  l)y  the  Committee,  on  purpose  to  prevent 
equivocation.  The  word  "  home,"  is  more  mdeiinite  than  the 
one  used, 

Mr.  Adams  thought  the  language  could  not  be  more  definite, 
and  hoped  the  motion  would  not  prevail. 

Mr.  Martin,  of  Camden,  also  opposed  the  moti  )n  ;  and  it  was 
negatived. 

Judge  Thacher  thought  the  word  **  paupers"  in  this  section, 
Bot  sufficiently  definite,  and  doubted  whether  the  distinction 
were  important,  since  persons  without  properly,  are  admitted 
to  the  elective  franchise. 

Mr.  Thocnas,  of  VVells,  moved  lo  add,  after  the  word  "  pau- 
pers," ''  sujiported  by  any  town  ;"  which  amendment  was  not 
accejjted. 

Mr.  Whitman  said,  there  was  cerlairdy  a  vagueness  rn  the 
term  **  paupers,"  and  moved  to  add  '•  during  the  lime  they  are 
stJpported  in  part,  or  in  the  whole,  at  the  public  expense."  This 
would  limit  the  meaning  of  the  phrase,  so  that  it  would  not  be 
jierverted  to  improper  purposes. 

Mr.  Virgin,  of  Rurafurd,  was  opposed  to  the  motion,  if  it 
went  to  exclude  ihe  very  worthy  class  of  citizens,  who  recei\e 
a  pension  for  revolutionary  services. 

Mr.  Whitman  said,  it  would  not  apply  to  pensioners  of  the 
United  States  ;  but  to  quiet  the  appichensions  of  gentlemf  n,  he 
would  add  **  by  the  authority  of  this  State  ;  lo  which  Mi.  Hohnes 
assented.  Col.  Moody  thought  *'  paupers"  d(  finite  eriough  ; — 
and  the  motion  was  lost. 

Mr.  Herrick  (ofB.)  moved  to  add  to  the  end  of  the  seclionj 
(as  it  stood)  '*  nor  shall  the  residence  ot  a  sludent  in  any  semma- 
ry  of  learning  entitle  him  to  the  right  of  suffrage  in  the  town  or 
plantation  where  such  seminary  is  estabiir,hfcd" — which  was  a- 
dopted,  and  the  flection  passed  as  amended. 

CoJ.  Moody  moved  lo  amend  the  2d  section,  by  striking  out 


97 

the  words  after  ''  election.*'  The  object  of  the  section  is  u. 
privilege  electors  from  arrest,  and  he  really  thought,  if  a  man 
W£s  obliged  to  keep  from  the  hands  ot  the  sheiitf  (or  a  time, 
that  he  ought  to  have  the  indulgence  of  breathing  the  air  freely 
on  election  days. 

Judge  Cony,  hoped  the  motion  would  prevail  He  wished 
that  the  day  of  our  elections  might  be  a  day,  in  which  all  our 
citizens  may  enjoy  iheir  rights,  to  their  full  extent. 
*  Judge  Thdcher  observed,  he  thought  it  probable,  that  the 
honorable  n)over,  as  well  as  some  others  who  appeared  to  t'a- 
for  the  amendment,  hul  overlooked  an  imporlani  idea  involved 
ill  this  section,  which  he  would  barely  suggest  to  the  consider- 
a-tion  of  the  Convention  :  it  is  this,  that  whatever  exemption  or 
right  i<  vested  in  the  elector,  is  taken  from  the  rights  of  some 
other  men.  U  we  give  the  dtbtor  the  privilege  of  going  to 
elections,  we  take  from  his  creditors  the  right  they  have  by 
law,  to  arrest  hijn  as  a  means,  and  perhaps  the  only  means,  of 
obtaining  his  just  demand .  He  said  he  saw  no  necessity  or  ex- 
pediency in  interfering,  by  a  constitutional  provision,  in  the  du-  * 
ties  and  rights  of  debtors  and  creditors  at  all.  He  considered  it 
a  matter  of  legislative,  not  of  constitutional  consideration.  He 
could  wish  the  whole  section  were  omitted,  but  be  was  deci- 
dedly ag.'^inst  the  ainentiroent.  It  the  rfght  ot  voting  only  was 
intended  to  be  secured  to  debtors,  this  will  be  sufficiently  done, 
by  protecting  them  while  going  to  the  place  of  eieciion,  during 
the  lime  of  voting,  hearing  the  canvas  proclaimed  by  the  se- 
lectmen, and  then  returning  home.  He  could  invent  no  reason 
or  excuse  for  their  being  protected  longer  than  that.  The  whole 
subject  IS  properly  a  legislative  business.  The  Ltgisiature 
ought  to  have  the  power,  from  time  to  time,  to  regulate  ihe 
whole  process  between  creditor  and  debtor  as  circumstances 
may  require.  He  thought  it  highly  proper  it  should  be  left  to 
their  consideration. 

Mr.  Holmes.  1  hope  the  amendment  will  not  prevail.  If 
we  allow  the  day  of  election  to  be  a  day  of  jubilee,  the  debtor 
may  attend  to  his  ordinary  concerns,  instead  of  attending  elec- 
tions. 

The  motion  did  not  prevail,  and  the  2d  and  3d  sections  pass- 
ed as  reported. 

Mr.  Dickinson  made  an  unsuccessful  motion  to  amend  the  lat- 
ter section,  by  inserting  ''  except  when  called  into  actual  sec- 
vice." 

9 


M 

Sec,  4.  Mr.  Holmes,  moved  to  strike  out  "  Monday,"  and 
insert  '*  Wednesday,"  as  the  day  of  election,  as  the  arrange- 
ments for  that  purpose  are  frequently  attended  to  on  the  Sab- 
bath. 

Col.  Moody  hoped  there  was  virtue  enough  in  the  people  of 
the  new  State,  not  to  violate  the  Sabbalh  for  electioneering  pur- 
poses. There  are  strong  objections  to  the  alteration.  There 
are  many  mechanics,  who  are  in  the  hal  it' of  g(  ing  home  from 
their  labor,  a  cons^iderable  distance,  on  Saturday,  and  returning 
on  Monday  morninsj ;  and  il  would  be  much  more  convenient 
for  them,  to  attend  the  elections  on  that  day,  and  not  to  be  obli- 
ged to  go  home  on  purpose. 

Mr.  Baldwin  s?id,  the  farmers  would  be  equally  incommo- 
ded by  the  alleralion.  They  frequently  want  to  leave  home  in 
the  beginnifjg  of  the  week,  to  go  to  maiket,  or  for  other  purpos- 
es, and  be  absent  for  the  week,  and  this  would  interfere  with 
iheir  business. 

Mr.  Parsons,ofEdgecomb,  said  the  fishermen  were  equally  in- 
terested in  preferiing  Monday,  as  they  generally  go  out  the  first 
of  the  week,  and  return  home  at  the  end  of  it. 

Mr  Holmes  said,  as  three  classes  of  people  had  already 
been  mentioned,  as  e-uffering  iRconvenience  from  the  proposed 
change,  he  would  withdraw  his  motion. 

Mr.  Cutler,  of  Farn  ington,  moved  to  strike  out  '*  Septem- 
ber," and  insert  "  October." 

Gen.  Chandler  hoped  the  motion  would  not  prevail.  By 
the  Constitution,  as  reported,  the  towns  are  to  be  classed  for  the 
purpose  of  choosing  representatives,  and  they  would  therefoie 
need  more  time,  in  case  an  election  is  not  made  the  first  time, 
toconplete  the  election. 

Dr.  Phelps  was  in  favor  of  October,  and  wis-hed  to  have  the 
third,  instead  of  the  second  Monday, 

Mr.  Vance  preferred  September,  lor  the  ressons  given  by 
Gen.  Chandler. 

Mr.  Holmes  said,  it  was  the  object  of  the  committee,  to  fix 
on  a  day  between  the  former  and  iuller  harvest,  as  the  least  bu- 
sy season,  and  they  considered  the  second  Monday  of  Septem- 
ber, ss  comiing  neai'est  that  purpo.^-e. 
The  motion  was  lost. 

Dr.  Phelps  moved  to  strike  out  "  second,"  ar:d  insert ''  third 
Monday."  ■ 

Col.  Moody,   thought  it  best  as  it  stood  ;  the  third  Monday 


99 

eoming  so  near  the  equinox,  the  weather  would  not  probably 
be  so  favorable.  This  motion  was  also  lost,  and  the  fourth  sec- 
tion passed  without  amendment. 

ARTICLE  in. 

DISTRIBUTION  OF  POWERS, 
This  article  passed  without  debate. 

ARTICLE  IV — Pirt  First, 
LEGISLATIVE  POPVER-^House  of  Representatives, 

Sec.  l^t,  passed  without  discussion. 

Sec.  2  J,  in  the  original  report,  contained  only  the  first  sen- 
tence. 

Judge  Bridge.  Mr  President — I  rise  at  this  time,  merely  i© 
make  a  re'Tiark  or  two  on  the  ''  amendment,'*— the  remainder 
of  the  section.  At  the  time  it  was  made,  I  had  strong  objections 
to  it,  which  have  since  been  removed.  I  did  believe,  that  by 
the  amendment,  a  certain  number  of  inhabitants  in  our  county, 
would  elect  a  representative,  whiuh  would  not  have  the  same 
power  in  another  county.  But  as  the  number  is  fixed  in  each 
county,  this  cannot  now  take  place,  if  the  number  is  kept  be- 
low one  hundred  and  fifty  ;  as  1  find  the  apportionment  on  the 
counties  will  be  equal,  or  will  operate  equally. 

Gen.  Chandler.  Mr.  President — Although  the  objections  of 
the  gentleman  are  removed,  my  objections  are  not  removed. 
My  objections  are  to  the  apportionment  of  the  Representatives 
on  the  counties,  and  then  on  the  towns  within  the  county.  I 
will  not  deny,  that  at  the  time  of  the  apportionment,  it  will  be 
equal  ;  but  if  apportioned  to  the  counties  and  towns  only  once 
in  ten  years,  (which  may  be  the  case,)  it  will  be  in  the  result 
unequal.  For  instance,  an  apportionment  is  made  to  day  for 
ten  years  ;  in  the  cvMirse  of  this  tisne,  the  increase  of  popula- 
tion, in  the  counly  of  York,  is  little  or  nothing  ;  it  is  nearly 
stationary.  Whereas,  in  the  county  of  Somerset,  and  other 
new  counties,  the  increase  is  so  rapid,  that  their  population  i5 
almost  doubled  in  ten  years.  Still  these  counties  and  the  towns 
therein,  can  only  be  represented,  until  the  end  of  ten  years, 
according  to  their  population  ten  years  before,  and  i*  will  there- 
fore operate  unequally.  Besides,  if  this  system  of  apportion- 
ing the  representation  on  the  counlies  be  adopte<i,  it  makes  the 
system  more  complex,  and  a  less  number  ot  inhabitants  in  a 
town  in  one  county  will  give  a  representative,  than  it  will  re- 
quire in  a  town  in  another  county,  owii)g  to  the  number  of 
towns  to  apportion  the  representatives  upon. 


100 

It  really  appears  to  me,  that  it  will  be  better  understood,  and 
(hat  it  will  operate  at  least  quite  as  equally,  to  assimilate  the 
system,  in  some  degree,  to  the  old  sysleui.  Let  a  town,  hav- 
ing a  certain  ninnbur  of  inhabitants,  (say  1500  )  be  entitled  to 
one  representative  :  then  it"  you  please,  take  the  ratio  reported 
in  the  third  j^ection  tor  additsonal  n>embers,  and  class  such 
towns  and  planlalions  as  have  not  fit  (ten  hundied  inhabitants, 
until  thus  clashed,  the  class  shall  contain  lliat  number  at  least, 
rind  as  nearly  so  as  »nay  be,  without  dividing  towns  or  planta- 
tions, and  without  first  ap[)orlioning  the' representatives  to  the 
counties  ;  and  let  it  go  tlirougb  the  Slate  in  this  mannei.  In- 
deed, (here  will  odew  be  large  fractions,  after  skiving  a  town 
one  representative,  before  they  vvdl  be  entitled  to  a  second. 
This  lias  heretofore  btcn  the  case,  under  the  old  sysiem,  and 
no  body  was  injured  by  it. 

It  is  very  evident  that  there  is  a  strong  desire  in  this  Con- 
vention, and  wiih  ihe  pe()()le  of  Maine,  to  respect  corporate 
rights,  or  in  other  word^,  fo  adhere  It.  town  re[)re>'entalion  ;  and 
I  confess  1  am  among  Iho/e  who  think  favorably  of  thf  princi 
pie.  And  throwing  away  the  tractions,  which  there  may 
be  over  and  above  the  number  requned  to  send  one  member, 
before  they  can  send  a  second,  is  (Hie  mean?  of  reducing  the 
representation.  And  if  it  is  said  that  large  towns  will  lose  large 
fractions — so  will  small  towns  lose  large  fractions,  before  they 
5:an  be  entitled  to  a  representative,  but  by  classing  wiih  other 
towns.  And  the  large  towns  may  much  sooner  outgrow  the  in- 
convenience than  a  sn^allcr  one.  And  as  I  belie\e  a  moie  lib- 
eral representation  is  also  desired  by  a  portion  of  this  Conven- 
tion, with  a  view  of  getting  rid  of  apportioning  the  representa- 
liveson  counties,  as  well  as  to  limit  the  number  at  thiee  hun- 
dred, instead  of  two  hundred,  I  will  move  to  strike  out  ail  the 
second  section,  after  the  fifth  line,  {"'  the  amendment.") 

Judge  Cony  ro'^e  to  sugges'  that,  as  this  was  the  most  i-npor- 
fant  article  in  ihe  Constitution, whether  it  would  not  be  better  to 
dispense  with  the  rules  of  the  Convention,  that  the  menibers 
might  take  up  the  whole  subject  at  once,  and  discuss  the  sec- 
ond and  third  sections  together. 

Mr.  Holmes  \*islied  for  a  division  upon  the  second  section, 
without  the  amendnient,  in  order  to  sin})lify  the  subject,  and 
observed  that  the  whole   subject  might  be  freely  discussed. 

Judge  Thacher  addressed  ihe  chair  and  said,  he  would  move 
to  strike  out  the  words  "  not  less  than  one  hundred  nor  vwre  than 


two  hundred,''^  not  so  much  because  he  had  made  up  his  mind  t*> 
oppose  these  numbers,  as  the  tvTO  extremes  or  limits  to  the 
Representative  body,  but  to  give  the  members  of  the  Conven- 
tion an  opportunity  to  expfess  their  minds  in  a  cool  and  delib- 
erate discussion  on  the  nature  and  fiiness  of  the  mimher  of  mem- 
bers which  will  be  proper  for  the  House  to  be  composed  oH 
He  said  he  knew  of  only  one  general  position  in  which  all  the 
members  of  the  Convention  and  all  the  people  of  Ihe  territory- 
represented  by  thecn  'Agreed  in  without  a  dissenting  voice — and 
that  was,  that  the  Hou?e  of  Representatives  of  the  Common- 
wealth is  much  too  numerous,  and  that  the  House  of  Represen- 
tatives in  the  new  State  ought  to  be  so  organized  as  in  no  cir- 
cumstances to  bring  in  any  thing  like  such  a  number.  He  said 
he  had  attended,  for  some  time,  to  the  opinions  of  those  he  had 
conversed  with,  and  enquired  of  others,  in  3)1  parts  of  the  terri- 
tory, and  was  able  to  say  the  general  voice  was  that  the  House 
ought  not  to  exceed  one  hundred,  and  none  went  over  one  hun- 
dred and  twenty  or  tbirty, — if  a  mode  of  increase  should  be 
admitted.  He  further  stated,  it  seemed  the  deliberate  opinion 
of  well  informed  men  •f  the  other  pa't  of  the  government,  with 
whom  he  had  lately  conversed,  and  many  who  did  not  belong 
to  the  State,  that  one  hundred  Representatives  would  always 
be  abundantly  adequate  to  all  the  purposes  of  legislation — 
While  many  thought  a  less  number  would  be  better."  For  his 
part  he  was  willing  to  acknowledge  that  he  was  not  capable  of 
laying  down  any  precise  rule  by  which  the  Convention  could 
arrive  at  a  given  number,  and  then  siy,  that  number  was  the 
only  number  best  calculated  for  ihe  ol)ject  of  legislation.  Va- 
rious numbers  had  been  mentioned  from  fifty,  to  one  hundred 
and  fifty.;  very  few  indeed  had  even  supposed  the  Convention 
ought  to  think  of  a  larger  number  tlian  the  last.  But  no  one  was 
ready  to  say,  the  particular  number  he  mentioned  was  in  itself 
better  than  a  number  a  little  hisjheror  lower.  They  had  very 
generally  fixed  on  one  hundred  ;  hut  no  one  could  say  that  num- 
ber would  be  more  suitable  for  legislation  than  ninety  five  and 
one  hundred  and  five.  This  is  a  subject  that  does  not  admit  of 
numerical  precision.  We  can  safely  declare  the  number  ten, 
twenty,  or  thirty  to  be  too  small— and  four,  five  or  six  hundred 
too  large,  and  thus  avoid  injurious  extremes—  while  there  may 
be  many  iHter;nediate  numbers  that  have  no  peculiar  advantage 
over  their  neighbours      For  his  part  he   thought,  however,  the 


danger  was,  that  the  Convention  will  ultimately  fix  on  too  large^ 
father  than  too  small  a  number. 

But  he  continued,  avoiding  the  great  extreme  that  the  States, 
in  general,  throughout  the  Union,  have  been  into  of  having  too 
numerous  Houses — there  were  some  advantages  to  be  derived 
to  the  public  by  what  w\\\  {hen  be  called  a  numerous  House^ 
though  they  tall  considerably  short  of  the  Commonwealth,  and 
of  many  other  Legislatmes.  If  every  town  in  the  district  were 
to  send  one  Representative  By  a  constant  increase  of  towns  the 
House  might  be  thought  too  numerous  ;  yet  many  advantages 
result  from  the  evil — every  member  gains  much  useful  informa- 
tiun  and  carries  it  to  his  town.  The  Legislature  is  an  impor- 
tant school,  and  the  members  from  distant  country  towns  that 
have  but  little  connection  with  the  great  political  world  return 
home  as  teachers  and  school-masters  ;  and  though  these  advan- 
tages cannot  be  estimated  by  dollars  and  cents,  yet  general  ob- 
servation will  satisfy  every  discerning  niind  ihey  are  an  equiv- 
alent to  the  expense.  Much  has  been  said  in  favour  of  a  nu- 
merous representation  because  it  carries  the  feelings,  passions 
and  individual  interests  of  the  people  into  the  legislative  body. 
For  his  part,  the  Judge  said,  he  never  could  estimate  these 
sources  ol  such  information  very  favourable  to  legislation.  A 
legislative  body  does  not  want  either  the  feelings,  interests, 
passions  or  humours  of  individuals.  It  wants  the  calm  judg- 
ment,  sagacious  foresight,  a  knowledge  of  facts  with  a  ready 
power  of  combination — a' very  little  feeling  and  much  common 
sense  will  make  a  good  representative. 

Not  bein^  able  to  fix  on  a  certain  number  as  above  all  others, 
and  exclusively,  the  best,  some  number  between  the  extremes 
must  be  adopted,  and  the  Judge  said,  he  was  inclined  to  take 
some  nuQiber  as  near  to  the  lowest  extreme  as  could  be  agreed 
upon,  he  thought  there  was  less  danger  of  erring  at  that  than 
the  other  extreme.  It  had  been  before  observed  that  twenty  or 
thirty  would  be  too  small,  and  four,  five  or  six  hundred  too 
large.  The  report  of  the  coRimittee  have  fixed  on  a  medium, 
of  not  less  than  on«  hundred  nor  more  than  two  hundred — And 
these  are  to  be  elected  by  towns  and  districts.  He  said  he  had 
always  been  in  favour  of  town  representation,  if  it  could  be  so 
apportioned  as  not  to  be  too  numerous  ;  and  he  certainly  was 
not  for  going  so  far  as  many  rr»ighl  wi^h  who  live  in  large  towns. 
Those  gentlemen  who  are  in  favour  of  the  smallest  nuniber  are 
for  a  distinct  representation.  This,  he  thought,  would  be  at- 
tended with  sosie  inconveniences. — Suppose  one  hundred  rep- 


105 

resentalives  should  be  the  number — then  admitting   the  State 
contains  three  hundred  thousand  inhabitants,  every   three  thou- 
sand will  send  one,  and  the  State  will  be  laid  out  into  one  hun- 
dred districts.    This  will  require  some  towns  to  be  divided  and 
others  to  be  combined  together  to  make  up  the  number  of  votes. 
Perhaps  it  may  be  declared  that  the  State  shall  be  laid  off  into 
districts  corresponding  to  the  county  lines  ;    or  some  other  divi- 
sion, so  as  to  make  twenty,  or  twenty  five   districts,  each  con- 
taining an  equal  number  of  inhabitants  in   an  equal  numlier  of 
towns,  and  tiien  the  whole  number  of  representatives   equally 
apportioned  on  the  districts.     This  will  certainly  be  equal  rep- 
resentation and  an  equal  mode  of  election.  But  it  will  be  new  to 
the  people  and  attended  with  some  serious  difficulties.  Suppose 
a  district  to  contain  ten  or  more  towns,  and  the    meelings  for  e- 
lection  are  held  in  towns,  as  they  now  are,  how  shall  it    be  as- 
certained whether  a  choice  is  made  ?     Shall  there  be   a  canvas 
in  each  district  and  if  no  choice  is  made,  another  meeting  call- 
ed ?  and  so  till  the  nutnber  allowed  the  distncl  be  elected  ?  of 
shall  the  votes  be  returned  to  the  House  of  Representatives  and 
there  counted  ?     and  if  no  choice,  another  precept  to  the  dis- 
trict ?  or  shrill  the  House  fill  the  vacancies  as  is  done  in  the  Sen- 
ale  of  the  Commonwealth  ?     if  this  lasL  mode  be  adopted,  then 
the  representative  is  not  chosen  by   the   people.      This  will  in- 
troduce a  new  principle    into  our  system  of  representation.     If 
a  new  precept  is  sent  out  to  the  district,  this    will  produce  dan- 
gerous delays,  ^c. 

But  it  is  said,  by  some,  that  if  counties  or  other  large  districts 
v'ire  adopted,  it  may  be  provided  by  law  for  all  the  voters  to  at- 
tend at  one  time  and  place  in  the  district  and  give  in  their  voles, 
as  we  now  do  in  the  several  towns — which  will  remedy  the 
evil  ;  for  if  no  choice  is  made  by  the  first  balloting,  it  may  be 
repeated  till  one  is  effected.  This  mode  however  will  be  attend- 
ed with  many  evils,  as  all  who  are  acquainted  with  the  elec- 
tions in  England  and  in  tho^e  States,  where  a  similar  mode  is 
adopted,  very  well  know,  and  do  not  need  now  to  be  detailed. 
It  is  to  be  considered  too  that  if  we  take  the  districting  sys- 
tem we  must  take  it  with  all  iU  consequences  ;  and  one  is  as 
the  districts  will  settle  unequally,  the  representation  will  poon 
become  unequal  unless  there  be  new  districts,  and  this  will  be- 
come necessary  very  often  ;  as  some  districts  will  increase 
much  more  rapidly  than  others.  He  was  in  favour  of  the  report 
of  the  committee  as  it  made  it  necessary  fur  a  town  to  have  fif- 


104 

teen  hundred  inhabitants  to  entitle  it  to  one  repr<^sentative  ;  and* 
he  should  not  have  objected,  if  the  number  had  been  higher. 
lie  likewise  was  well  pleased, that  the  number  o^  inhabitants  had 
been  selected  rather  than  the  number  of  qualified  voters  as  the 
ground  and  criterion  of  the  right  of  a  town  to  be  represented. 
The  old  mode  was  subject  to  unfairness  and  sometimes  to  polit- 
ical frauds — to  speak  the  most  favourably  of  some  transactions. 

He  thought  the  ratio  fixed  upon  to  determine  when  a  town 
shall  send  more  than  one,  or  two  representatives  &c.  to  be  as 
just  as  could  be  dev/sed  and  yet  preserve  any  thing  like  a  town 
representation.  And  though  the  representation,  as  contained 
in  the  2d  and  3d  sections,  will  not  be  so  perfectly  equal  as  that 
by  general  districting  would  be,  he  was  of  opinion  it  had  better 
be  adopted.  The  large  towns  complain  that  they  have  not  their 
proportion  of  representatives,  which  is  true  in  theory,  but  'tis 
well  known  that  large  and  rich  towns  have  many  means  by 
which  they  extend  their  influence  beyond  the  simple  mode  of 
representation.  And  according  to  the  system  reported,  the  rep- 
resentation is  perfectly  equal  as  it  is  apportioned  equally  to  the 
number  of  inhabitants  in  the  several  counties  and  the  mode  of 
choosing  by  towns  is  a  little  unequal ;  but  it  must  be  acknowl- 
edged that  for  all  purposes  of  legislation  two  men  can  represent 
four  thousand  inhabitants  as  efif«ctually  as  fifteen  huNdred  are 
represented  by  one.  It  is  not  ihe  number  of  representatives 
merely  that  constitutes  the  perjection  of  representation  to  a  town 
or  any  given  number  of  people.  'Tis  th<^  knowledge  and  capaci- 
ty for  legislation  united  to  hijlex'ble  integrity — these  and  these 
only  are  the  proper  qualities  to  form  a  good  representative. 

The  representation  by  districts  is  a  new  thing  in  practice, 
and  so  is  the  idea  of  a  limited  number  of  renresentatives  in  a 
representation  of  laws  where  th^se  corporations  are  constantly 
increasing  in  numliier,  as  well  as  the  inhabitants  in  each  and  ev» 
ery  towri.  It  must  be  perceived  that  no  ratio  can  be  fixed  up- 
on but  what  will  in  process  of  time  exceed  any  fixed  number  of 
representatives  that  does  not  exceed  the  number  of  two  hun- 
dred— the  larges*  number  proposed  in  the  report  of  the  com- 
mittee. This  IS  enough  to  satisfy  every  candid  mind  that  the 
old  system  of  town  representation  must  be  m  a  great  measure 
abandoned,  or  the  idea  of  fixing  ihe  number  of  representatives 
must  be  }j;iven  up  Town  representation  is  in«  Oi^istent  with  a 
fixe'd  number  of  representaiive' — nor  can  it  be  maiie  so  equal  as 
thai  by  districts,  but  by  allowing   i^stry    town  however  small 


103 

to  send  one — and  making  the  number  of  inhabitants  that  enti 
lies  a  town  to  send  one  representative,  be  the  ratio  by  which 
the  representatives  in  the  large  towns  shall  increase.  The 
con?equence  of  ttjis  would  be,  the  representative  body  would 
soon  ainouiit  to  a  thousand  or  more.  The  two  systems,  he  ob- 
served, were  both  aUended  with  difficulties,  if  pursued  alone, 
and  as  they  have  bee?»  separately  practised  upori  in  different 
governments.  He  thought  it  very  questionable  whether  the 
CoiivenJion  cuuid  do  better  than  to  take  the  general  system  as 
contained  in  the  report  ;  it  seemed  to  him  to  be  a  complex  sys- 
tem, and  unjfed  the  orip^iual  representation  by  towns,  as  far  as 
that  could  b<>  pursued  wiihout  increasing  the  representation  too 
much,  and  so  i^mch  olthe  new  disticling  system  as  admitted 
the  num-ier'ot  representatives  to  be  fixed,  and  yet  sufficiently 
provided  a  repn  senlation  for  all  the  small  towns  ani  plantations 
wi  h  a  ^  little  inconvenience  as  the  nature  of  the  sutjtcl  would 
adm.t  of. 

Mr.  Lovv.of  Lyman,  said  he  was  very  sorry  he  had  the  misfor- 
tune to  differ  from  his  WJit by  friend  from  Iii'idfford.  But  he 
thought  the  system  reporte-'  was  the  best  that  could  be  devised. 
If  the  system  of  districting  was  adopted,  he  was  confident  the 
constimtion  would  be  received  by  thf  peojle  ;  but  was  of  opin- 
ion that  the  mode  reported  would  givt?  umMrsal  satisfaction. 

Mr.  Piolrnes.  Mr.  President — 1  regret  diat  the  H-jn.  gentle- 
man from  Biddetord  had  not  moved  to  insert,  as  well  as  strike 
out — Ii  seems  inconsistent  to  attempt  to  Uiake  a  blank,  which  a 
m;ijorily  of  this  Conventiori  would  never  agiee  to  fill.  A  mo- 
tion to  strike  out  and  insert,  I  consider  ind  \i  ibie — And  had 
the  Hon.  niefDber  provided  in  this  wa^ ,  ever)  number  that  any 
gentleman  might  have  pielerred,  might  have  been  attempttd, 
and  if  no  one  had  succeeded  th«'  number  reported  would  siand. 
ProvijJing  in  this  uay  every  gentleman  might  have  offered  bis 
scheme,  as  a  substitute  fur  the  one  reported,  and  could  a  better 
oiie  be  offered,  I  would  as  one,  most  chetrfuliy  adopt  it.  It  is 
my  duty  to  state  the  difficulties  which  the  committee  experien- 
ced in  framing  this  part  of  the  report.  The  committee  tound, 
and  I  trust  that  this  Convention  will  find,  that  it  is  not  easy  to 
fiv  on  a  principle  which  will  give  general  satiGtaction 

A  representation  by  towns  had  become  familiar  from  long  ex- 
perience, and  to  abandon  it  would  have  been  to  encounter  hab- 
its and  prejudices  strong  and  obstinate.  But  we  i^eerned  it 
our  duty  to  limit  the  number.     This,  as  we  believe,  the  people 


106 

expect.  1  know  they  have  been  promised  a  cheap  governnrientj 
that  one  third  of  the  usual  number  might  perform  the  duties  of 
legislation,  with  much  more  dispatch  and  much  less  expense  ; 
and  that  with  this  small  number,  distributed  upon  the  princi- 
ples of  equality,  the  rights  and  liberties  of  the  people  would  be 
perfectly  safe. 

These  principles  are  diometrically  opposed — It  is  impossible 
to  preserve  corporate  representation  to  its  extent  ;  restrict  the 
number  within  any  reasonable  limits,  and  at  the  same  time  pre* 
serve  to  the  people  an  equal  representation — How  is  it  to  be 
done  ?  How  are  these  three  favourite  plans,  at  cross  purposes 
with  each  other,  to  be  accomplished  to  the  satisfaction  of  the 
people  of  Maine  ?  Are  gentlemen  prepared  to  give  up  the 
limitation  ?  Will  any  member  hazara  his  reputation  by  pro- 
viding that  each  town  may  elect  a  rejiresentative,  that  the  plai3- 
tations  shall  be  represented  in  some  way,  and  llie  large  towns 
have  their  representatives  increased  in  pr()porti(»n  to  their  num- 
bers ?  A  representation,  thus  })redicated,  would  give  to  yoifr 
first  House, more  than  three  hundred  members,  and  this  number 
would  he  constantly  increasing  un'il  the  House  would  bear  more 
the  character  of  a  mob,  than  a  legislative  assembly.  Will  you 
provide  lor  such  a  House,  pay  ihern  from  the  public  treasury, 
and  thus  treble  your  Stale  Tax  ?  Gentlemen  say,  that  people 
value  their  rights  more  than  their  money — it  is  an  honorable 
thought.  But  if  their  rights  and  privileges  can  be  preserved 
consistently  with  economy,  they  vu!l  hoid  us  answerable  for 
every  needless  expense — And  after  all,  to  what  does  this  cor* 
porale  right  ajnouut  ?  Is  there  not  somelhing  of  prejudice  in  it  ? 
And  hhall  a  small  town  having  five  iiundn  d  inhabitants,  claim 
a  representative,  when  in  a  large  one,  it  requires  two  thousand 
to  derive  the  same  privdege  ?  This,  instead  of  a  corporate 
ri^ht^  becomes  a  corporate  wrong.  This  mode  would  do  great 
inju-^tice  to  the  large  towns.  You  take  from  them  an  equal 
representation  and  compel  them  to  pav  according  to  their  prop- 
erty—Is  it  right  thai  Portland,  should  pay  a  larger  lax  than  the 
county  of  Was!  inglon,  and  should  elect  oidy  one  third  as  many 
memt)ers,  and  that  the  county  of  Washington  should  have  the 
benefit  of  their  diminution  ?  The  course  adopted  \y  the  com- 
mittee is  a  comprtmiise  of  these  opposite  principles — As  far  as 
possible,  we  have  limited  the  number,  preserved  an  equality  in 
the  different  sections  of  the  Stale,  and  secured  to  the  towns  their 
accustomed  privileges. 


107 

We  apportioned  the  number  of  representatives  among  the 
several  counties  according  to  iheir  number  of  inhabitants.  The 
people  of  a  county  have  a  community  of  interest  and  coinci- 
dence of  feeling,  arising  from  an  acquaintance  in  transacting 
their  county  concerns.  If  (here  is  any  thing  like  sectional  di- 
visions, it  exists  in  the  counties.  The  ordinary  towns  will  he 
entitled  to  a  representative,  the  small  towns  and  piantatit  ns  will 
be  classed  as  conveniently  as  possible,  and  of  the  larger  towns 
a  larger  number  is  required  for  the  second  representative,  and 
a  still  larger  for  the  ^hird,  and  so  on  progressively,  fixing  the  ut- 
most limit  for  any  town  at  seven.  By  this  process,  you  pre- 
serve the  equality  in  the  counties,  and  the  corporate  rights  as 
much  as  possible,  and  although  you  diminish  the  influence  of 
the  large  corporations,  you  throw  this  influence  into  the  small 
ones  in  the  same  vicinity. 

If  you  retain  the  limitation  contained  in  the  report,  it  will 
result  that  the  members  will  be  paid  from  the  general  fund — 
this  oui^hi  to  be  the  case,  and  I  am  ready  to  pledge  myself  that 
if  the  object  is  not  already  secured,  I  will  move  an  amendment 
which  will  embrace  it. 

I  trust  the  motion  to  strike  out,  will  not  prevail. 

Mr.  Hudsdon,  of  Levant,  Sbid  it  was  important  to  take  into 
consideration  the  effects  of  the  proposed  apporfiunment  upon 
our  posterity,  as  well  as  u\)on  ihe  present  population  ;  and  went 
into  some  calculations  to  show  the  inconveniences  of  its  opera- 
tion, and  the  propriety  of  adopting  Ihe  motion  to  strike  out. 
From  these  calculations  it  appeared  that  if  our  population  should 
double  every  twenty-five  years,  according  to  the  ratio  now  fix- 
ed, there  would  be  but  one  refire-entntive  for  192,800  persons, 
after  the  lapse  of  one  hundred  and  fifty  years. 

On  tbe  question  being  put,  99  rose  in  favor,  and  149  against 
it — -o  the  motion  was  losi. 

Tb^  vole  was  then  taken,  on  adopting  the  whole  of  the  2d 
Section,  and  it  passed,  by  137  to  95. 

Mr.  Herrick,  of  B.  moved  for  a  reconsideration  of  this  vote. 
1  contc'sSjSaid  he,  my  opinion  on  the  subject  of  representation  has 
somewhat  altered,  I  was  as  much  in  favor  of  reducing  the  refjre- 
^ntation  as  any  one.  I  did  think  our  expenses  would  be  very 
much  diminished.  But  I  do  not  think,  that  to  obtain  this  ob- 
ject our  privileges  should  be  rendered  insecure.  The  only  ob- 
jection to  a  large  number  of  representatives,  i-  the  expense  to 
which  it  would   subject  us      The  business  would  be  done  with 


i08 

as  much  despatch,  as  by  a  small  number.    If  It  is  not  very  exces- 
sive, it  is  niuch  better  that  the  towns  should  be  represented, 

Mr.  Neal,  ot  E.  said  he  was  well  aware  we  ought  to  reduce 
our  representation.  In  the  county  ot  York,  he  said,  we  have 
had  the  right  to  send  two  from  every  town,  and  1  think  we  may 
reduce  tlie  number  of  representatives  more  than  two  fifths,  a^ 
supposed  by  the  Hon.  gentleman  from  Biddeford.  He  then  of- 
fored  a  substitute  for  the  2d  and  3d  sections,  the  principle  of 
which  was,  that  towns  with  1500  inhabitants  should  elect  one 
Representative  and  3000  to  elect  two — with  6000  to  elect 
three,  and  proceeding  wiih  this  increasing  ra/io,  smaller  towns 
to  be  classed  or  to  elect  a  portion  of  the  time  as  ihey  may  agree. 

JIFTERJVOOJV. — A  question  of  order  arose,  whether  on 
the  motion  to  recon^iJer  the  vote  accepting  the  3d  section,  the 
whole  subject  of  representation  w^as  open  for  debate  ;  the  Pres- 
ident decided  it  was  fuily  open. 

Col.  Moody.  Mr.  President — 1  regret  that  the  vote  passed 
in  the  forenoon,  without  more  discussion  ;  but  I  am  now  oppos- 
ed to  reconsidering  It.  I  think,  sir,  no  gentleman  ought  to 
move  for  a  reconsideration,  without  offermg  a  substitute  and 
giving  his  reasons  for  its  adoption.  It  is  proper  for  a  member 
to  make  this  motion,  for  the  purpose  of  proposing  an  amend- 
ment which  should  fully  express  bis  object  ;  bui  nut  without 
distincUy  stating  his  views  in  case  the  vote  to  reconsider  should 
obtain. 

Judge  Green.  I  was  an  attentive  observer  of  w  hat  passed  m 
the  forenoon,  and  I  think  every  thing  was  conducted  in  order  ; 
and  so  far  as  1  observed,  the  whole  subject  was  fully  discussed. 
As  the  whole  subject  may  be  freely  discussed  on  this  motion, 
the  vote  ought  not  to  pass,  unless  for  the  purpose  of  adopting  an 
amendment, that  ever}  gentleman  of  this  Convention  should  have 
opportunity  to  express  his  opinion  upon  the  subject. 

Mr.  Herrick.  Mr.  President — The  remarks  which  I  made 
in  support  of  the  motion  to  reconsider  were  quite  undigested, 
and  were  uffered  on  the  spur  of  the  occasion.  Bui,  sir,  as  geu- 
-tlemen  are  <?i  opinion  that  the  motion  ought  not  to  be  consider- 
ed, but  in  connection  with  a  substitute,  I  will  not  undertake  to 
pull  down,  wiihuut  being  ready  to  lend  a  band  in  building  up. 
1  therefore  propose  to  offer  an  amendment,  by  which  e\ery 
town  contannng  one  thousand  inhabitants  will  be  entitled  to  a 
representative.      1  am  aware,  sir,  that  this  project  will  make  a 


109 

considerably  numerous  house  of  representatives.  But  there  are 
tnany  reasons  for  its  adoption.  One  reason  which  has  great 
weight  with  me,  is  the  means  of  diffusing  information  among 
the  people  which  it  would  afford.  In  this  way,  a  numerous  bo- 
dy of  representatives  will  compensate  for  considerable  expense. 
If  there  are  few  who  are  concerned  in  making  laws,  it  will  be 
more  difficult  to  satisfy  the  people  of  their  reasonableness.  If 
our  representation  is  to  be  so  thm  that  but  one  representative  in 
eight  or  ten  miles  square  is  to  be  chosen,  the  commonalty  will 
have  little  or  no  opportunity  to  obtain  information  of  the  meas- 
ures of  the  government,  and  explanations  of  the  policy  and  pro- 
priety of  the  acts  of  the  legislature.  It  apnears  to  me.  Sir,  we 
are  more  particularly  legislating  for  ourselves,  and  do  not  suf- 
ficientU  regard  its  effects  upon  the  community.  Let  us  look  at 
the  public  good  alone,  and  we  shall  not  be  alarmed  at  the  ad- 
diiional  expence  incurred  by  an  increased  number  of  represen- 
tatives. If  we  have  one  for  every  thousand  inhabitants,  it  will 
make  their  annual  expence  about  ^19,200,  or  about  six  cents 
to  a  person  ;  and  if  we  have  one  hundred,  the  expense  will 
amount  to  nearly  one  half  as  much  ;  and  I  consider  the  differ- 
ence would  be  well  expended,  in  spreading  the  additional  in- 
formation through  the  state. — I  have  nothing  more,  Sir,  to  say 
which  may  he  couj^idered  pertinent,  and  I  should  be  unwilling 
to  offer  any  thing  which  is  impertinent. 

Gen.  Chandler,  wi-shed  a  liberal  course  might  be  pursued 
in  the  discussion  ot  this  important  and  interesting  subject,  and 
that  the  whole  would  be  considered  in  one  view. 

Judge  Bridge,  hoped  the  vote  to  reconsider,  would  take 
place,  in  order  to  open  the  subject  fully,  and  that  gentlemen 
snight  feel  themselves  unshackled  in  the  debate. 

The  motion  to  reconsider  passed,  217  to  31. 

On  motion  ci  Dr.  Rose,  Ordered^  that  the  2d  and  3d  sec- 
tions be  taken  into  consideration,  that  the  whole  subject  of  rep- 
resentation may  be  considered  at  the  same  time. 

Mr.  Locke,  spoke  in  favor  of  taking  off  the  limitation  of  the 
number  of  representatives,  in  order  that  every  town,  when  it 
arrived  to  the  number  of  1500  inhabitants,  should  be  entitled 
to  a  representative. 

Mr-  Usher,  moved  to  strike  out  the  words  *'  nor  more  than 
two  hundred,"  which  limited  the  number  of  representatives. 

The   President  decided,  that  the   project  of  Mr.  Herrick, 
was  now  in  order. 
10 


119 

Mr.  Herrick  then  ofifered  the  following  amendment,  as  a 
substitute  for  the  second  and  third  sections  :—**  Every  town  in 
this  State,  heretofore  represented  in  the  House  of  Representa- 
tives of  Massachusetts,  shall  elect  one  representative  ;  and  eve- 
ry other  town  in  this  Slate  containing  1000  inhabitants,  shall 
elect  one  representative  ;  and  every  town  in  this  state  contain- 
ing 3000  inhabitants,  shall  elect  two  representatives,  and  for 
every  additional  3000  inhabitants,  an  additional  representa- 
tive :  Provided,  no  town  shall  be  entitled  to  more  than  five 
representatives.  And  any  two  or  more  towns  or  plantation* 
whose  inhabitants  shall  not  be  sufficient  to  entitle  each  to  a 
representative,  but  whose  inhabitants  together  shall  amount  to 
1000,  may  voluntarily  associate  themselves  together  from  year 
to  year,  for  that  purpose,  and  shall  be  entitled  to  one  represen- 
tative." 

A  motion  was  made  to  fill  the  blanks,  which  were  left  in  the 
amendment  for  the  several  numbers. 

Mr.  Herrick  observed  that  he  wished  it  first  to  be  decided, 
whether  the  system  were  adopted.  I  wish  further  to  state, 
said  he,  that  1  do  not  make  this  proposition  from  interested  mo- 
lives,  as  it  will  not  affect  my  town,  it  being  amply  provided 
for  in  the  reported  constitution. 

Mr.  Holmes  hoped  the  gentleman  would  fill  the  blanks,  that 
the  Convention  might  fully  understand  its  operation. 
The  blanks  were  afterwards  filled,  as  above. 
Judge  Cony.     1  am  aware,  Mr.  President,  that  the  subject 
now  under  consideration  is  the  most  difficult  one  in  the  consti- 
tution, for  the  Convention  to  come  to  a  conclusion  upon,  with 
any  thing  like  unanimity.     But  I  h©pe,  Sir,  it  will  be  consider- 
ed with  patience  and  candor.     There  seems  indeed  to  be  con- 
siderable difference  of  opinion  among  the  members  of  this  body, 
upon  this    interesting  subject,  and  it  is  said  out  of  doors,  that 
our  constituents  will  not  adopt  the  constitution  as  it  is  reported. 
Sir,  the  subject  of  repre?-entation  is  all  important,  and  our  con- 
stituents do  expect,  that  we   shall  agree  upon  a  system   which 
shall  much  contract  the  present  number.    1  hope,  Sir,  we  shall 
adopt  one  that  will  be  satisfactory   to  them  and  to  generations 
yet  unborn  ;  for  it  is  difficult  to  effect  a  change  in  a  consiitution. 
It  has  been  found  difficult  to  revise  the   constitution  of  Massa- 
chusetts, though  many  have  long  desired  a  revision.    When  the 
Convention  which  framed  the  Constitution  of  the  United  Slates 
met  at  Philadelphia,  it  was  for  the  purpose  of  revising  the  old 


in 

confederation,  and  although  the  constitution  vvhich  they  pre 
senled  to  the  States,   was  not   strictly  within  their  powers,  it 
was  accepted  ;  and  we  have  reason  to  bless  God  for  it. 

[  hope,  Sir,  we  shall  reduce  the  number  ot  representatives  to 
one  hundred,  and  that  it  will  never  exceed  two  hundred.  For 
myself,  1  have  not  been  able  to  see  the  weight  of  the  objections 
wiiich  have  been  made  to  the  report.  Why  should  w^  adhere 
to  the  rights  of  corporations  ?  I  understand  that  the  govern- 
ment is  to  be  founded  upon  a  system  of  equality.  But  where 
will  be  the  principle  of  equality  in  giving  the  right  of  sending 
repreaenlatives,  to  small  towns  ?  I  have  heard  of  no  proposi- 
tion, which  did  not  include  the  principle  of  classing.  And  if 
we  adopt  the  principle,  why  should  we  not  extend  it  ?  I  did 
not  come  here  to  inquire  what  were  the  opinions  of  the  majori- 
ty, but  to  discharge  an  important  duly.  If  we  take  the  princi- 
ple of  districting,  it  will  not  be  so  unequal,  as  the  one  suggest- 
ed. If  the  system  of  representation  is  to  be  changed,  I  tliink 
the  present  the  only  time.  We  have  now  to  adopt  new  princi- 
ples and  new  measures.  I  contend,  Sir,  we  ought  to  class,  and 
if  we  take  le^-s  than  three  thousand  for  the  first  representa- 
tive, we  ought  to  begin  and  go  through.  The  plan  reported 
seen)S  to  me,  to  be  a  practical  system.  The  legislajure  can, 
from  time  to  time,  new  class  the  towns,  as  it  becomes  necessa- 
ry. I  want  a  principle  that  will  answer  for  present  and  for  fu- 
ture limes,  I  am  not  \fi  favor  of  ninety,  or  an  hundred,  or  any 
precise  number,  but  should  desire  that  the  number  should  be 
fixed. 

Judge  Thacher  observed  thai  ihf  re  was  a  general  wi:h  to 
reduce  the  number  of  representative^^,  but  the  plan  proposed 
would  rather  tend  to  increase  it. 

Judge  Bridge.  Mr.  President,  I  ri^e  simply  to  state  to  the 
Convention,  the  re^-ult  of  some  estimates  of  the  number  of  rep- 
resentatives, according  to  the  proposed  ratio.  The  committee 
found  that  by  assuming  1800  as  the  number  of  inhabitants 
which  should  entitle  a  town  to  elect  a  representative,  the  whole 
Rumber  would  be  one  hundred  and  sixteen.  By  taking  1600 
inhabitants,  for  the  first  representative,  the  riumber  would  be 
nearly  one  hundred  and  fifty  ;  by  fixing  it  at  1200,  the  number 
of  representatives  would  be  one  hundred  and  eighty — at  1000, 
ii  would  be  two  hundred  and  twenty — and  by  adopting  the 
Massachusetts  plan,  it  would  be  two  hundred  and  thirty.  But 
if  the  motion  before  the    Convention  prevail,    it  would  nearJj 


112 

double  the  number  now  proposed,  and  we  shall  have  three  hun- 
dred to  begin  with. 

No  sentiment  has  been  more  strongly  impressed  on  our 
minds  than  that  the  pubh'c  opinion  demanded  a  reduction  of 
the  number  of  representatives.  To  cume  at  this  object,  there 
were  but  two  modes  presented — one  was  by  a  general  distric- 
ting throughout  the  state — the  other  by  a  general  representa- 
tion of  corporations.  The  first,  ii  was  thought  was  too  repug- 
nant to  the  feelings  and  habits  oflhe  jieople,  to  be  accfptable. 
We  therefore  attempted  to  reduce  the  numbers  by  a  representa- 
tion of  corporations  and  increasing  t[)e  ratio.  It  was  found, 
that  by  this  mode,  the  loss  would  fall  mostly  upon  the  large 
lowns  ;  and  I  was  happy  to  see  the  delegaies  from  those  towns 
ready  to  accede  to  it.  It  would  not  injure  the  smaller  towns,  but 
rather  operate  for  their  ber)efit,  as  it  would  give  them  rights 
which  they  had  not  l)c'fore.  Upon  these  grounds  we  thought 
that    1500  inhabiinnts  was  a  suitable  number  to  begin  with. 

Mr.  Holmes.  The  more  1-hear  the  sentiments  ofgentlemen, 
the  more  I  am  con v meed  we  cannot  f.giee  upon  any  mc^de 
which  will  be  generally  acceptable.  Tocjuiet  the  alarm  that 
the  large  towns  will- swallow  up  the  small  'owns,  1  shall  oflfer 
an  amendment  which  wiU  secure  them  from  this  evil. 

Adjourned. 

THURSDAY,  OCT    21, 

Rev.  Mf.  Hooper,  of  Paris,  sugcrested  the  propriety  of  pass- 
ing the  2d  and  3d  sectit)ns  for  (he  present,  and  proceeding  to 
consider  the  remainder  of  the  Copstituiion  ;  as  there  appeared 
to  be  a  great  difference  of  opini;  n  on  this  subject.  But  no  mo- 
lion  was  made,  and  the  Convention  resumed  the  consideration 
of  the  subject  which  was  left  unfinished  yesterday. 

Mr.  Allen,  of  Norridgwock,  slated  to  the  Convention,  some 
estimates  of  the  numbers  of  representatives  according  to  differ- 
ent ratios.  By  this  statement  it  appeared,  that,  estimating  the 
population  of  the  State  at  300,000,  and  allowing  2000  inhal^i- 
lants  to  entitle  a  town  to  a  representative,  and  proceeding  in  the 
fatio  proposed  by  the  Committee,  there  would  probably  be  100 
representatives,  and  50  towns  would  be  entitled  to  one  or  more. 
To  begin  at  1800  inhat-itants  for  the  first,  there  would  he  116 
representatives,  and  70  towns  entitled  to  send  ;  at  1500  inhab- 
itants, 150  representatives,  and  90  towns  entitled  ;  at  1200 — 
180  representatives,  and  111  towns  entitled  ;  at  1000— 211,  and 


113 

140  towns  entitled.  By  the  Constitution  of  Massactiusetts,  tbe 
several  towns  are  authorised  to  elect  230  to  the  General  Court, 
and  75  towns  are  not  entitled  to  send. 

Judge  Bridge  observed,  that  he  found  the  principal  difficultj 
arose  from  the  limitation  of  the  number  of  representatives,  by 
which  towns  now  entitled  to  a  representative  would  hereafter 
be  deprived  of  this  privilege.  In  order  to  remove  this  difficulty, 
to  leave  the  subject  open,  and  remove  the  apprehensions  of 
gentlemen,  he  would  move  that  "  two  hundred"  be  struck  out, 
and  "  three  hundred"  inserted. 

The  President  decided  that  this  motion  was  not  in  order. 

Judge  Thacher.  Tbe  statements  made  by  the  gentleman  from 
Augusta,  (Judge  Bridge,)  and  the  gentleman  from  Norridg- 
wock,  (Mr.  Allen,)  are  very  important,  and  enable  the  Conven- 
tion to  proceed  upon  sure  ground  ;  they  can  now  see  what  any 
given  number  ot  inhabitants  will  result  in.  if  J  800  is  fixed  up- 
on as  entitling  a  town  to  send  one,  and  keeping  the  ratio  pro- 
posed  by  the  report,  it  will  bring  into  the  house  one  hundred 
and  twenty  members ;  if  1500  is  taken  for  the  first  number,  and 
entitle  a  town  to  send  one,  then  it  will  bring  in  150.  The  gen- 
tleman from  Bowdoinham  has  proposed  one  thousand  as  the 
number  (o entitle  a  town  to  send  one,  ^c.  which  would  give 
two  hundred  and  eleven  immediately  ;  and  the  increase  will 
be  so  rapid,  as  soon  to  exceed  that  uf  Massachusetts.  The  evils 
of  a  large  representative  body  are  universally  acknowledged^ 
out  of  this  Convention,  and  that  it  ought  to  be  reduced.  The 
Judge  said,  the  nore  the  subject  was  considered,  the  more  he 
was  disposed  to  look  favorably  on  the  report  of  the  Committee. 

Mr.  Vance,  was  opposed  to  any  plan  which  should  increase 
the  number  of  representatives.  Instead  of  1500  being  the  be- 
ginnirig  of  the  ratio,  he  should  prefer  a  larger  number.  He  had 
not  reen  one  person  in  his  part  of  ibe  State,  who  wished  for 
more  than  one  hundred  ]e[)resentatives.  The  plan  proposed 
will  give  one  hundred  and  twelve.  Will  not  this  number  ena- 
ble the  Legislature  to  legislate  more  understandingly  than  five 
hundred  ?  There  is  not  one  member  from  the  county  of  Wash- 
ington, who  is  not  perfectly  satisfied  with  the  report.  Although 
there  is  no  district  in  that  county  which  will  not  contain  nearly 
two  thousand  inhabitants,  and  some  will  have  forty  miles  to 
travel  to  elections  ;  yet  complaints  do  not  come  frem  that  quar- 
ter. 1  believe,  said  he,  the  electors  are  not  so  much  afraid  of 
4hJ3  plan^as-thuse  who  expect  to  he  elected.  He  teit  no  fear  Ic 
1€  =^ 


114 

return  home,  and  carry  the  Constitution  which  lessens  the  num 
ber  of  representatives. 

Mr.  Herrick  said,  he  brought  forw^ard  his  project,  as  a  sub- 
stitute for  the  one  he  had  raoved  to  strike  out,  and  from  the  ne- 
cessity of  the  case  ;  but  he  should  be  glad,  if  other  gentlemen, 
who  did  not  like  the  report,  nor  his  proposal,  w(.uld  offer  anoth- 
er, which  he  should  probably  himself  think  preferable. 

The  President  made  some  remarks  on  the  subject.  He  re- 
gretted (hat  the  Committee  had  undertaken  to  apply  principles 
which  rather  belonged  to  legislation.  II  you  underl-^ke,  said 
he,  to  class  towns  which  are  hostile  to  each  other,  so  that  they 
cannot  be  altered,  you  create  difficulties*  If,  instead  of  class- 
ing towns,  you  send  your  representatives  according  to  the  pres- 
ent plan,  only  limiting  the  number,  and  let  any  town  now  enti- 
tled to  send  one,  preserve  the  right,  and  let  the  first  Legisla- 
ture do  the  work  of  classing,  these  diflSculties  might  be  obvia- 
ted. 

After  sonre  conversation,  Mr.  Herrick  withdrew  his  motion, 
to  give  precedence  to  one  about  to  be  ofJered. 

Gen.  VVingate,  of  Bath,  said  he  thought  the  classing  of  towns 
was  a  legislative  business,  and  he  wished  to  leave  it  to  be  set- 
tled by  the  first  Legislature  ;  and  for  this  purpose  moved,  that 
the  following  amendment  be  adopted,  as  a  substitute  for  the  sec- 
tions under  consideration,  which  was  a?  follows  : — 

That  the  House  of  Representatives  first  to  be  elected  under 
this  Constitution,  shall  consist  of  members  to  be  chosen  by  the 
several  incorporated  towns  within  this  State,  each  town  being 
entitled  to  the  same  number  as  though  ihis  Convention  had  not 
been  adopted — provided  however ,  that  all  such  towns  and  plan- 
tations as  would  not  be  entitled  to  a  representative,  may,  by  a 
major  vote  and  mutual  agreement  among  themselves, ^lass  them- 
selves for  the  purpose  of  electing  a  representative;  and  the 
representatives  so  chosen  by  any  class,  shall  produce  to  the 
House  of  Representatives,  together  with  the  proper  evidence  of 
their  election,  an  attested  c<^py  of  the  vote  of  the  several  towns 
and  plantations  forining  such  class,  to  class  themselves  for  the 
purpose  of  such  election,  and  alsrt  a  certffirate  of  the  assessors 
of  such  towns  and  plaii  aiions,  of  the  number  of  polls  in  their  res- 
pective towns  and  plantations.  The  H"Use  of  Representatives 
to  be  elected  on  the  second  Monday  ot  September,  1821,  and 
forever  thereafrer,  shall  consist  of  not  less  than  one  huudred 
-members,  nor  more  than  three  hundred,  and  shuli  continue  ia 


115 

service  one  year  from  the  day  next  preceding  the  annual  meet- 
ing of  the  Legislature.  Provided  however^  until  the  population 
of  the  State  shall  annount  to  500,000,  the  nuniber  of  represen- 
tatives shall  not  exceed  250.  And  the  Legislature  shall,  before 
the  first  day  of  May,  1821,  and  within  every  subsequent  period 
of  at  most  ten  years,  caus«  the  number  of  inhabitants  of  the 
State  to  be  ascertained,  exclusive  of  foreigners  not  naturalized, 
and  Indians  not  taxed  ;  and  the  number  of  representatives  shall, 
at  the  several  periods  of  making  such  enumeration,  be  fixed  and 
determined  by  the  Legislature  ;  which  members,  so  fixed  and 
determined,  shall  first  be  apportioned  by  the  Legislature,  among 
the  several  counties  in  the  State,  as  near  as  may  be,  according 
to  their  number  of  inhabitants,  having  regard  to  the  relative  in- 
crease of  population.  And  the  Legislature  shall  further  appor- 
tion the  representatives,  so  assigned  to  the  respective  counties, 
among  the  towns  in  their  respective  counties,  as  near  as  may 
be,  on  the  principle  of  equality,  giving  to  each  individual  town 
that  may  be  entitled  thereto,  upon  such  ratio  as  shall  be  estab- 
lished by  the  Legislature,  one  or  more  menibers,  and  classing 
the  towns  and  plantations  not  entitled  to  one  member,  in  such 
manner  that  each  class  may  elect  one  representative. 

Dt.  Rose  sail,  it  seems  the  people  in  the  eastern  part  of  the 
country  are  in  favor  of  a  reduced  representation.  The  gentle- 
man from  Calais,  in  travelling  through  the  country,  found  this  to 
be  ihe  case  ;  and  this  might  le  found  to  be  the  case  in  travel- 
ling further.  But  on  more  inquiry,  he  believed  the  people  were 
not  so  much  afraid  of  the  expense  of  a  numerous  house,  as  they 
are  ot  ihe  mode  of  districting. 

Mr.  VVailingford  said,  Tie  rejoiced  that  the  motion  to  reconsid- 
er passed  ;  that  the  motion  of  the  gentleman  from  BowdoinhaiQ 
was  withdrawn  ;  and  he  also  rejoiced  at  hearing  the  motion  of 
the  gentleman  from  Bath.  It  is  a  proposition  which  will  relieve 
us  from  the  many  difficulties  which  attend  the  attempt  to  class 
the  towns  by  the  Convention.  It  is  the  proper  subject  ofJe- 
gislation,  and  1  lejoice  that  a  proposition  has  been  made,  which 
i  believe  will  be  perfectly  salislactory  to  our  constituents. 

Col.  Moody.  IVJr.  President — I  hnpt-  the  amendment  off'er- 
ed  by  the  gentleman  from  Bath,  will  meet  the  approbation  of 
the  Convention  and  be  adopted,  h  is  such  a  proposilioH  as  is 
■calculated  to  meet  the  objections  which  have  tjeen  made  to  the 
report,  li  piints  out  general  prmciples,  and  leaves  the  details 
for  the  Legislature.  W  by  getUiemeiiahuuld  be  unwilling  to  ledv.« 


116 

It  to  the  Legislature,  I  cannot  conceive.  If  it  is  left  to  them,  to 
arrange  and  class  the  towns,  I  think  the  Constitution  will  be 
much  nnore  likely  to  be  accepted,  and  that  it  will  create  much 
less  excitement.  I  can  see  no  possible  inconvenience  that  will 
result  from  adopting  this  mode  of  representation.  If  we  re- 
strict the  Legislature,  so  that  ihey  shall  not  go  beyond  certain 
bounds,  there  is  no  reason  to  fear  their  doing  what  is  improper. 
The  Lpgifilature,  having  the  census  before  them,  will  be  better 
able  io  fix  on  the  number  of  representatives,  to  apportion  them 
upon  ihe  several  towns,  and  to  class  the  towns  and  plantations 
in  such  a  manner  as  to  be  satisfactory  to  them.  1  therefore 
hope  the  motion  will  prevail. 

Judge  Ames,  of  Bath,  obaerved,  that  he  did  not  intend  to 
have  taken  any  part  in  the  discussion  of  the  subject  under  con- 
sideration— He  would  not  however  by  this  declaration  be  un- 
derstood to  mean,  that  he  felt  no  interest  in  the  subject.  On 
the  contrary,  in  his  apprehension,  it  embraced  the  vital  princi- 
ples of  a  republican  government ;  for  (said  he)  it  is  by  equal 
representation,  that  equal  rights  and  privileges  are  secured,  and 
impartial  justice  administered.  But  from  the  solicitude  and 
anxiety,  manifested  by  almost  every  member  of  this  Conven- 
tion, both  in  doors  and  out,  he  was  led  to  expect,  that  every 
fa-lse  and  unequal  principle  would  be  readily  rejected  from  the 
system  of  representation,  and  this  interesting  debate,  ere  this, 
have  terminated  in  a  perfect  union  of  sentiment  upon  the  sub- 
ject. But  (he  said)  his  expectations  were  unreasonable  and 
therefore  justly  disappointed.  The  subject,  as  reported  (con- 
tinued Mr.  A.)  is  still  attended  with  difficulty,  and  as  great  a 
variety  of  opinion  is  now  manifested  concerning  it,  as  at  the 
commencement  of  the  debate.  'Under  these  circumstances  his 
own  apprehensions  were  greatly  relieved  on  hearing  the  prop- 
ositi jn  of  the  honorable  gentleman  from  Balb,  as  a  substitute 
-for  the  second  and  third  sections  now  under  consideration,  and 
which,  he  hoped,  would  prevail,  as  in  his  apprehension  it  ex- 
hibited a  better  compromise  of  opinions  r^nd  interests,  that)  any 
proposition,  which  had  been  offered.  By  the^e  two  sections 
the  whole  nunober  of  Representatives  can  never  be  less  than  one 
hundred,  nor  more  than  two  hundred,  to  be  apportioned  among 
the  several  counties,  towns  and  plantations,  according  to  the 
number  of  inhabitants  upon  the  ratio  and  classification  estab- 
lished. This  apportionment  and  classification  must  necessarily 
c^.ake  place  for  the  first  Lfc^islaiui^e,   arsd  a  provision  is  accord- 


117 

ingly  reported  in  another  part  of  the  Constitution  for  that  pur- 
pose. To  the  provisions  of  these  two  sections,  nhich  are  both 
under  consideration  (he  said)  he  could  not  readily  assent.  He 
was  not  yet  satisfied,  that  the  representation  by  these  provis- 
ions was  not  too  limited,  and  the  naean  increasing  ratio  ur)equal 
in  its  operation.  That  justice  may  be  equally  distributed  there 
should  be  a  representation  of  all  the  various  interests,  by  which 
the  people  are  distinguished,  establised  upon  just  and  equal 
principles.  This  cannot  be  possible  with  a  \ery  limited  num- 
ber of  Represputalives,  and  especially  when  the  population  is 
thinly  scattered  over  an  extensive  territory.  If  the  wisdom  and 
integrity  of  human  nature  were  perfect,  the  government  of  the 
people  might  wi'h  safety  be  placed  in  the  hands  of  a  single  in- 
dividual ;  and  then  an  absolute  monarchy  would  be  the  best  of 
all  governments.  But  the  history  of  nations  bears  conclusive 
and  melancholy  testimony  against  this  supposition — From  the 
suggestion  of  the  honorable  chairnian  of  the  committee  (said  Mr. 
A.)  it  seems  the  people  have  been  told,  their  expenses  for  the 
support  of  government  would  be  diminished  by  a  separation 
from  Mass?)cliuset!s  pvoper  ;  and  thefefore  he  infers  the  repre- 
Fc r.ta Mon  mu>t  be  greatly  reduced.  Mr  A.  said,  he  well  knew 
tbt  pe<i[)le  \\i>hed  theT  Government  established  and  adminis- 
tered upon  sound  prmciples  vi  tconomy,  and,  be  had  no  doubt, 
these  principlt^s  would  I-e  duly  regat ded  by  ihe  C<jnvention. 
But  be  bad  too  much  confidence  in  the  good  sense  of  the  people, 
to  sup}»ose  for  a  niou;ent,  ihat  they  would  hazard  their  rights 
and  priviieijes  for  the  considerati('n  of  gold  and  silver.  We  are 
convened  here  to  e-tablish  a  govermiient,  not  upon  tlie  teeble 
and  corrupr  basis  li  l(^^s  and  gain  ;  but  upon  the  principles  of 
justice  and  equal  rights.  If  the  best  interests  therefore  of  the  peo- 
ple require  a  larger  representation  llian  is  provided  tor  by  the 
Report  of  the  Cf-mmittee,  he  was  confident,  this  Convention 
W'juld  never  be  governed  by  the  narrow  policy  of  calculating 
the  additional  expense.  He  was  also  opposed  to  the^e  sec'/ons, 
because  the  detailed  apportionment  in  relation  to  towns  and 
counties  was  a  proper  sul  ject  of  legislation,  and  should  not 
make  a  part  of  the  Constitution  ;  and  because  in  the  apportit.n- 
nient  itself  tor  the  first  Legislature,  upon  the  principles  of  the 
Report,  injustice  could  not  be  avoided.  A  certain  number  of 
ri»presentatives  said  he,  not  exceeding  one  hundred  and  fifty,  is 
to  be  apportioned  among  the  several  couirtics,  according  to  the 
n-umber  of  inhabitants,  for  the  first  Legislature ;  and  who,  he 


118 

would  ask,  knows  accurately  the  number  of  inhabitants  within 
each  county  ?  No  enumeration  has  been  had  since  1810  The 
same  difficulty  is  manifest,  in  apportioning  the  number  assigned 
to  each  county,  among  the  several  towns  and  plantations  within 
the  county — -nor  will  the  increase  of  population  in  the  several 
counties  from  1800  to  1810,  be  a  just  rule  for  ascertaining  the 
present  nuniber  of  inhabitants,  in  order  to  make  a  just  appor- 
tionment of  representatives.  Some  counties,  as  well  as  towns, 
since  1810,  have  increased  much  more  rapidly,  than  at  any  foi- 
mer  period;  while  others,  since  that  time,  have  not  increas- 
ed at  all.  How  fhen.  (said  Mr.  A.)  upon  the  principles  of  the 
Report,  and  at  this  time,  previous  lo  taking  the  next  census,  is 
it  possible  « qually  to  apportion  the  Representatives  among  the 
counties,  towns  and  plantations  ?  Add  to  these  difficulties  the 
arbitrary  and  unjust  classification  of  certain  towns  and  planta- 
tions, required  by  the  Report — unjust,  bec:ause  the  representa- 
tion is  predicated  upon  population,  and  in  the  apportionment 
for  the  first  Legislature,  you  cannot  ascertain  it — arbitrary,  be* 
cause  in  some  instances  you  compel  the  association  of  towfiS 
and  plantations,  which  are  opposed  to  each  other  by  local  in- 
terests, f<eiings,  and  principles.  These,  said  he,  surely  are 
evils,  wliich  the  people  must  feel,  and  will  not  patiently  bear. 
But  Ik)w  shall  we  avoid  them,  and  give  to  the  people,  if  they 
wi^h  it,  a  larger  representation,  and  upon  more  equal  princi- 
ples ?  By  adopting,  said  he,  the  proposed  amendment  of  ray 
honorable  Colleague.  By  this  proposition,  the  number  of  rep- 
resentatives can  never  be  less  than  one  hundred,  nor  greater 
Ihan  three  hundred,  leaving  it  with  the  Legislature  to  fix  the 
number,  and  apportion  the  same,  among  the  several  counties, 
according  to  the  number  of  inhabitants,  to  be  ascertained  at  tha 
several  periods  of  apporiionujent,  giving  to  each  individual 
town,  as  many  members,  as  it  i^ball  be  entitled  to,  upon  such  ra- 
tio, as  the  Legislature  may  deem  most  equitable  and  just. 
Here,  said  Mr.  A.  in  my  apprehension,  the  subject  is  placed  just 
where  it  ought  to  be,  in  the  hands  of  the  people  through  their 
ageiits,  the  members  of  the  Legislature.  Should  they  not  be 
satisfied  with  a  representation  of  200  members,  they  may  ex- 
tend it  to  three  hundred,  or  reduce  it  to  one  hundred,  as  should 
be  found  m  operation  best  suited  to  their  interests  Nor  did 
he  t)elieve,that  any  Legislature  would  so  abuse  this  authority, 
as  to  produce  a  very  unequal  representation.  Should  they  how- 
ever uo  this,  either  in  fixing  upon  an  improper  number,  or  ia. 


119 

establishing  the  mean  increasing  ratio  upon  unjust  principles, 
there  is  "  a  redeeming  spirit  in  the  people,"  and  they  would 
correct  the  evil.  It  is  true,  by  the  proposed  amendment,  the 
number  of  representatives  in  the  first  Legislature  may  be  large, 
but  in  this  mode  of  apportionment,  the  representation  would  be 
more  equal  and  satisfactory,  than  that,  provided  for  by  the  Re- 
port. The  number  of  rateat)le  polls  is  known  in  every  town, 
and  therefore  by  electing  the  representatives  for  )he  first  Legis- 
lature, upon  the  principle?  of  the  Constitution  of  Massachusetts, 
with  the  additional  provision  of  voluntary  classification,  the  un- 
equal apportionment  among  counties  and  towns,  and  the  ine- 
quality of  representation,  resulting  therefrom,  may  be  avoided. 
The  towns  and  plantations,  thus  voluntarily  classed,  would  be 
more  harmoniously  united,  and  more  perfectly  represented.  If 
there  be  any  evil  in  this  supposed  numerous  representation,  it 
can  only  he  of  short  duration  ;  and  the  important  business, 
which  must  occupy  the  attention  of  the  first  Legislature,  ren^ 
ders  it  unconjmonly  important,  that  every  interest  of  the  com- 
munity, should  be  fully  and  equally  represented.  For  these 
reasons,  he  was  in  favor  of  the  proposed  amendment. 

Mr.  Holmes.  I  am  gratified  that  the  subject  has  been  open- 
ed, to  give  gentlemen  an  opportunity  to  offer  their  different 
projects,  that  we  might  see  if  there  was  any  thing  like  unanim- 
ity. A  substitute  was  offered  by  the  gentleman  from  Bowdoin- 
ham,  Mr.  Herrick,  but  it  was  so  imperfect,  that  it  could  not  be 
adapted  to  the  views  of  the  gentleman  himself.  Several  other 
schemes  have  been  proposed,  all  probably  very  perfect,  in  the 
opinion  of  the  movers,  but  all  different^  and,  \f\  many  respects, 
contradictory  It  has  beconje  my  duty  to  offer  my  opiniun  on 
the  proposition  of  my  friend  from  Bath,  Gen.  Wingate  ;  and  I 
regret  I  cannot  give  it  my  support.  I  see  so  many  evils 
from  the  operaiion  of  the  principle,  that  I  cannot  consent  to 
adopt  it,  instead  of  that  reported  by  the  Committee,  Indeed, 
I  am  almost  inclined  to  congratulate  myself,  that  Massachusetts 
has  given  us  a  provisional  Constitution  ;  ft  r  I  begin  to  doubt 
whether  we  shall  be  found  capable  of  agreeing  upon  one  for 
ourselves. 

Il  is  said  that  we  should  place  great  confidence  in  the  Lei^is- 
lature,  that  the  people  will  elect  wise  and  good  men,  and  that 
the  principles  of  representation  being  settled,  to  make  the  ap- 
plication, is  matter  of  legislation.  Sir,  I  hope  the  Legislators 
Will  be  wiser  than  we.     If  not,  I  fear  they  will  never  be  able 


120 

to  agree  on  a  system  which  will  suit  themselves  or  the  people. 
Sir,  our  duties  are  distinct  and  plain.  The  constitution  is  to 
create,  direct  and  restrain  your  Legislature.  And  shall  we  leave 
the  power  and  mode  of  creating  it  to  the  Legislature  itself? 
The  spirit  of  party  may  a2;ain  prevail.  The  present,  to  be 
sure,  i^  a  time  of  great  candor  and  tranquillity.  But  this  may 
not  always  last. — The  lamp  of  experience  is  my  guide — What 
has  been  may  again  be.  The  time  will  probably  come  when 
faction  shall  rage  and  discord  snap  her  whip  of  scorpions.  The 
sun  of  peace  may  be  involved  in  a  cloud,  and  a  storn  of  dis- 
trust and  jealousy  and  hatred  overwhelm  us.  Do  you  believe 
that  your  Legislature  would  then  apportion  your  representatives^ 
according  to  perfect  equity  ? 

Why,  Sir,  do  we  shrink   from  our  duty  ?  Why  are  we  sent 
here,  but  to   fix  bounds  and    to  prescribe  a   rule   by  which  the 
Legislature  is  to  be  created?  And  where  is  the  shield   to  pro-  - 
tect  »he  rights  of  the  people,  il'  we  surrender  to  the  Legislature 
the  right  of  self  creation  ? 

According  to  this  proposition  we  shall  have  three  hundred 
members  in  the  first  House,  and  while  you  swell  the  number 
greatly,  the  small  towns  will  be  deprived  of  their  rights,  to  help 
the  large  ones.  Thn  principle  of  this  scheme  leads  to  district- 
ing, and  I  do  avow,  Sir,  I  should  be  unwilling  that  this  consti- 
tution should  go  out  to  the  people,  with  so  heavy  a  minority  as 
will  be  found  hanging  at  its  heels.  I  should  be  disposed,  to 
prevent  discord,  to  take  a  smaller  number  for  the  first  appor- 
tionment, and  a  larger  number  for  the  highest  liinit.  But  this 
proposition  gives  too  much  power  and  responsibility,  and  1  trust 
it  will  not  succeed. 

Gen.  Chandler  said,  he  came  to  this  place  with  an  opinion 
that  we  should  tske  a  different  course  from  the  one  proposed  ; 
but  he  saw  difficulties  at  all  points,  as  the  Convention  proceed- 
ed, and  was  disposed  to  wish  it  might  be  adopted.  He  there- 
fore moved  that  the  proposed  amendment  be  printed,  and  with 
the  2d  and  3d  sections,  committed  to  a  select  committee. 

Judge  Cony  wished,  it  there  were  any  other  propositions  to 
be  made,  that  they  should  be  presented  before  proceeding  fur- 
ther, and  committing  the  subject  to  a  select  committee.  Sixty- 
six  frosty  winters  (.'said  the  Judge)  have  served  to  bleach  these 
hoary  locks — have  palsied  my  limbs,  and  clog;^ed  this  tongue 
that  is  now  struggling  to  convey  my  ideas  to  this  Convention  ; 
yet  under  all  ihetae  appalling  circumstances,  I  shall  endeavor  to 


121 

discharge  my  duly  in  expressing  to  the  Convention  my  views 
of  the  best  mode  of  represeistatinn,  if  (he  opportunif y  ls  given 
for  i^enilemen  to  offer  their  different  propositions.  The  Judge 
then  said,  he  was  in  favor  of  one  hundred  representativpo  for 
the  first  Legislature,  to  be  enlarged  frotu  time  to  liine,  accor- 
ding to  the  increase  of  population  ;  but  bis  ideas  were  given 
more  fully  afterwards. 

Judge  Pariis  could  see  no  impr.  jriety  in  proceedin:5  in  the 
discussion,  and  in  the  course  of  it  to  consuierai:  the  proposi- 
tions which  might  be  oflfered.  They  might  all  be  coiKM^iered 
by  the  committee,  if  it  should  finally  be  commiUed.  I  believe, 
continued  he,  it  is  generally  expected  ih.'»l  the  repre^^entation 
will  t  e  reduced.     The  people  do  not  expect  impossibilities. 

The  President  remarked,  thai  he  did  not  think  it  advi-able 
to  follow  with  "Strictness. the  rules  of  proceeding  observed  in 
legislative  bodies,  snd  thought  that  as  there  was  a  great  variety 
of  opinions  on  this  subject  it  was  advisable  for  any  gentleman 
who  had  a  scheme  which  he  wished  to  offer,  to  put  it  into  writ- 
ing and  lay  i^.  on  the  table.  The  whole  would  then  t)e  before 
the  Convention,  and  some  one  perhaps  would  be  found  that 
would  better  suit  the  majority,  than  that  reported  by  the  com- 
mittee. 

Judge  Cony.  Mr.  President — I  do  not  arise  with  much  con- 
fidence that  any  project  which  1  may  offer  will  be  generally  ac- 
ceptable, as  it  will  go  to  the  introduction  of  a  system  very  dif- 
ferent from  that  ro  which  we  have  been  accu-Jomed.  But  as  I 
wish  to  bridg  my  views  before  the  Convention,  I  will  ^ubmit 
the  following  proposition  as  containing  my  ideas  on  the  sub- 
ject : — 

"  The  House  of  Representative*?  sliail  consist  of  one  hundred 
members,  to  be  apportioned  equally  according  to  the  popuiaiion 
ofttie  State  ;  provided  that  after  the  number  of  inhabitants  a- 
mounts  to  five  hundred  thousand,  the  nuruher  of  Rej)re«entatives 
shaH  be  increased  to  one  hundred  and  Ji/fy  and  no  more,  to  be 
apportioned  as  aforesaid." 

1  am  sensible.  Sir, '.hat  from  long  and  establi-hed  usage,  we 
have  become  attached  to  the  present  mode  of  represeiitati  >n. 
But  almost  all  persons  are  dissatisfied  with  the  result  of  the 
present  method,  however  Ihey  might  regard  the  mode  itself. 
We  hear  a  universal  complaint  of  the  number  of  our  Represen- 
tatives. It  Is  not  only  expensive,  but  is  too  large  to  transact 
business  with  facility,  and  unequal  in  its  operation.  If  we  take 
H 


122 

experience  for  our  tjiiicle,  we  ^liall  not  fear  to  tnnt  a  sin-ill  num- 
ber of  Repre^^eniaiivts.  Let  us  look  atNevv-Y«''k  and  Pennsyl- 
vania ;  if  ihey  have  imj  roved  on  os,  ?hall  we  not  learn  irom 
them  ?  I  see  no  d^^nger  in  a  small  reprfsenlation.  I  (eel  n  uch 
attached  to  the  f)rin(ip'es  of  ihe  t«deral  constiution,  hy  which 
the  representation  i^  t«  unded  on  a  basis  ol  equal  rights  and  is 
not  excessive  In  'he  national  Ltgislalnie  there  is  hut  one 
Representative  for  thirty  six  thousand  people.  Yet  we  hea»  no 
couipjain?  of  a  want  of  bein^  represented.  The  lusiness  is 
well  attended  to,  and  even  the  private  concerns  of  individuals 
do  not  sifTer  for  the  want  of  a  njore  numerous  representation  ; 
at  least  no  conipl^ints  of  this  kind  have  e»er  reached  my  ears. 
By  the  plan  which  I  havr  suhmiltrd,  we  shall  havf  one  Rep- 
resentative for  three  thousand,  and  this  will  t)e  enough  for  trans- 
acting the  public  business,  and  private  and  local  concerns,  vvth- 
out  danger  or  inconvenience.  'J  here  has  no  pioiuisiiion  been 
made  which  does  not  result  in  a  paitial  classing  of  towns,  and 
why  shall  w'e  not  carry  il  further  ?  This  is  the  only  effect  of 
my   proposal. 

After  having  expressed  my  views  on  ihis  subject,  Sir,  I  shall 
cordially  submit  to  its  rejection,  if  it  is  not  satisfactory  U)  the 
Convention.  I  hoj)e  it  will  not  be  left  for  the  Legislature  to  re- 
duce the  number  of  Represenlativts.  It  is  our  duty  to  reduce 
the  representation,  and  I  hope  whatever  system  shall  be  adopt- 
ed it  will  at  least  effect  this  object. 

Mr.  Neale,  ofE.  con^^idered  it  an  established  principle  that 
the  lepresentation  should  be  reduced  in  the  new  State,  from  that 
©f  Massachusetts.  The  number  of  1500  agreed  on  by  the  com- 
mittee would  reduce  in  one  half;  and  he  though  I  it  preferable 
to  the  proposi(ion  now  offered.  He  was  0|)poseil  to  fixiUii  the 
number, but  only  wished  the  ratio  of  representation  establi>hed  ; 
and  was  for  leaving  the  rest  to  be  settled  by  the  Legislature,  or 
the  people 

Mr.  Whitman,  of  Portland,  said,  tliat  from  the  number  of 
schemes  this  day  suggested,  it  would  t,»e  apparent  no  two  mem- 
bers were  agreed  on  this  subject  ;  and  he  trusted  the  Conven- 
tion were,  by  this  time,  sensible  ol  the  dinicullies  the  conjmiltee 
had  encountered  in  coming  to  an  agreement.  The  scheme  by 
^bem  presented  was  a  compromise  a!  aljout  a  medium  between 
ihe  extremes  of  opinions.  The  committee  had  nearly,  if  not 
quite,  as  many  views  presented  as  are  now  l)e(ore  the  Conven- 
tion.    The  scheme  of  the  committee    (said  Mr.  W.)    is  not  my 


123 

scheme.  Mine  was  totally  different.  Before  I  sit  down  I  wUl 
take  l^ave  to  explain  it  to  the  Convention — not  in  the  hope  or 
expectation  that  it  will  he  adopted  ;  for  as  I  could  not  convince 
the  c^Mtiinittee,  of  which  I  had  the  honor  to  be  a  metiiber,  I  can- 
not suppo-p  I  shall  he  more   ibrtunafe  here. 

We  are.  Sir,  about  to  establish  a  form  of  government — not  for 
one  section  or  another  of  the  State — not  for  the  present  genera- 
tion only — but  for  the  whole  cotnmunily  and  for  posterity.  The 
construction  of  the  Legislative  body  is  the  mo^t  important,  and 
at  the  same  time,  the  n/ost  difficult  part  of  it  We  want  a  House 
of  Representativ«=^s  that  shall  not  be  too  large  to  transact  the  pub- 
lic business  in  a  reasonable  time  ;  and  which  shall  be  large 
enoujj^h  to  embrace  the  talents  and  integrity  of  the  State.  Gen- 
lletnen  seem  to  me  to  have  erroneous  ideas  of  the  objects  of  a 
Legislative  body.  These  have  originated,  no  doubt,  in  some 
degree  frotn  the  construction  of  the  Legislature  of  Massachusetts 
-—a  Legislature  the  wurst  constructed  in  the  Lfnion — It  is  a  per- 
fect anomaly — there  is  nothing  like  it  in  any  other  State.  tts 
Huuse  of  Repieseiitatives  has  at  times  consisted  of  nearly  seven 
hufjdred — sixty  ot  which  inaile  a  quorum.  Gentlemen  say  this 
body  has  been  innocent  ;  and  no  great  inconvenience  has  been 
experienced  iVom  it ;  (hat  le^^islative  business  has  been  transact- 
ed wi  h  facility.  Sir,  it  may  be  so — but  how  has  it  happened  ? 
I  can  tell  genlietnen  how  it  has  happened.  These  seven  hun- 
dred members  have  not  assembled  for  the  |)urpose  ol  legisla- 
tion— Thpy  have  assembled  to  try  the  strength  of  political  par- 
ties— and  for  this  purpose  only.  This  done,  and  they  have  dis- 
persed. Tliis  huge  body  lias  vanished,  and  left,  perhaps,  a 
quorum  behind.  In  a  very  few  days  after  this  assemblage  had 
met  and  organized  the  government,  we  have  found  the  Speaker 
scarcely  able  to  muster  a  quorutn  ot  sixty.  If  more  remained  it 
has  not  been  for  the  purpose  of  general  legislation — !)ut  to  ac- 
complish some  paltry  local  object.  The  members  entrusted  with 
petitions,  or  the  accomplishment  of  some  trifling  object,  have  re- 
mained after  the  multitude  had  di  -persed.  Those  who  have 
remained  have  !)een  the  real  legislators  ;  and  have  transacted 
the  public  business.  Till  thus  reduced  the  public  business  could 
not  be  transacted. 

We  are  never  to  have  a  Representative  body.  I  trust,  like  that 
of  Massachusetts — a  body  perfectly  chaiigeable — composed  of 
one  set  of  men  to-day  and  another  to  morrow — and  that  in  the 
same  session.     A  proposilioa  made  on  one  day  before  one  set  of 


124 

men.  would,  on  another,  come  up  before  an  entire  different  set ; 
atjd  finally  be  considered  by,  perhaps,  a  third.  The  members 
b'  in<;  paid  by  ibeir  respective  town8,and  being  but  scantily  paid, 
consult  ihtir  own  convenience — attend  when  they  can  as  well 
as  not ;  and  no  longer  than  their  towns  are  willing  to  pay  them. 
Htnce  die  towns  an<l  their  Representatives  are  habituated  to 
con/ider  ii  as  no  part  of  their  duty  to  attend  to  any  thing  like 
geiteral  legislation.  Tlie  Representative  is  expected  to  attend 
as  a  kind  of  agent  for  the  town,  to  effect  local  objects  altogeth- 
er. Hrnce  Jt  has  happened  that  the  wealthy  towns,  that  are 
able  and  wiliirjg  to  support  their  Representatives  the  whole  term, 
have  exercised  the  whole  power  of  general  legislation.  In  eve- 
ry other  Stale  the  legislative  body  is  constituted  of  such  mem- 
bers, and  of  such  members  only,  as  can  be  kept  together  for  the 
whole  session  ;  and  as  are  convenient  for  the  despatch  of  busi- 
ness. The  Slate  of  New-York,  with  its  million  of  inhabitants, 
has  a  representative  body  of  about  one  hundred  and  twenty-six. 
Tliv"  great  States  of  Pennsylvania  and  Virginia  have  each  one  of 
nearly  the  sa!ne  size.  Gentlemen  here  will  not  surely  deny 
that  the  inhabitants  of  these  three  States,  are  as  zealous  republi- 
cans as  we  are.  Yet  they  have  never  deemed  a  numerous  host 
of  R«  presentatives  either  necessary  or  pro{)er. 

Gentlemen  may  see,  in  this  Convention,  a  specimen  of  what 
a  body  ol  three  hundred  couid  accomplish.  Here  we  are  with 
all  our  variety  of  opinions  ;  and  each  tenacious  of  his  own  ;  and 
each  teeliug  hiinself  bound  to  vindicate  his  own.  What  pro- 
gress would  this  body  make  in  enacting  all  the  multifarious  laws, 
necessary  to  put  the  new  Government  in  operation  ?  Each 
mexiber  would  pn»pose  his  an}endmer)ts,  and  offer  his  reasons  in 
relation  to  every  section  of  every  bill.  A  representative  body 
of  one  hundred  is  as  large  as  ever  ought  to  be  formed.  In  such 
a  l)ody  a$  much  of  talent  and  of  wisdom  could  be  comprised  as 
could  be  found,  and  as  would  be  requisite.  A  greater  number 
would  unreasonably  impede  the  progress  of  the  public  business. 

Tlie  first  representative  body  under  the  constitution  of  the 
United  States  which  organized  the  new  government,  to  whom 
was  entrusted  the  mighty  affairs  of  this  nation — the  power  of 
mnking  war  and  peace — the  control  over  the  purse  and  the 
s^vord^— consisted  of  al.out  sixty  members.  And  never  were 
juch  iiiiportant  affairs,  before  or  since,  so  ably  managed.  Tlie 
organization  e)f  the  government  was  so  coroplete  as  to  have  re- 
mained, in  a  manner,  untouched  to  the  present  day.     So  per- 


i'25. 

kiect  is  the  Treasury  system  then  organized,  that  as  I  have  beeft 
:.  told,  a  late  Secretary  of  the   Treasury,   when  making  apphca- 
tion  for  anoiher  office,  on  berng  told  that  his  tatents  were  neces- 
'  sary  to  that  office,  replied,  that  it  was  not  so — that  the  Treasury 
-system  was   in  no  such  need  of  a  man  of  talents— that  it  was 
so  perfect  it  would  go  alone.     Th€  business  of  the  nation  has 
never  been  better  transacted  than  by  that  little  House  of  Rep- 
resentatives.    It  had  all  the  talents,  and  all  the  wisdom  that 
could  be,  usef^illy,  combined  in  one  body. 

I  am.  Sir,  utterly  opposed  to  a  large,  unwieldy  representa- 
tive body.  The  people  do  not  demand  it  at  our  hands — nor  do 
they  expect  it.  They  wish  only,  to  be  wisely  and  equally 
represented.  It  is  no  object  with  them  to  have  every  hun- 
dredth man  a  representative.  Let  them  be  but  equally  repre- 
sented; and  by  men  of  their  own  choosing  ;  and,  whether  it 
shall  take  one  thousand  or  five  thousand^  to  elect  one  representa- 
tive, they  care  not.  Has  there  ever  been  any  complaint  that 
.  it  required  30  or. 40,000  to  elect  a  representative  to  Congress? 
Never,  to  my  knowledge. 

I  am,  Sir,  opposed  to  a  body  that  shall  have  power  to  increase 
itself.  I  would,  therefore,  at  once,  have  it  as  large  as  might 
be  convenient  for  business,  and  never  larger,  let  the  population 
become  ever  so  numerous.  When  ^  legislative  body  shall  be- 
co4r»e  too  great  there  is  no  reducing  il — it  will  not  reduce  itself. 
'■■■  Of  this  we  have  ample  evidence  in  the  Legislature  of  Massa- 
chusetts. That  body  of  seven  hundred  never  se*^ms  to  have 
had  the  disposition  ;  and,  if  it  could  have  had  the  disposition^ 
it  has  never  dared  to  attempt  its  rcduc-ion  \w  high,  party 
times,  when  nearly  divided,  neither  party  wouid  dare  to  move 
it,  as  the  other  would  be  sure  to  attack  it,  as  intended  lo  abridge 
the  right  of  representation  ;  and  thereby  render  the  friends  of 
the  measuFe  odious  to  the  people.  Ami  hence  Massachusetts 
has  h;^d  no  chance  for  an  alleviation  fr  )m  any  portion  of  that 
calamity,  but  by  being  separated  from  M^ine, 

The  constitution  of  the  United  States  is  defective  in  this  par- 

.  licular.     Tiiere  is  no  limitation  to  the  size  of  is  House  of  Rep- 

,  resentatives.     It  has  already  increased  »o  a  \\i%y  inconvenient 

size.     From  about  hixty  it  has  now  increased   to    184      It  is 

with  difficulty  that  it  can  despatch  the  public  business.     Hence 

r  tt  is  that  we  have  seena;simple  propo^uioadebated  in  that  body 

?  for  weeks  in  succession.    -The  case  of  John  Artderson   ar*d  the 

^'lestiens  relative  to  the  Seqajoole,  war.. 2ijd  to  interpai  impr.O:V#-= 

JF  ^ 


126 

ment,  consumed  a  fortnight  each.     And  it  will,  nevertheles*, 
be  impossible  ever   to  reduce  the    members  of  this  body.     It 
tvij]  even   increase.     The   members  on  making  a  new  appor- 
tionment, afer  a  census,  will  each  look,  with    a  single  eye,   to. 
bis  particular  district  ;  and  will  not  reduce  the  ratio  of  repre- 
Rentaiion  so  as   to  increa«ie  'he  size  of  his  district  ;  or  diminish 
the  number  to  which  his  S^1te  shall  be  entitled.     Hence  it  will 
happen  that   after  the   taking  of  the  next  census,  in  1820,  the 
^bouse  will   l)e  increased  to,  at  least,   230,  if  not  260  members. 
When  this  will  end  I  know  not.      But  it  cannot  be  long  before 
the  Legislature  must   sit,  perhaps  the  whole  yesir,  and  accom- 
pli.sh  little  or  nothing. 

One  hundred  is  as  many  as  ever  ought  to  compose  a  Hou?e 
of  Rf  presentatives.  And  in  this  State  they  should  be  appor- 
tioned to  the  counties  according  to  population.  And  the  num- 
ber to  which  any  county  may  be  entitled,  should  be  apportioned 
to  be  elected  in  districts  of  convenient  size  formed  of  en»ire 
towns  and  contiguous  territory,  the  exterior  limits  of  each  of 
which  should  be  as  nearly  equidistant  from  a  common  centre 
as  may  be. 

These  apportionments  end  districts  should  not  be  made  too 
often — but  should  be  made  at  stated  periods.  It  should  not  be 
optional  with  a  party  in  power  to  make  them  or  not.  Once  in 
ten  years  after  the  taking  of  each  new  census,  would  be  iuffi- 
ciently  otten.  It  would  not  do  to  allow  it  to  be  done  otherwise. 
It  must  not  be  made  an  engine  of  party.  We,  to  be  sure,  see 
nothing  of  party  among  us,  at  this  time;  and  it  is  a  fortunate 
circumstance,  indeed,  that  we  do  not :  Hut  we  cannot  promise 
ourselves  that  we  ne\er  shall.  The  time  may  come,  nay,  Sir, 
it  must  come,  when  we  shall  see  the  same  scenes  reacted  which 
have  already  disgraced  us.  A  republic  is  said  to  be  the  nursery 
of  party.  It  is  against  these  that  we  must  guard.  When  we 
place  power  in  the  hands  of  our  legislators  we  must,  at  the  same 
iime,  as  much  as  possible,  guard  against  the  abuse  of  it.  If  we 
h)ake  it  in)perative  upon  our  legislators  to  apportion  and  district 
once  in  ten  years  they  will  not  be  able  to  turn  ii  so  much  to 
party  purposes.  If  they  should,  on  making  the  districts,  have 
an  eye  to  such  consideratiens,  they  cannot  foresee  how  soonit 
may  turn  r^^ainst  them.  Such  attempls  have  usually  answered 
a  very  short  l'ivo6  purpose. 

I,  Sir,  protest — utterly  protest — against  the  inequality  of 
your  representative  scht>mc.     It  is  iniquitous  in  principle.     ^^ 


127 

never  can  be  reconciled  to  the  good  sense  of  the  people.  Whek 
we  say  to  a  town,  having  1500  inhabitants,  you  shall  have  one 
representative;  ami,  to  a  town  adjoiniiig  it,  containing  3999 
inhat'itants,  you  shall  have  but  one,  what  will  the  people  say? 
Can  they  understand  such  a  principle  as  this  ?  ^ir,  it  is  arbi- 
trary and  oppressive.  Because  of  an  adventitious  cucurnstance, 
because  a  town  line  happens  to  be  a  little  more  extended,  so  as 
to  have  a  greater  number  of  inhabitants  within  it  you  will  de- 
prive its  inhabitants  of  an  equal  representation.  We  may  just 
as  well  form  large  districts — three  times  as  large  as  would  give 
a  single  representative;  and  say  to  it,  be'rause  we  have  made 
you  a  large  district,  you  shall  be  deprived  of  an  equal  represen- 
tation— you  shall  have  but  one  representative,  if  it  be  an 
object  to  have  but  one  representative  elected  by  any  one  body 
of  men,  divide  your  large  towns  by  parochial  lines  or  other- 
wise.    But  do  not  deprive  them  of  their  equal  rights. 

We,  Sir,  profess  to  be  republicans — and  begin  our  constitu- 
tion by  declaring  al!  men  to  be  born  equally  free,  and  to  have 
equal  unalienable  rights  and  privileges.  And  in  our  appor- 
tionment of  representatives  are  furnishing  a  practical  commen- 
tary upon  this  text.  By  way  of  illustration  of  what  we  mean 
by  equal  rights  we  say  to  the  inhabitants  of  a  large  town  you 
have  but  one  third  as  much  right  as  the  inhabitants  of  a  ?»mall 
town.  Three  men  in  a  large  town  are  but  equal  to  one  in  £ 
small  one. 

I  beg  gentlemen  to  consider  what  they  are  about ;  and  how 
they  establish  principles.  An  erroneous  principle  will  be  a 
two  edged  sword — it  will  cut  both  ways — at  present  it  will 
injure  only  the  towns  that  are  now  large — But  it  should  be  re- 
membered that  the  towns  which  are  now  small,  are  becoming 
large.  They  will  feel,  in  their  turn,  the  iniquitous  operation 
of  this  principle.  A  time  serving  policy  is  not  that  which 
should  govern  the  framers  of  a  constitution.  Let  us  look  with  a 
single  eye  to  principle — to  correct  princir)le — and  we  shall  be 
in  no  danger.  If  we  pursue  a  straight  forward  course — if  we 
at  this  time  look  for  nothino;  but  what  is  f>iiv  and  honest,  we  shall 
be  in  no  danger,  now  or  hereafter.  Oij  the  other  hand  no  man 
can  fee  the  mischievous  efrHCts  consequent  upon  crooked  policy^ 

If  we  were  now  to  limit  the  number  of  represeniatives  to  one 
hundred,  and  apportion  them  equally  in  the  State;  securing 
'.»  every  individual  his  equal  influence,  the  people  would  un- 
-^^^rstand  it ;  and  fee  satisfied.     The  whole  State  would  then  he 


1]2» 

districted — All  ivould  be  served  alike  and  we  should  hear  no 
complaint.  The  tuoiigrel  system  of  partly  districting  an«[ 
partly  not,  would  excite  no  jealour»ies  and  heart  burnings  in  ihe 
small  towns  ;  and  the  large  towns  would  enjoy  their  equal  rights. 

Sir,  («aid  Mr.  W.)  I  have,  I  fear,  trespassed  too  much  upon 
the  time  of  this  Convention.  My  acknowledgments  are  due 
for  their  patient  altenlion.  1  will  not  now  lake  up  more  of 
their  time. 

Mr.  Holmes  said  there  was  a  difference  of  opinion  among  the 
members  of  the  Convention,  as  to  the  limitation  of  the  num- 
ber of  representatives.  On  the  one  hand  it  is  said  some  are  for 
restricting  the  number,  and  on  the  other,  some  are  for  leaving 
it  unlimited.  [  will  offer  a  scheme  which  will  leave  it  to  the 
people  themselves  to  determine  the  question.  This  amend- 
ment will  be  found  aKerwards. 

Mr.  Hobbs  had  seen  no  scheme  which  suited  him  so  well  as 
the  report.  A  part,  he  thought,  might  be  amended  so  as  to 
provide  that  the  representation  should. increase  with  the  popu- 
lation. 

Mr.  Baldwin,  of  Blercer.  Mr.  President — This  busiriess  of 
representation  seems  to  involve  a  great  many  difficulties.  Some 
gentlemen  argue  that  no  mode  can  be  equal  and  just  but  that  of 
districting,  so  that  every  portion  of  territory  shall  have  a  number 
of  representatives  according  to  their  population  ;  others  argue 
that  corporate  representation  Is  the  only  system  that  can  give 
satisfaction  to  the  people  at  large.  How  far  these  different  sys- 
terns  are  correct,  must  be  left  for  every  man  to  determine  for 
himself,  according  to  the  best  light  he  can  obtain  on  the  subject. 
That  a  districting  system  is  not  equal  has  generally  been  grant- 
ed, by  those  who  have  been  the  framers  of  former  constitution^ 
in  the  New-England  States.  >  It  is  strenuously  argued  by  gen- 
tlemen  who  live  in-the  large  tow~ns,  that  tliers  is  no  reason  why 
they  should  not  have  a«um4ier  of  repieseUiatives  in  exact  pro- 
portion to  tiieir  population  ;  but  it  appears  to  me  this  reasoning 
ja  not  conclusive  ;  for  in  the  first  place,,  the  new  towns  and  plan 
tations  are  not  furnished  with  men  ol  equal  acquirements  with 
the  old  towns.  Gentlemen  who  have  spent  the  greater  part  of 
their  lives  in  study,  and  especially  the  study  of  elocution,  an<! 
that  on  purpose  toenable  them  to  shine  in  courts,  will  generaUj 
settle  ill  cities  or  populous  places  ;  the  reason  is,  money  is  al 
ways  scarce  in  those  new  settlements:  there  is  nothing  to  in- 
t.ji3.uce  men  of  great  abilities,  especially  me!]  of  great  acquirer 


129 

abilities,  to  settle  in  new  and  thinly  inhabited  places :  money 
is  the  lure. 

Now,  Sir,  I  have  said  it,  and  am  bold  to  say  it  again,  that 
one  gentleman  (Vocn  Portland  has  more  influence  in  this  Con- 
vention, than  the  whole  delegation  from  Somerset  county, 
which  is  twenty  nine  members.  Ti  e  reason  is  obvious.  The 
members  tVom  cnuntry  places  are  mostly  farmers  ;  and  they 
will  generally  sit  from  one  end  of  the  session  to  the  other  with- 
out saying  a  word.  Where  there  is  an  assemblai^e  of  the  most 
brilliant  talents  and  literary  accomplishments  from  all  parts  of 
the  State,  the  farmer  is  loth  to  expose  his  ignorance  and  weak- 
ness, and  hazard  being  made  the  butt  of  ridicule  for  his  blun- 
ders and  every  day  language.  And  if  now  and  then  one  dares 
venture  out,  and  blunder  on  in  his  home  made,  every  day,  far- 
mer dialect,  his  only  security  is  confidence.  If  he  has  plenty 
of  brass,  and  a  good  share  of  common  sense,  he  may  possibly 
jog  on,  and  hold  up  his  end  tolerably  wel',  in  a  ludicrous  man- 
ner ;  but  such  instances  are  rare.  For  the  most  part,  (and  1  re- 
peat it  with  confidence)  one  man  who  is  master  of  all  the  al- 
luring, persuasive,  and  insinuating  charms  of  eloquence,  will 
carry  more  swav  in  a  legislative  body,  than  thirty  silent  mem- 
bers from  the  country.  Now  Sir,  1  think  it  has  been  a  given 
point,  a  settled  principle,  in  forming  Constitutions  in  other 
States,  that  the  small  towns,  and  thinly  settled  parts  of  the 
Slate,  should  have  more  representatives  according  to  their  num- 
ber, than  older  and  more  compact  towns.  In  New-Hampshire, 
150  ratable  polls,  of  21  years  of  age  and  upwards,  gives  one 
representative  ;  450  gives  two — 300  i$  the  increasing  ratio.  In 
the  State  of  Georgia,  3000  souls,  including  three  fifths  of  the 
people  of  color,  have  two  representatives  ;  7000  three,  12000 
four  ;  but  no  county  shall  ever  send  more  than  four,  and  each 
county  loay  send  one.  And  even  in  Old  Massachusetts,  the 
Constitution  under  which  we  have  so  long  lived,  150  ratable 
polls  of  any  kind,  gives  a  town  one  representative  ;  225  is  the 
increasing  ratio;  and  as  often  as  any  town  can  add  this  num- 
ber, 225  polls,  so  often  there  is  an  additional  representative. 
But  no  provision  is  made  for  those  towns  that  have  less  than 
150  polls,  or  for  plantations  ;  they  might  as  well  live  in  Ger- 
many, or  the  island  of  Otabeite  in  the  South  Sea,  on  account  of 
being  any  thing  the  better  for  representation.  We  will  say  the 
town  of  Boston  is  about  two  miles  in  length  and  one  in  breadth, 
of  course  there  is  two  square   miles   or  thereabouts.      Let  me 


130 

propose  this  one  plain  question — Suppose  six  new  towns  arf 
clasj-e J  l(>gtithpr  fur  I  fie  purpose  of  sein^ir^oja  Representative, 
these  tuwny  are  six  miles  square,  maki  >2:  21d  square  miles, these 
towns  sen«l  one  man,  Uje  hest  they  can  fi  jJ  am^njr  thern,  an 
honest  old  (armer,  a  steady  pluughjot^jger  ;  he  attends,  sits  si- 
Jent  all  the  session  and  ail  the  year  if  he  goes,  uide^s  he  is  re- 
quested  to  give  his  yea  or  nay.  The  town  of  Boston  ^hall  send 
three  and  they  wi/l  take  care  that  they  are  mefi  of  itjfonnation, 
and  the  fiest  mfoimation,  men  who  have  spent  their  whole  lives 
in  study,  men  who  are  profound  politicians,  the  most  ahle 
statesmen,  and  eloquent  orators.  The  question  is  who  will  be 
the  best  represented,  the  two  square  miles  in  Boston,  or  216 
miles  in  the  woods  according  to  their  wealth  and  population  ? 
I  can  see  no  possible  rea^^on  vvhy  an  equal  ntjmber  of  represen- 
latives  should  bt  given  to  an  equil  populaiion,    unless  it    be  to 

serve  party  or  local  interests The  old,  the  rich,  the  populous 

towns  wdl  after  all,  on  the  principles  that  1  have  laid  dowL  have 
the  balance  of  influence  in  their  favor.  Let  the  whole  be  fairly 
represented  ;  let  rpp'esentation  descend  to  the  lowest  ana  most 
obscure  classes  of  our  citizens  ;  they  wish  to  be  represented, 
and  it  is  an  indefeasible  right  of  which  none  ever  ought  to  be 
deprived.  It  see(n«  to  be  the  general  voice  *'  less«-n  the  repre- 
sentation ;"  this  1  believe  may  be  done  on  principles  oi  equity, 
«o  that  the  present  mode  of  representation  may  be  reduced  a- 
bout  three  fifths,  and  in  ^^uch  a  manner  as  not  to  be  too  small, 
nor  so  large  as  to  be  a  public  burthen,  but  all  fairly  represented, 
all  paid  out  of  the  public  treasury,  then  all  have  an  equal  voice 
in  making  laws,  all  are  equally  under  its  control,  and  all  equal- 
ly share  in  its  protection. 

Take  the  report  of  your  committee,  diseBgaged  from  the  era- 
barrassment  of  county  lines,  and  the  restriction  of  limited  num- 
bers ;  our  constituents  witl  be  pleased — our  Constitution  ac- 
cepted, and  prove  a  rich  and  lasting  blessing  to  the  inhabitants 
of  Maine. 


JlFTERJVOOJV'-'Br.  Rose.  Mr.  President— A^i  all  are  of. 
fering  their  projects,  I  will  also  offer  one.  .The  system  of  dis- 
tricts might  save  some  part  of  the  expense  of  legi^latirjg,  but 
would  it  save  expense  to  the  people  ?  I  think  not,  since  the  ex- 
pense of  elections  would  be  greatly  increased.  He  then  offer- 
ed a  projf-ct,  that  the  Representatives  might  be  cho«en  as  here- 
tofore, until  1824,  when  it  should  be  le(t  to  the  people  to  re« 


131 

duce  the  num>^er,  to  from  200  to  100,  to  be  apportioned  oil 
the  couniiv^s  according^   to  popuLition 

Gen.  Chandlei's  motion  to  commit  ihe  »\hole  subject  to  a  se- 
lect commiitee,  to  digf^st  the  various  pr  posit irn-  which  had 
been  made,  and  report  a  new  Schemes,  being  stiil  befure  the 
Convention — 

Judge  Bridge  said,  he  had  made  a  motii^n  in  the  mornmg, 
which  was  not  then  in  order  •  but  the  n'oiion  then  under  con- 
siderntion  having  been  withdrawn,  lie  would  now,  it  in  order, 
renew  his  motion  to  strike  out  *'  two  hundred."  and  insert 
**  three  hundred,"  as  ihf  highest  limit  of  the  nuniber  of  Repre- 
seniruives. 

Gen.  Chandler  was  willing  to  give  way,  so  far  as  to  give  that 
motion  thp  preference 

Mr.  U^hf-r   wished  the  moti  >r»  to  strike  out,  to  be  taken  first. 

Mr.  Hohrits  and  Judge  Pariis,  differed  as  to  the  question, 
whether  the  motion  were  divisible. 

Judge  Bridge  declined  dividing  his  motion,  and  preferred 
withdrawing  it. 

Judge  Cony  beirged  leave  to  sngjjest,  whether  it  WduW  rrol 
be  proper  to  begin  with  the  scnaliest  number  first. 

The  question  be?ng  taken  on  ?.di>p  iog  the  motion  of  Judge 
Bridge,  it  passed  in  the  negative,  bt  rising  in  fasor,  and  lb© 
against  it. 

Mr.  Usher  then  renewed  this  motion  nf  yesterday,  that  the 
words  in  the  second  section,  which  limited  the  number  o(  Rep- 
resentatives, should  be  striken  out.  He  wished  to  take  the  sense 
of  the  Convention,  whether  they  would  leave  the  num!>er  un- 
limited, beginning  at  I5L0  inhabitants  for  one  Representative, 
according  to  the  report  of  the  committee,  and  following  their 
ratio. 

Col.  Moody  Wc-NS  unwilling  a  Constitution  should  go  out  to  the 
people  with  an  unlimited  representation. 

The  question  on  Mr.  U^he^'s  motion  was  decided  in  the  neg- 
ative, 106  being  in  favor,  and  129  again*t  it 

Judge  Cony  moved,  that  the  section  should  be  so  amended, 
that  the  number  of  repiesenta'ives  should  be  not  less  than  one 
hundred,  nor  more  tha**  one  hundred  and  filty.  He  believed 
the  people  expect  a  limilatinnof  the  representation,  and  that  a 
Con-titulion  provi(ii  ig  for  it,  would   be  accepted  by  them. 

Tliis  n  otion  was  lost. 

Mr.  Whiunaa.    I  bad  the  honor  of  submitting  a  few  remarks 


132 

in  \he  morning,  and  as  s^entlemen  have  observed,  that  1  did  not 
offer  a  suJ>stitute,  for  thai   p.rt  of  ihe  report  which  1  would  re- 
ject, 1  will  now  do  it.    lo  p.ursuanc^  oi  the  scheme  which  I  sug- 
gested,  I  will  offer  an  ameiulrripnt,  which    is  to  strike  out  that 
part  of  ihe  second  section,  and  irisert  the  following  ; — "  for  the 
purpose  of  electing;  Rf^pre«?en  alives,   each  county   shall  l>e  di- 
vided   into    Districts,  consisting   of  one  or   more  entire  towns, 
comprising;  contiguous  territory,  the  exterior  hmits   of  each  of 
which,  if  consisting  of  more  than  one  town,  shall  be  as  nearly 
equidistant  from  a  common  centre  as  may  he,  and  not  exceed- 
ing nor  falling  short    n.ore  th^in  iei^  per  centum  of  the   precise 
number  of  inhabitants  requisite  to  entitle  such  district  t<>  send 
©ne  representative.      But  whenever  a  district  cannot  be  formed 
in  manner  aforesaid,  consisting  of  more  towns  than  one,  com- 
prising the  number  of  inhabitants  to  entitle  it  to  elect  one  lep- 
resentative,  a  district  may  be  formed  in  manner  aforesaid,  con- 
taining the  requisite  number,  or  within  ten  per  centum  more  or 
less   thereof,  to  enutle  it   to  elect  a  greater  number,  being  aa 
few  as  practicable,  and  in  no  case  ♦xceeding  five  representa- 
tives.    Provided  horvever,   that    any    single  iown,    containing 
within  ien  per  centum  more  or  less,  than  the  requisite  number  of 
inhabitants,  to   entitle  it  to  elect  one  or  more  representatives, 
shall  be  considered  a  district  for  the  purpose  of  electing  the  cor- 
responding number  of  representatives.     The  number  of  inbab-» 
itants  in  any  district  entitled  to  a  representative,  shall  be  equiv- 
alent, as  near  as  may  be,  to  the  product  of  the   whole  number 
of  inhabitants  in  such  county,    divided  by  the  number  of  rep- 
resentatives assigned  to  it  " 

The  question  on  adopting  this  amendment  was  decided  in  the 
negative,  by  24  only  voting  in  favor. 

Mr.  Holmes,  now  brought  forward  his  proposition,  which  he 
had  offered  in  the  morning — to  strike  out  *'  two  hundred,*'  and 
insert  the  following  :  '*  and  whenever  the  number  of  represen- 
tatives,  shall  amount  to  two  hundred  at  the  next  annual  meet- 
ing of  electors,  which  shall  thereafter  happen  at  every  subse- 
quent period  of  ten  years — the  jteople  shall  give  in  theii  votes 
on  the  question,  whether  the  number  of  representative^  shall  be 
increased  ;  and  if  a  majority  of  votes  are  in  favor  thereof,  it 
shall  be  the  duty  of  the  next  Legislature  thereafter,  to  increase 
the  number  by  the  rule  hereinafter  prescribed.'*  If  the  num- 
ber should  be  increased  as  (he  population  increases,  the  gentle- 
man will  not  be  so  much  alarmed  at  the  limitation. 


133 

Judge  Thacher  was  pleased  with  that  part  of  the  proposition 
which  letl  it  with  the  people  to  deci  ie  whether  the  liumber  ot 
Representatives  shall  lie  increased,  but  he  also  wished  it  should 
be  left  to  them  to  diminish  their  number.  He  thought  it  ought 
to  be  a  knife  which  would  cut  both  ways.  He  therefore  mov- 
ed to  amend  the  amendment  of  Mr.  Hclmes,  by  inserting  the 
word  "  diminished." 

The  motion  passed  in  the  affirmative,  by  159  to  38. 

The  quesiion  was  then  taken  on  adopting  Mr.  Holines'  amend- 
Kient,  and  it  passed  in  the  affirmative,  16  only  rising  against  it. 

Mr.  Miliikin,  of  Frankfort,  moved  to  strike  out  all  the  Report 
relating  to  the  apportionment  among  the  counties. 

Gen,  Chandler  called  for  the  decision  upon  his  txiotion  to 
commit  thf»  several  proposals. 

Judge  Parris  said,  he  wished  the  question  to  be  decided, 
whether  the  Convention  will  proceed  to  fix  the  ratio,  or  only  to 
limit  the  numbers  of  the  representatives,  and  leave  the  appor- 
tionment to  the  Legislature. 

Mr.  Holmes  hoped  the  section  would  not  be  committed,  un- 
til the  Convention  had  decided  the  principles  ;  and  then  that 
it  be  comuiilled  to  a  revi.sing  committee,  to  put  the  several 
amendments  into  form.  It  would  be  a  great  saving  of  time,  to 
adopt  this  course. 

Judge  Green   thought  the  sense  of  the  Convention  had  better 
be  taken  on  adopting  the  section,  which  would  save  the  neces- 
sity ot  committing. 
^^u    Gen.  Chandler   considered  it  preferable  to  commit  ;  and  said 
*  the  sense  of  the  Convention,  as  to  the  section,  might  be  as  well 
„    taken  on  this  quesiion  as  the  oiher. 

Judge  Thacher  was  opposed  to  a  commitment. 

Mr.  Holmes  could  see  no  reason  for  commiliing,  unless  for 
^^  .the  purpose  of  going  over  the  same  ground  to-morrow,  which 
we  have  gone  over  to-day.  And,  said  he,  I  hope  we  shall  not 
waste  the  lime  of  our  constituents,  by  giving  it  up  to  a  commit- 
tee, but  that  the  sense  of  the  Convention  will  be  taken  on  the 
principle  of  (he  report. 

Mr.  Dearborn,  of  Hallowell,  was  opposed  to  the  commitment, 
until  the  question  was  taken  upon  the  principle  of  apportion- 
ment, or  unless  special  directions  should  be  given  to  the  com- 
mittee. We  have,  said  Mr.  D.  already  had  this  subject  before 
a  large  and  highly  respectable  committee,  and  it  was  confident- 
ly hoped,  that  upon  this  interesting  and  all  important  questiori 


134 

of  form/ng  a  House  of  Representatives,  kheir  labors  would  have 
produced  some  scheme  or  project,  by  which  a  fair  and  equal 
representation  of  the  people  would  be  returned  to  the  house. 
But,  Mr.  President,  have  they  done  it  ?  I  answer  no.  Of  all 
instruments,  whet  up  and  sharpened  for  the  purpose  of  carving 
and  dissecting  the  State  into  unequal  parts,  this — the  scheme  of 
the  Committee — is  the  most  complete.  Mr.  D.  wished  the  whole 
question,  in  relation  to  that  body  which  is  to  hold  the  purse- 
strings  of  the  State,  to  be  brought  fairly  before  ihe  Convention, 
and  not  be  committed  until  the  project  reported  by  the  commit- 
tee was  sifted  to  the  bottom. 

Mr.  D.  here  went  into  an  examination  of  the  report,  stating 
its  uuequal  and  oppiessive  bearings  upon  certain  towns  and  dis- 
tricts ;  and  stated  that  seventy  Jive  thousand  inhabitants  would 
be,  by  this  bill,  deprived  of  a  representation  in  the  house.  The 
famous  districting  bill  of  the  Massachusetts  Legislature  in  18]  1, 
that  shook,  and  almost  convulsed  the  whole  Commonwealth  to 
its  centre,  fell  as  far  short  of  the  present,  in  point  of  deformity, 
as  this  does  short  of  the  rotten  borough  system  of  Great  Britain. 
Will  the  people  of  Maine  support  this  ?  Will  not  the  free  vo- 
ters murujur  and  complain?  1  will  venture  to  say  they  will. 
And  altl»o\jgh  their  murmurings  may  be  slill  and  low  at  first, 
it  would  increase  to  the  voice  of  thunder  at  the  polls,  when  the 
Constitution  is  before  them,  and  by  its  rejection  make  them- 
selves heard  at  the  second  session  of  this  Convention. 

Judge  Thacher  observed,  that  as  far  as  he  understood  the 
'ventleman  on  the  sul)ject,  he  strongly  suspected  the  nature  and 
operation  of  the  supposed  inequality  of  representation  on  ac- 
eountof  the  inactions  was  not  clearly  comprehended. The  ground 
of  the  objection  with  the  gentleman  from  Hallovvell,  was, 
that  the/ractiotis  were  not  represented,  and  that  this  bor^  harder 
on  the  large,  than  on  the  small  towns.  Now  be  thought  that  if 
{he/act  was  looked  into,  and  its  natural  progress  accurately  no- 
ted, it  would  turn  out  that  the  small  towns  not  the  large  ones, 
would  most  probably  be  the  greatest  sufferers.  Because  it  is 
Dotorious,  the  large  commercial  towns,  and  the  demi  commer- 
cial ones,  OH  great  rivers,  that  is,  towns  partly  trading,  partly 
comm.ercial,  and  partlv  agricultural,  increase  much  more  rap- 
idly than  the  inland  towns  (hat  are  altogether  agricultuial. 
Compare  Portland,  with  the  inland  agricultural  towns  in  Cum- 
berland ,•  or  Bath  and  Hallowell,  with  the  back  country  towns, 
^nd  see  wfaich  have  increased   most.     Look  to  the  old  part  of 


135 

the  State.  We  there  shall  find  aj];rirultural  towns,  that  for  half 
d  century  have  added  but  a  small  number  of  inhabitants  to  its 
population  duriijg  that  lapse  of  time,  while  Boston  has  doubled 
and  trebled  its  numbers.  Portland  has  probably  more  than 
doubled  its  inhabitants,  while  many  of  the  inland  towns,  in  the 
same  period,  have  made  only  sn.dll  additions  to  its  inhabitants. 
And  it  is  a  geueral  fact,  that  while  agriculiural  towns  get 
nearly  the  complement  of  inhabitants  they  will  aiaintain,  they 
must  remain  for  ages  without  rBuch  increase,  but  seaports  will 
be  on  a  rapid  increase.  The  certain  consequence  of  this  state 
of  things  then  will  be,  that  the  mirepresenied  fractions,  in  the 
large  commercial  towns,  must  be  of  that  duration,  because  the 
periods  from  the  time  they  have  inhabitants  enough  to  send  one 
representative,  to  that  ol  enough  to.«end  two,  three,  4'C.  will  be 
short,  very  short,  compared  with  the  corresponding  periods  in 
the  small  agricultural  towns.  Many  of  the  agricultural  towns 
now  send  one  representative,  and  perhaps  have  a  fraction  of 
three  or  four  hundred  besides  ;  and  their  increase  will  be  so 
slow,  that  probably  half  a  century  will  elapse,  before,  if  ever, 
they  can  be  entitled  to  send  two.  This  will  never  be  the  case 
of  the  large  towns,  as  they  are  understood  in  the  objection.  Look 
through  the  United  States,  and  it  will  be  found  llieir  increase  is 
constantly  in  an  accelerated  ratio  to  their  size  compared  with 
smaller  ones.  Hence  he  concluded,  that  since  the  objection  did 
not  come  from  the  agricultural  towns,  on  whom  its  principle  will 
bear  the  hardest,  if  there  is  anv  thing  in  it,  the  large  towns, 
such  as  Portland,  Bath,  Hallowell,  and  those  Jik«  thera,  ought 
not,  or  rather  cannot,  make  the  objection. 

The  motion  to  commit  was  lost,  191  to  36. 

The  question  on  adopting  Gen.  VVingale's  amendnnent  was 
now  taken,  and  decided  agcTiust  it. 

The  vote  was  then  j)Ut  upon  adopting  the  second  section,  and 
W.  passed  in  the  affirmative,  191  being  in  favor,  and  36  agaiusi  it. 

Adjourned. 

FRIDAY,  OCT.  22. 

Sec.  3,  Art.  4th,  under  consideration. 

Col.  Atherton,  of  Prospect,  submitted  a  motion  to  district  the 
whole  State,  for  the  choice  of  Representatives.  He  was  most 
decidedly  opposed  to  the  representation  as  appoi limned  by  the 
3d  section,  as  arbitrary  and  unequal.  It  sanctioned  a  principle 
which  by  no  ra^ans  can  find  a  justification  \n  the  bill  of  rignts 
already  adopted. 


]36 

The  section  provide?,  (hat  *'  each  town  having  1600  inhabi 
tants,  shall  be  entitled  to  one  Representative  ;  each  town  hav- 
ing 4000  inhabitants,  shall  be  entitled  to  two  ;  and  each  town 
having  7500  inhabitants,  to  three  Rrpiesentatives,  and  pro- 
ciedingin  ihe  same  increasing  ratio  for  every  additional  Rep- 
resentative." And,  '*  that  the  Representatives  on  Ihe  first  ap- 
portionment, shall  not  be  less  than  100,  nor  exceeding  loO." 
Admitting  then,  (said  he)  Mr.  President,  ihat  the  present  pop. 
Illation  of  the  whole  District  is  equal  to  SOU  000,  and  that  the 
whole  number  150,  proposed  by  this  part  of  the  report  should 
be  elected,  then  divide  the  whole  population  by  1500,  and  we 
tliall  come  to  this  result,  Ihat  75,000  of  the  inhabitants  ar«^  de- 
prived of  their  suffrages  ;  or  in  other  words  have  no  voice  what- 
ever in  the  election  of  their  representatives.  He  appealed  to 
the  Honorable  President  and  tlie  Honorable  Members  of  fhe 
Convention,  and  demanded  to  know,  whether  he,  or  they,  or 
any  gentleman  on  that  floor,  were  prepared  to  relinquish  their 
rights  on  this  subject  ;  whether  tliey  were  ready  at  this  early 
stage  of  the  new  government,  to  abandon  to  others  their  elective 
franchise  ?  He  trusted  this  was  not  the  case  with  any  gentle- 
man present,  and  that  they  would  find  their  constituents  equally 
tenacious  with  themselves  of  this  inestimable  privilege  of  free- 
men. The  town  he  had  the  honor  to  represent,  was  not  so  ma- 
terially affected  by  this  measure  as  many  others,  yet  he  did 
not  consider  that  he  was  acting  for  that  town  only,  but  for  the 
whule  people.  Gentlemen  had  said  much  about  the  views  and 
expectations  of  .their  constituents — that  they  would  like  this 
measure,  or  oppose  that  ;  at  the  same  time  expressing  their  ap- 
prehensions as  to  their  reception  of  the  Constituti)H.  For  hi«n- 
self,  he  was  not  disposed  to  consult  either  the  whims  or  the 
caprices  of  Hs  constituents,  if  they  had  any,  nor  did  they  ex- 
pect it  of  him.  He  fell  himself  bound  to  exercise  his  soundest 
discretion  and  intelligence  for  iheir  best  interests.  He  had  hotv- 
ever  taken  pains  to  ascertain  their  opinions  on  this  sutjject,  and 
he  believed  he  could  safely  assert,  that  they  were  generally  in 
favor  of  a  reduced  representation,  thereby  saving  to  themselves 
and  the  new  State,  a  great  and  unnecessary  expense.  His  con- 
stituents were  in  favor  of  a  just  and  equal  representation  appor- 
tioned to  numbers,  and  that  they  would  be  satisfied  with  no  oth- 
er. He  lamented  to  say,  that  he  bad  lived  to  witness  90,000  of 
the  freemen  of  Massachusetts,  (the  militia)  under  color  of  the 
constitution,  deprived  by  almost  a  single  stroke  of  the  peB,  of 


137 

iheir  "  equal  rights  and  privileges."  And  he  warned  the  Con- 
vention  to  beware  how  they  infringed  the  rights  of  the  people, 
at  the  incipient  stages  of  the  new  government.  After  explain- 
ing further  his  views  on  this  interesting  subject,  and  intimating 
that  the  only  equitable  mode  which  he  could  suggest,  was  that 
of  districting  and  apportioning  the  representation  according  to 
the  population  of  the  several  counties  or  districts,  be  submitted 
the  following  amendment  ;     , 

"  Each  town  shall  be  entitled  to  one  representative  for  every 
3000  inhabitants,  and  towns  not  haviug  3000  inhabitants,  shall 
be  classed  as  conveniently  as  may  be,  into  districts  containing 
not  less  than  that  number,  and  each  such  district  shall  be  enti- 
tled to  one  representative.  The  number  of  representatives  shall 
be  apportioned  to  the  number  of  inhabitants  of  each  county  ; 
the  counties  shall  be  divided  into  districts  of  3,  6,  and  9000, 
and  every  such  district  shall  be  entitled  to  one  representative 
for  every  3000  inhat  itants.  Provided  however,  that  a  district 
containing  more  than  one  town,  and  entitled  to  more  than  one 
representative,  shall  not  choose  both  of  said  representatives  frooa 
one  town." 

Judge  Briilge.  Mr.  President — There  have  been  two  modes 
proposed,  by  which  the  representation,  which  it  is  so  desirable 
to  jeduce,  should  be  kept  down,  and  both  have  their  advocates. 
One  is,  that  of  districting,  by  which  the  number  may  be  fixed, 
and  kept  invariably  the  same.  The  other  is,  by  adopting  a  ra- 
tio, which  is  included  in  the  scheme  proposed  by  the  commit- 
tee. I  believe.  Sir,  it  u  ill  be  most  expedient  to  adopt  (his  plan, 
in  preference  to  any  which  has  been  exhibited,  and  especiaDy 
that  of  di-tncts.  1  have  not  much  confidence  in  political  theo- 
ries, until  I  see  their  application  to  practice.  This  has  been 
^one  in  the  plan  agreed  on,  by  which  one  hundred  and  forty- 
four  members  will  he  elected  for  the  first  Legi^^lature.  And  this 
has  been  done  in  the  schenic  proposed,  by  the  ratio  of  fit^teeti 
hundred,  which  will  give  about  one  hundred  and  fifty  represen- 
tatives lor  the  first  Legislature  elected  under  it.  In  the  county 
of  York,  they  have  been  distributed  with  as  much  equality  as 
possible,  and  I  presume  there  will  not,  in  that  county,  a  hand 
be  raised  against  it.  There  the  population  is  nearly  full,  and 
will  not  much  increase.  If  any  scljeme  proposed  produced 
much  inconvenience  to  that  county,  ii  would  be  objectionable, 
because  not  easily  remedied  It  Is  this  which  makes  the  evik 
of  life  intolerable — die  impossibility  ol  removing  ther^u 
12*        ■ 


138 

The  Judge  theu  called  the  attention  of  the  Convention  to  its 
operation  on  the  county  of  York,  which  he  eiplained,  and  then 
proceeded. 

Now,  Sir,  is  not  this  as  perfect  a  representation  as  it  is  possi- 
ble to  devise  ?  This  gives  as  nearly  as  can  be,  what  the  oth- 
er counties  will  eventually  come  to.  Would  you  have  left  them 
as  equal  an  arrangement  by  any  other  scheme  ? 

I  think,  concluded  the  Judge,  that  the  system  of  districting, 
arises  from  a  disposition  to  theorise,  and  not  from  an  attention 
to  the  actual  condition  and  situation  of  things.  I  think  there  is 
no  method  so  equal  in  operation,  as  that  proposed  in  the  report, 
and  therefore  hope  the  system  of  districting  will  not  prevail. 

Dr.  Kose  and  Mr.  Locke,  wished  the  question  divided,  so  as 
to  take  the  vote  on  the  subject  of  districting  by  itself. 

The  question  was  put  upon  that  part  of  the  motion  which  re- 
Jates  to  the  dividing  the  State  Into  county  districts  for  the  choice 
of  representatives,  which  motion  was  negatived,  and  the  amend- 
ment did  not  prevail. 

Mr.  Allen,  of  Norridgwock.  Mr.  President — I  understand 
there  are  two  things  to  be  considered  by  the  Convention.  One 
is,  to  fix  upon  a  small  number  of  representatives,  which  must  re- 
sult in  districts  ;  the  other  is  a  representation  of  towns.  One  of 
these  we  must  adopt,  or  otherwise  we  must  take  a  middle  course. 
The  one  that  will  accommodate  the  greatest  number  of  townsj 
and  the  largest  part  of  the  population,  will  be  most  likely  to  he 
accepted.  1  have  proposed  to  retain  the  report,  and  reduce 
the  ratio  from  1500  to  1200.  My  object  is  to  prevent  the  ne- 
cessity of  uniting  towns,  as  is  now  the  case,  whose  interests  are 
diverse.  He  then  moved  to  amend  the  third  section  by  striking 
out   "  fifteen,"  and  inf-erling  **  twelve." 

Judge  Bridge.  I  hope  the  alteration  will  not  take  place. 
From  the  best  calculations  we  could  make,  the  number  of  the 
first  Legi  lature  will  be  one  hundred  and  fifty.  This  is  a  larger 
number  than  has  generally  been  expected — or  than  this  Con- 
vention would  like,  if  it  can  conveniently  be  prevented.  Now, 
St  where  does  the  inconvenience  wkich  is  complained  of  fall  ? 
It  will  fail  upon  twenty  or  thirty  towns,  which  are  to  be  reliev- 
ed by  changing  the  numbe'"s.  But  will  this  inconvenience  be 
lasting  ?  It  will  not,  Sir.  They  are  rapidly  increasing,  and  wiil 
3oon  arrive  to  the  number  requi-ie  to  entitle  th^m  to  send  an 
additional  representative. 

Mr.  Holmes  sa'.d,  it  is  my  business  to  defend  the  report  only 


139^ 

when  its  principle!?  are  attacked.  You  have  limited  the  first' 
Legislature,  from  one  hundred,  to  one  hundred  and  fifty,  and 
thex-e  additions  arc  to  be  made  according  to  the  increase  of  pop- 
ulation. The  Legislature  will  apportion  the  numbers  between 
lUOand  150,  and  if  the  amount  is  too  small,  will  raise,  and  if 
too  large  reduce  it.  I  believe  that  on  this  principle  twelve  hun- 
dred will  give  a  larger  number  than  is  admitted.  As  the  prin- 
ciple now  stands,  it  is  immaterial,  as)^our  Legislature  may  in- 
crease or  diminish  the  number,  and  either  way  it  will  eorae  to 
the  same  result. 

Mr.  Allen  said,  if  the  population  is  300,000  and  it  be  equally 
divided,  the  number  will  amount  to  two  hundred,  taking  fifteen 
hundred  inhabitants  tor  each.  And  if  we  estimate  what  it  will 
be  in  five  years  we  shall  find  it  will  require  eighteen  hundred 
inhabitants  to  elect  one. 

The  motion  to  strike  out  1300  and  insert  1200  was  lost,  15Q 
to  86. 

Mr  Herrick  (of  B.)  Mr.  President — The  most  odious  fea- 
ture in  this  scheme  is  the  arbitrary  mode  of  classing  small 
towns.  This,  Sir,  is  a  truly  hideous  monster  that  will  be  pro- 
ductive of  great  evils  in  practice.  The  union  of  Lewiston  and 
Wales  is  monstrous ;  but  it  is  the  inevitable  result  of  the  system. 
There  are  no  small  towns  in  that  part  of  the  couBtry  with  which 
they  can  be  classed.  These  towns  being  remote,  their  inhabi- 
tants are  strangers,  and  if  it  were  not  so  they  may  have  clashing 
interests,  so  as  to  render  the  privilege  to  small  towns  of  little  or 
no  value.  The  same  incongruity  might  be  pointed  out  in  other 
places.  Ifsmall  towns  are  arbitrarily  put  with  large  towns, 
they  will  have  no  voice  in  electing  a  Representative.  But  if 
Ihey  are  disposed  to  unite  themseKes,  let  them  do  it,  and  if  not 
let  them  receive  the  right,  as  may  best  subserve  the  convenience 
Or  wishes  ol  either,  and  the  difiiculfy  will  be  removed.  In  ori 
der  to  make  the  scheme  less  objectionable  than  it  now  is,  I  will 
suggest  an  amendment  by  which  that  part  of  the  section  will 
read;  **  and  any  two  or  more  towns  or  plantations  not  having 
1500  inhabitants  each,  but  where  the  inhalitarits  together  shall 
amount  to  that  number,  which  may  voluntarily  unite  from  year 
to  year  for  that  purpose, shall  be  entitled  to  one  Representative.*^' 

Mr.  Baldwin  was  disposed,  if   the  majority  wished    for  dis- 
tn(  ts,  that  they  should  be  gratified,  but  the  report  was  a  linsey 
woUey  texture  and  neither  one  thing  nor  another. 
Judge  Dana.     Mr.  President — I  am  opposed  to  the  amend- 


140 

ment  offered  by  the  gentleman  from  B.  and  prefer  the  article  as 
reported  ;  not.  Sir,  because  I  belonged  to  the  commiliee  that 
reported  it  ;  but  because  the  reported  articles  better  secure 
the  equal  rights  of  all  the  citizens  residing  in  towns  and  planta- 
tions, which  must  be  classed,  in  order  to  be  represented.  The 
amendment  proposes  that  towns  and  plantati  )n3,  to  elect  a  rep- 
resentative must  all  voluntarily  unite  into  a  class  or  district. 
This,  Sir,  will  put  it  into  the  power  of  any  one  town  or  planta- 
tion, however  inconsiderable  in  a  representative  district,  to  pre- 
vent the  others  from  being  represented  ;  for  instance  in  a  class 
of  half  a  dozen  towns  and  plantations,  any  one  of  this  m  contain- 
ing ten  families,  refusing  to  bej  classed  may  defeat  all  the  others 
of  the  important  right  of  representation.  We  are  told,  Sir,  by 
the  mover,  that  when  a  large  and  small  town  are  classed  togeth- 
er without  their  consent,  that  the  small  one  will  invariably  be 
defeated  of  electing  (heir  Rt-presentatjve  and  that  the  large  town 
wTll  uniformly  succeed  in  electing  ^/icr*  candidate.  This,  Sir, 
is  not  according  to  facts  ;  and  experience  shews,  there  always 
were  in  all  towns  a  variety  of  interests— .and  we  n.ay  reasona- 
bly conclude,  that  there  always  will  6c  a  diversity  of  interests  in 
every  town,  either  political,  personal,  religious,  or  local.  The 
Sfnall  towns  might,  and  probably  would  av^il  themselves  of  this 
difference  of  opinion,  and  unite  wiUi  the  minority  iu  the  larcje 
towns,  and  decide  the  election  in  their  own  favour.  The  small 
towns  will  be  apprised  of  this  advantage  and  will  be  disposed 
to  improve  it,  and  in  this  way  will  secuie,  at  least,  their  full 
weight  and  influence  in  the  election  of  Representatives. — Again, 
Sir,  this  amendment  propose.'^,  that  the  Representative  should  be 
chi>^en  by  rotation  in  each  tovvn  and  planUnon  contained  in  the 
class.  This  would  operate  unequally  and  unjustly — a  small 
town  of  twenty  souls,  would  have  i(s  representative  as  often  as 
one  with  a  thousand,  this  could  neither  tie  juit  or  equal,  nor 
sanctioned  by  M\y  correct  priiciple.  Besides,  Sir,  in  this  way, 
you  destroy  an  iaportant  right — You  disfranchise  the  election 
distncl — You  say  to  the  electors  you  may  chiose  a  Represtmta- 
tive,  but  it  must  not  be  a  free  choice^  he  must  live  neither  in  this 
place  or  that  ;  bul  in  another — and  how  ofien  will  it  happen, 
that  in  such  a  class,  there  will  be  some  men  of  stronger  claims 
and  superior  abilities — who  would  unite  the  suffrages  of  all  the 
electors  ?  And  yet  they  could  not  be  permitted  to  choose  him  ; 
but  must  be  deprived  of  a  representaii'-e  or  compH.ned  to  vole  for 
a  mati  obnoxious  to  nine  (enlhsof  the  electors  ;  betore  we  adopt 


141 

a  principle  of  ibis  kind  into  our  Constitution,  before  we  thus  iu- 
Tringe  the  right  ol  j^uffrage,  and  mulilale,  if  not  destroy  the  elec- 
tive franchise;  t^efore,  I  say,  we  engraft  into  our  Constitution 
a  priiicif>le  fiought  with  so  many  evils  and  inconveniences,  I 
trust  we  shall  exan^ne  and  consider,  and  the  result  will  be,that 
we  reject  the  proposed  amendment.  1  presume.  Sir,  the  power 
of  classing  the  towns  will  he  exercised  by  the  Legislature  in  a 
discreet  and  judicious  iinanner,and  am  therefore  of  opinion  it  had 
letter  he  left  with  them. 

Dr.  Phelps  proposed  an  amendment  a  little  varied  from  the 
one  under  consideration. 

Mr  Neal,  of  Madison,  said  the  gentleman  from  Augusta  took 
up  the  county  of  York,  to  shew  the  equal  operation  of  the 
scheme  proposed  by  the  committee.  In  ihatcounly,  (said  Mr. 
N.)  every  town  letains  its  corporate  rights  and  is  fairly  and 
equaliy  represented.  1  >\ish,  Sir,  he  had  turned  his  attention 
to  the  towns  in  the  interior  counties,  and  looked  at  the  i'lcon- 
venience  they  will  suffer  by  this  mode  of  classing.  The  distiict 
in  which  1  live  has  an  extent  of  seventy  five  n;iles  and  includes 
Madison,  Solon,  Bingham,  Moscow  and  Northhill.  Our  town 
oflkers  must  repair  ten  or  twelve  miles  to  see  if  there  is  a  choice 
of  a  Representative.  This  is  a  great  burden  and  inconvenience 
to  towns  thus  situated.  Canaan,  Warsaw,  Palmyra,  8t.  Albans 
and  Corinna  con. pose  another  district,  the  extent  of  which  is 
ihiHy  miles  ;  and  Canaan  has  been  heretofore  entitled  to  a  Rep- 
rest  ntative  alone.  Sir,  shall  the  rich  man  have  his  corporate 
ri^-hts  preserved  and  the  poor  man  be  subjected  to  this  mon- 
strous inconvenience  ?  The  whole  Stale  by  this  aietbod  will 
completely  run  into  classes,  and  v\hy  should  we  impose  this 
partial  burthen  upon  those  least  able  to  bear  it  F  1  hope,  Sir,  it 
will  not  [)e  adopied. 

Mr.  Holmes.  Mr.  President — I  am  not  disposed  to  adhere 
to  a  provision  meiely  because  it  was  reported  by  the  commit- 
tee—  1  tiust  the  report  will  and  ought  to  be  amended.  It  is  ap- 
prehended that  the  rights  of  the  j  eople  in  the  small  towns  will 
be  impaired.  1  hope  v^e  shall  be  able  to  cure  the  evil  of  which 
the  gentUnnan  so  justly  com})lains  and  which  will  expire  with 
the  first  Legislature.  1  should  be  willing  to  leave  it  to  the  first 
Legislature  to  regulate  the  representation  of  these  towns.  There 
would  be  an  equal  difficulty  in  classing  small  towns.  The  most 
populous  would  have  the  power  of  selecting  the  candidate.  On 
the  other  band,  shgultj  the  QUoice  b^  in  each  town  in  the  class 


142 

in  rotation,  the  larp;eor  populous,  would  not  have  equal  rigkts 
with  the  small.  To  remedy  this  inconvenience,  if  it  can  be 
remedied,  1  would  suggest  an  amendment  that  the  representa- 
tive shall  not  be  selected  from  the  same  town  or  plantation  in 
any  class  for  more  than  two  terms  in  succession. 

Mr.  Vance  was  satisfied  with  the  report.  In  the  new  coun- 
ties (said  he)  the  small  towns  will  have  an  advantage  they  never 
had  before,  and  with  this  they  must  take  the  disadvantages. 
The  district  in  which  I  live,  in  the  county  of  Washington,  is 
fifty -one  miles  in  extent,  yet  we  are  perfectly  satisfied.  We 
are  sensible  we  cannot  have  the  right  of  being  represented  with- 
out its  inconveniences.  There  is  not  one  district  in  the  State 
so  large,  or  which  will  increase  so  fast,  and  we  have  now  from 
twenty-one  to  twenty  three  hundred  inhabitants.  Yet  we  are 
satisfied  and  united  throughout  the  county,  and  we  had  rather 
the  number  should  be  increased  (o  three  thousand.  I  hope,  Sir, 
the  motion  will  not  prevail. 

Mr.  Herrick's  amendment  did  not  obtain. 

Judge  Bridge  observed,  that  perhaps  no  better  evidence 
could  be  had  of  the  iropres.*ion  which  the  plan  had  made,  than 
the  representations  ot  the  delegates  from  the  towns  to  be  class- 
ed ;  and  suggested  that  if  they  could  meet  and  agree  upon  a 
Bnede  which  would  be  satisfactory  and  accommodate  them,  it 
would  be  best  to  adopt  it. 

Mr.  Neal  (of  E.)  hoped  the  report  would  pass,  as  he  had  no 
doubt  it  was  the  best  plan  that  could  be  adopted. 

Mr.  \\  hitman  said  he  should  prefer  the  scheme  which  he  had 
the  honor  to  submit  for  consideration  yesterday  ;  as  thereby  an 
equality  of  representation  would,  to  the  utmost  practicable  de- 
gree, be  secured — but  he  had  seen  that  it  would  not  be  ac- 
cepted by  the  Convention.  The  idea  of  districting,  by  class- 
ing the  towns,  seems  to  be  extremely  odious  to  many.  Yet, 
though  we  are  not  about  to  do  it  generally,  we  are  adopting  it 
partially;  and,  I  suppose,  this  will  finally  be  considered  as 
adopting  about  a  fair  medium  between  the  extremes  of  opinion 
in  relation  to  this  subject.  We  shall  secure  the  representation 
by  towns  in  part.  This  is  certainly  a  mongrel  system.  But  I 
rejoice  to  see  districting  even  partially  adopted.  In  this  way 
the  people  will  find,  by  experience,  that  it  will  be  best  to  adopt 
it  generally  ;  and  may  have  the  representation  reduced,  or  the 
constitution  altered  for  that  purpose. 

The  gentlemen  from  small  towns  complain  much  of  being. 


143 

'Aggrieved  by  this  regulation — their  (owns  are  obliged  to  be 
classed  ;  while  the  large  towns  are  not.  I  have  heard  from 
them  no  complaint  that  the  large  towns  are  injured — that  they 
are  to  be  deprived  of  the  right  of  equal  representation — a  right 
which  ihe  God  of  nature  designed  them.  This  is  a  grievance 
which  the  small  towns  do  not  feel.  And  it  is  an  old  saying, 
and  a  true  one,  that  **  We  can  bear  other  people's  misfortunes 
better  than  our  own."  The  small  towns  cannot  endure  the 
little  inconveniences  resulting  from  a  classification — but  they 
can  concur,  without  any  sensibility  upon  the  subject,  in  de- 
priving the  large  towns  of  their  equal  rights. 

It  is  said  that  the  joining  the  large  and  small  towns  in  the 
same  district  will  enable  the  larger  of  the  two  to  exercise  the 
whole  power. — But  in  practice  it  will  not,  I  am  confident,  be 
found  to  be  the  case.  There  are  always  divisions  originating 
in  party  spirit,  or  in  the  attachment  to  individual,  or  from  lo- 
cal considerations,  which  will  enable  the  small  towns,  by  a  kind 
of  bargain  with  a  minority  in  the  large  town?,  to  secure,  at 
leaj^t,  a  proporiional  share  of  mfluence.  If  the  town  of  Port- 
land were  united  with  Cape  Elizabeth,  such  are  and  ever  will 
be  the  divisions,  of  one  kind  or  other,  existing  in  this  town,  that 
Cape  Elizabeth  would  always  be  enabled  to  have  its  influence. 

In  ^\eTy  proposition  that  can  be  made,  in  relation  lo  a  |iub- 
lic  measure,  a  possible  case  may  be  supposed,  and  may  even 
be  made  to  seem  to  be  a  probable  case,  in  which  the  measure 
will  operate  inconveniently.  We  not  unfrequently,  in  s^uch 
cases,  frighten  ourselves  with  bugbears  and  spectres  out  of  the 
adoption  o{  the  most  valuable  propositions.  Experience  has, 
in  millions  of  instances,  proved  the  miserable  fallacy  of  our 
political  vjsicns.  I  do  helieve  that  none  of  the  predicted  evils 
would  result  fiorn  a  general  classification. 

Judge  Thacher  could  not  see  the  justice  of  the  rerr.arks  of 
the  gentleman  trom  Augusta,  relative  to  classing  cf  small  towns. 
The  Constitution,  said  Ihe  Judge,  gives  a  right  to  those  who 
befure  had  not  the  right  to  send  a  representative.  Now  if  we 
have  so  much  alarm  and  difficulty,  in  classing  two  or  lliree  small 
towns  which  had  no  right,  we  ought  to  be  sati'fied  what  would 
be  thft  effect  of  classing  towns  svhich  had  a  right,  and  tbvt  a  gen- 
eral distiicting  system  could  tiever  be  carried  into  efff^cf. 

Dr.  Rose  said,  it  was  rmt  the  towns  which  had  not  heretofore 
been  represented,  but  those  which  had  had  the  rij^h'  t.f  sending 
a  representative,  which  complain.  There  are  many  such  towns 


144 

in  difterent  parts  of  the  State.  We  ought,  Sir,  to  take  the  facta 
as  they  are,  and  so  far  as  I  am  acquainted,  the  t^act  is  otherwise 
than  has  been  stated.  If  you  allow  towns  voluntarily  to  come 
together,  you  get  over  difficulties,  which  if  they  are,  compelled 
to  unite,  will  be  the  cause  of  infinite  mischief. 

Judge  Thacher  said,  he  sometimes  was  almost  led  to  believe, 
that  objections  were  put  into  the  mouths  of  the  people  ;  and 
they  were  represented  here  as  saying,  what  they  nfver  thought 
of,  much  less  would  eventually  say,  on  reading  the  Constitution 
Ihat  vvill  be  rent  out  for  their  consideration.  The  Conveation 
are  now  endeavoring  to  devise  an  equal  system  of  representa- 
tion ;  and  it  being  thought  expedient  to  prefer  t©wn  represen- 
tation, as  far  as  it  can  be  without  doing  general  injustice,  it 
leaves  a  number  of  small  towns  and  plantations,  that  have  not 
individually  inhabitants  enough,  that  is,  fifteen  hundred,  to  en- 
title them  each  to  a  representative.  What  then  shall  be  done  ? 
They  must  be  classed,  or  not  represented.  Classing  two  or 
more  to  make  up  the  number  of  fifteen  hundred  inhabitants  in- 
to an  imperfect  corporation,  merely  for  the  purpose  of  investing 
them  with  the  right  to  elect  a  representative,  cannot  be  a  sub- 
ject of  complaint.  This  is  not  taking  away  a  right  they  before 
were  entitled  to:  we  are  about  giving  them  a  new  right.  He 
said  he  did  not  understand  the  objection  was  made  by  the  towns 
that  heretofore  sent  one,  but  not  having  fifteen  hundred  inhab- 
itants now,  will  not  be  entitled  to  ^end  a  fe{)resen!ative  under 
the  new  State  ;  for  these  seemed  willing  that  fifteen  hundred 
inhabitants,  instead  of  one  hundred  and  fifty  qualified  voters, , 
should  be  the  standard  to  entitle  a  town  to  an  entire  representa-.^ 
tion.  When  the  slill  smaller  towns  and  plantations  see  what  a  ; 
sacrifice  the  larger  ones  make,  he  thought  it  was  doing  their  feel- 
ings and  good  sense  injustice,  to  suppose  they  would  object  to  a  . 
classification.  And  especially  as  this  classing  arrangement  is  on-» 
Jy  to  continue  till  the  small  towns  and  plantations  shall  success-  - 
ively  contain  the  number  of  fifteen  hundred  inhabitants.  When 
that  becomes  a  fact,  they  will  each  take  the  rank  of  a  town. 
He  seemed  to  doubt  the  exaggerated  representations  that  had 
been  made  by  some  of  the  members  of  the  Convention,  as  to 
the  angry,  quarrelsome  disposition  of  the  people  of  the  small 
towns  and  plantations  adjoming  one  another.  He  felt  very  con- 
fident they  were  misrepresented  ;  and  had  no  doubt,  but  when 
they  were  UK-de  acquainted  with  the  principles  adopted  by  the 
Convention  and  the  motives  they  acted  upon,  they  would  cheer- 


145 

fully  receive  and  enjoy  the  benefit  intended  them  ;  and  mee 
regularly  according  to  the  mode  prescribed  to  elect  their  rep- 
resentative, and  that  there  would  be  peace  and  harmony  among 
them  all. 

Mr.  Holme?  said,  as  there  was  not  so  much  peace  and  har- 
mony produced  by  his  motion  as  he  aniicipated,  he  would  beg 
leave  to  withdraw  it. 

Motion  withdrawn. 

Mr.  Hobbs,  of  Waterborough,  said,  he  hoped  that  politics 
would  never  be  in  fashion  again,  but  we  do  not  know  what  the 
Legislature  might  do,  if  they  have  the  power  ;  and  to  prevent 
€v?fs  which  might  otherwise  arise,  would  Mfjove  to  insert  "  and 
plantations,^^  after  *"  ^ota^ns/'  (which  were  not  in  the  report.) 

Mr.  Holmes  moved  that  it  should  be  so  amended  as  to  read, 
*'  such  plantations  as  are  duly  organized  by  law  ;" — which 
amendment  was  adopted. 

After  some  further  conversation  relative  to  classing  towns, 
Mr.  Abbot,  of  Castine,  moved  after  the  word  apportionment,  to 
strike  out  *'  it  shall  contain  that  number,"  and  to  insert  "  the 
Hou^e  of  Representatives  shall  contain  two  hundred  members." 

This  amendment  passed. 

Mr.  Emery,  ot  Portland,  moved  to  amend  the  third  section  by 
striking  out  the  word  "  three,"  and  inserting  ''  five,"  so  as  to 
give  towns  which  have  7600  inhabitants,  the  right  to  e\ec\Jive 
representatives.  We  have  undoubtedly  felt  very  much  alive  to 
the  representations  of  the  plantations  and  towns  which  have 
been  clashed.  But,  Sir,  the  voice  of  ihe  people  throughout  the 
cotmtry  has  been,  that  the  representation  sJiall  be  lessened  ; 
when  they  think  they  shall  be  relieved  from  the  burthen  of  a 
large  representation.  I  ask  whether  the  demand  shall  be  com- 
plied with  ?  If  they  have  not  a  sufficient  answer  that  we  must 
yield  something — we  have  relinquished  prejudices  of  forty 
ytars  standing,  that  the  towns  should  be  obliged  to  support'; 
given  negroes  a  right  we  deny  students  at  college. 

This  being  approbated,  will  th^y  not  say  we  have  no  objec* 
tion  to  the  concession  you  have  made  in  classing  the  sniall 
lowns  ?  But  how  came  you  to  yield  to  large  towns  the  right  to 
send  five  representatives  ?  They  live  near  together  ;  we  may 
say  it  was  population,  not  territory  that  was  to  he  represented. 
There  was  not  to  be  a  reduction  without  a  sacrifice.  True  we 
live  in  the  country,  but  are  we  not  the  strength  and  vigor  ?  Do 
we  lot  find  the  power  of  enlisting  prejudices  ?  Do  you  not  find 
13 


146 

that  when  It  is  necessary  to  carry  any  measures  into  effect, 
you  have  recourse  to  the  country  ?  It  is  not  from  fear  of  the 
influence  of  towns  but  that  they  want  to  get  nnere  power.  Is 
it  not  right  that  they  should  concede  to  an  equal  number  the 
right  they  enjoy  ?  If  it  is  equality,  which  is  the  only  principle — 
is  it  not  right  for  them  to  yield  to  the  large  towns  what  has 
been  yielded  to  others? — Motion  lost. 

Mr.  Parsons  (of  E.)  moved  to  insert  at  the  end  of  this  section 
**  and  any  two  towns  having  a  sufficient  number  of  inhabitants 
to  elect  one  Representative,  shall  be  joined  together  with  the 
privilege  of  electing  a  Representative  alternately;  beginning 
with  ihe  oldest  town  or  by  an  agreement  of  both  towns  may 
jointly  elect  one  annually." 

Judge  Dana.  Mr.  President — I  believe  the  people  are  more 
likely  to  do  right  when  left  to  themselves,  than  when  they  are 
shackled.  If  you  say  the  towns  shall  choose  from  a  particu- 
lar town,  you  take  a  right  from  them  and  compel  them  to  choose 
a  man  whom  they  would  not  have  chosen  and  destroy  the  right 
of  election.  They  will  best  regulate  themselves,  and  I  hope 
we  shall  leave  it  in  that  manner. 

Dr.  Rose  was  in  favor  of  leaving  it  to  the  towns  to  exercise 
the  right  if  they  pleased  and  to  increase  the  ratio. 

The  amendment  was  negatived  135  to  27. 

Mr.  Locke  said,  we  hear  complaints  from  towns  which  had 
the  right  to  send  one  Representative,  and  also  from  Portland 
and  other  large  towns  Sir,  I  am  contented  to  bear  my  portion 
of  the  inconvenience,  and  hope  others  will  feel  the  same  dispo- 
sition. Let  them  remember  that  "  united  we  stand,  divided 
we  fall.''  For  my  part  I  hope.  Sir,  the  report  will  be  accept- 
ed, yea,  that  it  will  be  accepted  unanimously. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  adopiing  the  3d  section  as 
amended  and  decided  in  the  affirmative,  203  rising  in  favor, 
and  41  against  it. 

Section  4th  was  takeu  up. 

A  motion  was  made  to  amend  this  section  in  such  a  manner 
as  to  require  a  years  residence  of  the  representative  in  the  town 
or  class  tor  which  he  is  elected.     This  motion  was  lost. 

All  amendment  was  made,  on  motion  of  Mr.  Holmes,  which 
requires  the  person  elected  **  to  have  been  a  citizen  of  the  U- 
nited  States  for  five  years." 

Mr.  Locke  moved  an  amendment,  to  strike  out  '•  one"  and 
insert  '*^re,"  so  as  to  require  the  age  of  the  representative  to 
he  twenty  Jive. 


147 

Judge  Thacher  said  he  approved  of  the  motion  of  his  friend 
from  Chesterville.  It  always  appeared  to  him  very  proper  that 
before  a  person  is  called  upon  lo  perform  important  hu?iness  of 
any  kind  he  should  have  allowed  him  time  and  opportunity  to 
qualify  himself  for  the  station.  This  was  tbe  common  dictate 
of  the  most  common  sense.  And  in  the  most  common  arts  of 
life  the  practice  is  almost  universally  adopied.  Who  undertake 
to  practice  physic  or  Surgery  without  a  regular  course  of  stu* 
dies,  and  as  often  as  possible,  making  a  visitation  lo  foreign 
countries  lo  observe  the  course  of  practice  in  great  hospitals 
where  they  can  see  the  greatest  variety  of  diseases  and  the 
modes  of  cure  ?  Do  we  not  see  institutions  for  theology,  and 
academies  for  the  studyof  elementary  science  ? — Does  a  man 
undertake  to  teach  a  common  school  till  he  has  been  to  school 
himself?  The  carpenter,  the  smith  and  the  shoe-maker  go 
through  a  regular  apprenticeship.  But  the  Legislator,  combin- 
ing ail  other  arts  and  sciences,  is  to  be  considered  as  self-taught. 
The  mere  lawyer  spends  his  four  years  at  college,  and  then 
three  more  in  a  cnunseilor's  office  before  he  is  considered  quaU 
ificd  to  manage  causes  at  an  inferior  court.  Of  all  the  arts  in 
civilized  society  none  is  of  so  much  importance  as  that  of  mak- 
ing laws  for  a  nation  ;  none  requires  a  more  extensive  know- 
ledge of  particular  objects  or  a  greater  power  ofjcombination— 
When  and  how  then  is  a  boy  just  from  under  family  govern- 
ment, with  his  freedom  suit,  slitfas  buckram  on  his  back,  to  ac- 
quire this  vastly  extensive  knowledge  of  legislation  ?  They 
ought  to  have  some  acquaintance  with  mankind  and  the  ordina- 
ry manner  of  doing  business  in  town  affairs.  He  did  not  like 
to  see  a  legisialure  fiiied  with  young  men — and  men  of  ho  ex- 
perience. There  would  be  no  want  of  men  over  ihe  age  of 
twenty  five  and  short  of  the  age  of  imbecility  through  years  or 
bodily  infirmity,  to  fill  the  future  legislatures  of  the  state. 

He  thought  there  was  a- fitness  in  the  nature  of  things  for  a 
young  person  be  he  ever  so  active,  or  ever  so  great  a  scholar  to 
have  some  experience  and  an  opportunity  to  acquire  it,  and  not 
the  moment  he  arrives  at  the  age  of  twenty  one  be  introduced 
into  the  great  council  of  the  nation.  And  by  adopting  the  a- 
mendment,  he  thought,  it  would  be  received  as  a  consiitut tonal 
expression  of  the  people  ihdii  such  was  their  reasonable  expecta- 
tions. 

Judge  Parria  was  decidedly  opposed  to  the  amendment.  I 
do  not  (said  he)  apprehend  any  danger  from    admitting   young 


148 

men  into  the  legislature.  The  people  will  sufficiently  di?crini- 
iiiate  and  will  no  doubt  decide  conectly  wh<'are  suitable  per- 
sons to  represent  th<  m.  Whr-n  young  iHfn  have  been  brought 
forwcird  into  the  It gislature,  it  has  been  f .  r  their  merit.  1  h^ve 
been  in  the  senate-  of  Massachusetts  and  1  have  seen  a  man 
there  less  than  twenty  five  years  of  age,  the  most  active  nian  at 
thai  board.  Instead  o»  l)eirig  brougl)l  too  S(n»n  into  public  lift', 
young  men  have  been  kept  down  merely  htcau'^e  they  were 
young  men.  If  they  are  young  men  of  genius,  tliey  ought  to  be 
encouraged.  It  is  a  narrow  policy  to  exclude  'hem.  I  j^ee  no 
danger  whatever  in  trusting  the  people.  They  will  decide 
correctly  in  this  particular.  But  what  is  the  danger  ?  that 
young  n)en  will  be  kept  down  and  cramped.  Sir,  I  am  for  in- 
couraging  them  and  bringing  them  early  intopubbc  life,  and 
letting  them  go  through  a  state  of  probation.  I  know  a  man  ia 
the  largest  State  not  twenty  one,  w  ho  is  a  most  prominent  mem- 
ber. 

Jiid^ie  Cony.  I  hope,  Sir,  the  motion  will  be  sustained.  It 
is  not  a  new  principle  to  require  a  certain  age  before  admitting 
nien  to  public  stations.  An  amendment  which  requires  a  rep- 
resentative to  be  twenty  five  years  old,  has  my  entire  appro- 
bation ;  and  1  hope  no  one  will  be  allowed  a  seat  in  the  senate 
until  he  is  thirty  year?  of  age.  1  believe  it  will  best  accord  with 
the  public  wishes.  Very  few  will  be  excluded,  because  fevir 
under  that  age  will  be  cantlidales  for  that  office.  If,  Sir,  it 
Te(|uires  several  years  to  quality  a  man  for  a  profession,  it  must 
surely  require  as  much  to  initiate  him  into  the  difficult  science 
of  government. 

Mr.  Holmes.  Mr.  President — T  remember  to  have  heard 
that  when  a  certain  member  of  Congress  wa?  aiked  by  the 
speaker,  if  he  was  qfmge,  his  reply  was  "  ask  my  constituents 
that  question." 

I  iee  no  reason,  Sir,  why  we  should  not  trust  the  people  to 
elect,  if  thev  would,  a  youth  of  twenty  one.  Where  is  the 
danger  ?  There  are,  to  be  sure,  two  periods  of  a  m?n's  i  fe  in 
which  he  is  not  fi^  to  be  entrus  ed  with  legislation,  two  peri- 
ods of  infancy — a  first  and  second  childhood.  Why  should  we 
limit  the  people  as  to  one  o<  these  and  not  the  other?  If  there 
is  any  period  of  a  man's  life  in  which  he  is  virtuous,  it  is  bis 
youlh.  He  is  not,  then,  taught  in  the  intrigues  and  vices  of  the 
world.  His  passions  are  warm  and  generous,  his  affections  pure 
and  his  honour  unsulbed  It  is  in  this  period  that  you  may  ex- 
pect disinterested  friendship  and  ardent  patriotism* 


149 

But  if  man  in  passing  through  a  world  of  wickedness  cloestifit  . 
become  contaminated  by  examples,  he  nevertheless  brings  with 
him  habits  and  prejudices  which  are  too  often  most  powerful 
and  pernicious,  after  the  reasoning  faculties  are  decayed.  It  is 
however,  with  much  pleasure,  that  I  yield  that  the  venerable 
gentlemen  who  supported  this  amendment  are  honourable  ex- 
ceptions. They  bear  testimony  that  wisdom  is  sometimes  unit- 
ed with  experience  and  virtue  at  an  advanced  age.  But  these 
gentlemen  should  be  aware  that  their  cases  are  more  impressive 
for  being  singular. 

Sir,  I  would  infinitely  prefer  excluding  batchelors  I  consid- 
er a  batchelor  as  rather  a  useless  animal.  Dr.  Franklin  com- 
pared him  to  the  odd  half  of  a  pair  scissors.  Were  we  to  ex- 
clude men  from  public  employment,  until  they  were  married, 
the  provision  would  be  politic,  aed  the  constitution  would  be 
popular. 

But,  Sir,  I  never  would  discourage  our  young  men  from  am 
early  attention  to  the  duties  of  the  offices  of  state.  The  people 
will  never  elect  them  when  young,  until  they  discover  that 
they  are  preeminently  q'jaiified.  [t  is  not  in  the  immber  of  years 
that  wisdom  consists.  The  young  miy  be  worthy,  and  the  old 
depraved.  *'  For  wisdom  is  the  gray  hairs  of  a  man  and  an 
unspotted  life  is  old  age." 

Mr.  Locke  said  he  had  seen  difficulty  in  towns  from  elecfing 
young  men  into  office,  but  wis  not  disposed  to  press  the  sulrject 
and  would  wkhdra^iu  the  motion. 

Mr.  Baldwin  sai4  he  did  not  rise  for  the  sake  of  popularity, 
but  from  a  sense  of  duty.  He  hoped  no  person  wouM  think  he 
had  an  antipathy  or  prepossession  against  the  youth  of  the  Slate 
merely  on  account  of  tjeir  youth,  as  no  one  more  strongly  felt 
the  tender  endeiri.jg  ties  of  parental  affection,  having  a  large 
family  himseU,  who  he  hoped  would  becoine  useful  members  of 
ctjurcb  and  State  ;  but  he  hoppd  they  would  be  too  uiodest  to 
accepi  aseU  m  the  legislature  at  the  age  of  twenty  one.  What! 
(interrogated  Mr  B)  are  we  under  the  necessity  of  confiding 
ttieaifairo  ofour  new  State  to  beard'ess  boys— before  they  hive 
any  knowledge  of  the  world  or  real  acquaintance  with  man- 
kind ?  it  was  urged  that  the  instances  wouM  he  rare  and  their 
constituents  the  besi  judges  of  their  quaiiacations.  But  if  one 
was  ad.niiied,  so  might  any  member  ;  and  he  appealed  to  the 
h.»n.  gentle.n^;n  ot  the  Convention  if  they  would  tru.t  their  prop- 
^ny  on  m^  ucem  wiinout  an  experienced  pilot?   And,  s-^id  he, 


150 

does  sound  policy  dictate,  that  the  citizens  of  Maine  should  put 
their  political  interests  afloat  and  confide  Iheai  to  our  youth  who 
have  just  JeA  the  cradle  ?  The  aiaxim  of  the  wise  man  is  very 
apposite  on  this  occasion,  **  with  the  aged  is  wisdom  ;  and  in 
the  length  of  days  understanding."  Mr.  B.  concluded  by  re- 
newing the  motion  which  had  been  wi'hdrawn. 

Mr.  Vance  said  the  argument  of  the  gentleman  went  to  de« 
prive  the  public  of  the  benefit  of  the  genius  and  talents  of  the 
country.  What,  he  asked,  would  Washington  have  been,  if 
young  men  had  been  exiled  from  public  stations.  His  great- 
ness was  predicted  at  an  early  period  of  his  life.  He  also  al- 
luded to  the  case  of  the  younger  Pitt,  who  at  the  age  of  twenty 
one  swayed  the  councils  of  Great  Britain,  with  distinguished  a- 
biJiJy. 

The  motion  was  negatived,  144  to  46. 

Mr.  Virgin,  of  Rumford,  moved  an  amendment  which  should 
make  a  residence  of  three  months  prior  to  his  election,  in  the 
tovvn  or  class  for  which  he  is  elected,  a  necessary  qualification 
of  a  representative  ;  which  was  adopted. 

Section  4  then  passed  as  amended. 

Section  5,  underwent  some  slight  amendments. 

Dr.  Rose  moved  to  insert  **  electing*^  in  the  proviso^  at  the 
end  of  the  section,  which  would  enable  the  legislature  to  alter 
the  mode  of  electing  representatives  in  classes  : — which  was  a- 
dupted  without  debate. 

Mr.  Holmes  said,  the  amendment  would  alter  the  whole  sys- 
tem and  give  the  legislature  the  power  to  alter  the  mode  of 
electing,  as  to  time,  notice,  &c.  and  moved  a  reconsideration. 

Judge  Bridge  approved  the  object  but  thought  it  had  better 
be  d(  ae  by  introducing  a  provision  to  enable  towns  and  plan- 
tations to  meet  togf?ther  or  otherwise  if  more  convenient. 

Judge  Dana  hoped  the  vole  would  be  reconsidered. 

Mr.  Shepley  thought  it  would  not  do  to  make  the  provision 
required,  since  the  meetings  for  the  choice  of  governor  and  sen- 
ators was  to  be  held  on  the  same  day. 

The  vote  to  adopt  the  amendment  was  reconsidered. 

Mr.  Rice,  of  VViscasset,  proposed  to  obviate  the  difficulty  by 
auihorizii  g.the  legislature  to  enab'e  the  luhabiu  n  s  of  towns 
and  p'anialions  in  the  several  classes  to  meet  In  one  town  or 
pjjntation  on  the  applscation  ofall  the  towns  and  plantations 
within  the  class  to  vote  tor  governor  4"C.  but  no  vote  was  takep.. 

Section  5,  then  passed  as  amended  nearly  unanimously*. 


151 

The  remaining  sections,  6th,  7th  and  8th  passed  without  di- 
fision. 

ARTICLE  W.'-Part  Second.    Senate. 

AFTERJVOOJV.-^Judge  Cony,  moved  to  amend  the  first 
section  so  that  it  should  begin,  •*  The  Senate  shall  consist  of 
thirty-two  members,"  at  which  number  he  wished  the  Senate 
permanently  established.  The  provision  of  the  Constitution  of 
Massachusetts  fixing  the  number  of  Senators  at  forty,  was  pre- 
dicated on  the  supposition  that  nine  members  should  be  elected 
from  that  body,  to  constitute  the  Council,  which  would  leave 
the  number  of  thirty-one  in  the  Senate.  And  from  thirty-one 
to  thirty  three  or  four,  was  the  number  of  members,  which  for 
many  years,  transacted  the  business  in  the  Senate  of  Massachu- 
setts. This  was  considered  a  suitabie  number  for  the  whole 
State  ;  and,  continued  the  Judge,  it  may  be  so  considered  in 
this  State.  The  additional  expence  is  too  inconsiderable  to 
weigh  any  thing  in  this  question.  This  number  would  be  more 
likely,  coming  from  the  different  parts  of  the  State,  to  under- 
stand their  interests.  It  would  be  easy  to  alter  the  apportion- 
ment to  correspond  to  this  alteratio»  of  their  number.  The 
Judge  said,  he  should  wish  the  term  of  their  service  to  be  two 
years,  but  would  not  insist  on  the  question  being  taken  at  the 
same  time. 

Gea,  Wingate  observed,  that  if  the  senate  was  to  be  appor- 
tioned by  this  number,  it  could  not  be  equally  apportioned 
among  ihe  counties. 

Mr.  Holmea.  There  is  the  same  reason  that  the  members 
of  the  senate  should  gradually  increase  as  that  the  house  of  re- 
presentatives should  be  progressive.  The  present  number  is 
not  now  tooimall,  but  it  may  be  so  when  the  country  is  much 
increased.  1  think  twenty  three  is  the  best  number  to  begin 
with,  and  it  may  hereafter  be  necessary  to  increase  it  to  thirty 
one,  or  mnre.  There  are  only  two  states  in  the  Union  which 
have  permanently  fixed  the  numberof  their  senate. 

Gen.  Chandler  said,  Ihat  the  subject  was  very  fully  discussed 
in  the  committee — the  result  was,  that  a  majority  considered 
twenty  three  was  the  most  proper  number.  He  ihought  any 
alteration  would  derange  the  whole  system,  as  a  proportion  was 
intended  to  be  preserved  between  the  house  and  Ihe  senate. 

Ju(Jge  Thacher  said,  he  knew  no  data  by  which  it  could  be 
proved  or  inferred  that  any  particular  number  was  ih^l  number 
nbicb  ought  to  be  preferred  to  some  other  number.     The  same 


152 

qncstion  about  numbers  had  been  debated  in  fixing  the  bouse  of 
represenlatives.  He  thought  be  had  shewn  it  was  arbitrary  ; 
and  might  vary  considerably,  without  any  specific  injury 
arising  from  it  to  the  community— But  there  was  one  fact  that 
ought  not  to  be  lost  sight  of,  for  it  seemed  to  be  in  the  mouth  of 
every  member  of  the  Conventton,  when  they  first  came  together, 
and  that  was,  let  there  be  a  smxH  house  of  representatives  and 
senate  compared  to  the  legislature  of  Massachusetts — and  the 
members  might  pitch  arbitrary  or  diflferent  numbers,  and  talk 
about  their  respective  preferableness  as  lung  as  they  pfeased, 
after  all  they  must  come  back  to  experience  as  the  best  touch- 
stone to  test  their  arguments — and,  tor  his  part,  his  fears  were 
that,  notwithstanding  the  general  voice  of  the  people  was  in  favor 
of  a  small  number,  the  Convention  would  finally  (iiL  on  too  large 
a  one — he  wished  gentlemen  to  look  over  the  constitution?,  and 
see  what  other  slates  had  done  on  this  particular  subject — the 
United  States  commenced  operations  with  a  senate  of  raly 
twenty  six  members  ;  with  a  capacity  of  increase  of  twotnem- 
bers  hy  the  accession  of  every  new  State  to  the  Union.  One 
would  suppose,  if  twenty  six  senators  were  adequate  to  the 
functions  of  a  senate  for  the  whole  nation,  that  thirty  two  would 
be  too  large  for.a  thirteenth  part  of  the  nation.  By  the  theory 
of  the  senate  of  Massachusetts,  the  senate  might  consist  of  no 
more  than  thirty  one  senators — and  when  party  spirit  had  occa- 
sioned it  to  rise  to  forty  or  near  that  number,  it  was  looked  , 
upon  rather  a  grievance  than  a  blessing.  He  added,  that  a 
survey  of  the'  constitutions  of  the  New  England  States,  and  ^ 
some  of  them  had  been  recently  revise^l,  would  lead  to  a  con-  ' 
elusion  against  the  number  proposed*  New  Hampshire  had  but  ' 
thirteen  members  in  their  senate  ;  Kbode- Island,  if  he  was  not 
mistaken,  had  but  ten  or  eleven  ,*  Connecticut  twelve — a?  to  . 
Vermont,  be  knew  but  little  about  their  government,  or  its  ad- 
minislr-ition,  but  he  thought  those  he  ha  t  mentioned  ought  to 
weigh  in  f^vor  of  the  smallest  nnmter,  as  he  had  never  heard 
that  any  of  those  Stales  co(n{)lained  that  their  senates  were  too 
small.  He  would  only  say,  be  was  just  intoriiied  thit  the  senate' 
of  New-York  was  composed  of  but  twenty  four  freeholders — a 
Stale  that  now  contains  nearly  one  million  of  people,  and  proba- 
bly would  increase  equal  to  any  stale  in  the  Union.  He  could 
see  no  reason  why  thirty  two  should  be  preferred  to  twenty 
two  or  three,  with  'vhich  he  >hould  be  ^atisfi.  d — but  he  would 
rather  dimim.'jh  thai  number  than  inctease  it-the  senators  are  not 


153 

considered  as  the  iminediate  representatives  of  the  people  ;  but 
the  house  of  represeiiiatives  ;  and  they  were  fully  numerous 
tnou^^h  to  take  care  of  ali  local  interests.  The  senate  is  rather 
a  compact  body  of  wiadoin  and  reason,  mi  of  passion  and  feeh 
ings,  as  some  hold  out  the  house  to  be—  but  such  was  uot  his 
creed — nothing  would  be  more  unjust  than  to  take  from  one 
part  of  the  people  the  ri^ht  to  an  equal  voice  in  the  house,  and 
then  compel  iheui  to  pay  an  equal  part  of  the  expence.  He  ob- 
served, that  a  good  deal  had  been  said  on  one  side  and  on  the 
other  about  the  exptnce — but  this  made  no  part  of  his  objec- 
lion,  provided  it  could  be  clearly  made  to  appear  that  thirty 
two  members  would  be  better  tnan  twenty  two  or  three.  Our 
resources  are  ample,  and  will  always  be  found  sufficient  for  all 
the  purposes  of  government  without  any  oppression  or  incon- 
venience to  the  people.  Yet  if  we  can,  as  well  as  not,  save 
the  expense  of  a  single  member,  though  it  be  but  litlle,  he  wish- 
ed it  to  be  done. 

The  motion  was  lost,  and  the  section  passed  without  amend- 
ment. 

On  the  second  section  being  read,  Mr.  Holmes  observed,  that 
the  question  had  been  put,  whether  the  committee  took  into 
coiisideration  the  basis  of  the  senate  ?  and  why  they  preferred 
population  rather  than  property?  The  answer  to  the  first  question 
is  tiiat  n'e  djd.  The  answer  to  the  other  is  equally  concise — 
the  reason  why  we  established  it  upon  population  was,  because 
we  saw  no  good  reason  to  do  it  otherwise. 

Mr.  Holmes  then  moved,  an  amendment  of  this  section,  by 
striking  out  the  words  '*  one  'ior  every  increase  of  eight  members'* 
and  inserlmg  **  until  they  shall  amount  to  thirty  one  according  to 
the  increase^^  in  the  house  of  representives — which  was  accepted. 

Mr  Dr-arborn  moved  to  strike  out  the  word  '*  three''  and 
insert  "/our,"  that  the  Senate  might  consist  of  twenty  four, 
in  order,  as  he  stated,  that  an  additional  Senator  might  be 
allowed  to  the  county  of  Kennebeck. 

Mr.  Holmes  explained  the  reasons  which  induced  the  com- 
mittee to  apportion  the  senators  according  to  the  report.  He 
said,  it  was  impossible  to  prevent  fractions — that  there  was 
indeed  a  large  fraction,  (according  to  their  estimate  of  about 
5000)  in  Kennebeck  ;  but  there  was  also  a  fraction  of  about  the 
same  amount  the  other  way,  in  the  county  of  Somerset,  and 
that  Kennebeck  had  a  fraction  over  its  representation. 

Mr.  Dearborn,  said  what  was  given  to  Somersett,  did  uot 


154 

help  Kennebeck — and  th^t  York  was  fully  represented  in  (he 
senate  and  house.  Mr.  D.  could  not  understand  what  there  wag 
in  the  population,  soil,  or  atmosphere  of  York,  that  entitled  it 
to  any  preponderance  over  the  other  three  large  counlies — he 
did  not  wish  it  to  be  winked  out  of  sii^ht,  that  his  object  in  ma- 
king the  motion,  was  to  add  another  senator  to  Kennebeck. 
The  county  of  Kennebeck,  said  Mr.  D.  is.enlilled  n»ost  assured- 
ly to  as  many  senritor?  as  York,  whether  we  predicated  the 
representation  in  the  senate  upon  population  or  properly  ;  we 
have  already  (he  observed,)  witnessed  an  unequal  distri).tution 
of  Representatives  in  one  branch  of  the  legislature,  and  hoped 
we  should  at  least  guard  the  other  : — while  the  committee  were 
satisfied  with  carving  and  dissecting  the  county  of  Kennebtck 
and  coupling  and  clas.^i  'g  its  towns,  n(»t  a  single  town  in  York  is 
classed  with  another — and  how  was  this  accomplished  without 
a  dereliction  from  the  principles  of  the  report?  He  called  on  the 
chairman  to  answer,  whether  Newfield,  Cornish,  or  Alfred,  con- 
tained fifteen  hundred  inhabitants,  or  within  three  hundred  of 
that  number?  and  if  not,  why  spread  that  sunshine  of  favor 
over  Yo.k,  by  sfivmg  them  each  a  representative?  He  hoped 
the  Convention  would  lake  this  subject  into  serious  considera- 
tion. 

Mr.  Holmes  made  some  further  rem'^rks  in  explanation. 

Gen.  Chandler  s^id,  in  the  committee  it  was  decided  by  a 
majority,  that  the  grand  divisions  of  the  state  should  be  regar- 
ded in  apportioning  the  representation — that  the  representatives 
sb'iuld  first  be  apportioned  on  the  counties,  and  that  the  senators 
sh  >uld  cilso  be  app:)rtioned  to  the  counties,  and  for  this  purpose 
a  subcommittee  was  apj)ointed  to  apportion  them.  If  their 
calculation  was  correct  he  could  see  no  sood  reason  for  an  al- 
teration, though  a  very  equal  apjjortionment  could  not  be  made 
and  preserve  county  lines. 

Mr.  Dearborn  said,  there  was  no  county  which  had  so  large 
a  fraction  as  Kennebeck,  and  called  on  the  committee  for  furth- 
er information  on  the  subj  xt. 

Mr  Deane  said,  the  senate  was  apportioned  as  equally  as  it 
could  be  and  preserve  county  lines.  The  committee  he  said, 
took  into  consideration  taxes,  population,  polls,  fyc.  The  only 
question  which  was  made  with  us  was  whether  we  should 
place  Kennebeck  and  Somerset  together,  or  not. 

The  motion  was  negatived,  and  the  Section  passed  as  amen- 
ded. 


155 

Mr.  Dadrborn  gave  notice  that,  on  Monday  next,  he  should 
move  for  a  reconsideration  of  the  vote  adopting  the  2d  and  3d 
sections  of  article  4tb,  relating  to  representation. 

Sections  3d,  4th  and  5th,  passed  without  amendment  or  dis- 
cussion. 

Mr  Holmes  moved  to  Insert,  in  the  6th  section,  the  provi- 
sion that  Senators  shall  be  twenty-five  years  of  age.  which  was 
adopted,  and  the  section  as  amended,  passed  ;  and  also  sections 
7  and  8, 

ARTICLE  IV Part  Third.     Legislative  Powers. 

Six  sections  passed  with  a  slight  amendment  of  the  2d. 

Mr.  Holmes  moved  to  strike  out  the  latter  part  of  section  7, 
with  a  view  of  leaving  it  to  the  discretion  of  the  Legislature,  to 
establish  the  mode  of  compensating  the  members  ©f  the  Legis- 
lature. 

Rev.  Mr.  Hooper  wished  to  have  the  pay  established  by  the 
Constitution.  He  said,  we  were  now  setting  out  in  the  world, 
and  it  was  necessary  to  practise  economy,  and  thought  it  best 
to  fix  the  pay  of  the  first  Governor,  the  Senators  and  Represen- 
tatives. He  would  fix  their  pay  at  the  same  it  had  been  here- 
tofore. It  would  give  satisfaction  to  have  it  done,  for  it  had  been 
held  out  to  the  people,  that  the  expenses  of  the  Government 
would  be  lessened. 

Mr  Holmes.  I  hope  we  shall  not  have  any  blemish  of  this 
kind  in  our  Constitution.  Forty  years'  experience,  in  Massa- 
chusetts, has  proved  that  there  is  no  risk  in  trusting  the  Legisla- 
ture to  establish  their  own  compensation.  Can  we  with  saiety 
fix  the  compensation  of  any  of  the  officers  of  the  government  in 
the  Constitution  ?  What  is  an  adequate  sum  to  day,  may  be 
too  much  or  too  little  to-morrow.  ThH5  is  the  business  of  legis- 
lation, and  it  may  be  more  safely  trusted  to  the  representatives, 
who  expecting  to  be  re-elected,  will  take  care  not  to  offend  their 
constituents.  Experience  has  lately  proved,  that  such  offences 
are  not  easily  pardoned. 

Mr.  Emery.  1  am  opposed  to  striking  out  part  of  this  .section, 
I  believe  it  does  not  prescribe  any  thing  unreasonable.  The  ex- 
penses of  travelling  to  and  from  the  LegisUture,  ou^ht  to  be 
paid  out  of  the  public  chest.  I  do  not  kuow  but  the  committee 
have  instructed  the  chairman  to  make  this  motion.  But  I  am 
better  satisfied  with  it,  as  it  is,  than  to  have  it  withdrawn.  I  can 
see  no  reason  for  the  alteration.  Is  it  unreasonable  that  the 
members  of  the  House    of  Representatives,,  who  shall  sea?ona- 


156 

bly  attend  a  session  of  the  Legislature,  and  do  not  depart  there 
from  without  leave,  should  have  their  expenses  in  travelling 
thereto  and  from,  once  in  a  session,  paid  by  the  State  out  of  the 
public  Treasury  ?  Does  this  section  contain  any  thing  more 
than  this,  even  by  implication  ?  I  really  can  see  no  ambiguity  ; 
I  can  see  nothing  unreasonat>le  or  objectionable. 

Gen.  Chandler  said,  the  gentleman  from  Portland  must  be 
mistaken  in  his  suggestion.  He  presumed  it  was  not  a  propo- 
sition of  the  Committee.  The  object  was  to  leave  it  for  the  Le- 
gislature to  settle  the  mode  of  compensation  of  the  members. 

Judge  Thacher.  I  am  always  sorry  to  observe  a  jealousy 
of  the  Legislature.  I  have  no  such  jealousy.  We  are  entrusted 
to  make  laws  for  the  latest  generation.  The  two  branches  of 
Legislature,  will  hav»  all  legislative  power,  excepting  where  re- 
strained, and  I  think  we  had  better  leave  it  wholly  with  them. 

Col.  Moody  hoped  Mr.  Holmes'  amendment  would  not  take 
place.  It  might  deter  some  towns  from  sending  representatives 
which  would  send  if  they  could  have  their  travel  paid  at  the 
public  expense.  The  Legislature  should  be  convened  at  the  ex- 
pense of  the  State.  Is  there,  he  asked,  any  thing  unfair  in  this  ? 
The  Legislature  should  fix  the  pay,  but  not  say  how  it  shall  be 
had.  If  it  was  a  wise  provision  to  convene  the  Legislature  in 
Massachusetts  at  the  expense  of  the  State,  why  should  we  alter 
it? 

Mr.  Holmes.  We  agree  is  our  object.  My  object  is,  that  at 
all  events,  the  members  of  the  House  shall  be  paid  for  their  trav- 
el out  of  the  public  chest  ;  and  not  to  say  they  shall  be  thus 
paid  for  their  attendance.  To  remove  the  objections,  anu  to 
satisfy  this  Convention  that  1  do  mean  the  members  shall  be 
paid  for  their  travel  out  of  the  treasury,  I  will  vary  the  motion, 
so  as  to  leave  it  to  the  Legislature  to  settle  the  mode  of  paying 
for  their  attendance. 

Mr.  Wallingford  wished  to  have  the  mode  of  payment  fixed, 
anS  to  have  it  tajjen  out  of  the  State  Treasury  ;  and  hoped  the 
payment  for  their  attendance  would  be  left  to  the  Legislature. 

SATURDAY,   OCT.    23. 

The  committee  which  was  appointed  to  report  what  Acta,  Re- 
solves, and  other  Documents,    it    might  be  necessary  to  obtain 
from  the  office  of  the  Secretary  of  the  State,  and  of  the  Uifited 
States,  reported  a  resolve,  i^bicb  was  ordered  to  lie  en  the  ta 
ble  until  Monday  next. 


157 

The  consideration  of  the  motion  to  strike  out  that  part  ci' 
Section  7,  Art.  4,  part  3d.  relating  to  payment  ot"  Repiesenta- 
tives,  was  resumed. 

Judge  Dana — Mr.  President,  I  hope,   Sir,   tlie  motion  olthe 
honorable  gentleman  from    Alfred,    to  strike  out  a  part,  and  I 
conceive,  an  important  part  of  this  section,  will  not  prevail  :   if 
no  alteration  has   taken    place,    in  the  number  and   manner  of 
choosing  representatives  (in  my  absence  from  the  convention,) 
I  am  satisfied  thai  their  travelling  expenses  should  be  paid  fiom 
the  Treasury  otlhe  State  ;  and  their  attendance  from  the  towns 
or  districts  they  represent      That  their  travel  should  be  so  paid 
is  just  and  equal  ;  otherwise  a  tov^n  or  district,  di'.tant  from  the 
seat  of  government,  must  pay  the  travel  of  their  members  all  that 
distance,  vvhiie  those  near,    will  incurno  expense  of  that  kind. 
To  me  therefore  it  is  manifestly  right,  that  the  expf  n-es  of  trav- 
elling, of  all  the  representatives  -hould  be  equalized  upon,  and 
borne  by,  the  whole  state.       If  this  is  not  the  case,  small  towns 
and  districts,  and  those  at  a  distance,  will  be  deterred  fr(»m  sen- 
ding   representatives,    on  account  of  the    travelling   expt'nses ; 
and  there  may  be  a  difficulty   in  proportioning  these  expenses 
or)    the   towns    and   plantations  composing  a  dj«:lrict  ;    but    I 
am     by     no   means     prepared     to   say    that   their    attendance 
should  be  paivi  from  the  public  chest.    If  their  number  was  suffi- 
ciently diminished   it  might  be  proper  to  pay  their  attendance, 
as  well  as  travel,  from  the  funds  of  the  Slate  ;   but  vvhiie  we  in- 
dulge the  sma//  toii'ns  and  plantaii(m<  with  the   [/rivtlege  of  sen- 
ding representatives,  by  diminishing  the  representatii  n  o(  large 
ones^.  would  it  be  right  to  compel  ihe  latter  to  pay  for  this  iovlul- 
gence  given  to  theybrmer  ?     Nothing  could  be  more  unjust  and 
unequal.    The  maxim,  "  that  taxation  and  representation  should 
go  together,"  is  a  wise  one,  growing  out  of  experience,  and  foun- 
ded in  the  nature  of  things,   and  a  departure  from  this  salutary 
and   antient  rule,    has  always  created   inquietude  and  di-order, 
and  sometimes   the    most    fatal    consequences — we    therefore 
(  ught  cautiously  to  adhere  to  it.      If  we  pay  tlie  altendar.ce,  as 
well  as  travel   from  the  treasury,   the  result  will  inevitably  be, 
that  tovTns  and  districts  will  swell  the  number  of  their  represen- 
tatives to  the  extent,  which  will  make  an  un«'Ieldly,  and  I  may 
add,  unsafe  representation  ;  and  create  an  unnecessary  and  an 
enormous  expence  to  the  state ;  and  what  is  much  to  be  regret- 
ted, 'hose  towns  most  curtailed  in  their  representation,  will  be 
mostseverehj  taxed,  to  defray  this  needless  and  unequal  expense  ; 
14 


158 

whereas  if  each  town  and  district,  were  to  pay  the  attendance 
of  tlieir  own  representatives  it  would  be  a  salutarj  check  upon 
thorn,  and  keep  our  representation  within  suitable  bounds. 
While  therefore,  Sir,  I  would  pay  the  travelling  expenses  of  all 
the  representatives  from  the  State  treasury,  I  would  require  of 
towns  and  districts  to  pay  the  attendance  of  their  own  members. 

Mr.  Baldwin  said,  it  was  generally  considered  a  grievance 
lor  the  towns  to  pay  their  representatives  for  their  attendance, 
and  he  thought  they  ought  to  be  pjfid  out  of  the  public  treasury. 

Mr.  Heirick,  of  B.  moved,  after  the  words  "the  senators 
and  representatives  shall  receive^'  to  insert  ''  out  of  the  treasury 
of  the  Slate''''  such  compensation,  kc.  and  to  erase  the  last  sen- 
tence of  the  section. 

Mr.  Herrick  observed,  that  clamorous  as  he  had  bee»  on  the 
subject  of  representation,  and  unsuccessful  as  he  had  been  in 
his  efforts  to  get  amendments  introduced,  which  would,  in  his 
opinion,  make  the  system  better  comport  with  the  true  interests 
of  the  people  ;  he  didnot  despair  of  obtaining  an  amendment  in 
this  part,  which  would  remedy  in  a  great  measure,  the  imper- 
fections of  the  other. 

1  am,  he  observed,  in  favor  of  making  a  permanent  provision 
in  the  constitution,  tor  the  payment  of  the  whole  expense  of 
representation  out  of  the  publick  treasury,  and  will  offer  my 
reasons  : — The  first  is,  the  very  laconic  one  offered  yesterday  by 
the  gentleman  from  Alfred,  for  apportioning  the  senators  accord- 
m^  to  the  population — '*  that  there  is  no  good  reason  why  it 
should  be  otherwise."  A  wrong  impression  seems  to  be  made 
on  the  minds  of  gentlemen,  that  the  services  of  a  representative 
are  to  be  confined  to  his  own  particular  constituents,  that  his  eye 
must  be  single  to  the  inierests  of  his  own  town,  regardless  of  ev- 
ery other  consideration.  But,  sir,  the  representative  of  a  town 
is  as  much  the  servant  of  the  whole  state,  as  the  Governor  is. 
if  he  is  a  part  of  the  whole,  why  should  not  the  whole  pay  him? 
It  is  objected  that  this  mode  does  injustice  to  the  large  towns, 
because  they  pay  heavy  taxes  in  proportion  to  their  representa- 
tion;  that  the  town  of  Portland,  for  instance,  pays  one  third  of 
the  taxes  of  the  county  of  Cumberland,  while  she  obtains  but 
one  eighth  of  the  representation.  1  cannot  very  Indistinctly  see 
the  foice  of  the  objection.  How  happens  it,  sir,  that  Portland 
is  thus  oppressed  with  taxes  P  it  is  the  consequence  of  her  great 
wealth.  It  is  a  maxim  with  me,  that  a  government,  jhich  pro- 
tides  well  for  the  poor,  is  good  enough  for  the  rich.     The  m.ode 


159 

ofpayingthe  expense  of  representation  out  of  the  treasury  ol 
(he  State,  is  the  practical  effect  of  the  maxim.  It  is  putting  the 
burden  where  it  should  be — on  the  shoulders  of  the  strong. 

The  inequality  of  representation  complained  of,  results  from 
the  necessity  of  the  case,  if  each  town  must  pay  its  own  rep- 
resentatives, it  may  fairly  be  inferred  that  each  town  has  a  rig,ht 
to  decide,  as  a  corporate  body,  whether  it  will  elect  a  repre- 
sentative or  not.  How  then,  sir,  are  you  assured  that  a  provi- 
sion in  another  part  of  your  constitution  will  be  carried  into  ef- 
fect, that  the  house  of  representatives  shall  consist  of  at  least  one 
hundred  members  ?  So  many  towns,  to  avoid  the  expense,  may 
vote  not  to  elect,  that  that  number  may  not  be  elected.  In  an- 
other part  of  your  constitution,  you  have  provided  that  the  Leg- 
islature may  compel  absent  members  to  attend  the  Legislature. 
By  what  means,  sir,  will  you  compel  the  attendance  of  mem- 
bers, who  have  never  been  elected  ?  How  will  you  avoid  con- 
fusion in  your  classes,  as  you  are  pleased  to  call  them  ?  Seve- 
ral towns  composing  one  class,  have  their  meeting  at  thesam^ 
time  ;  one  tovvn  votes  not  to  elect,  because  it  sees  no  prospect  of 
deriving  advantages  enough  from  representation,  to  pay  the  ex- 
pense. Another  town  votes  to  elect,  and  casts  its  voles  ;  a  rep- 
resentative  is  elected  of  course,  and  who  pays  the  ex[)enses.^ 
Divest  yonr  ctinstilulion,  sir,  of  its  inconsistencies,  before  you 
oiler  it  to  the  people  for  adoption.  Let  us  for  a  moment,  con- 
sider the  consequences  of  the  old  system  of  Massachu-etts  ;  that 
a  town  may  decide  whether  it  will  elect  a  representative  or  not 
— whether  disgraceful  riots  have  not  grovvn  out  of  it,  besides 
olher  mi=ch:ct>.  Great  towns  are  always  wealthy  ;  and  will  al- 
most always  exercise  their  full  right  of  representation,  because 
the  "  burden  is  light*'  on  (hem,  and  they  generally  have  an  im- 
portant point  to  carry  ;  while  the  poor  and  unambitious  town 
in  the  country,  not  considering  that  the  whole  is  interested  in 
every  measure  of  the  Legislature,  goes  into  the  inquiry,  wheth- 
er any  business  will  probably  come  before  the  Legislature joar- 
iicularly  interesting  to  that  town  :  except  in  times  of  great  par- 
ty excitement,  the  question  is  pietty  generally  decided  in  the 
negative,  and  no  representative  U  elected.  Several  towns  in 
the  same  vicinity,  make  the  same  decision,  and  the  voice  of  a 
great  section  of  the  State  is  not  heard  in  the  legislature.  This 
is  an  evil,  sir,  but  if  it  were  the  only  one  resulting  from  the  sys- 
tem, it  would  be  more  tolerable.  Mr.  H.  here  alluded  to  the 
evil  consequences  of  the  system  heretofore  practised.     And  ic- 


160 

w^arked,  that  we  ougbt  to  guard  against  the  recurrence  of  such 
evils.  We  have  very  carefully  guarded  against  some,  which 
never  did,  and  probably  never  would  occur.  Is  it  not  more  im- 
pcrtant  to  guard  agamst  those  which  have  occurred,  and  which 
}olilical  jugglers  may  cause  again  to  recur  ? 

Let  me  admonish  you  then,  sir,  as  you  value  the  tranquillity 
and  happiness  of  the  community  ;  as  you  would  establish  for 
the  people  of  your  State,  a  governmerft  of  laws  and  not  of  men  : 
stop  up  every  avenue  by  which  the  influence  of  faction  may  as- 
tail  your  councils. 

Mr.  Holmes  said  it  always  gave  him  pleasure  to  hear  the  gen- 
tleman from  Bowdoinham,  because  he  never  spoke  unless  he 
had  something  to  say,  and  always  left  off  when  he  had  done. 
His  object,  he  said,  was  precisely  ihat  of  the  gentleman.  1 
wish  to  take  the  sense  of  the  Convention,  as  to  the  manner  of 
^iaying  the  members.  In  my  opinion  they  should  be  paid 
iVom  the  public  chest,  and  that  this  is  the  only  correct  way. 
1  am  opposedlo  having  unnecessary  discretion  confined  to  tii« 
legislature. 

Judge  Thacher.— He  thought  the  variety  of  opinions  rose 
from  the  inequality  of  representation  ;  or  rather  from  the  une- 
qual mode  of  elections.  If  the  mode  of  election  were  more 
equal,  that  is,  if  the  division  of  the  towns  was  as  equal  as  the 
appropriation  of  Representatives  is  upon  the  several  counties, 
he  should  be  in  favor  of  paying  the  members  of  the  legislature 
©ut  of  the  public  treasury.  But  until  this  should  be  the  case  by 
an  alteration  in  the  mode  of  election  by  towns,  it  would  be  wrong 
to  pay  the  representatives  out  of  the  treasury.  Upon  thisprin 
ciple  every  small  to\An,  and  «very  class  of  planlalions  would 
most  punclually  send  a  representative,  because  the  expense 
would  be  equally  borne  by  the  large  towns.  B/ddeford  has 
just  or  near  1500  ir^.habitauts,  while  Saco  has  nearly  double  that 
number  ;  and  why  should  the  latter  pay  part  of  the  representa- 
tive of  the  former?  But  this  flows  from  the  svstem  of  election 
by  towns.  Let  the  ruode  of  election  be  as  equal  as  the  repre- 
sentation on  counties,  and  there  will  be  no  disagreement  on 
Ibis  ground.  Nothing  would  be  more  unjust  than  to  take  from 
(me  part  of  the  people  the  right  to  an  equal  voice  in  the  house, 
and  then  compel  them  to  pay  an  equal  part  of  the  expence. 
He  observed  that  some  genlleman  had  complained  of  a  great 
waste  of  time  in  debating  on  this  and  some  other  questions,  be- 
cause it  necessarily  drew  after  it  a  heavy  expense  on  the  peo- 


I6i 

pie  1  To  wliich  be  roust  reply,  Xhzi  he  saw  nothing  like  a  wast« 
of  time — Questions  that  had  thrown  other  communities  and  as- 
semblies into  great  commotion  and  agitation  had  been  here  dis- 
cussed with  uncommon  coohiess  and  harmony  ;  there  had  been 
but  very  little  of  feeling,  except  when  some  topic  of  a  religious 
nature  was  debated,  and  the  devotion  oi  a  tew  seemed  to  kindle 
into  a  fever  pulse.  For  his  part  he  was  pleaded  to  find  ihe  gener- 
al course  of  debate  so  pacific,  and  as  to  the  lime  spent,  it  was 
not  to  be  named.  The  |>eople  expected  the  Convention  would 
examine,  every  subject  brought  before  them,  and  they  knew  it 
must  consume  considerable  time.  As  to  the  pay  of  the  travel 
of  the  representatives  he  was  satisfied  it  ought  to  be  taken  out  of 
the  treasury — he  had  never  heard  that  complained  of  under  the 
forty  years  of  administration  of  our  present  Government.  It 
would  be  very  hard  and  unequal  for  representatives  of  distant 
towns  from  the  seat  of  government  to  travel  two  hundred  miles, 
and  then  for  the  towns  to  pay  for  it,  while  the  represeiUatives  of 
the  towns  round  about  the  seat  of  government  c.^uld  go  home 
once  or  twice  a  week  without  troublie,  and  the  towns  have  littlu 
or  nothing  to  pay.  s 

Judge  Ames  said,  the  question  is  upon  stHkiiig  out  that  part 
of  the  7ih  sedijn,  making  provision  to  pay  the  representatives 
for  their  travel  out  of  the  public  Treasury.  '  o  this  he  was 
opposed — The  honorable  mover  (he  said,)  at  the  time  of  ma- 
king the  motion  yesterday,  assigned  as  a  reason  for  it,  that  the 
legislature  ought  to  have  the  power  of  providing,  that  the  ex- 
pense both  of  the  travel  and  attendance  of  the  representatives 
Bliouid  be  paid  out  of  the  public  Treasury,  or  by  the  several 
towns  and  classes,  as  they  should  deem  most  proper.  In  the 
course  however  of  this  morning's  debate  upon  the  subject,  the 
honorable  gentleman  has  avowed  another  reason  for  his  motion, 
totally  different  from  the  first,  and  now  wishes  to  strike  out  the 
same  part  of  the  section,  that  in  stead  thereof  a  provision  may 
be  inserted  to  pay  the  members  both  for  travel  and  attendance 
out  of  the  public  Treasury — (Mr.  A.  said,)  he  apprehended, 
that  both  these  reasons  on  mature  deliberation,  would  be  found 
to  be  equally  unsound,  and  that  the  section  ought  to  remain 
without  amendment.  In  the  establishment  of  every  good  gov- 
ernment, there  are  certain  great  leading  principles,  founded  in 
the  nature  of  man,  which  must  be  recognized  and  supported, 
as  the  only  snre  basis  of  public  justice  and  individual  protec- 
tion—Such are  the  principles  recognized  in  the  Bill  of  RightSj 
14* 


162 

upon  jour  honor's  table,  and  these  principles  of  right,  which 
no  circumstances  can  change,  must  be  secured  to  the  individ- 
uals associated  under  the  civil  compact,  by  the  provisions  of  the 
constitution,  and  not  left  to  the  uncertainty  and  instability  of 
legislation — From  the  principles,  recognized  in  the  Bill  of 
Rights,  that  all  men  are  by  nature  equally  free  and  independant, 
re'sulis  the  right  of  equal  representation  under  the  constitution, 
we  are  now  forming.  This  right  therefore,  with  equal  privi- 
leges attending  it,  should  be  secured  by  the  constitution.  But 
would  the  system  of  representation  in  this  constitution  be  equal 
in  operation,  and  enjoyed  with  equal  privileges,  should  each 
town  be  obliged  to  pay  the  travel  of  its  own  members  ?  The 
legislature  is  an  aggregate  body,  composed  of  members  from  ev- 
ery part  of  the  territory,  over  which  its  jurisdiction  extends, and 
will  be  convened  in  the  most  central  part  of  that  territory. 
Each  town  or  distiict  is  presumed  to  have  relatively  an  eoual 
portion  of  the  reprtisentation,  and  should  have  it  at  the  same 
relative  expense,  or  otherwise  it  w  ill  not  be  re{)resented  upon 
equal  and  JMsl  principles.  But  for  the  sake  of  elucidation,  sup- 
pose two  towns,  each  entitled  to  one  Representative,  the  one 
being  the  seat  of  government,  and  the  other  placed  at  a  distance 
of  two  hundred  miles  from  it — the  former  would  have  nothing 
t»  pay  for  travel  and  the  latter  forty  dollars.  To  pay  the  rep- 
resentatives for  their  travel  out  of  the  public  treasury  is  there- 
fore a  necessary  part  of  the  system  of  equal  representation,  and 
ought  to  be  among  the  provisions  of  the  constitution.  Thus  (he 
said,)  he  was  irresistibly  brought  to  the  conclusion,  that  the  first 
reason,  assigned  by  the  honorable  mover  for  striking  out,  was 
not  sound  in  principle  ;  and  the  second  would  be  found,  as  he 
apprehended,  equally  unjust  and  fallacious.  It  cannot  (he  said) 
but  be  perceived,  that  the  present  system  of  repiesentalion  is  a 
system  of  compromise,  giving  to  the  small  towns  a  larger  rep- 
resentation in  proportion  to  their  populatioH,  than  to  large 
town?.  Under  these  ciscumstances  il  has  been  thought  by  ma- 
siy,  that  the  Senate  ought  to  have  been  predicated  upon  laxa- 
hon,  and  apportioned  accordingly,  as  in  the  Commonwealth  of 
Massachusetts.  Had  this  been  the  case,  no  reasonable  objection 
could  have  been  offered  to  paying  all  the  members  of  the  legis- 
iature  for  their  attendance  out  of  the  public  treasury,  notwith- 
standing tiie  unequal  operation  of  the  present  sysleni  of  repre- 
sentation. Bui  pre  perty  is  not  represented  in  either  branch  of 
:}ut  legislature,  the  senate  as  well  as  the  house,  being  predicated 


163 

upoD  population.  Is  it  right  then  to  take  from  the  large  towns 
the  privilege  of  being  equally  represented,  and  at  the  same  time 
require  of  them  not  only  to  pay  their  own,  but  the  Representa- 
tive? of  other  towns  ?  Will  not  this  be  the  operation,  should 
the  gentleaian's  motion  prevail  ?  Examine  the  facts*  The  tovirn 
of  Portland  (Mr.  A.  said)  as  he  was  informed,  pays  one  nine- 
teenth of  the  whole  stale  tax  in  Maine,  and,  upon  the  principle 
contended  for,  must  pay  eight  representatives^  and  be  allowed  to 
send  but  three.  This  also  would  be  the  operation  with  all  the 
other  large  towns  in  the  State  ;  and  is  it  possible,  that  this  prin- 
ciple can  ba  advocated  by  fair  minded,  impartial,  honest  men    ? 

I  will  appeal  to  their  consciences,  and  ask  high-minded^ 
honorable  gentlemen  of  this  Convention,  whether  they  are  quite 
ready  to  establish  a  principle,  so  unjust  and  wicked  in  its  oper- 
ation ?  Whether  they  are  so  soon  prepared  to  impress  upon  the 
features  of  this  constitution  the  foul  crime  of  robbery  ?  I  do  not, 
cannot  believe  it. 

Mr.  Holmes — Sir — I  said  nothing  of  a  fear  of  he  people— I 
^id  express  a  fear  of  the  legislature,  but  not  of  the  people. 
There  is  a  difference  in  the  danger  of  trusting  the  legislature 
and  the  people. What  are  we  here  for  but  to  make  this  distinc- 
tion, to  preserve  therights  of  the  people,  and  to  set  landmarks, 
beyond  which  the  legislature  are  not  to  go  ? 

My  object  is  not  to  strike  out^  that  the  towns  should  be  bur- 
dened with  pay  of  the  travel  but  to  try  the  sense  of  the  Con- 
vention whether  they  will  not  put  the  travel  and  attendance  on 
the  same  footing  and  make  it  imperative  q\\  the  legislature  to  pay 
both  out  of  the  public  treasury. 

If  the  representation  is  not  equal  make  it  so — If  it  is  as  equal 
is  it  can  be  under  all  circumstan<ies,  why  i?  it  not  right  that  the 
expense  should  be  paid  out  of  the  general  fund  ?  What  is  the 
object  of  legislation  ?  and  why  should  a  town  worth  five  thou- 
thousand  dollars  pay  as  ?nuch  as  one  worth  twenty  five  thousand 
having  the  same  number  of  inhabitants  ? 

Col.  Moody-  -I  rise,  sir,  to  make  a  remark  in  public  to  the  Hon 
mover  who  has  just  sat  down.  He  says  the  large  towns  ought  to 
make  sacrifices  to  the  small  towns,  because  of  (he  inconveniences 
which  the  small  towns  labor  under;  and  so  I  think  they  ougiit, 
in  respect  to  representation.  But  they  ought  not  to  be  compel- 
led to  make  sacrifices  in  taxes  also — to  give  up  to  (he  sraall 
towns  the  right  to  an  equal  representation,  and  then  to  be  taxed 
for  it.     If  the  attendance  of  the  representatives  were  paid  out 


164 

of  tbe  County  Treasury,  it  would  b«  equal.  Rut  is  it  fair,  is  it 
just,  for  tUe  large  towns  to  make  such  an  enormous  sacrifice  in 
representalives,  and  then  to  tar  Ihem  four  fold  to  pay  them. 

Judge  Parris.  Mr.  President — The  gentlemen  of  this  Conven- 
tion will  observe  I  have  not  been  perfectly  silent  during  this  dis- 
cussion. I  have  regretted  to  see  gentlemen  rising  and  complain- 
ing of  the  inconvenience  of  this  or  that  town  in  the  proposed 
representation.  I  can  sit  no  longer — we  have  a  community  of 
interests — we  have  a  kind  of  partt>ership.  Towns  of  7500  in- 
habitants are  to  be  shorn  of  part  of  their  rights  and  a  town  with 
4500  is  to  have  as  much  power.  Is  there  any  reason  for  taking 
this  equality  of  power  from  an  equal  number  of  people  ?  I  can 
sit  no  longer  and  consent  that  they  should  also  be  (axed  to  pay 
for  it.  If  you  equalize  representation  and  taxation — there 
would  be  a  perfect  equality  in  making  the  towns  pay  equally.  1 
cannot  consent  that  he  small  towns,  &c.  shall  have  an  exclusive 
benefit.  We  must  retrace  our  steps.  Make  the  representation 
equal,  and  I  have  no  objection  to  pay  them  out  of  the  public 
chest.  But  to  compel  the  large  towns  to  submit  to  sacrifices 
and  then  to  compel  them  to  pay  for  this  loss  of  privilege,  I  am 
opposed. 

I  have  always  understood  that  in  tbe  old  constitution  the  pro- 
rision  for  paying  the  travel  out  of  the  public  chest  was  a  com- 
promise between  large  and  small  towns. 

The  President  called  the  attention  of  the  Convention  to  con- 
sider if  it  was  necessary  to  decide  this  question.  It  might  per- 
haps be  better  left  to  the  legislatare  to  settle  it« 

Gen.    Chandler,    was     for    leaving   it   to    the     Legislature. 

Mr.  Herrick  enforced  the  argumtnl  in  support  of  his  motion. 

Judge  Bridge  rofe  to  say,  he  resjretted  that  the  committee 
should  find  it  necessary  to  oppose  the  report.  The  committee 
left  it  where  it  ought  to  be  :  that  the  pay  for  the  travel  should 
be  paid  out  of  the  public  chest,  and  left  the  mode  of  paying  the 
attendance  to  be  settlt  d  by  the  legislature.  He  hoped  the  re- 
port would  be  accepted. 

Ju.'lge  Thacher  made  some  fuilber  illustrations  cf  (he  ine- 
quality of  the  representation. 

Mr.  Whitman.  1  do  not  believe  it  Is  at  all  important  that  i^e 
should  make  any  regulation  of  this  kind.  It  i?  as  certain  as 
any  thing  can  be  that  tbe  repiesentalives  if  they  have  the  {  ower 
will  vole  to  pay  themselves,  wholly  but  of  the  public  chejt.  If 
the  legislative  body  were  properly   coastituted,  and  of  a  com- 


165 

petenl  number  merely  to  transact  the  public  business  to  the  best 
advantage,  there  would  be  every  reason  why  they  should  be  so 
paid.  As  it  is,  it  will  have  every  motive  for  paying  itself 
wholly  out  of  the  public  chest.  The  motive  being  strong,  and 
the  principle,  in  the  abstract,  being  in  favor  of  it,  we  must  be- 
lieve they  will  do  it. 

[  say  the  motives  will  be  powerful  to  induce  them  to  it. 
What  are  these  motives.^  We  are  about  to  say  thit  the  large, 
old  and  more  wealthy  towns  shall  be  deprived  of  no  inconsid- 
erable share  of  their  right  in  comparison  with  the  small  tovvns. 
These  old  towns,  have,  at  the  same  time,  much  more  than  an 
ecjual  proportion  of  the  wealth.  Their  influence  is  to  be  di- 
minished, perhaps,  in  about  the  same  proportion  as  they  arft 
comparatively  wealthier.  In  some  instances  the  di&preporlion 
against  the  large  towns  is  much  greater.  In  this  county  for  in- 
stance the  tovTn  of  Portland  pays  about  one  third  of  the  publfc 
taxes — at  the  same  time  that  it  is  to  have  but  one  eighth  of  the 
weight.  Under  such  circumstances  can  the  representatives 
from  the  small  towns  return  to  their  constituents  and  say  that 
they  have  voted  their  whole  pay  directly  from  their  purses  ; 
when  by  voting  it  out  of  the  public  chest  they  would  pay  but  a 
third  part  or  a  quarter  of  it.  So  it  will  happen  that  Portland 
will  have  but  three  representatives,  and  be,  nevertheless,  com- 
pelled to  pay  for  eight.  The  same  will  be  the  case,  though,  for 
the  present  in  a  loss  degree,  with  all  the  other  old  and  large 
towns.  But  Hallowell  and  Augusta  pay  one  fourth  part  of  the  tax- 
es in  Kennebeck,and  send  but  two  representatives.  Besides  there 
is  to  be  no  check  in  the  Senate.  Were  the  senate  apportioned 
accordin.oj  to  valuation,  a^  heretofore,  that  body  might  have  fur- 
nished a  check.  Cut  as  it  is  there  will  be  neither  check  nor  mo- 
tive to  prevent  the  payment  of  the  whole  expenditure  from 
the  public  chest.  I  desire  it  may  be  distinctly  remembered 
that  I  am  in  favor  of  so  paying  it  if  the  legislature  were 
properly  constituted.  Let  the  representation  be  equal  ;  and  of 
the  suitable  number,  let  them  be  kept  together,  s.nd  be  made  to 
consider  themselves  as  charged  with  the  public  welfare, and  there 
would  be  no  reason  why  they  should  nor  be  so  paid. 

Mr.  Emery.  Mr.  Presidewt,  when  I  look  at  the  preamble  of 
the  constitution  and  see  it  professing  to  establish  justice,  I  feel 
a  pleasing  expectation  that  justice  will  be  contained  in  the  rest 
of  tl^e  constitution. 

I  beheve  we  have  started  with  wrong  principles  as  to  the  ex- 


166 

pfjctation  of  th«  extent  of  the  legi^-lature.  No  one,  six  months 
ago  expected  over  one  hundred  representatives,  and  we  shall 
find  the  number  fixed  on  too  large.  New-York  in  1787  framed 
her  constitution  establishing  one  hundred  representatives,  limit- 
ing the  number  at  three  hundred,  but  the  State  became  dissatis- 
fied with  so  numerous  a  house,  ancl  in  1801  revised  their  consli- 
tution  and  fixed  it  not  to  exceed  one  hundred  and  fifty,  and  find- 
ing the  senate  ofone  hundred  too  large,  fixed  it  at  thirty-three, 
yet  that  state  has  now  more  than  a  million  of  inhabitants.  Why 
then  should  we,  with  a  population  of  less  than  a  third  that  num- 
ber, require  two  hundred  Representatives.  Experience  had 
taught  that  state  that  their  representation  was  cumbrous  and  in- 
convenient, but  no  wish  was  now  felt  to  raise  the  nuwiber  to 
three  hundred  again. 

If  an  equal  number  of  people  elected  an  equal  number  of 
representatives — should  we  have  had  a  question  of  justice  and 
morality  presented  to  us?  The  error  is  in  giving  to  one  part  of 
the  community  the  right  which  is  withheld  from  another  and 
yet  compelling  them  to  pay  for  this  loss  of  privilege. 

I  know  of  the  sufferings  of  the  people  in  new  towns.  I  am 
willing  to  consider  their  sufF^^rings.  But,  Sir,  it  is  not  a  life  of 
suffering.  They  have  much  fertile  soil.  They  get  wealth  and 
comfort  which  will  be  envied  by  the  world.  They  secure 
health,  competence  and  quiet— Can  any  portion  of  the  comjnu- 
nity  secure  more  for  enjoyment  ?  Let  us  see  if  towns  on  the 
sea  shore,  if  fishermen  do  not  sufFf^r.  The  people  nholiveon 
the  Islands  ;  do  they  not  procure  their  snbsii-tance  at  the  hazard 
of  their  lives  ?  do  they  not  have  to  launch  their  boat  in  the  most 
inclement  season  and  go  about  from  place  to  place  to  procure  a 
bushel  of  corn  to  subsist  upon  ?  Is  that  a  hardship  ?  Is  it  a 
hardship  for  the  poor  sailor  to  perform  his  duty  in  all  weathers— 
to  handle  sails,  blow  high  or  blow  low, to  enrirh  his  emjiloyers  ? 
But  they  are  not  entitled  to  vote,  or  to  representation,  which  is 
the  same  ihi'ig.  Yet  they  are  exposed  to  hardships  and  suffer- 
ings, while  the  landsaian  is  secure. 

VVill  the  delegates  say  that  right  or  wrong  they  will  pay 
themselvps  out  of  the  public  chest  and  not  leave  them  a  right  to 
be  heard  ?  I  believe  they  have  more  elevated  views.  If  they 
return  Jiome  and  a  question  is  aeked  them  why  is  thi?  or  that 
provision  in  the  constitution  ?  they  will  say,  I  did  by  my  neigh- 
bors as  I  would  have  others  do  by  myself,  The  straight  forward 
course  of  justice  as  it  is  the  only  proper,  so  in  the  end  it  will  be 


167 

found  the  only  popular  course.  The  provision  has  been  retained 
because  the  good  sense  of  the  commuuity  has  approved  of  it. 

Mr.  Holmes.  It. is  my  wish  that  the  various  interests  of  all 
classes  should  be  consulted.  I  have  wished  the  pay  of  the  mem- 
beis  should  be  in  proportion  to  the  rejtresentation,  I  am  sensible 
this  is  not  so.  I  will  therefore  vary  my  proposal  so  as  to  add, 
at  the  end  of  the  section — *'  and  they  shall  be  paid  for  their  at- 
tendance out  of  the  public  treasury  and  the  expense  thereof 
shall  be  assessed  on  the  inhabitants  of  the  several  counties  ac- 
cording to  thfcir  number  of  Representatives."  I  believe  this  will 
be  upon  principles  of  justice.  Each  county  will  pay  in  pro- 
portion to  its  numbers  and  each  town  will  pay  according  to  its 
representation. 

The  vote  was  then  taken  on  the  motion  of  Mr.  Holmes,  to 
strike  out,  and  it  was  negatived,  38  being  for  and  1S6  against  it. 

Rev,  Mr.  Hooper  moved  to  strike  out  ihe  first  part  of  the  sec- 
tion and  substitute  a  provision  that  the  senators  and  representa- 
tives shall  receive  a  compensation  which  shall  not  be  increased 
or  diminished,  to  take  effect  during  the  term  for  which  they  are 
elected.      iVhich  was  negatived,  without  a  division. 

Judge  Green  moved  to  add  to  the  section,  ^^  But  ihe  atten- 
dance of  the  members  shall  be  paid  by  the  several  towns  and  classes 
in  which  they  shall  have  been  elected.' "^ 

This  motion  was  negatived,  55  to  107. 

The  question  on  the  acceptance  of  Mr.  Herrick's  amendment 
to  insert  the  words,  "  out  of  the  Treasury  of  the  State,"  passed 
in  the  negative,  88  in  favor  and  134  against  it. 

Mr.  Holmes  then  offered  his  amendment  to  assess  it  on  coun- 
ties, which  was  also  negatived,  20  to  147. 

The  seventh  section  now  passed  as  reported  nearly  unani- 
mously. 

Sections  Sth  and  9th  passed  without  discussion. 

Section  10.   Mr.  Hobbs  moved  to  strike  out  iheproviso, 

Mr.  Holmes.  The  proviso  seews  to  be  necessary.  You  are 
to  organize  a  new  government  and  to  this  end  must  create  many 
new  offices.  Your  first  legislature  will  be  extensive  and  as  its 
business  will  be  important,  will  require  most  of  the  talents 
of  the  State.  Were  you  to  exclude  all  these,  it  is  doubt- 
ful where  you  would  find  a  sufficient  number  of  suitable  men  to 
fill  the  offices.  The  people  would  be  exceedingly  embarrassed, 
not  knowing  whom  to  elect  and  whom  to  reserve  for  office. 

The  object  of  the  provision  is  to  prevent   unnecessary  offices 


168 

being  created,  or  salaries  unreasonably  increased  to  satisfy  the 
ambition  or  cupidity  of  those  who  create  or  increase  therei ;  but 
the  reason  will  scarcely  apply  to  the  first  legislature,  and  if  it 
did,  the  circumstances  of  the  state  seem  to  require  the  excep- 
tion. 

The  motion  was  negatived. 

Judge  Thacher  moved  to  strike  out  *' No  member  of  Con* 
gres?,  nor  person  holding  any  office  under  the  United  Slates." 

This  motion  was  lost. 

Mr.  Dane,  of  Wells,  moved  to  insert,  after  *' Justices  of  the 
Peace,"  *'  and  of  the  Sessions,^''  in  order  thatjustices  of  sessions 
should  not  be  excluded  from  the  legislature. 

Mr.  Whitman  doubted  if  this  would  be  a  judicious  amend- 
ment. It  is  important,  said  he,  to  exclude  the  judicial  officers 
from  the  legislature.  They  {should  not  have  it  in  their  power 
to  enlarge  their  own  jurisdiction.  The  Court  of  Sessions  has 
heretofore  had  an  exten«^ive  criminal  jurisdiction.  It  may  be 
expedient  that  they  should  again  have  it.  In  such  case  it  would 
be  improper  for  them  to  be  members  of  the  legislature.  If  it 
were  not  tor  the  sweep  it  would  make,  it  would  be  well  to  ex- 
clude Justices  of  the  Peace.  When  men  go  to  the  legislature, 
if  not  already,  they  soon  become  Justices  of  the  Peace,  and  if 
they  are  all!  Justices  of  Peace,  what  guarantee  shall  we  have, 
that  they  will  not  extend  their  jurisdiction  ?  It  would  be  de- 
sirable, if  it  would  not  exclude  such  a  host,  to  exclude  them.  It 
would  be  better,  if  a  court  were  constituted  in  each  town  who 
should  be  called  the  town  judge,  who  should  have  the  jurisdic- 
tion which  justices  now  have,  in  their  stead,  and  such  judges 
might   be  excluded  from   the  legislature. 

Judge  Thacher  thought  that  from  their  small  number  they 
eould  not  have  much  nor  a  dangeroos  influence  in  the  legislature. 
Executive  and  judicial  officers  ought  generally  to  be  excluded, 
but  it  could  not  be  very  important  to  eitend  it  to  Justices  of  the 
Sessions.     Motion  lost. 

Sections  11  and  12,  the  last  in  this  article,  then  passed  the 
Convention. 

ARTICLE  V. — Part  First — Executive  Power. 

Sections  1  and  2  passed  without  debate. 

Section  3.  Mr.  Russell  moved  to  strike  out  •'  first  Wednes- 
day of  January"  and  insert  '•  October y"*  -which  did  not  pass. 

Sections  4*  5  and  6,  passed  with  some  verbal  amendment, 
^principally  for  tbe  purpose  of  making  them  more  correct  in  style. 


169 

Co?.  Moody  moved  to  strike  "  diminished"  from  the  6tb  sec- 
lion  in  order  to  leave  unrestrained  the  po'.ver  of  diminishing  the 
salary  of  the  governor  during  his  continuance  in  office. 

Mr.  Whitman  objected,  for  the  reason  that  he  considered 
such  a  power  to  be  inconsistent  wiih  a  suitable  independence  of 
th».^  first  magistrate.  The  danger  ot  losing  a  portion  of  his  in- 
come might  induce  him  improperly  to  court  favor,  and  preveet 
him  from  firmly  resisting  corrupii*)n  and  wrong. 

It  was  also  opposed  by  Judge  Thacher,  and  withdrawn. 
Gen.  Chandler  suggested  the    propriety  of  amending  the  7th 
section,  so  as  to  admit  the  right  in  the    commander   in  chief  of 
the  militia,  to  pursue  a  beaten  enemy  over  the  line  of  the   State. 
Mr.  Holmes  said  if  the  alteration  were  made  it  would  be  one 
of  principle,  which  was  tatipu  from  the  old  Provincial  Charters. 
It  would  be  dangerous  to  give  an  executive  officer  the  power  to 
march  troops  out  of  the  State,  without  the  consent  of  the  troops, 
•r  of  the  legislature, which,  if  necessary,  might  be  obtained. 
Section  7,  then  passed  without  amendment. 
The  remaining  sections  9th,  lOih,  llth,12lbaDd  13tb,  passed 
without  debate. 

ARTICLE  V.—Part  Second— -Cowwci/. 
Dr.  Rose  moved  to  strike  out  the  whole  article — be  thcught  a 
council  unnecessary,  and  that  dispensing  with  one  would  be  a 
great  saving  of  expence,  an  expence  without  any  adequate  ad- 
vantage. The  government  of  the  United  States  had  no  establish- 
ed council.  The  President  consults  with  the  heads  of  depart- 
ments, who  are  called  his  cabinet  council ;  and  the  governor 
will  have  his  aids,  adjutant  general  and  other  officers  to  as>ist 
him  in  the  discharge  of  his  duties,  with  whom  he  may  advise. 
The  Executive  of  most  of  the  other  States,  act  without  a  coun- 
cil, and  no  complaint  is  made  of  the  want  of  one.  New  York 
has  one,  which  they  would  be  glad  to  be  rid  of. 

I  believe,  said  Dr.  R  we  can  get  a  Governor  as  capable  of 
doing  the  business  of  the  Executive  alone,  as  other  States.  If 
we  give  him  a  council,  we  not  only  incur  a  useless  expense,  but 
divide  the  responsibility,  and  open  a  door  for  intrigue.  The 
Senators  will  come  from  all  parts  of  the  State  and  will  give 
bim  all  the  information  he  could  obtain  from  a  Council.  And 
besides,  as  has  heretofore  been  the  case,  he  may  have  a  coun- 
cil in  whom  he  has  no  confidence. 

Mr    Holocs  said,  be  thought  it   his  duty   to  d.efend  the  Re- 
port.    In  the  committf-e,  said  he,   I  urged  the  same  arguments 
15 


170 


agamst  a  Council  which  the  gentleman  from  Boothbay  has  of- 
fered, considering  it  a  useless  appendage  to  the  government. 
But  I  received  such  information  from  those  gentlemen  on  the 
Committee  who  ha^e  been  members  of  Council,  that  such  bu- 
siness was  done  by  them,  which  otherwise,  must  be  done  at  a 
much  greater  expense  by  men  with  established  salaries,  that  ! 
was  convinced  it  was  best  to  retain  it.  The  Lieutenant  Gov- 
ernor is  given  up  on  all  bands,  but  I  hope  we  shall  preserve  the 
Council. 

Mr.  Whitman  regretted  that  the  Hon.  gentleman  from  Au- 
gusta, (Judge  Bridge,)  who  was  not  then  in  the  house,  was  ab- 
sent. He  being  at  present  a  member  of  the  Council  of  Massa- 
•huselts,  might  enlighten  us,  as  he  did  the  cornmirtef-,  on  this 
subject.  Having  had  however  a  little  experience  iu  that  body 
myself,  (j-aid  he)  \  will  suggest  a  few  consideraticns  in  favor  of 
it.  Advising  in  relation  to  appointments,  is  but  a  trifling  part, 
eomparatively,  of  their  duly.  To  the  public,  however,  thi?  hag 
*een.ed  to  be  the  sole  object  of  having  such  a  body.  It  should 
be  remembered  that  no  money,  for  any  purpose  whatever,  can 
be  drawn  from  the  Treasury,  but  by  warrant  from  the  Govern- 
or with  advice  of  Council.  Such  a  check  upon  the  issues  from 
the  Treasury,  must  be  lodged  somewhere.  In  the  Treasury  of 
the  United  States,  these  checks  and  safeguards  are  numeicus. 
Whoever  makes  a  claim  upon  that  Treasury,  must  present  the 
evidences  of  his  right  of  claim  to  the  auditor,  who  examhfes  it, 
nnd,  if  deemed  by  him  to  be  just  and  legaK  it  is  next  submit- 
ted to  the  ccn)p*rt;ller.  If  he  should  be  salif-fied  of  its  justice 
also,  he  will  add  bis  certificate  to  that  of  the  auditor,  all  uhich 
must  be  delivered  to  the  Treasurer,  who  causes  a  warrant  to 
be  made  out,  which  being  signed  by  all  those  officers,  and,  fi- 
nally, approved  by  the  Secretary  of  the  Treasury,  will  enable 
the  applicant  to  get  his  money.  VVe  have  niade  provision  for 
none  of  these  saleguards  for  our  Treasury,  The  Governor  and 
Council  have  heretofere  been  found  c(»mpetent  to  the  purpose 
in  this  State,  And  this  is  the  cheapest  eHlal)!ibhn'ent  we  can 
have  lor  such  a  purpose*  Tl»e  Council  have,  constantly,  a  stand- 
injjconmi.ittee  of  their  body,  enfru^^ted  with  this  branch  of  busi- 
jie-is.  Every  application  for  money  (rou)  the  Treasury.  i>  re- 
ferred to  this  Committee,  who  hear  the  applicant,  or  examine 
hi^  documents,  and,  having  accertaijied  the  tacts,  report  them  to 
the  Governor  and  Council,  with  an  ©pinion  as  lo  tbe  juMice  or 
isjjuslice  gf  the  claim*     If  just,  ajjd  the  report  be  accepted,  a 


171 

nairant  issues — otherwise  not.  it  is  manifest  that  the  Gover- 
nor could  not,  alone,  allend  to  all  this  :  afid  1  presunae  we  shall 
not  find  it  for  the  interest  oi'  the  State  to  establish  an  Auditor's 
Office,  with  his  clerks  and  olher  expenses,  in  lieu  oi'a  council, 
which  would  not  cost  a  quarter  pari  as  much.  This  power  over 
the  Treasury  must  be  lodged  somewhere.  It  will  not  do  to  al- 
low the  Treasurer  to  del  ermine  what  claiiii3  ought  to  be  paid, 
and  to  pay  them  at  his  discretion. 

The  power  of  pardoning  offences  also  must  be  lodged  some- 
where.  There  must  be  some  mode  of  investigating  tlie  facts  in 
relation  to  (his  subject.  The  States'  prison  is  full  of  convicts. 
-Applicaiions  are  continually  made  by  them,  or  their  friends* 
To  them  it  will  not  do  to  turn  a  deaf  ear.  Every  claim  of  ibis 
sort  must  undergo  an  investigation.  A  standing  committee  i« 
charged  with  this  branch  of  business ;  their  duties  are  often  la- 
borious. Their  reports  of  facts  and  opinions  are  numerous,  as 
the  records  will  show  ;  for  every  thing  m  council,  must  be  en- 
tered at  large  on  the  records. 

There  is  confided  to  the  Governor  and  Council,  still,  ano?her 
blanch  of  busiues.'j,  which  requires  a  standing  commi  tee.  T-iie 
Governor,  with  ihe  advice  oi  Council,  is  to  organize  tne  militia, 
by  dividing  into  Divisions,  Brigades,  Regiments, 4'c.  The  ap- 
fihcations  for  a  lie  rations,  for  the  formation  of  new  Companies, 
and  Ihe  abolishing  or  consolidating  others,  are  very numerous, 
and  require  much  investigation.  On  (he  whole,  sir,  I  beheve 
there  is  no  olher  body  of  men  vvhalever,  v^ho  have,  undc^r  the 
Constiiution  of  Massa.jjusetts,  performed  so  much  and  so  impor- 
tant service,  at  so  small  an  expense. 

Dr..  Rose  said  he  was  convinced  the  members  of  the  Council 
were  profilably  employed  ;  but  thought  the  Treasury  W3S  in 
no  more  danger  \\i:hout,  than  with  ihem.  It  could  not  be  se- 
cured, unless  the  Treasurer  were  a  res[)onsible  man.  He  kntj  w 
of  no  Oilier  Stale,  winch  had  had  Hs  Treasury  plundr^.ifd,  but 
Massachusetts,  which  is  almost  the  only  o^ie  that  has  a  coun- 
cil 

The  nu.tion  to  strike  out  tlie  Article  was  ne^'-afived. 

-AFTb:KYOO^\—M^.  Lu^^aon,  of  Shapleidi,  moved  to 
amend  die  fiisl  section,  by  sirdiing  out  ''  seven"  and  insertnu' 
*'  five,''  as  the  number  of  wUtch  the  Council  should  consist.     "^ 

Col.  Moody  hoped  the  motion  would  not  prevail.  If,  said 
he,  the  gentleman  would  consider  ihe  extent   of  our  territory 


172 

and  thp  provision  that  no  uiore  than  one  Councillor  can  be  (a* 
ken  (Vom  a  county  ;  that  the  proposed  number  is  smaller  than 
thnt  of  Massachusetts,  and  the  variety  ot  subjects  which  come 
befure  them,  I  ihirik  he  could  not  wish  to  reduce  it.  The  dif- 
ference  of  expense  between  five  and  seven  is  so  trifling,  that  i 
think  no  one  will  vole  for  five  in  preference,  merely  on  that  ac 
count.  And  considering  the  extent  of  the  State,  and  that  in  ad- 
vising the  Executive  in  relation  to  apportionments,  it  might  be 
found  nece  sary  to  have  one  from  the  seven  most  important  di- 
visions <jf  the  State,  1  think  the  alteration  had  better  not  be 
made. 

Mr.  Dickinson,  of  Machias,  thought  that  five  might  give  the 
Governor  all  the  requisite  information  about  candidates  for  of- 
fice,  as  well  as  seven. 

Judge  Bridge  gave  some  additional  information  as  to  1h©  bu- 
siness ot^  the  Council  of  Massachusetts,  to  show  the  policy  of  re- 
taining it.  He  o!)served,  having  had  the  honor  to  be  a  member 
of  that  body,  he  could  say  generally  there  are  no  ofificers  of  the 
government  who  labor  so  hard  fur  so  small  a  com[)ensation. 
There  are,  said  he,  no  less  than  five  standing  committees  in  the 
iDouncil  of  Massachusetts.  The  fust  is  that  of  pardons,  the  ap- 
plications for  which  are  exceedingly  numerous,  not  less  than 
from  fifty  to  a  hundred  being  usually  before  the  committee  un- 
tieciaca  on,  iiport  Vriiivii  Ui^y  iiViiot  C>»»r.«  Ui  •JUij5€r?»»  ufcision* 
There  is  another  coHrjmittee  on  military  affairs,  which  keeps  a 
«iocket,  and  has  as  much  business  as  two  or  ♦.hree  can  attend  to. 
There  is  also  a  committee  on  warrants,  and  a  distinct  commit- 
tee on  county  treasurers' accounts.  There  is  another  on  pen- 
sions, which  we  may  not  want.  But  we  shall  find  seven  too 
small  a  number  to  do  the  busines*'  that  will  come  before  them. 
But  he  had  not  stated  all.  The  Council  is  frequently  called  to- 
gether when  the  Legislature  is  not  in  session  ;  and  it  is  the  gen- 
eral tribunal,  to  which  every  thing  relating  to  government  is  re- 
ferred. 

Mr.  Holmes.  Mr.  President — I  doubt  whether  we  are  not 
dispos^ed  to  be  a  httle  more  prudent  than  is  consistent  with  wis- 
dom. VVe  might,  by  ihis  amendment,  possibly  save  a  hundred 
and  twenty  dollars.  And  even  if  we  can  do  this,  we  should  see 
at  what  expense  we  save  it.  Two  hours  sitting  here,  will  eat 
up  this  expense.  We  are  told,  sir,  that  the  Council  is  divided 
into  conimittees.  Where  are  standing  committees,  of  two  or 
\h\ee  apiece,  to  be  taken  from,  if  the  Council  consists  of  but 


173 

;^ve — and  who  will  advice  the  Governor?  If  their  business Is 
done  by  others,  we  must  have  a  coriiptroller  of  the  treasury,  and 
a  secretary  oi  war,  with  a  salary  of  fifteen  hundred  dollars,  to 
save  one  hundred  and  twenty  Now,  sir,  1  was  opposed  to  a 
Council,  until  I  was  convinced  of  its  utility.  But  if  we  have 
one,  let  ih  have  one  that  is  efficient,  if  we  have  a  stnall  num- 
ber, they  will  be  the  mere  puppets  of  the  Governor,  or  open  to 
intrigue  and  corruption  I  would  bring  to  your  view,  sir,  thins:* 
that  would  convince  you  that  it  will  not  do  to  have  a  Council, 
which  will  a.erely  serve  to  throw  the  responsibility  from  the 
Governor.  Ralher  let  us  have  no  scape  goat  to  carry  off  his  sins. 
The  effect  will  be,  the  Governor  will  say  the  Council  beguiled 
us,  and  we  did  eat.  In  leed,  for  the  reputation  and  benefil  of 
posterity,  I  hope  the  motion  will  not  prevail. 

Dr.  Rose  said  the  arguments  had  convinced  him,  that  it  would 
be  better  to  have  five  than  seven.  How,  he  asked,  can  we 
have  committees  out  of  seven,  more  than  out  of  five  ? 

Mr.  Leighton  said  we  hrive  had  but  two  or  three  of  the  coun- 
cil of  Massachusetts  taken  from  Maine,  and  thought  if  we  now 
had  five,  it  would  be  sufficient. 

Judge  Cony  observed,  that  seven  could  hardly  be  considered 
too  large  a  number,  especially  as  one  or  two  would  usually  be 
absent. 

Gen.  Chandler  said  he  had  been  opposed  to  a  Council,  and 
supposed  all  the  business  might  be  done  by  the  Governor.  But 
•  on  hearing  the  arguments  which  had  been  offered,  and  being  in- 
formed of  the  business  done  by  them,  he  was  convinced  of  its 
utility,  and  his  impression  then  was,  that  it  was  best  to  adhere 
to  the  report. 

Mr.  Whitman  observed,  there  was  one  thing  which  bad  not 
been  mentioned  in  the  remarks  on  this  subject,  which  was,  that 
the  Lieutenant  Governor  of  Massachusetts,  was  a  member  of  the 
Council,  and  performed  bis  duties  with  the  others,  which  made 
the  whole  number  ten. 

The  motion  to  strike  out  sevm,  was  lost,  1 10  to  74  ;  and  sec- 
tion  I  passed,  without  a  dissenting  vote. 

Sec.  2  Mr.  Baldwin  moved  to  amend  this  section,  by  sin- 
king out  the  words  which  vest  the  power  of  electing  Council- 
lors in  the  Legi:.lature,  and  inserting  a  provision  for  their  elec- 
tion by  the  qualified  electors,  4^0.  He  thought  the  Council 
ought  to  be  chosen  by  the  people.  If,  said  Mr.  B.  they  are  cho- 
:ren  by  the  Legislature,  they  will  of  course  all  be  of  the  same 
.15* 


174 

polilical  complexion  as  the  majority  may  happen  to  be.  But  tf 
they  are  electeu  by  the  people,  ihey  may  take  such  men  as  they 
please,  and  they  will  represent  the  diflferent  polilical  views  of 
the  difierenl  parts  ol  the  country. 

Mr.  Shepley  spoke  against  the  motion  ;  and  said  that  if  the 
members  of  the  Council  were  chosen  by  the  people,  it  would 
be  necessary  to  district  the  Stale  anew  for  that  purpose,  and 
that  the  effect  of  it  would  be  to  pn.duce  collisions,  which  it 
is  desirable  as  much  as  possible  lo  avoid. 

Judge  Cony  said,  the  election  of  councillors  by  the  Legisla- 
ture, was  not  depri»ii>g  the  people  of  their  rights*  1  presume, 
said  the  Judge,  the  pe*)pie  expect  to  delegate  some  of  their  pow- 
er to  the  Governnjent  ;  and  would  it  be  for  the  interest  of  the 
peof)le  to  retain  this  power  ?  On  the  contrary,  i:s  exercise 
would  be  found  very  inconvenient  ;  and  none  are  so  well  qual- 
ified to  make  the  selection  as  the  members  of  the  Legislature. 

The  motion  was  lost,  and  the  section  passed  with  a  small  a- 
mendment. 

Sec.  3  Mr.  Whitman  moved  to  insert  the  words  '*  who  agree 
thereto.^'  which  was  agreed  to. 

Judge  Bridge  made  some  explanations  of  the  mode  of  record- 
ing the  proceedings  of  the  Council.  They  are  first  made  oA  a 
kind  of  waste  book,  and  entered  for  every  day  on  the  record^, 
to  which  the  members  sign  their  names.  A  provision  is  made 
ibr  eifher  House  of  the  Legislature  to  call  for  these  records,  so 
that  thc^re  is  a  complete  responsibility  of  the  members  of  ihe 
Council. 

Sec.  4.  Mr  Whitman  moved  to  amend,  by  inserting  after 
**  any  person  holding  any  office,"  the  words  '^in  the  Executive 
department  o/ " — "  the  United  States,"  He  wished  to  keep  up 
a  distinction  between  the  Executive  departments  of  the  two 
irovernments.  He  was  not  for  having  the  exclusion  so  exten- 
sive fts  to  j.'revenl  any  v%ho  hold  offices  under  the  United  Slates^ 
Irom  being  Councillors, 

J  bis  amendment  was  adopted,  and  the  section  passed  as  a- 
mended. 

ARTICLE  v.— Part  Third— Secretary. 
The  four  sections  in  this  Article,  passed  without  amendment 
•r  debate. 

ARTICLE  v.— Fart  FovRTU-^Treamry, 
'     A  moiionvvas  made  to  amend  the  second  section  by   requir- 
ing the  treasurer's  bond  to  be  approved  by  the  governor  instead 
■>i  lh':i  Icsidature- 


175 

Mr.  Holmes,  in  support  of  the  report,  observed  that  the  peQ- 
j\q  were  always  jealous  of  the  disposal  of  their  money  ;  and  as 
their  money  is  to  be  drawn  from  the  treasury  by  the  joint  act 
of  the  governor  and  the  treasurer,  it  was  thought  best  to  have 
the  bond  given  to  the  satisfrtction  of  the  Legislature.  Such  ie 
the  provision  in  the  Constitution  of  Massachusetts,  and  it  was 
tljought  best  to  retain  it.     Motion  withdrawn. 

The  lour  sections  in  this  article  passed  without  further  dis- 
cussion and  without  amendment. 

ARTICLE  Vl.-^Judicial  Power, 
The  six  sections  in  this  article  passed  unanimously    without 
debate. 

ARTICLE  Vn-- Military, 

Mr.  Little,  of  Bucksport,  proposed  to  strike  out  (he  whole 
article. 

Cul.  Currier,  of  Readfield,  moved  to  amend  by  inserting  after 
the  word '' companies,"  these  words,  *' the  electors  shall  be 
twenty  one  years  of  age." 

Mr.  Holmes.  It  is  the  la«;t  proposition  I  would  support — ex- 
clude those  under  twenty  one  from  the  right  to  vote,  it  is  a 
grievance  which  has  long  demanded  redress.  Those  between 
eighteen  and  twenty  one  are  generally  the  best  soldiers  and  of- 
ten constitute  half  the  company — And  are  these  to  be  silent  and 
see  officers  put  over  them,  without  their  voice,  and  by  men  IO0 
who  are  soon  to  retire  ?  It  has  created  much  jealousy,  disgust 
and  complaint,  and  been  universally  deemed  unequal  and  un- 
just and  I  tru-t  it  will  be  so  considered  by  the  Convention.  It 
was  one  of  the  worst  features  in  the  Constitution  of  Massachu- 
^etfs,  and  I  rejoice  thai  we  have  an  opportunity  to  suppress  it. 

Col.  Currier.  I  can  see  no  reason  why  minors  should  be  al- 
lowed to  vote  for  military  any  more  than  for  civil  officers. 
They  are  not  considered  as  coming  to  years  of  discretion  until 
they  are  twenty  one.  They  go  to  meeting  to  see  their  father* 
vote,  for  state  and  town  officers,  but  until  they  acquire  some 
knowledge  and  experience  it  is  not  considered  a  hardship  to 
exclude  them  from  the  right  to  vote  th*^mselves. 

Mr.  Holmes.  The  elector  ot  State  officers  chooses  his  ser- 
vant.  the  eoldier/izs  master^  and  a  boy  o{  fourteen  may  choose  a 
-master, 

Cni.  Allen,  of  Saiiford,  3poke  of  the  difficulty  of  discriminal- 
iis^  between  those  of  age  and  minow. 


176 

Mr.  Little  thought  it  better  to  leave   it  to  the   legisiaturc* 

Col.  Atherton  said,  he  felt  it  his  duty  to  oppose  the  amend- 
ujent — he  had  witnessed  the  ill  effects  of  turning  ambitious" 
young  men  out  of  the  ranks  on  days  of  election,  merely  because 
they  had  not  arrived  at  the  age  of  twenty  one.  MeveiUjeless 
ihey  are  ordered  out  to  attend  ihese  meetings,  and  as  it  would 
seem,  only  to  mortify  their  pride  and  ambition.  It  certainly 
has  had  thisefifect  to  his  knowledge  to  a  very  extensive  degree. 
Can  we  for  a  moment  suppose,  Mr.  President,  that  the  yourjg 
men  from  eighteen  to  twenty-one,  to  whom  we  are  willing  t» 
entrust  the  safety  of  our  lives  and  the  protection  of  our  liberties 
are  incompetent  to  choose  their  own  officers  ?  I  hope,  S»r,(said 
he)  we  shall  forever  do  away  this  humiliating  distinction  which 
never  can  answer  any  other  end  than  to  damp  the  ardor  of 
youth  and  destroy  that  ambition  and  emulation  without  whick 
©ur  military  establishments  would  be  good  for  nothing. 

On  motion  of  Judge  Bridge, 

Ordered^  That  a  committee  of  nine  be  appointed  to  take  int© 
•onsideration  the  apportionment  of  senators  and  representatives 
for  the  first  legislature,  and  to  report  such  facts  as  they  may 
find  in  relation  thereto  ;  and  whether  justice  requires  that  any 
alteration  should  take  place  in  such  apportionment : — The  Hon, 
Judge  Green,  Judge  Parris,  Dr.  Rose,  Mr.  Gitchell  of  Vassal- 
borough,  Mr.  Virgin,  Col.  Trescott,  of  Lubec,  Maj.  Treat,  of 
Bangor,  Col.  Atherton  and  Mr.  Collins,  of  Anson,  were  appoint- 
ed the  said  committee. 


MONDAY,  OCTOBER    25. 

A  communication  was  received  from  the  Secretary  of  the 
Commonwealth  olMa.'^sachuselts,  enclosing  a  list  of  the  votee 
given  in,  in  the  several  towns,  within  the  District  of  Maine,  up- 
on the  subject  of  separation  of  the  said  District  ;  which  was  or- 
dered to  be  placed  upon  the  files. 

Gen.  Wingate  moved  to  reconsiderthe  vote  passed  on  Sat- 
urday, on  the  amendment  proposed  by  the  Hon.  Mr.  Vi  hitman, 
in  the  5th  article,  part  2d,  section  41  h — which  was  in  these 
words,  strike  out  the  word  *•  under,"  and  insert  the  words  **  in 
the  executive  department  of." 

Judge  Green  stated  that  he  believed  the  motion  when  it  pass- 
ed w^as  not  perfectly  understood.  The  amendment  throws  op- 
en the  doors  of  the  council  to  the  officers  of  the  general  govern- 
:ment.    He  thought  it  highly  improper-to  admit  all  these  officers. 


17f 

snd  contrary  to  the  system  of  excluding  all  officers  of  the  gen 
eral  government  from  laking  pari  in  uur  state  government. 

Mr.  Whitman  opposed  the  reconsideration.  The  amend- 
ment was  distinctly  explained,  and  he  believed  well  understood 
in  all  its  bearings,  when  the  vote  was  passed.  We  should  not, 
said  Mr.  W.  exclude  men  from  otHce,  but  for  good  and  sufficient 
reasons. 

i  did  think  the  distinction  between  the  executive  and  the  oth- 
er branches  should  be  kept  up.  And  I  do  conceive  that  the 
legislative  and  executive  branches  of  the  two  governments  had 
ought  to  be  kept  as  distinct  as  possible.  Beyond  this  I  do  not 
think  it  necessary  to  go.  We  may  find  it  necessary  to  have  the 
services  of  the  other  officers  of  the  United  States,  and  we  ought 
not  to  exclude  them.  We  may  find  it  extremely  convenient  (o 
avail  ourselves  of  the  information  and  talents  of  those  who  are 
in  the  judicial  apartment,  by  placing  them,  or  having  the  pow- 
er to  place  them  in  the  council.  First  we  exclude  members  of 
congress,  and  next  any  officer  in  the  execuiive  depajlment. 
Further  than  this  we  ought  not  to  go  or  we  may  exclude  the 
best  talenis  in  the  state.  The  gentleman  from  Bath  said  we 
should  exclude,  5ls  (he  section  now  stands,  oidy  the  secretary  of 
state.  Sir,  it  is  not  so,  it  excludes  the  President  and  every  of- 
ficer under  him  in  the  execuiive  department  of  Uie  United  States, 
fi  ittglci  to  b^d^privad  at  the  rouncil  board  of  the  talents  oJ  our 
oollectorsof  the  revenue  ;  but  they  are  a  part  of  the  execuiive 
branch  of  the  government  and  therefore  ought  not  to  be  intro- 
duced. But  when  it  ap[)lies  to  the  judiciary,  what  incompati- 
bility is  there,  in  their  being  members  of  the  council?  The 
Judge  has  only  to  say  what  is  the  meaning  of  the  laws  of  the 
United  Slates.  I  would  not  therefore  exclude  ourselves  from 
benefitting  our  council  by  introducing  the  judi^es,  unless  there 
is  some  manifest  reason  for  it.  I  would  not  reject  them.  The 
proposition  vvas  passed  with  great  unanimity,  and  1  hope  it  will 
not  be  reversed. 

Mr.  Holmes  said,  he  thought  that  as  the  section  now  stands, 
it  will  extend  only  to  executive  officers,  which  he  believed  is 
not  what  was  intended.  1  see  no  reason,  said  Mr.  H  why  we 
should  ei  elude  officers  of  the  Stale,  more  than  those  of  the  U- 
nited  Slates.  1  can  see  no  difference  between  a  judge  of  Unit- 
ed States  Court,  and  a  judge  of  this  State.  I  think  it  immateii- 
al  whether  both  are  excepted  or  both  admitted.  There  is,  in 
m/  opinion  no  incompatibility  in  admitting  them;  but  it  wotiM 


178 

%e  an  edious  discrimlDation  to  include  one  and  exclude  the  oXhex* 

The  motion  to  reconsider  prevailed,  and  the  amendment  waa 
lost. 

Mr.  Holmes  then  moved  to  in«ert  after  the  word  *'  State,"  tlte 
words**  or  persons  holding  any  executive  office  under  the  Unit- 
ed States,  or  this  Slate,  notaries  public  excepted." 

Mr.  Holmes  said  he  would  exclude  loth  or  include  both, 

Mr,  Dole,  ol  AIna,  hoped  the  motion  would  not  prevail  ;  he 
believed  the  sectionwas  then  in  its  most  perfect  shape. 

Mr.  Whitman.  I  think  it  is  better  that  the  section  should 
9tar»d  as  )t  i*,  than  to  adopt  the  aniendtnent.  I  do  btiif^ve  it  to 
be  a  well  founded  principle  that  the  different  branches  of  the 
govfrnment  fchould  be  kept  distiwct.  Shall  we  then  say  that 
the  judges  may  be  mei^bers  of  the  ej^ecutive  department  ?  Will 
nut  the  governor  and  council  appoint  tbet-e  very  judges  ?  Sir,^ 
the  judges  of  our  supreme  judicial  court  are,  I  liust,  to  be  \he^ 
first  nien  in  the  State  and  ought  not  to  have  the  power  of  nonj- 
nating  themselves.  I  would  not  mix  thoSe  branches  when  tKere 
is  no  necessity  for  the  intermixture  To  suffer  them  to  be  iheir 
own  creators,  would,  in  my  opiivi(  n,  be  a  ujanifest  ifnpropiiety. 
I  would  noi  grant  lhis  power  to  the  executive  deparln.eni.  But 
they  have  nolhint^  to  do  with  the  appointment  ot  the  judges  oi* 
the  United  States  Courts.,  if,  however,  they  must  be  both  ex- 
cluded, or  included,  1  must  vote  against  it. 

Judge  Thacher  had  no  objt;cti(;n  to  lh«  exclu-^ion  of  State 
Judges,  in  order  to  prevent  a  confusion  of  department'^  ;  but 
thought  the  reason  did  not  extend  to  the  officers  of  the  United 
States,  He  could  see  no  evil  that  could  possibly  aii«e  from  in- 
troducing the  judicial  ofFicers  of  the  United  Slates  into  the 
council. 

Judge  Psrris.  I  hope,  Sir, the  motion  will  not  prevail.  There 
can  be  no  necess!t\  of  takurg  the  judges  (or  niembers  of  the 
council  and  not  kee[)ing  the  departUients  distmct.  I  can  see  no 
reason  for  m 'iking  a  dtslioLlion  in  fa\our  of  the  judgts  oi  the 
United  States.  As  ihe  lav\b  of  the  U.  S.  now  are,  there  is  but 
one  judicial  officer  of  th*^  United  S.r^fes,  who,  under  the  amend- 
ment, would  be  placed  in  the  council  ;  and  1  am  sure  he  would 
ncM  take  a  seat  in  ih^t  body  to  advi-e  ihe  governor 

Mt   Preble  rose  to  expref^s  his  sari^f^ction  with    the  article  as 
it  stood,  and  hoped  they  would  not  attempt  to  n^ake  these   nice' 
:and  invidious  distinctions. 

Mr.  Holmes.     From  forty  years  experience  in  Massachusetts^ 


179 

I  am  satisfied  the  gentleman  from  Portland  is  incorrect,  as  Judg- 
es of  the  State  have  been,  and  judges  of  the  United  Slates  have 
not  been  elected  members  of  the  council.  As  1  thought  the 
Cdnvention  wished  not  to  exclude  the  judicial  officers  of  the  U. 
States.  I  made  the  motion.  But  the  argument  of  the  jijentleman 
•lid  not  satisfy  me,  and  as  I  cannot  be  saiisfied,  I  will  withdravr 
the  motion. 

Mr.  Holmes  submitted  the  following  amendment  to  he  added 
to  the  3tl  section  of  article  4,  part  first  : — "  And  whenever  any 
town  not  entitled  to  elect  a  represeniative  shall  determine  a- 
gainst  a  classification  with  any  other  town  or  plantation,  the 
legislature  shall,  at  each  apportionment  of  representatives, oii  the 
application  of  such  town,  authorize  it  to  elect  a  representative 
for  surh  portion  :>f  time,  and  such  periods,  assh-^ll  be  equal  to 
its  proportion  of  representatives,  and  the  right  of  repre*<entaticn 
so  established,  shall  not  be  altered  uniJ  .'he  next  general  appor* 
tionment." 

There  has  been  this  difficulty,  (said  Mr  H.)  You  connect 
towns  which  have  no  natural  conriexion,  and  which  are  not  on 
friendly  terms.  This  connection  may  widen  the  breacii.  It  is 
•lesirable  U  obviate  the  difficulty.  The  amendment  proposed 
gives  an  election  to  these  towns  to  be  classed  or  not.  If  they 
determine  against  a  classification,  the  legislature  shall  assign 
them  a  representative,  such  portion  of  time,  and  at  such  peri- 
ods, as  shall  be  equal  to  their  population.  If  several  towa« 
apply  so  as  to  increase  the  number  too  high  for  any  patticular 
year  the  legislature  may  postpone  some^and  so  distribute  them^ 
as  to  comply  with  (he  other  provisions  of  the  constitution, 

The  President  expressed  an  opinion,  that  if  the  subject  were 
committed  to  a  select  coHimittee,  to  consider  and  report  thert- 
tn,  it  would  save  the  time  of  the  Convention. 

Gen  Chandler  was  in  favor  of  the  motion.  By  claseing  thr 
towiis,  you  give  them  a  right  ;  but  there  may  be  a  difficulty  in 
the  exercise  of  it.  Itv\i!|  be  more  agreeable  to  the  wishes  of 
the  people  to  give  them  a  right  to  choose  alternately.  But  I 
would  not  commit  the  subject,  tor  if  we  break  in  upon  the  sys- 
tem, we  know  not  where  it  wi'l  end 

Mr.  Holmes  said,  he  should  be  sorry  that  any  proposition  of 
his  'hould  set  aflo;it  a  system  so  well  matured  and  considertd 
as  this.  Ifthat  were  to  be  its  e ffi^ct  he  would  not  offer  it.  I 
hope,  said  he,  we  shall  not  gjo  upon  an  untried  ocean,  this  third 
week  of  our  session. when  it  i-  extremely  desirable  that  weshculd 
be  bringing  our  work  to  a  close. 


\ 


180 

Judsre  Farris.  wap  not  w  liriij  to  connmit  Ihe  subject,  farther 
than  f .  r  the  (ommi  ee  lu  consider  the  propo-inon  of  the 
gffi^leajan  from  Aifrtd,  or  other  prop  •sitj(>ns  v^hich  might 
be  «.  ffered  fur  the  meintier-  from  ihe  small  towns  niii^hl  he  heard 
and  some  mode  devised  that  would  he  satisfaciory  to  them.  But 
he  ahouM  not  be  willing  tt)at  tne  whole  subject  should  go  to  a 
cori'^ii  tee 

Judi.e  Green  was  bUo  willingj  to  save  time — but  not  to  set 
the  whole  «u.Sject  afloat.  We  ou^ht  not,  said  the  Judge,  to 
inovf  i  ,  or  disturb  it.  The  {pjtsiion  for  a  re  consideration  of 
the  whole  su' JK^i  is  ^oon  to  c<»me  t'efore  us,  when  it  will  under- 
go a  discussion — and  1  am  sa?i-fied  the  Conventii^n  will  not  re- 
consider it,  unless  a  substitute  i.^  offered.  But  I  think  the  mo- 
tion .4iou!d  be  committed,  to  see  if  any  thing  which  would  re- 
nx^e  the  difficulty  can  be  devised.  He  then  moved  that  the 
subject  of  Mr.  Holmes'  motion  be  committed  to  a  select  commit- 
tee. 

Dr  Rose  hoped  it  would  not  be  committed.  He  said  the  pro- 
position gave  the  small  towns  an  opportunity  of  choosing  to- 
gether, or  not ;  and  was  a  mode  of  making  peace  among  the 
towns.  It  does  not  alter  the  report,  any  further  than  to  pro- 
vide for  those  towns  a  mode  of  being  represented,  which  gives 
them  an  opportunity  of  making  their  election  whether  to  be  re- 
presented or  not. 

Mr,  Baldwin  thought  that  if  an  opportunity  were  ^iven  to  col- 
lect the  minds  of  those  ccmcerned  in  classification,  a  more  satis- 
factory system  might  be  agreed  on. 

Judge  Thacher  observed,  he  was  not  certain  that  he  under- 
stood the  effect  of  the  motion  of  the  gentleman  from 
Alfred,  in  the  sense  he  meant  it,  but  if  he  did,  he  said,  he 
was  most  decidedly  against  it.  He  said,  he  thought  it  was  a  de- 
parture irono  the  fundamental  principle,  soul  and  spirit  of  the 
whole  section  :  which  he  understood  to  be,  that  no  portion  of 
the  people  less  than  fifteen  hundred,  except  in  one  possible 
event,  should  be  authorised  to  elect  a  representative.  Where- 
as, if  the  amendment  takes  place,  i?  may  be,  and  probably  will 
frequently  so  turn  out,  that  a  portion  of  the  people,  not  exceed- 
ing two  oj"  three  hundred  will  be  invested  with  the  right  of 
electing  a  representative  :  or  more  properly,  the  simple  major- 
ity of  qualified  voters  found  in  that  small  portion  of  the  people, 
who  may  not  exceed  fifteen  'or  twenty,  will  have  the  riglit  once, 
in  two,  three,  or  five  years  to  elect  a  represtntalive  ;  which  re- 


J8i 

presentative  will  have  the  same  power,  durinor  the  lime  he  is 
elected  for,  as  a  member  chosen  by  the  lull  majority  of  a  town 
of  two  thousand  itihabitanl?. 

Suppose  three  small  towns  or  plantations  ?re  put  into  a  class, be- 
cause they  con  ain  fifteen  hu:i«!rad  inhabitants — ihese  individu- 
als in  {heir  newly  classed capacity.cotisWUile  acorporation  to  which 
the  Constitution  annexes  the  right  of  electing  one  repre>en!a' 
live  ;  in  this  view,  these  fitteen  hundred  persons  are  in  no  re- 
spect different  from  the  people  in  the  towns  of  Saco,  or  Bidde- 
Ibrd,  or  any  other  town  having  fifieen  hundred  inhabitants,  and 
not  enough  to  send  two  representatives.  The  true  piinciple  of 
the  section  is  that  every  fifteen  hundred, with  the  occasional  frac- 
tions it  may  contain  till  it  shall  have  enough  to  entitle  them  to 
send  two,  shall  send  one  representative,  and  but  one.  It  matters 
nothing  to  say  the  fi({een  hundred  persons  llius  classed  together 
are  distributed  over  the  territory  of  three  incorporated  towns,  or 
plantations.  The  right  of  representation  is  not  one  of  the  town 
or  plantation  rights  ;  and  whatever  may  have  been  the  case 
under  the  ancient  charters  of  the  Colonies  and  Provinces,  towns 
or  plantations  do  not  necessaiily  include  the  right  of  electing  a 
representative.  And  as  well  may  that  portion  of  people.  In 
any  other  incorporated  town  which  are  included  in  a  school 
district,  claim  the  right  to  a  separate  representation,  as  these 
small  towns  and  plantations.  Nor  did  he  see  any  abstract 
ground  or  reason  on  which  one  of  these  small  towns  or  p'anla- 
tions  could  be  justified  in  their  claims  o(  privileges,  over  any 
equal  portion  of  the  people  in  any  of  (he  large  towns. 

He  continued  to  obser^'e,  tliat  it  appeared  to  him  some  evils 
might  grow  out  of  such  a  regulation  ;  ^vhat  if  each  of  tl)ese  im- 
aginary component  parts  of  a  town  should  apply  for  tfieir  ngiit  to 
a  separate  election  of  a  representative  as  often  as  their  numbers 
might  be  found  to  bear  its  ratio  to  the  whole  number  of  the 
class  ?  Shall  each  have  the  privilege  the  same  year  ?  Or 
shall  A.  have  it  the  first  year,  B.  the  second  and  C.  the  third  ? 
If  it  be  granted  to  one  only  for  the  same  year,  which  has 
the  right  of  priority  ?  And  is  not  this  tantamount  to  saying 
that  tfie  majority  only  of  one  third  of  the  votes  in  a  town  slidl 
elect  the  representative,  while  the  two  majorities  of  the  oUier 
two  parts  are  not  permitted  to  vote  at  all — And  so  the  town 
may  always  be  represented  by  a  person  who  is  opposed  by  four 
fifths  of  Its  qualified  voters  ! 

But  he  wjshed  to  know,  what  there  v^ras  to  prevent  the  Le  m's- 
16 


182 

iature  permitlinp:each  part  to  elect  the  same  year;  and  one  had 
as  4,'ood  a  liglii  as  ibe  oihei  ;  f(;r  ihe  real  equ  va'ent  ihis  portion 
of  people  give  iorlt]e  privilfg^  of  hM)(  i,,g  one  ^^.plesentatlve  ift 
this  njaniier,  i-j  thai  thev   w»ilingl^  constnl  u-  It  wi.l.out  arep- 
res^enlative  tiii  iheir  toin  .shall  cume  round   ggaiii,  in  ;hiee,  four, 
or  five  years,   accordint;  to  the   ratio  iht^ir   uun.ier  btarstothe 
whule.     And  it  is  rjatuiMl  to  sm|  |)u>t   (he  tinrifs  and  circumstan- 
ces may  be  such  as  thai  each  town  or  plantation,    in  llje  class, 
may   have   good  reasons   for  their  ?ei;arate   ri^ht,  in  one  year 
rather  than  another — Indeed,  he  ihiught    \ery    strange  resuks> 
might  be  expected  to  tr  ke  p  ace  fruni  an  arrangenient  so  novel, 
and  contrary  to  an\  thing  he  fiad  been  hiil^ertu  ycquamted  with. 
Judge  Dana.     Mr.  Pre^^ident — I  caimot  agree  to  the  amend- 
menzofour    b()noural)le  chairn>an  of  .he   committee       It  is  his 
duty  to  explain  and  support  the  report;  but  when  he  discovers 
necessary   a?rjendn)(  nis,  it  is    his  paramount   duty    to  propose 
ihtm.     With  ^//i5  rzezi' he  has   undogbtedly  offered    ihis  amend- 
7nent  ;  and  I  conteis   1  discover  in  it  some  salutary  provisions.. 
Where  a   town  has  not  a  sufficient  number  to  seiid  a    represen- 
tative, and  so  situated    that   it  cannot    be  cla.ssed,   it  is  proper 
that  such  town  shc»uld  have  representation  according  to  its  pcpu- 
lation  ;  so,  where  two  or  more   towns  are  classed,  but  aie  not 
contis^uous  and    conveniently   situated  for  a  district,   it  Q;ay  be 
convenient  for  them,   each  to  enjoy  its   representation  by   rota- 
tion.    But  while  lhe.se  benefits  may  l>e  derived  from  the  amend- 
ment, is  the   honorable    mover  aware  of  all  the  evil  consequen- 
ces, which  will  result  from  it  ?     Suppose   a  town  to  be  cTassed 
with  a  nuniber  of  plantations — by  taking  the  town  from  the  dis- 
trict, you  break  it  up,  and  thereby  deprive  the  remainder  of  the 
class  from  enjoying  the  right  of  being  represented — for  they  may 
be  so  situated,  that  they  cannot  be  formed  into  another  district. 
Again,  Sir,  the  amen^nient  as  now  pi<!posed  authorize.^  the  Leg- 
islature, upon  the  application  of  a  town  in  a  cla.^s,  to  take  that 
town   from  the  class,    and    allow  it  a    separate  rej.resentation  ; 
but  no  such  favor  is  the  Legislature  authorized  to  extend  U) plan- 
iaiions    in  the  same  class,  and  peihaps  more  populous  than  the 
town,  for  which    such    privilege  is  designed.       Why   then  this 
distinction — this  unequol  distinction,    betwtren  towris  and  plan- 
tations ?    Besides,  Sir,  it  }ou  authorize  applications  ol  this  kind 
lo  the  Legislatute,  will  they  not  be  continnally  perplexed   wj'.h 
them?     However,  if  the  amendment    should  be  so  m(  diliud  as 
to  admit  plantations,    as  well  as  towns  to  a  participation  ol  the 
same  benefit.?,  1  should  withdraw  my  ohjeclions. 


18S 

Mr.  Holmes.  The  application  to  the  Legislature  is  to  be 
matle  at  the  time  or  Ihe  appoitiontnciit.  The  towns  applying 
will  first  be  arranged,  and  then  the  re^-idence  taken  and  classed. 
Between  the  periods  of  apportionment  they  cannot  be  altered 
on  application. 

Judge  Dana  thought  it  for  the  advantage  of  s?nall  towns. 
Bui  there  is  another  oi)jeclion.  Take  a  section  oi  country  con- 
ta  ning  three  or  four  towns  and  six  plantations.  One  large  town 
shall  be  allowed  to  send  a  repjeseniative  once  in  two  or  three 
years,  leaving  the  lemainderol' the  class  too  stnall  to  entitle  it  to 
be  represented  ;  will  noMhis  render  the  classing  impossible  ? 

Mr.  Allen,  of  N.  was  highly  gratified  with  a  proposition 
which  would  accommodate  a  great  proportion  of  those  towns 
which  were  subjected  to  inconvenience  by  the  present  mode  of 
classification, 

Mr.  Whitman.  Mr.  President — I  should  be  very  happy  to 
accommodate  the  small  towns  if  it  were  practicable.  But  I  am 
satisfied  tiial  there  wdl  ()e  difficulties  in  the  way,  which  are  in- 
*^nrmouM(3i>le  What,  Sir,  will  be  the  effect  of  this  amendment^* 
We  shall  have  ihe  compact  part  of  the  Slate  applying  t^or  a 
repre>entation,  and  leave  the  plaiitation^,  of  thr«e  or  four  biin- 
dre  i  population,  in  etfect  without  a  representation.  Wilh  sucii 
an  extent  of  territory  as  they  will  be  composed  of,  and  thirty  or 
forty  tniif'S  for  the  assessor's  to  travel  to  examine  and  compare 
the  voles,  I  think  it  will  be  tantamount  to  denying  thein  a  repre- 
seiilation  Their  right  is,  that  a  town  wdh  five  hundred  inhab^ 
itan's  ^hall  have  a  right  to  send  once  in  five  years,  and  wilh  four 
hundred  once  in  six  years.  Sir,  if  we  adopt  this  proposition,  it 
Will  only  inr\ke  confusion  worse  conCounded. 

Mr.  Miller,  of  Warren,  observed,  if  vve  consume  four  hours 
in  this  discussion,  we  shall  then  be  where  we  now  are  ;  and 
hoped  the  subject  would  be  coiniudted,  that  the  towns  con- 
cerned might  state  the  inconveniences  and  5ee  if  they  were  sus- 
ceptible of  remedy. 

Mr.  Holmes  hoped  it  would  be  commi:teJ,  to  see  if  the 
towns  in  the  classes  might  not  i)e  accommodated. 

Judge  Dana  suggested  whether  it  .vould  not  be  well  also  to 
commit  itie  subject  of  Iwoor  moie  towns,  which  are  entitled  to 
send   two. 

Dr.  Peikins,  of  Weld.  Mr.  President— I  hope  the  amend- 
ment  will  not  prevail.  The  reason  why  the  gentlemen  from  Ihj 
small  towas  say    nothing  ob  this  subject,  is  in  my  opinion,  be- 


184 

cause  they  are  already  satisfied,  and  are  determined  how  (o 
'  \o'e.  Hy  tliis  system,  if  a  person  is  chosen  by  one  lownjie  will 
consider  himself  as  representing  ihe  other  (owns.  Hut  one  town 
if  it  chooses,  ran  break  up  (he  district  and  vole  not  to  send  a 
representative  and  thereby  the  district  will  not  be  represented. 
These  towns  lalior  under  incof)veniencies,  but  they  are  willing 
to  do  so,  for  the  public  ^t;ood.  They  must  do  that  or  not  have 
the  r!;:^ht  over  the  large  towns,  in  repre^entati<.n. 

Mr.  Vance,  ol  Calais,  confirmed  the  observation  of  Dr.  Per- 
kins, that  th(>?e  towns  wire  well  satisfied— at  least,  said  he,  as 
much  so  as  iUey  possibly  could  be.  considering  the  situation  of 
ihe  country.  In  his  district  there  were  th'ee  towns,  and  six 
])!anlalions  ;  suppose  each  town  to  apply  to  the  Legislature,' 
two  towns  will  then  have  no  representative  and  the  plantations 
uone  at  all,  as  their  turn  will  con.e  oiice  only  in  uine  years, 

Mr.  Leach,  of  Raymond,  expressed  his  approbatrbn  of  ihe 
pri)p(^s  tion  of  Mr.  [Jolmes. 

Mr.   Parsons  intimated    that,   as  the  next   distribution  would 
?aise  the  number  of  inhabitants  to  confer 'he  right  to  send  a  rep- 
esentative,  other  towns  were  concerned. 

The  motion  to  commit  obtained,  112  to  88. 

The  committee  appointed  on  ihissuljecl  con.'isted  of  the  fol- 
lowing members  selected  from  the  several  counties  ;  Messrs. 
Dole,  of  AIna  ;  \Hood,  ol  Lebanon  ;  Leach,  of  Raymond;- 
Lawson,  of  Wayne  ;  Perkins,  of  Weld  ;  Aiberton,  of  Prospect  ; 
Neal,  of  Madison  ;  Wiikins,  of  Orrington,  and  Burgin,  of  Ear^t- 
port. 

Gen.  W^ingate  then  submitted  a  further  amendment  to  (he 
3d  section  aforesaid  :  v'»hich  was  read  and  ordered  to  lie  upon 
die  table. 

ARTICLE  VU.-^Mvitary. 

Sections  1  and  2,  [)assfcd  «ilh  verbal  amendments,  sugges- 
ted by  Gen.  Wiui^ate. 

Section  3.  Gen.  Wingate  moved  to  insert  "  Quarter-Mas- 
!er-General,"  and  also,  *'  but  the  Adjutant-General  shall  per- 
form the  duties  of  Quarter  Master  General,  until  otherwise  di- 
rected by  law."     Which  was  agreed  to. 

Col.  Hobbs,  of  Berwick,  moved,  after  the  words  "the  Ma- 
r-Generals   shall    be   chosen''    to  strike  out  *'  by  the  Senate 
dud   House  of  Representatives,  each    having  a  negative  on  the 
other,"  and  to  insert     "by  the    Brigadier  Generals,   and   the 
Field  OfTiccrs  in  their  respective  Divisions."     In  support  of  this 


motion,  he  abserped,  ihat  he  bad  seen  practical  evils  in  the 
present  mode  of  electing  Major-Generals.  It  had  produced  the 
election  of  men  not  before  in  commission,  and  thereby  excited 
a  dis-atisfaclion  among  the  officers  in  commission,  who  consid- 
ered themselves  in  a  manner  superseded  ;  and  he  had  known 
an  Ensign  resign,  in  consequence  of  the  appointment  of  a  Major- 
General.  The  Militia,  said  Mr.  IL  are  the  best  judges  of  the 
qualifications  of  those  who  are  to  command  them,  and  the  most 
deeply  interested  in  securing  the  talents  and  knowledge  on 
which  they  must  rely  for  their  respectability,  usefulness,  and 
safety.  The  legislature  i^  composed  of  men  from  various  clas- 
ses of  society — men  generally  exempted  from  military  duty  and 
little  acquainted  with  tactics  ;  not  having  an  .identity  of  feeling 
with  the  soldier,  and  conse(iuently,  not  suitable  to  judge  of  the 
merits  of  candidates  for  aiilitary  promotion. 

Col.  Atherton  preferred  to  have  the  section  stand  as  it  was. 
The  Legislature  are  tlie  guardians  of  our  civil  rights,  and  with 
r  them  siiould  rest  the  appointment  of  our  highest  military  com- 
manders. It  would  be  highly  i  npropf  r  to  place  the  power  of 
electing  so  highly  responsible  an  officer  a?  a  M^jor  General, 
who  may  have  twenty-eight  thousand  men  under  his  command, 
in  tlie  hands  of  the  military.  A  very  dangerous  use  might  be 
made  of  this  power.  He  was  dis[)osed  to  secure  the  military 
all  the  prjvijeges  to  which  they  are  entitled  ;  but  he  considered, 
that  in  this  particular,there  should  be  some  balance  to  the  espirit 
du  corps,  and  under  excitement  which  might  sometimes  exist 
'among  them. 

Mr.  Holmes.  The  Committee  thought  it  safest  to  leave  it  as 
it  is  in  Massachusetts.  It  has  happened,  that  in  selecting  the 
Brigadier-Generals,  from  military  principles  improper  men 
have  been  appointed  ;  and  it  may  be  best  to  depart  in  some 
instances  from  strict  military  rules.  We  have  generally  pre- 
ferred the  old  system,  unlesii  a  valid  objection  was  made,  or 
5iome  substantial  reason  was  offered  for  changing.  Experience 
is  the  best  school-master  Under  the  Constitution  of  Massa- 
c!)usetts,  we  have  done  well  enough  in  this  particular;  and  it  is 
a  favorite  maxim  with  some  gentlemen,  io  let  well  alone, 

Mr  Ailams,  ofGorham,  said  he  must  differ  in  sentiment 
trom  his  friend  from  Berwick.  The  Legislature  had  indeed  in 
some  instances,  departed  from  the  usu'il  practice  of  making 
choice  of  the  next  (officer  in  rank  ;  but  whenever  this  had  been 
done,  especially  in  electing  a  Major  General,  for  that  di?ision 
16=^ 


186 

^iODiprised  in  the  county  of  York,   the  militia  had  been  greatly 
benefitted  by  the  innovation,  if  it  could  be  so  called. 

This  motion  was  lost,  62  tor  and  104  against  it. 

Section  3,  passed  as  amended. 

Section  4,  passed  without  debate. 

Sections.  Persons  of  the  denomination  of  Quakers  and  Sha-  , 
uers,  shall  be  exempt  from  military  duty  ;  bui  no  person  except  . 
the  Justices  of  the  Supreme  Judicial  Court  shall  be  exempted 
by  reason  of  holding  or  having  held,  any  civil  office,  under  thiis 
stale  without  paying  an  equivalent. 

Mr  Hall,  of  Buci  fi^ld,  moved  to  strike  out  this  section  and 
sub-litule  the  following:  "  The  militia  who  are  by  law  obliged 
to  bt-.ar  arms,  shall  have  a  reasonable  compensation  for  their 
services."  In  support  of  this  motion,  Mr.  Hall  observed,  that: 
property  ou_yht  to  pay  for  the  protection  furnished  by  personal 
services — that  such  a  system  would  remedy  the  inequality  and  * 
injustice  of  the  present  arrangement,  and  that  the  militia  wQuld 
be  sati-fieil,  should  there  be  a  considerable  number  of  exempts, 
if  an  equivalent  should  be  required. 

Col   Atherton.     No  man,  Mr.  President,  can  feel  more  sensi* 
bly  than  I  do,  the  great  and  unequal  burdens,  which  have  been 
exclusively  sustained  by  the  militia  ;  and  no  one  is  ready  to  go 
farther,  and  do   more  to  equalize  those    burdens  than   1   am. 
There  can  be  no  question  as  to  the  justice  of  allowing  a  reason- 
able compensation  for  military  services.     It  would  be  dividing 
among   the  whole  a  large   tax,  which  is  now  thrown  on  a  part. 
It  would  cost  the   people  no  more  than   it   now    does  ;  yet  it 
would  be  apportioned  more  equally  amongst,   all  classes.     But. 
sir,  notwithstanding  the  manifest  justice  of  this  claim,  it  may   ^ 
be  inexpedient   to  make  the  provision  in  the  Constitution.     It 
w^ould  at  present  be  extremely  difficult  to  raise  the  iunds  for  this  ^ 
object.     Hereafter  it  may  be  and  ought  to  be  done.     It  wi!J  be  * 
left  for  the  Legislature  to  equalize  the  burdens.  I  am  convinced 
that  the  militia   will  be  perfectly  satisfied    at    this  time,    with' 
.som>ething  less,  as  perhaps  an  exen5plion  from  a  poll  tax. 

Mr.  Redington,  of  Yassalborough,  said  the  state  of  his  health 
would  have  prevented  his  rising  to  address  the  Convention,  if 
be  was  not  compelled  by  a  sense  of  duty  to  offer  a  few  remarks. 
1  should  have  no  ol)jection,  said  Mr.  R.  to  this  provi-ion,  if  it 
was  not  for  the  attempt  to  draw  into  the  ranks  of  the  militia, 
some  religious  denominations,  whose  consciences  forbid  their 
doing  military  dutv,     A   dis^t incfion  is  attempted  to  he  drawn. 


187 

between  the  rendering  a  personal  service  as  a  soldier,  and  pa/- 
ing  an  equivalent  ;  but  they  are  substantially  the  same.  And 
those  who  have  these  conscientious  scruples,  can  no  more  pay 
an  equivalent,  than  take  up  arms  and  perform  (he  duties  of  a 
soldier.  Sir,  what  is  an  equivalent  ?  It  is  something  which  is 
equal  to  that  from  which  they  are  exempted.  You  exempt  men 
from  committing  what  they  consider  a  crime  ;  but  you  require 
them  to  perform  services  which  are  equal,  or  are  an  equivalent. 
Let  me  call  the  attention  of  the  Convention  to  a  kw  facts,  sir, 
and  they  will  be  convinced  that  they  cannot  do  the  last,  any 
more  than  the  first. 

The  United  States  made  a  law,  that  the  soldiers  of  the  conti- 
nental army,  in  the  revolutionary  war,  might  receive  pensions 
for  their  services.  Now  these  are  men  who  have  fought  the  bat- 
tles of  our  independence,  and  have  since  become  quakers  ;  and 
they  will  not  receive  their  pensions.  I  knew  an  instance  of 
this  kind,  and  can  there  be  a  stronger  one,  to  show  that  exemp- 
tion from  military  duty  wiil  not  relieve  their  consciences,  while 
they  are  compelled  to  pay  an  equivalent  ?  Another  fact  1  will 
state.  1  have  known  the  property  of  quaker??,  to  twenty  times 
the  amount,  taken  and  sold  for  the  payment  of  military  fines, 
and  they  would  not  receive  the  surplus.  I  knew  a  man  who 
was  imprisoned  for  refusing  to  pay  a  fine,  and  he  would  not 
come  out,  although  others  offered  to  discharge  it.  If  the  Con- 
vention consider  these  facls,  they  must  be  convinced  that  qua- 
kers  cannot,  in  conscience,  pay  an  equivalent  for  the  exenip- 
tion. 

It  has  been  said,  we  should  have  none  to  di^fend  us,  if  all 
were  quakers.  On  the  contrary,  we  should  so  conduct,  that 
none  would  attack  us.  Having  lived  among  thena  from  thirty 
to  forty  years,  I  do  know  that  they  are  a  very  different  kind  of 
people  from  what  I  once  thought  tliern.  They  pay  their  taxes 
for  other  purposes,  but  they  cannot  discharge  a  military  assess- 
ment. They  do  not  wish  their  property  or  live?  to  be  defend- 
ed at  the  cannon's  moulh.  They  never  give  offence  toothers^ 
and  historv  can  furnish  no  example  of  their  wars.  In  reality 
however  they  pay  more  than  an  equivalent  tor  military  servi- 
ces. They  support  their  own  poor,  and  this  alone  is  more  than 
an  equivalent.  No  poor  quaker  was  ever  known  to  apply  to  the 
town  for  relief.  In  addition  to  this,  they  pay  their  proportion 
for  the  support  of  the  poor  of  tlie  towns  in  which  they  live* 
They  also  ^Jipport  their  own  schools  ;  and  they  never  asked   6r 


188 

Teceived  any  public  lands  of  the  Legislature.     If  this  sec  I  ion  is 

'  left  out    they  will  be  exposed  to  a  tax,  or  to  pay  an  equivalent, 

and    1  think  the  militia  Ihennjelves   will   be  opposed  to  ir,     I 

hope  therefore  it  will  remain,  and  be  a  part  of  the  Constitution. 

Rev.  Mr.  Francis,  of  Leeda,  was  not  satisfied  with  the  r»eport. 
It  goes  to  establish  a  principle  which  we  have,  in  our  bill  of 
rights,  declared  we  ou^ht  not  to  establish,  and  which  ought  not 
to  be  established — the  preference  of  one  sect  or  denomination 
to  another.  I  would  not  wish  to  make  quakers  do  military  du- 
ty, or  that  any  others  should  be  compelled  to  do  it,  who  are 
conscientiously  scrupulous  of  bearing  arms.  I  would  therefore 
propose,  ia  case  the  present  motion  does  not  obtain,  to  substi- 
tute an  amendment,  that  all  persons  whose  religi(»us  sentiments 
forbid  them  engaging  in  war,  should  be  exempted  from  military 
duty. 

Mr.  Holme?.  Mr.  President — 1  will  support  this  part  of  the 
report,  as  well  because  it  is  so  reported,  as  that  it  meets  my  ap 
probation.  It  is  well  as  it  i^.  it  merely  intimates  to  the  Leg- 
islature tha*  they  y)m\j  exempt  quaker*  and  shakers.  It  suppo- 
se? that  it  will  be  best  ge7ieraUy  to  exempt  them  ;  but  that  a 
state  of  things  may  exist,  when  if  shall  be  necessary  that  they 
should  contribute  something  for  military  purposes  I  d.»  not  a- 
gree  with  tlie  gentleman  trom  Leeds,  (Mr.  Francis)  that  it  in- 
terferes with  the  provisi  ;n  in  the  bill  of  rights,  ofgiviwg  one  de- 
nomination a  privilcL^e  greater  than  that  enjoyed  by  anuther  it 
would  rather  interfere  with  the  right  of  conscience,  lo  compel 
the.^e  people  to  contribute  to  purposes  of  war.  And  what  would 
be  the  effect  of  such  an  attempt.^  How  would  you  make  a  sol- 
dier of  a  quaker,  with  his  long  tailed  coat  and  his  broad  brim 
hat  ?  Upon  what  principles  of  humanity  would  you  drag  him 
into  the  ranks,  or  (he  prison,  for  refusing  to  do  what  his  con- 
science tells  him  is  wrong  ?  There  seems,  to  be  sure,  son»e 
reason  thai  the  quakers  should  pay  for  their  protection.  But 
it  is  equally  true,  that  they  cause  no  military  expenses.  They 
want  no  grants  tor  schools  or  academies  ;  they  demand  no  re- 
muneration for  the  support  of  their  poor,  and  they  refuse  not 
the  aids  whicii  charity  demands. 

The  reasons  are  equally  strong  in  favor  of  the  shakers.  This 
singular  people  contribute  nothing  to  the  increase  ot"  Riankind, 
and  very  properly  refuse  to  aid  in  their  destiuction.  They  are  • 
nol  of  the  wor-d  :  they  are  not  made  iA flesh  and  blood.  They 
share  none  of  the  benefits  of  the  extravagances  of  society,  and, 
wish  to  be  exemoted  from  the  effect  of  them. 


189 

As  to  the  power  to  exempt  civil  officers  of  the  state,  these  are 
very  prnperly  denied.  The  inducement  of  le<^isIators  to  ex- 
empt themselves,  is  loo  strong  to  be  resisted.  They  will  be- 
come justices  of  the  peace,  and  the  first  thing  is  to  exempt 
themselves  from  military  duty.  This,  by  this  Consitution,  ihey 
are  not  permitted  to  do.  Consequently  two  or  three  regiments 
of  able  bodied  clerlis,  sheriffs,  and  justices  of  the  peace,  vvdl  be 
brought  into  the  ranks  ;  the  reappointments,  new  appoint- 
ments, and  the  dijiappointments  together.  Thus,  sir,  v\e  can 
have  an  army  at  a  moment's  warning. 

As  10  the  proposition  of  the  gentleman  from  Buckfield,  (Mr. 
Hall)  although  I  may  think  it  reasonable  to  pay  the  ndlitia,  we 
ought  to  inquire  whether  we  have  the  money.  We  are  yet 
p."?or,  and  must  begin  with  economy,  and  when  the  purse  will 
bear  it,  let  the  legislature  pay  the  militia.  1  trust  neither  of  the 
propositions  will  be  adopted. 

Mr.  Hall  said  he  did  not  wi^^h  to  make  the  Quakers  do  mil- 
itary duty.  He  thought  that  if  it  was  let't  to  the  Legislature, 
they  would  exempt  such  as  they  saw  fit,  and  that  if  instead  of 
turning  all  into  the  ranks  they  caused  the  militia  to  be  paid,  it 
would  be  satisfactory  to  them,  as  it  would  mcrease  the  burden 
of  those  who  have  heretofore  been  free  from  an  equal  share.— 
The  militia  now  labor  under  a  heavy  burden  ;  and  if  they  are 
the  bulwark  of  our  country,  they  ought  to  be  compensated  for 
their  services.  If  we  say  that  a  small  proportion  of  the  people 
shall  bear  all  the  burden  of  defence,  and  are  not  paid  for  their 
services,  they  have  not  that  protection  of  their  righis  which  they 
are  entitled  to. 

Juilge  Thacher  enquired  who  w^as  to  determine  what  a 
man's  cofiscieiiiious  scruples  were  ;  and  when  they  were  sincere  ? 
The  Judge  said,  he  was  very  well  acquainted  with  the  Soci- 
eties of  Friends,  and  for  many  years  while  he  was  at  New  Yoik, 
and  Philadelphia,  he  had  opportunities  of  seeing  n  uch  of  their 
regulations  as  societies  of  chris'it^ns,  and  to  be  intirrialely  ac- 
qu  ifited  with  manv  of  them  as  individuals,  and  he  did  not  hes- 
itate to  say  he  was  ready  to  go  farther  than  any  n^ember  had 
gone  in  appreciating  their  principles  in  general  as  a  sect  of 
christians,  and  of  their  individual  conduct  that  it  approached,  in 
several  respects,  ne^rar  io  evangelical  purify  than  any  o'her  sect 
he  was  acquainted  with  ;  yet  ht  thought  they  hc<d  son'r  errors  ; 
though  he  looked  upon  them  as  less  pernicious  to  sociei\  than 
the  errors  of  some  other  sects, — He   declared  that  he  was  him^ 


190 

self  against  war,  and  was  much  inclined  to  thr  opinion  that 
christians  ought  not  to  go  to  war  ;  thai  he  was  a  friend  ai)il  well 
wisher  to  all  the  various  means  lately  adopted  by  associations  to 
prevent  future  wars  by  eiadicitng,  suftenins  and  givint  a  ntTr 
direction  to  the  passions  which  led  lo  war ;  and  he  had  no  doubt, 
as  people  acted  upon  pure  evangelical  principlts,  thfy  would 
become  averse  to  war  ;  and  in  the  same  ratio  wars  would  di- 
minish in  frequency,  and  become  less  cruel  in  the  manner  they 
had  been  carried  on. — But,  he  said,  he  did  not  think  it  a  safe  or 
proper  principle  for  government  to  adof)t,  always  to  leave  it  to 
the  consciencies  of  individual;?,  and  sim[)ly  tor  ihrm  lo  s^y  wheth- 
er they  will  obey  a  general  law  or  not,  and  r5o,  on  tiiat  ground, 
claim  an  exemption  from  a  general  duty.  In  the  course  of  for- 
ty years,  he  continued,  he  had  heard  a  great  deal  about  con- 
science and  consclenciovs  scruples,  »n  Courts  where  individuals 
had  appeared  lo  him,  but  he  judj^ed  only  ff>r  himself,  to  fee] 
more  lor  a  small  tax  to  support  a  nnnister  or  to  build  a  meeting- 
house than  of  its  real  repugnaiice  to  any  of  the  Laws  of  Jesus, 
the»r  real  or  pretended  master — that  is  contrary  to  the  laws  of 
that  kingdom  which  is  not  of  this  world.  Of. this,  however,  he 
was  ready  to  do  justice  to  the  Quakers.  He  had  never  fuund 
them  very  zealous  in  maliing  converts  from  other  denominations; 
nor  did  be  know  of  their  interfering  with  other  societies  by  at- 
tempting to  exempt  their  regular  numbers  from  a  parish  tax  by 
extending  to  them  the /cc;fl/  covering  and  protection  of  the  mere 
forms  of  their  f>wn  society,  as  some  other  sects  had  frequently 
done  — Of  which  practice  he  believed  he  could  produce  a  num- 
ber of  instances  fiom  trials  that  had  taken  place  in  the  courts  of 
law  ;  where  he  (bought  it  was  manifest,  that  conscience  was  but 
a  secondary  consideration,  and  a  pretence  to  get  cJear  of  a  regu- 
lar tax. 

Furthermore,  he  said  there  were  already  formed  societies, 
and  probably  otliersof  a  like  nature  and  profession  might  start 
up,  whose  professed  ol)j^ct  is  to  discountenance  national  wars  ; 
and,  he  had  no  doubt,  that  if  the  amendment  took  place,  it 
would  soon  t>ecome  a  supposed  natural  sentiment  with  their 
members,  especially  those  who  might  mistake  obstinacy  or  par- 
ty spirit,  for  co7iscierice,  V-  plead  cmisacnce  as  a  ground  and  justi- 
fying  reason  why  they  should  be  exempted  from  the  miliii^  or 
some  tax  they  may  please  to  say  {heir  conscience  tells  them  is  to 
carry  on  a  war.  ln«ieed,  he  felt  persuaded,  there  could  Oe  no 
fixed  limits  to  exempliuns  if  the  amendment  became  a  constitu- 
tional priaciple. 


191 

He  was  perfectly  ^ati«fied,  he  continued,  this  talk  about  cob* 
science  rf  vvtiicb  -ume  [)e  »pie  luade  >u  njuch   noise,  in  one  sect 
and  a.iudier,  wa^  not  clenrly  understood  ;  and  he  bej^ged  the  at- 
tention oi  the   Cuuvontion.   a  t«Mv  nn^ments,  and  he  thon^hi  he 
shtftlJ  be  abb  to  satiety  evt-rv  meaiber  of  it,  that  it  wa-  not  on- 
ly Sill  unsafe  ^loutid  to  f jund  exetupiuin'*  u^)<)n  ;    but   that  those 
wbc»  have  pleaded  it,  and  no^v  contend  so  n.ucb  tor  it,   havp  al- 
together nii-tcjktn  the  na*ure  and  charictei  of   heir  uwn  mcxts 
of  the    Chii-tiaci  Reli^jon — But    he    v^i^t>ed    tu  premise  fii-^t — 
that  in  a  country     wiiere  the   ctiri>«i^n  reigi  )n    wa^i  so  ^eiier- 
ally  professed,  in  snaie  form  or  other,   as  to  be  supp(»rted  by  all 
the   inhabitants,  it  is  not  to  be  presumed  that  any    Le^Haiure 
would  knowingly  pass  a   gtneral  law,  directly  contrary  to  the 
laws  of  their  religion,    which  it  is  ack  »ow!ediied  in  this  coun- 
try, are  contained  in   the    Hible — there,    an^   there  only  must 
p  op'e  look  lor  the  religion  of  christians.       And  in  this  countrj 
be  thougtit  aH  would  agree  with  him  lh.it  it  would  be  very  un- 
safe  indeed  to  leave  it  to  the  opinions  ut    indivduals  that  they 
could   not  in   conscience   obey  such  or  such  a  law,  or  pay  an 
equivalent  in  mom  y  or  services  because  they  might  be  of  opin- 
ion they  could  sfievv  by  reasoning  on  the  common  piinciples  of 
the  understandin^j  and  of  natural  ih«H)loj5y,   tbit  the  requisiiions 
of  the  law  were  repugnant  to  the  dictates  of  their  consciences. 
Many  individuals  may  consider  a  law  is  n.t  so  beneficial  to  the 
public,  or  their  particular  interests  as  it  might  be  if  it  were  al- 
tered in  some  respects — or  even    that  it  would  be  better  for  the 
community   if  it    were  repealed  altogether  ;  but  such  opinions 
or  convictions  o/cumcieneey  as  some  may  call  them,  are  no  le- 
gitimate  grounds  tor  p^r^onal    exemptions.       Conscience,  he 
thought  ought   ratiier   to  be  considered  as  an    impelHng  force^ 
than  a  diiectmg  principle   in  human  actions.     And  where  the 
unilerstanding  is  uninformed   and   darkened  by   prejudices  or 
party  spirit,  an  ardent,  zealous  temporal  man  was  likely  to  do 
as  much    hurt  to  individuals  and  the   public  by  adhering  to /f is 
conscience,  as  one  who  made  n_i  pretention  at  all  to  religion — 
He  alluded  to  the  family  of  the   Dutarties,  of  Sduth-Carolina  ; 
and  to  old  Caivin,   and  asked,   who  ever  doubled  but  the  latter 
acted  very  conscieniiously  in  the  aid  and  advice  he  gave  to  the 
burnirjg  of  poor  Servetus  ?     But  who,  lie  again  demanded,  ever 
committed  a   more  wicked  and  cruel  action  ?     The  torture  of 
the  victim  was  not  the  less,  becausa  his  persecutor,  throu:^h  ig- 
norance of  the   principles  and  spirit  of  bis  proteased  religion. 


192 

might  have  acted  consdeDiwmly.  He  thought  it  foreign  to  the 
point  in  debate  lo  go  intu  a  consideration,  how  far  the  criminal- 
ity uf  fhe  action  vvou^d  he  aflVcted  hy  these  considerations. 
Who  ever  called  in  question  the  sincerity  of  (he  consciences  of 
the  Judges  and  Jurors  who  condei^ned  so  nnany  men  and 
women  at  Salem,  for  Witches  and  Wizards  1  The  Quakers 
then)selves  were  persecuted  hy  our  pious,  godly  and  conscien^ 
ii'US  lorefalhers  ;  and  so  were  some  other  sects.  Indeed  he 
observed,  the  whole  history  of  the  Church,  (not  to  rest  solely 
on  the  case  of  the  great  Apostle  to  the  Gentiles  whose  umn- 
lii^htened,  tho  sincere  conscience  is  very  much  to  the  point, how  far 
it  (jught  to  be  made  the  giound  ol  exemption  from  general  civil 
duty)  as  well  as  all  party  disputes  of  a  political  nature  amount 
lo  a  moral  demonstration  that  conscience  or  the  moral  sense  is  a 
principle,  in  human  natuie,  that  rjeeds  instruction  as  much  as 
any  other  of  its  original  principles,  and  where  it  is  neglected  rt 
did  about  as  much  hurt  as  good,  and  was  as  oiten  wrong  as 
right  ;  and  when  wrong,  but  connected  wiih  erroneous  princi- 
ples 0/  religion y  it  never  failed  to  impell  devotees  to  the  greatest 
enormities. 

But  to  come  n^iore  directly  to  the  argument,  he  said,  it  might 
be  taken  for  granted,  that  the  Quakers  and  others,  who  claim 
the  exemption  on  the  ground  of  conscience,  do  it  as  Christians, 
that  is,  as  disciples  and  JoUowers  of  Jesus,  and  in  obedience  to 
his  reliii^ion  :  ur  in  other  words  they  claim  lo  be  subjects  of  his 
kmgdom,  and  as  such  cannot  render  obedience  to  the  laws  or 
requinitions  of  any  other  government  that  are  contrary  to,  or 
forbidden  by  the  laws  of  tiis  kingdom  He  thought  this  was  the 
ground  they  ought  to  take;  and  as  a  christian  and  brother  dis- 
ciple he  was  willing  they  with  him  should  enjoy  the  beeefits  (A 
that  kindom  to  its  utmost  extent,  as  Jesus,  their  common  Master 
and  King  intended  his  followers  should. 

The  principle  of  this  claim,  he  said,  was  common  to  all  gov- 
ernments. It  IS  acknowledged  every  day  in  the  State  Govern- 
ments with  regard  to  their  constitutions  and  laws,  as  related 
to  the  constitution  and  laws  t  f  the  United  Stales  ;  and  in  the 
laws  of  each  state,  as  related  to  their  respective  constitutions — 
when  the  laws  ot  Congress  are  contrary  to  the  Constitution  of 
the  United  States,  or  the  laws  of  a  Sraie  are  contrary  to  its  Con- 
stitutivin,  or  that  ot  the  U»Mted  States,  they  are  void — So  any 
law  of  man,  or  requi^iljon  under  ,)  hunjan  law,  contrary  to,  or 
forbidden  by  the  laws  of  Christ's  kingdom,  are   null  and  void — 


103 

But  lh«  lawsof  Chrisrs  kingdom,  that  are  to  be  received  hy  his 
disciples  as  para  mount  to  all  human,  laws  ought  to  be  .clear  and 
rxptess  ;  it  cannot  be  received,  as  he  betoie  observed,  that  ev- 
ery man's  opinion  of  particular  aclions  being  wrong  according 
to  some  mode  ot  ratiocinaiion  on  supposed  principles  of  expedi- 
ency, or  general  utility,  will  bring  ihose  actions  wifhin  the  case. 
And  it  must  be  recollected  that  Christ's  kingdom  is  not  of  this 
world.  He  never  pretended  to  regulate  things  that  are  called 
property,  according  to  the  laws  of  particular  nations,  or  the  ac- 
lions  of  men  in  but  few  cases^— -His  laws  are  over  Ibe  heart,  they 
regulate  the  feelings,  affections  and  temper;  they  take  higher 
ground  than  human  laws  ;  he  does  not  siojply  say,  thou  shall 
not  kill ;  but  purify  the  heart,  and  when  duly  obeyed,  make  it 
as  unnecessary  to  say  to  his  disciples,  thou  shall  not  kill,  as  it 
would  have  been  for  the  Deiiy,  on  the  creation  of  Adam,  to  com- 
mand him  not  to  fly  like  the  eagie.  A  little  attention  to  some  of 
the  precepts  that  compose  the  code  of  that  kingdom  into  which 
men  enter  when  they  become  disciples  of  Jesus,  will  shew 
whether  they  interfere  at  all  with  the  proposed  article  in  ques- 
tion— He  would  name  a  few  of  them  by  way  of  illustration-^- 
•'  Jesus  is  to  be  received  as  the  Christ" — '*  He  is  to  be  acknow- 
ledged before  men  ;  and  any  denial  cf  him  betore  men  is  a  re- 
nunciation of  allegiance" — ''  All  his  subjects  must  love  one  an- 
other"— **  they  must  love  their  enemies" — ^*  tiiey  must  do  good 
to  those  who  do  evil  to  them" — in  other  words  ihey  should  ren- 
der good  for  evil — '•  they  must  never  act  from  revenge  or  mal- 
ice"— ''  they  must  forgive  those  who  offend  and  i;ijure  them" — 
*'  they  must  preach  and  publish  the  gospel" — "  tbey  must  on 
all  occasions  obey  God  rather  than  man."  Now  all  these,  with 
the  rest  of  the  code,too  numerous  to  detail,  but  of  the  same  char- 
acter, the  apostles,  irr  their  various  epistles,  explnined  and  enfor- 
ced consistently  with  obedience  to  the  general  law?  of  Ibe  em- 
pire. And  wherein,  at  this  lime,  is  the  command  of  govern  ment, 
that  all  its  citizens  shall  contribute  to  its  support,  repugnant  to,  or 
forbidden  by  any  ofth€  precepts  just  recUed,  or  of  any  others  of 
the  heavenly  code  ?  For  the  vesting  the  legislature  with  authority 
to  call  upon  all  its  subjects  to  perform  militia  duty,  or  pay  a  sum 
of  money  for  an  exemption,  ought  to  be  considered  only  as  a 
mode  of  national  defei.ce  ;  and  will  any  one  of  this  Convention 
say,  that  a  national  delencey  when  attacked  by  a  public  enemy? 
is  unlawful  ?  Let  them  then  who  contend  for  the  exemption  on  the 
ground  of  the  demand  being  against  conscience,  point  cut  the 
17 


194 

aw  in  th€  christian  code  which  clearly  prohibits,  er  means  coun^ 
ter  to  the  requisilidn,  and  he  would  give  up  his  opposition  and 
support  their  cause  ;  for  he  believed  he  felt  as  n.uch  repugnance 
to  a  wilful  violation  o#  his  Master's  couiinands,  as  any  of 
then). 

Every  Quaker  and  Baptist,  indeed  every  disciple  of  Jesu^^ 
ought  to  act  in  the  common  affairs  of  life,  and  in  all  their  inter- 
course^with  the  governments  of  this  world  under  which  they  live, 
in  the  same  manner  as  they  have  good  reason  to  believe  their 
King  and  Master  would,  were  he  in  their  particular  situation. 
And  fortunately  we  are  not  left  in  the  daik  on  this  subject. 
The  general  conduct  of  Jesus  in  his  intercourse  with  society, 
as  well  as  his  laws  and  precepts,  are  for  our  instruction  and  di- 
rection in  like  ca^-es :  and  his  disciples  may  safely  regulate 
their  intercourse  with  the  existing  governments,  by  the  examples 
be  has  left  them  on  record. 

The  Judge  said  he  hoped  every  member  of  the  Convention 
would  attend  to  the  authorities  he  was  about  to  cite,  for  in  his 
'«nind  they  had  great  weight,  and  seemed  to  him  conclusive  on 
the  subject  in  debate. 

Jt  would  be  recollected,  when  Jesus,  wiih  his  I'isciples,  was 
returning  from  Galilee  to  Jerusalem,  they  entered  into  Caper- 
naum ;  and  they  who  received  tribute  came  to  Peter  and  asked 
him,  if  his  ujaster  paid  tribute  ?  And  he  answered  them,  that 
he  did  ;  and  when  Peter  was  come  into  the  house,  probably  to 
get  some  money  of  Jesus  ;  but  Jesus,  knowing  what  he  wanted, 
prevented  hi?  question,  by  demanding  of  l)im,  of  whom  the  kings- 
of  the  earth  look  custom  or  tribute  ?  of  their  own  children,  or  of 
strangers  ?  Peter  answered,  of  strangers  :  Then  said  Jesus  un- 
to him,  the  children  are  iiee.  Nevertheless,  continued  Jesus, 
lest  we  should  offend  them,  go  thou  and  cast  an  hook  into  iha 
sea,  and  the  first  fi^h  that  cometh,  take  it  up,  and  on  opening  its 
mouth  thou  shalt  find  a  piece  of  njonsy  ;  take  il  and  give  il  un- 
to them  for  thee  and  me. 

Now,  said  tlie  Judge,  can  there  be  a  more  direct  authority ,as 
lawyers  say  when  they  cite  precedents,  than  this  is  to  the  point 
in  debate  ?  Here  was  denmnded  of  Jesus  and  his  disciples,  an 
unlawful  tax,  but  rather  than  niakt  any  dispute  about  il,  a  n.ir- 
acle  was  wrought  to  getnioney  to  pay  it.  He  conlihued  that 
he  did  not  see  how  the  principle  cf  the  authority  can  be  avoid- 
ed, unless  Ihuse  who  conterid  for  the  amendment  sliculd  ?ay,that 
the  tribute  demanded  of  Jesus  and  his  companions,  was  a  tax  laid 


199 

jy  the  Jews  themselves  towards  the  defraying  of  the  expeosef: 
of  the  temple,  and  so  being  a  lawful  lax  according  to  the  law  of 
Mosea,  it  was  legally  binding  on  Jesus  and  his  disciples,  thej 
being  Jews,  and  the  temple  worship  not  \et  being  (ijlly  abro- 
gated And  if  any  member  should  take  this  ground  to  avoid  the 
application  of  the  authority,  he  was  ready  to  reply  and  support 
the  application 

But  he  must  beg  the  attention  of  the  Convention  a  few  mo- 
ments longer,  and  he  would  produce  another  text,  by  way  of  au- 
thority, which  he  looked  upon  (ree  from  all  objection  whatever. 
It  was  from  the  same  reporter,  Saint  Matthew,  chap.  22.  The 
Pharisees  took  counsel  toijelher  Iikjvv  they  might  entangle  Jesus 
in  his  talk,  and  so  they  sent  out  to  him  some  of  their  own  disci- 
ples, with  the  Herodians  (the  Judge  observed  it  was  probable 
these  Herodians  were  among  the  leaders  of  a  party  who  adher- 
ed to  Herod  their  Ki  ig,  and  might,  on  that  account,  be  somewhat 
attached  to  the  Roman  government  so  long  as  it  supported  Her- 
od and  their  party)  and  they  addressed  Jesus  by  calling  him 
Master,  and,  in  words,  at  least,  acknowledged  that  he  was  a 
teacher  sent  from  God,  and  that  he  cared  for  no  man.  Tell  us, 
said  ihey,  (what  they  thought  ot  great  importance  to  the  nation 
of  the  Jews)  was  it  lawful  or  not  to  give  tribute  to  Cesar  ?  And 
there  can  be  no  doubt,  but  they  expecied  he  would  answer, yea  • 
or  nay.  if  he  had  answered  in  the  affirmative,  then  the  Phnii- 
see's  would  have  chaiged  him  with  being  a  friend  to  the  Romans; 
and  an  enemy  to  his  own  people  the  Jews  ;  and  if  he  answered 
in  the  negative,  then  the  Herodians  would  have  faulted  him  as 
a  disturber  of  the  existing  administration.  But  Jesus  perceiving 
their  wicked  and  fraudulent  design,  said  to  them  ;  shew  me  the 
tribute  money  ;  and  they  brought  him  a  penny — and  he  demand- 
ed of  them  whose  image  and  superscription  was  on  the  coin? 
And  they  said,  it  was  Cesar's  ;  then  said  be  unto  them,  render 
unto  Cesar  tlie  things  that  are  Cesar's,  and  unto  God  the  things 
that  are  God's.  The  Judge  observed,  as  long  as  he  had  been 
conversant  in  courts  of  law,  he  did  not  recolieKt  evtr  to  have 
met  a  case  so  completely  proved  by  authority  of  precedents  as 
the  present  case  is  by  the  two  examples  of  Christ's  conduct  now 
cfuoted.  He  continued  that  it  might  be  fairly  inferred  from  the 
5asl  that  Jesus  did  not  look  upon  money,  that  is,  the  circulating 
coin  of  a  nation,  as  a  matter  wi'hm  the  jurisdiction  of  his  king^ 
dom,  or  as  having  any  value  set  upon  it  by  his  laws.  AH  the 
.  value  it  bad  it  received  from  the  authority  of  the  Emperor,  th^^i 


196 

is  the  civil  power  over  the  kingdom  of  this  world  ;  and  whenev- 
er he  or  his  officers  should  call  for  any  portion  of  it,  let  it  be  hi 
whose  hands  it  fijay,  if  the  demand  be  made  according  to 'he 
^"unerai  regulations  of  the  empire,  it  was  the  duty  of  the  holder 
to  ^ivfc  it  up  ;  and  the  paying  of  it  would  not  be  considered  by 
Jesus  himself  as  an  action  fvjrbidden  by,  or  contrary  to  any  of 
(he  laws  of  his  kingdom. — He  desired  the  New  Testament, wher« 
are  recorded  the  laws  of  ihe  kingdoir\  to  which  christians  belong 
as  disciples  of  Jesus  Christ,  and  are  often  explained  and  enforc- 
ed by  his  Apostles,  might  be  examined,  and  the  law  or  precept 
pointeil  out  which  is  contravened  by  a  holder  ot  Cesar's  coim 
paying  it  to  discharge  a  legal  tax  to  a  collector.  This  he  said, 
be  thou<^hl,  could  not  be  done. — To  pay  the  tribute  actually  de- 
inanded  of  Peter  and  his  Master  at  Capernaum,  or  the  taxes  fig- 
uratively alluded  to  as  having  the  stamp  of  Cesar  on  the  coins 
were  simple  actions  necessary  in  civil  society  to  support  gov- 
eriiment  on  the  part  of  those  who  demanded,  as  well  as  those 
who  paid  it,  without  any  reference  or  implication  whatever, 
whether  Jesus  was  the  Messiah  or  not ;  neither  was  the  money 
demanded  with  an  intent  that  the  payment  should  be  consider- 
ed and  taken  advantage  of  as  evidence  of  a  denial  of  Christ  be- 
fore D)en  ;  or  as  evidence  that  the  man  paying  the  tax  was 
thereby  to  be  considered  as  obeying  man  rather  than  God.  So, 
in  the  present  ca^ie,  under  a  militia  law  where  citizens  are  called 
upon  to  learn  the  military  art  by  exercising  and  mancBUvring 
with  arms  in  their  hands  a  certain  number  of  days  in  the  year, 
or  to  pay  a  small  sum  of  money  to  compensate  those  who  do, 
and  thereby  to  be  exenopttd  ihemselves,  the  sole  object  of  the 
Legislature  is  to  provide  i'jr  national  de^t^nce,  and  the  Judge 
jaidhe  thought  national  defence,  and  consequently,  a  prepara- 
tion for  it,  could  not,  on  any  rational  construction  of 
scripture,  be  looked  upon  as  an  action  forbid  by  the  laws  of 
Christ's  kingdom.  These  and  such  governmental  requisitions 
necessary  for  its  support  are  altogether  different  from  the  requi- 
tiiions  made  by  the  Roman  government  through  the  empire,  in 
after  persecutions  ;  when  christians  were  called  upon  to  do  some 
act,  such  as  throwing  an  hand/ul  of  salt  into  afire  on  a  heatfien 
attar,  or  offeriiig  a  sacrifice,  or  bowing  to  the  image  of  the  emperor ^ 
all  which  were  demanded,  and  it  was  expected  they  were  to  be 
performed  intentionally  as  plenary  evidence  of  a  denial  of 
Christ  before  men  ;  and  a  willingness  to  obey  man  rather  than 
God  ;  and  which  were  prescribed  as  the  only  means  of  saving 
their  live?  and  their  worldly  estate.  On  the  foregoing  principles 


197 

arid  considerations,  the  Judge  said,  when  he  heard  of  a  Quakery 
Baptists,  Methodist,  Unitarian  or  any  other  denomination  object- 
ing to  a  tax,  legally  made,  to  support  a  minister,  or  to  exempt 
from  military  duty,  on  ihe  ground  of  conscience  and  as  disciple$ 
of  Jesus  Christy  he  could  not,  after  the  most  serious  and  deliber- 
ate investigation  of  the  subject,  but  think  they  entertained  very 
mistaken  notions  oi conscience ^  and  that  their  views  of  religiotj 
and  civil  intercourse  were  very  much  confused.  In  this  opin 
ion,  however,  he  did  not  mean  to  call  their  sincerity  in  question. 
For  he  was  perfectly  satisfied,  from  philosophical  considerations 
and  history,  that  sincerity^  might,  by  habit,  become  associated 
wi(h  error  as  well  as  with  truth.  The  Judge  then  observed,  he 
wished  it  to  be  expressly  understood  by  the  Convention,  that  he 
did  not  mean  to  oppose  the  exemption  of  Quakers,  and  all  his 
observations  and  reasoning  were  intended  to  oppose  the  allow- 
anoe  of  the  exemption  on  the  ground  o^ conscience ,  as  had  been 
contended  for  by  some  of  several  denominations — -And  so  far  he 
thought  both  reason  and  scripture  supported  him. 

There  was  another  ground  on  which  he  was  clearly  of  opin- 
ion the  sect  of  Quakers  might  claim  an  exemption  ;  which  was 
that  their  society,  as  a  sort  of  religious  government  peculiar  to 
themselves,  did  render  to  the  government  of  the  State  an  equiv- 
alent for  military  duty, in  that  they  always  took  care  to  have  no 
poor  people,Gr  if  they  had  any,the3^  maintained  them  themselves. 
He  had  never  heard  of  a  pauper  Quaker  being  maintained  by  a 
town.  He  was  inclined  to  think  their  christian  principles  had 
such  an  influence  on  their  hearts  as  to  lead  them  to  provide  for, 
aid  and  assist  one  another  in  all  the  arts  of  useful  living  so  as  to 
preclude  what  is  commonly  called  pauperism.  He  said  the  qua- 
kers  have  always  been  known  and  distinguished  as  a  body  from 
all  other  people,  as  much  as  the  followers  of  Christ  were  in  the 
apostolic  age  ;  and  they  are  now  equally  distinguished  as  indi- 
viduals and  a  society.  Wlien  it  is  proved  that  a  person  is  of  that 
denomination,  it  follows  of  consequence  that  h.e  is  opposed  to 
war  ;  (here  is  no  need  of  his  making  a  declaration  ofhis^cr- 
sonal  conscience ,  he  believed  it  to  be  amalgamated  in  theircom- 
mon  creed  ;  and  this  he  believed  could  not  be  said  of  any  other 
?ecl  and  society  in  the  Commonwealth.  Though  he  believed 
the  Moravians,  or  united  brethren  as  they  are  called,  had  made 
it  an  article  of  their  creed,  not  to  fight.  But  he  knew  none  of 
that  sect  in  the  State. 

He  continued,   that  it  was  suggested  lo  him  at   the  momrn^ 
17* 


198 

ihat  the  Quakers  educated  their  own  children  and  had  very  lit- 
(\e  or  no  benefit  from  the  town  schools,  though  they  were  gener- 
ally taxed  for  that  purpose.  He  knew  this  to  be  the  case  in  some 
large  towns  where  there  were  many  of  that  denomination  living 
compactly,  but  he  had  not  heard  how  it  was  in  the  country 
towns. 

He  added,  whenever  any  other  sect  of  christians  should  be- 
come embodied  and  distinguished  as  the  Quakers  are,  and  af- 
ford the  same  evidence  from  their  known  principles  and  practice 
that  war  was  their  aversion  and  like  them  in  consequence  of 
their  principles  render  an  equivalent,  he  should  be  ready  to 
vote  Iheir  exemption,  as  he  novr  was  that  of  the  Quakers.  But 
it  must  not  be  slo  hypocritical  conscience ;  or  where  individuals, 
here  and  there,  sometimes  of  one  denomination,  sometimes  of 
another,  and  about  as  often  of  no  fixed  state  of  religious  worship 
whatever,  start  up,  in  times  of  a  national  war,  or  when  taxes 
bear  heavily  on  the  community,  and  proclaim  they  cannot  in  con* 
science  meet  in  a  militia  company,  and  their  consciences  tell 
them  they  ought  not  to  pay  an  exemption  tax,  or  a  parochial 
tax,  he  was  ready  to  acknowledge,  he  had  very  little  faith  in 
such  time  servijig  consciences.  And  he  said  he  could  not  re- 
frain from  observing  that  these  kinds  oNender  consciences,  of  late, 
seemed  to  increase,  and  extended  to  almost  every  requisition  of 
Government. — ^He  had  lately  known  some  to  claim  an  exemp- 
tion from  acting  as  jurors  in  capital  trials,  on  the  ground  of  con- 
ccieyitious  scrvples  ;  and  another  who  did  not  see  his  way  clear 
(o  take  the  oath  or  affirmation  of  a  grand  juror,  merely  because 
it  was  impressed  on  his  mind  that  he  could  do  more  good  than 
by  spend  mg  his  time  that  way.  These  kind  of  consciences,  he 
!iaid,  sluud  in  need  of  instruction. 

Cul   Atherteii,  proposed  to  exempt    the   militia  froai.a  poll 

Mr.  iiall  said,  this  would  bear  very  unequal  upon  poor, 
rompared  with  rich  towns.  Il  had  been  observed  that  it  would 
opeiale  unequally,  because  ihtre  are  mapy  who  are  now  forty 
hve  years  of  a;;e,  and  have  served  out  their  timQ  in  the  militia 
and  will  have  to  pay  their  proportion  of  a  tax.  This  is  true,  but 
febali  v^e,  tur  this  reason,  continue  to  do  wrong  ?  Let  us  be  the 
first  Slate  to  pay  the  militia.  1  hope  it  will  pass  and  so  render 
the  1  urdons  equal. 

Col.  Moore,  of  Clipton,  expressed  himself  in  favor  of  eqiializ- 
ir:g  the  burdens  of  the  people.  The  Convei^tjon  adjourne.4 
■'V.;!  out  cemin^  to  a  dcci?iou» 


199 

AFTEILYOOM'.—The  motion  to  strike  out  the  6lh  section 
being  still  under  consideration,  Mr.  Hall  so  varied  his  motion, 
as  not  to  strike  out,  but  add  to  the  section,  '«  and  the  militia 
required  by  law  to  bear  arms  shall  have  a  reasonable  compen- 
sation for  their  services  ;**  and  moved  to  have  the  vote  on  its 
acceptance  taken  by  yeas  and  nays.  This  motion  v^as  negativ- 
ed.    The  requisite  number  not  rising  in  favor. 

The  main  question  was  then  put  on  accepting  the  aaoend- 
ment,  and  decided  in  the  negative,  74  to  124. 

Col.  Alherton  then  moved  to  strike  out  the  section  and  substi- 
tute the  following  : — "  No  person  of  the  age  of  eighteen  and 
under  the  age  of  forty  five  years  shall  be  exempted  from  the 
performance  of  duty  in  the  militia,  excepting  the  Justices  of  the 
Supreme  Judicial  Court,  officers  of  the  militia  who  have  been 
superseded  or  honorably  discharged,  and  such  olher  persons  as 
are  or  may  be  exempted  by  the  laws  of  the  United  States,  un- 
less he  shall  pay  an  equivalent,  which  said  equivalent  shall  be 
paid  to  such  officers  as  a  fund  for  clothing  and  equipping  the  mi- 
litia and  apportioned  in  such  manner  as  the  Legislature  of  the 
State  may  direct." 

Col.  Alherton.  It  will  be  perceived  by  this  section,  that  aliho' 
it  seems  to  purport  that  ceitain  civil  officers  shall  not  be  exempt- 
ed from  military  duty — yet,  on  a  closer  examination,  it  will  be 
found  to  mea«  only,  that  such  persons  shall  not  be  exempted  by 
reason  of  holding  any  civil  office,  but  for  any  other  reason,  or 
without  any  reason  the  Legislature  may  at  its  pleasure  create 
exemptions.  This  will  not  be  defied  to  be  the  fair  construc- 
tion of  the  section  now  before  the  Convention.  Sir,  I  am  alto- 
gether opposed  to  leaving  this  extensive  power  over  such  a  nu- 
merous body  of  our  fellow  citizens  in  the  hands  of  the  Legisla- 
ture. I  am  opposed  to  it,  because  we  have  already  felt  the 
direful  efiects  of  the  unrestrained  exercise  of  this  power  by  the 
legislature  of  Massacliusetts— -It  is  our  business  to  protect  equal- 
ly the  rights  of  all,  and  so  to  guard  them  by  the  Constitution 
that  the  Legislature  cannot  violate  them  without  transcending 
their  aulhorityo  Sir,  permit  me  to  read  the  long  list  of  exempt- 
tions  which  now  exist  in  this  State,  and  thst  too  under  a  con- 
stitution, which  it  is  expressly  declared  in  the  bill  of  rights, 
^*  that  each  one  shall  give  his  personal  services  or  pay  an  equiv- 
alent when  necessary  ;" — perhaps,  not  the  precise  words  but 
their  import.  (He  then  read  the  list  of  exemptions.)  I  shall 
h^'m  with  those  officers  who  enjoy  salaries,     Why«  Sir,  shouliJ 


200 

^cytjot  be  enrolled  in  Ihe  militia — why  not  perform  military 
duty  or  pay  an  equivalent  for  the  use  and  benefit  of  those  who 
do  ?  It  costs  the  poor  and  laboring  class  of  the  community  who 
chiefly  compose  the  militia,  at  least  12  dollars  perann.  for  each 
man — Is  any  other  class  of  citizens  taxed,  thus  ?  No,Sir — where 
then  fs  the  justice  of  it?  Why  not  equalize  the  burden  ?  We 
next  come  to  a  host  of  justices  of  Ihe  peace,  no  less  than  2500  ; 
enough  Sir  to  form  an  army — and  for  physical  strength  and  in- 
telligence, the  fittest  subjects  in  the  State  to  fill  the  ranks  of  the 
militia — Sir,  I  would  compel  these  men  to  perform  military  du* 
ty — I  would  so  raise  the  character  of  the  militia  that  it  should  be 
considered  disgraceful  not  to  be  enrolled  in  it. 

I  am  aware,  Sir,  that  strong  da i.ns  for  exemption  will  be  put 
in  by  that  class  of  society  called  "  Friends  or  Quakers'* — That 
argumenis  will  be  produced  in  their  favor  on  account  of  sup- 
porting their  own  schools  and  their  own  paupers.  But,  if  we 
go  on  to  exempt  all  those  conscientiously  scrupulous  of  bearing 
arms,  what  will  become  of  our  defence  ? 

I  believe,  Sir,  that  every  man  can  take  the  oath  or  affirmation 
prescribed  by  this  Constitution  with  as  much  propriety  as  can  a 
Quaker,  because  all  men  are  conscientiously  scrupulous  about 
taking  the  lives  of  others.  Yet  the  state  of  society  and  the 
practices  of  the  world  require  it  in  self  defence  and  for  the  pres- 
ervation of  our  rights  and  liberties. 

It  has  been  a  fashionable  practice,  to  scoff  at  the  militia  and 
to  undervalue  their  services — Sir,  they  have  done  their  full 
share  towards  exalting  the  character  of  their  country — Shall  I 
direct  your  attention  to  the  events  of  the  revolutionary  war — 
Who  but  the  militia,  the  poor  despised  and  degraded  militia, 
won  our  independence  ?  Who  in  the  late  war  beat  back  the 
British  at  Baltimore  ?  Who  were  the  conquerors  at  New-Or- 
leans? Who  twice  repulsed  and  finally  der(??.ted  the  conquer- 
ors of  Waterloo  ?  1  answer  the  militia.  The  battle  was  scarce- 
ly ended,  wlien  our  militia  men  were  seen  passing  to  the  battle 
ground  with  retreshments  lor  the  British  wounded. and  with  that 
humanity  which  distinguishes  while  it  exalts  the  character  of  the 
generous  conqueror,  brought  the  wounded,  under  a  fire  still  kept 
up  by  the  enemy,  within  our  own  lines.  An  instance  of  heroic 
gallantry  unequalled  in  the  days  of  ancient  chivalry. 

Let  us  then  protect  the  rights  of  this  estimable  class  of  our 
fellow-citizens — and  let  those  rights  be  defined  in  this  Constitu- 
tion.    A*  to  axeniption^  it  is  our  duty  to    prevent  them,  and  to 


20] 

.>iripel,  ihe  services  of  every  citizen  not  exempted  by  laws  of 
aie  United  States,  or  the  payment  of  a  just  equivalent  to  be  ap- 
propjiated  to  tlie  purpose  ol" uniforming  and  equipping  the  whole 
uiililia  of  the  Stale. 

I'iiis  amendment  was  lost,  101  to  123. 

Coi.  Atherton  gave  notice  that  be  should  move  for  a  reconsid- 
era  lion. 

Rev.  Mr.  Francis  now  moved  to  amend  by  striking  out  th« 
section  and  inserting/*  Persons  whose  religious  sentiments  for- 
bid their  engagiwg  in  war  may  be  exempted  from  military  duly, 
but  no  person  except  the  Jnsiices  of  the  Supreme  Judicial  Court 
shall  be  exempted  by  reason  of  holding,  or  having  held,  any  civ- 
il office  under  the  State  wiihuut  paying  an  etjuivaient." 

Mr  Eraery.  Mr.  President — with  the  most  profound  resf?ect 
for  the  sect  c^Jled  Q^uakers  and  a  disposition  to  give  thet^n  all 
they  are  entitled  to.  1  am  entirely  opposed  to  that  part  of  tbe 
section  which  gc>^s  to  exempt  them  from  paying  an  equivalent. 
1  am  opposed  to  i>iSir,  on  the  ground  ibat  it  is  wbojiy  decep- 
tive— holding  out  a  hopa^vvhicb  will  certainly  deceive  them. 
As  ft i5  expressed  they  mf/^/Tjeeueif^fkHl-froTT]  military  duty,  if 
we  say  any  thing  let  it  be  shalL  But,  Sir,  1  have  thought  it  to 
be  one  of  the  first  principles  of  our  association,  to  require  the 
•personal  services  of  all  or  an  equivalent.  This  is  the  principle 
wliich  governs  in  other  Slates.  How  is  it  in  Pennsylvania  where 
su  many  Quakers  live  ?  All  that  is  provided  by  their  constitu- 
tion, so  Lr  38  i  know,  is,  that  ail  shall  he  required  to  bear  arms  ; 
and  if  any  are  exempted,  they  shall  t^e  required  to  pay  an  e* 
quivalent.  If  the  (Quakers  and  Shakers  are  left  to  the  Legislature, 
they  will  do  them  justice.  Will  this  provision  not  point  them 
out  as  obnoxious  ?  It  was  said,  wiih  a  smile,  that  the  Shakers 
contributed  nothing  to  the  increase  of  u^ankind  and  very  prop- 
erly refuse  to  aid  in  their  destruction.  But  would  not  the  Qua- 
kers bring  up  an  hereditary  distinction,  repugnant  to  the  consti- 
tution ?  It  is  not  out  of  any  thing  unfriendly  to  the  sect,  that  I 
would  wish  that  nothing  invidious  shall  be  held  up  in  their  favor. 
J  believe  all  (which  ihey  ask  for)  may  be  yielded  in  their  fa- 
vor. If,  on  account  of  their  excellence  in  agriculture,  the  arts, 
ke.  they  are  entitled  to  consideration,  1  am  disposed  to  make 
(hem  proper  allowance.  I  do  not  know  the  policy  of  the  pro- 
vision,  but  ihe  question  has  been  presented  to  us  on  the  ground 
ihat  they  pay  an  equivalent,  but  it  is  not  so  expressed.  They 
aie  excelleiit  citia^ns,  but  not  the  only  ones.     Th«y  have  been 


202 

bardljr  dealt  with,  and  I  should  be  gbd  to  contribute  to  relieve 
them  from  the  obloquy  which  has  been  in  the  first  settlement  of 
the  country  heaped  upon  them.  And  I  should  be  willing  in 
some  measure  to  compensate  them  for  their  benevolent  an<i 
useful  services. 

Mr.  Holmes,  If  I  have  been  so  unfortunate  as  to  provoke  a 
smile,  it  is  my  misfortunes  not  ray  fault.  It  is  not  my  intention 
to  provoke  a  smile  at  the  expense  of  any  denomination 
of  men.  I  do  not  believe  that  ridicule  is  always  the  test  of 
truth. 

As  it  regards  the  proposition  on  serious  grounds,  if  1  consider- 
ed it  as  being  deceptive,  or  holding  out  false  colors,  I  would 
strike  it  out.  For  I  hold  it  (o  be  an  indispensable  duty  to  hold 
out  no  false  colors,  in  this  instrument,  which  we  are  about  to 
present  to  the  people.  But,  Sir,  what  is  there  deceptive,  only 
to  say  to  the  Legislature,  you  may  exempt  Qjuakers  and  Shakers 
from  military  duty,  upon  paying  an  equivalent  ?  Jt  is  not  in 
ordinary  times,  but  only  in  the  last  resort,  that  they  should  be 
called  on  to  contribute  to  the  common  defence.  To  compel 
them  to  go  into  the  ranks  of  the  militia,  or  pay  an  equivalent, 
would  not  certainly  bring  them  into  the  State,  but  I  think  it 
would  drive  them  out.  They  know  that  fighting  and  paying  to 
fight  are  the  same  thing.  How  much  pleasure,  how  much  grat- 
ification could  it  afiford  any  gentleman  of  this  Convention, to  see 
a  poor  innocent  Qijaker  dragged  before  a  Court  of  Justice,  and 
thence  committed  to  prison,  to  compel  him  to  pay  an  equivalent 
for  not  doing  what  his  conscience  tells  him  be  ought  not  to  do  ? 
They  have  ever  stood  firm  to  this  principle.  And  it  is  only  in 
the  extremest  cases — when  the  ultimate  safety  of  the  State  i?  in 
danger — then  you  may  take  their  property  to  dispose  offer  the 
defence  of  the  State* 

Mr.  Francis'  amendment  passed  in  the  negative. 

Col.  Atherlon  presented  his  motion  again  with  an  altera- 
tion to  include  Ministers  of  the  Gospel,  and  leaving  cut  the  last 
•  clause  respecting  a  fund,  4'C. 

Mr.  Preble.  The  subject  before  the  Convention  was  one 
with  which  he  did  not  profefs  to  be  much  acquainted — nor 
should  he  have  troubled  the  Convention  with  any  remarks  of  hi?, 
were  not  the  subject  peculiarly  iBteresiing  to  a  large  and  highly 
respectable  class  of  bis  im«  ediate  constituents-  The  system 
of  exempting  from  militia  duty  had  been  carried  so  far,  that  the 
operation  of  the  militia  laws  had  become  very  unequal.    Tbose^ 


2®3 

who  wf  re  most  aWe  to  bear  the  burtheo,  generally'  bore  i>o  pari 
of  it.  To  rendtr  it  perfectly  equal,  every  muii  ot  saiiable  age 
should  perform  the  duty,  or  pay  an  equivalent.  It  was  in  its 
nature  a  persondl  .service.  Each  cjtizen,  by  peifurrning  that 
service,  coniribuied  hi?  full  and  just  proportion  and  no  more. 
He  did  not  consider  the  ordinary  iRilitia  duty  as  a  military  ser- 
vice rendered  the  State.  Our  militia  trainings  vver«  intended 
as  a  ichool  in  which  to  learn  the  niiitary  art  It  is,  by  the  consti- 
tution (»f  our  country,  intencJed  as  part  of  the  education  of  every 
American,  that  he  should  know  the  use  of  arms — that  he  should 
learn  so  much  of  the  art  of  war,  as  should  enable  him  to  render 
efficient  aid  in  defending  his  country,  whenever  his  services 
should  be  wanted  for  that  purpose.  From  this  obligation  he 
saw  no  reason  for  exempting  civil  officers  on  account  of  their 
holding  offices.  l(  other  duiies  were  required  of  them,  they 
had  also  other  compensations.  But  he  would  pxempt  the  Judges 
of  the  Supreme  Court  on  account  of  their  peculiar  situation,  as 
the  Court  of  last  resort.  He  would  also  t?ifcmp(  Ministers  ol  the 
Gospel,  a>nd  leave  it  in  the  power  of  the  Legislature  to  exempt 
those  who  were  conscitntiously  scrupulous  of  bearing  arms. 
VViih  respect  to  the  equivalent  and  the  disposition  of  it  he 
thought  it  had  belter  be  left  to  the  Legislature.  He  agreed  with 
the  gentleman  who  proposed  the  ariiendment  in  his  general 
views  of  the  subject,  but  did  not  feel  satisfied  with  his  propo- 
sition in  ail  its  parts.  If  such  modifications,  as  he  had  suggested, 
should  be  made,  he  would  then  vote  in  favor  of  the  amendment. 
For  as  all  were  interested  in  protection,  all  ought  in  gome  way 
or  other  to  contribute  to  the  support  of  a  system,  the  sole  de- 
sign of  which  is  to  ensure  that  protection. 

Col.  Moody  hoped  the  motion  would  not  prevail.  It  would- 
open  a  field  for  much  litigation.  Who,  asked  Col  M.  is  to  de- 
cide who  are  ministers  of  the  Gospel  ?  Then  all  officers  of  the 
militia  who  are  superseded  are  to  be  exempt  :  But  who  they 
are,  is  not  precisely  determined.  And  shall  they  be  discharg- 
ed from  all  military  duty  or  payment  of  an  equivalent  ?  1  did 
hope,  Sir,  that  the  report  would  pass  as  it  is.  1  have  had  some- 
thing to  do  with  the  militia,  and  am  disposed  lo  relieve  their 
burdens  which  are  very  unequal.  But  lo  say  you  shall  exempt 
certain  men  from  military  duty  is  not  necessary.  To  make 
them  pay  an  equivalent  would  be  sufficient.  It  was  enough  to 
say  the  Legislature  may  make  exemptions.  Why  we  should  be 
afraid  to  leave  it  to  them  I  do  not  know.     They   will  do  what 


26*4 

iL^j'oiJghi  to  (Jo.  I  hope  we  shall  neither  oblige  the  Legisla- 
ture to  exempt  any,  per^jon?  or  to. pay  arj  cquivalea^i  -    •  • 

Tbi^  niuiKip  was  luga  ivf^d,  124  to  103  -  jt: was  then  alt^i;- 
cd  5ir>  as  to  include  Qudkers  and  Shakeis,4T.  and  l«  si,  IJ^  io29. 

G«*n  Chandler  I  did  not  intend  to  lake  up  a  inuinent*iS 
time  on  this  subject,  but  feel  bound  to  make  a  lew  remarks.  It 
must  be  perceived  that  the  burden  borne  by  the  miJiiia  is  the 
most  unequal  tax  ihat  ever  was  imposed  on  the  community. 
You  see  a  man  not  worth  five  hunclred  dollars,  with  two  sons 
who  he  i^  obliged  to  arm  and  equip,  and  who  ?re  obliged  to  do 
military  duly — while  another  man  worth  fifty  thousand  dollars, 
is  wholly  exempted.  Others  have  conscientious  scruples;  but 
I  think,  Sir,  they  ougbt  not  to  be  t^xempled  without  an  equiva- 
lent. We  ougit  to  look  to  the  niilitia  (or  the  defence  of* the 
State.  I  will  say,  that  it  will  not  be  improper  to  impose  a  tax 
ol'hve  dollars  on  every  one  who  is  exempted,  as  an  equivalent. 
So  important  is  this  subject,  that  I  hope  gentlemen  will  take  it 
into  serious  consideration,  and  fix  it  in  such  a  manner  that  the 
Legislature  cannot  exempt  any  portion  of  citizens  from  am  equal 
*hare  of  the  common  burden. 

Gen.  Chandler  then  moved  the  following  amendment,  to  be 
added  to  the  section  : — '•  And  all  persons  borne  on  the  rolls  of 
any  company  of  militia  and  doing  military  duiy  therein,  shall 
be  exempted  from  their  poll  tax  in  the  State  and  County  taxes, 
during  the  time   they  shall  so  do  military  duty. 

This  motion  was  lost,  lOG  to  124. 

Mr-  Holmes  moved  to  strike  out  ihe  word  '*  shall*'  and  insert 
may^  which  passed  in  the  affirmative,  162  to  14. 

Section  6th   then  passed  as  amended. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  Holmes,  the  Convention  voted  to  adjourn 
to  7  o'clock  this  evening,  124  to  96. 


EVENING,     Article  WW-^Literaturt;   was    taken  int«' 
consideration. 

Mr.  Stockbridge,  of  North  Yarmouth,  moved  to  amend  this 
article  by  striking  out  the  ProiJiso,  which  was — ^'Provided, 
That  no  donation,  grant  or  endowment,  shall  at  any  time  be 
made  by  the  Legislature  to  any  Literary  Institution  now  es- 
tablished, unless  at  the  time  of  making  such  endowment,  ^/i# 
Governor  and  Council  shall  have  the  pozver  of  revising  and  tiega^ 
living  the  doings  o/  the  Trustees  and  Government  of  such  InsiitU' 
tion,  in  the   selection  of  its  officers  and   the  management   cj  iit 


205 

jhnds  i'^  and  insertinj*  a  substitute,  vv^jich  be  read  in  his  plac€, 
which  went  to  provide  that  the  Trustees, &c.  might  be  removed 
for  the  misapplication  of  their  funds. 

Mr.  Hohnes.  This  provision  does  not  go  so  far  as  the  com- 
mon law.  If  the  institution  misapply  their  funds,  you  may  by 
a  writ  of  guo  zQarranto^  issuing  from  ihe  Supreme  Court,  re- 
move the  Trustees  and  declare  the  funds  forfeited  to  the  Slate. 

This  motion  was  negatived. 

Mr  Shepley,  of  Saco,  moved  to  strike  out  the  words  in  ItaU 
ies,  and  insert  the  following  : — ''  The  Legislature  of  the  State 
shall  have  the  right  to  grant  any  further  powers  to,  alter,  limit 
or  restrain  any  of  the  powers  vested  in  any  such  Literary  In- 
stitution, as  shall  be  judged  necessary  to  promote  the  best  in- 
terest thereof." 

I  am  opposed,  said  Mr.  S.  to  the  provision  in  this  article,  as 
reported.  It  would  be  extremely  embarrassing  to  have  two  bo- 
dies of  men  controlling  the  same  Institution — for  the  Governor 
and  Council  to  be  looking  into  their  proceedings  and  negativ- 
ing the  doings  of  the  Trustees  and  Government.  I  think,  Sir, 
the  Legislature  is  the  proper  authority  to  secure  the  approfiria- 
tion  of  funds,  granted  for  the  purpose  of  education,  to  their 
proper  objects,  and  that  the  stability  of  such  institutions  should 
not  be  shaken  at  the  will  of  the  Executive  department  I  wish 
the  Legislature  to  have  the  power  to  see  the  fund.-  properly  ap- 
plied; but  having  done  that,  let  it  be  managed  by  those  to 
whom  it  properly  belongs. 

This  amendment,  said  Mr.  S.  does  not  give  so  extensive  a 
power,  as  manv  States  have  provided  for.  I  have  known  the 
Legislature  to  exercise  the  authority  of  annulling  f  covers  grant- 
ed by  charters,  where  the  misconduct  of  trustet^s  has  produced 
a  violation  of  the  conditions  of  the  grant.  I  do  not  wish  to  go 
so  far.  I  would  not  have  charters  taken  away  or  modified  at 
the  will  and  pleasure  of  the  government  of  the  State.  My  ob- 
ject is,  to  provide  a  security  against,  or  a  correction  of  abuses, 
and  to  restrain  the  governors  of  such  Institutions  from  pervert- 
ins;  their  powers.  Bui  I  would  have  them  act  independently 
in  the  periwrmance  of  their  executive  duties.  Literary  Institu- 
tions should  be  permanently  established,  in  order  to  enable  them 
to  nrianage  their  concerns  with  that  system  which  is  so  important 
to  the  attainment  and  perfection  of  {heir  design.  But  Legisla- 
tures as  well  as  Executive  Officers  are  continually  changing  and 
can  know  nothing  af  the  moile  of  study  and  discipline  pursued 
IB 


206 

in  Colleges,  which  if  subjected  to  therr  power  would  be  liable 
to  corresponding  fluctuations  in  their  plans,  that  would  frustrate 
objects  ofthfir  estal>lishinent. 

Judge  Driiia  Mr  President — 1  rise.  Sir,  in  support  of  tb« 
amendment  of  the  geutlein  in  from  Saco  (Mr  Shepley  )  Well 
fias  the  gentleman  on  loy  right  (Mr.  Slockbridge)  remarked  that 
this  subject  creates  no  inconsiderable  degiee  of  ejcitement.  I 
rejoice  that  it  does,  for  no  subject  has,  or  can  come  before  this 
Convention  of  deeper  interersi  to  the  Stale  ;  whatever  cun^titu- 
tion  we  may  form  and  ser)d  out  to  the  people,  however  excel- 
lent it  may  be  in  other  re^^pects,  unletis  it  contains  a'uple  pro- 
visions for  the  education  of  our  you'h,  it  will  be  materinlly  de- 
ilcient.  On  the  literature  and  literary  insiitutions  of  a  country 
or  State,  its  happiness  and  prosperity  greatly  depend  ;  and  not 
only  its  happiness  and  prosperity,  but  1  may  add,  its  respecta- 
bility and  celebrity. — How  often  are  the  most  merilorious  ac- 
tions, the  most  brilliant  achievements,  buried  in  oblivion  for  the 
want  of  a  recording  pen?  While  on  the  other  hand,  we  ofteo 
tlnJ  tiie  splendor  of  the  hero,  or  the  fame  of  the  patriot,  ob- 
^cu'ed  by  the  less  brilliant,  but  more  steady  flame  of  glory,  that 
surrounds  him  who  records  them. — Greece  had  her  chieftains 
2ind  her  bards  ;  the  latter,  in  perpetuating  the  deeds  of  the 
/i;r/7jcr,  gave  to  themselves  a  deathless  fame.  The  mistress  of 
the  world  had  her  Romuli  and  her  Cesars,  but  the  learning  and 
eloquence  of  one  of  her  citizens  has  given  to  Rome  an  imper- 
ishable glory,  and  to  Cicero  a  name  and  memory  that  will  be 
cheriajiied  and  revered,  when  the  splendor  of  her  mighty  war- 
riors shall  be  lost  in  forgetfulness  If  these,  then,  are  the  fruits 
of  literature,  is  it  possible  that  we  should  be  indifferent  to  a 
subject  so  inseparably  connected  with  the  vital  interest  of  the 
community  ? 

The  reported  article,  as  amended,  makes  ample  provision 
for  the  establishment  of  the  various  institutions  of  learning,^  ne- 
cessary to  the  public  welfare,  and  at  the  same  time  contains 
the  salutary  checks  to  prevent  the  abuse  of  the  powers  given  la 
those,  whose  duty  it  shall  be  to  manage  and  direct  them.  In 
a  free  government,  resting  on  the  virtue  and  intelligence  of  the 
people,  the  public  has  an  important  interei^t  in  the  education  of 
ihe  youth;  and  I  am  gratified,  that  we  are  about  to  begin  this 
great  concern  a<t  we  ouglit.  If  we  engraft  this  arlicle  into  the 
constitution,  we  shall  commence  this  work  at  the  foundation- 
Tbe  duty  will  be  imperative  on  towns  to  maintain /ree  schools^ 


207 

at  Iheirovvn  expense — these  primary  school?  will  be  the  nurse- 
ries of  our  great  men  and  distinguished  citizens — here  the  chil- 
dren of  the  poor,  the  unfortunate,  as  well  as  of  the  competent 
and   fveahhy,  will  be  associated  and  taught  together,  not  onlj 
in  useful   learning,  but  what    is  equally  important  ;  they    will 
practically  tear?)  the  great  principles  of  equality  and  suhordina' 
Hon,  and  that    merit  alone  is   the  passport  to  preferment.     Ex- 
perience and  observation  clearly  shew,  that  talents  are  not  he- 
reditary, and  that  greatness  is  not  of  lineal  descent ; — that  the 
brightest  geniuses  are  often  struck  out  of  obscurity,  awd  the 
noblest  minds  found  and  nurtured  in  poverty  and  wretchedness. 
These  genns  of  future  eminence  should   receive  the   .bstering 
care  of  the  public  ;  they  j,hould  be  taken    l.>y  the  h:uid  and  led 
in  the  paths  of  virtue  arid  learning  to  places  of  u?t'l'"u!nevs  and 
honor;  then,  instead  of  remaining    in   degradati(in  and  wai»t, 
they  might  become  the  pillars  of  the  State  and  the  ornaments  of 
society.     In  addition  to  the  means  of  support  of  these  schools 
derived  from  towns,  it  is  anticipated  that  the  wisdom  of  future 
legislators  will,  as  soon  as  the  finances  of  the  State  permit,  grant 
permanent  fund?  for  their  constant  maintenance,     it  will  also 
be  the  bounden  duty  of  legislators  to  endow  and  support  acade- 
mies, colleges,  and  other  seminaries  of  learning,  as  the   public 
good  may  require — and  also  to  shape  the  «i^eneral  course  of  in- 
i-iruo<ion.  and  see  that  nothing  therein  should  be  taugiit  contrary 
to  the  principles  of  our  government  :  and  it  is  also  to  be  hoped, 
that  wh.le  the  youtlj  at   these   insti'utions   adunre  the  martial 
deeds,  tlie  eloquence  and  classic  taste  of  other  nations  and  other 
titnes,  atsd  ga/.e  at  their  imperial  s^realness,  they  will  be  taught 
the   instability,   the  cruelly,  and    ingratitude  of  tf*ose    govern- 
ments, and  learn  to  love  tluir  own  ct)untry,  and  cheerfully  d<?- 
vote  ibem.-elves  at  her  call.      They  should    hear  something  of 
our  own  distinguished  worthies,  and  learn  to  emulate  their  \\tt 
tues  and  copy  their  usefulness  ;  then,   indeed,  would  learning 
become  the  handmaid  of  her  country's   happiness   and   glory. 
And  can  all  this  be  done  while  the  management  of  our  literary 
institutions- is   exclusively  in    the    hands  of  individuals,  whose 
views  may  be  adverse  to  the  best  interests  of  (be  government 
and  over  whose  conduct  the   State   shall   have  no  controliu)^' 
power?  I  apprehend  not.     Let  me  ask    what  inducement   the 
government   can  have  to  grant   funds,  unless  there  is  a  pledge 
that  their  munificence  will  be  faithfully  applied  ?  And  if  indi- 
viduals, who  found  and  endow  charitable  and  literary  establish- 


208 

Gie.Mts,  bave  a  visilorial   power  over  tbem,  why   ?hou!d  not  tiif 
Stat«  have  the  same  power  over  those  iuslitutions,  which  derive 
their  very  existence  and  support  fiom  it?  Hence  arises  the  ne- 
cessity of  placing  in  the   paliadium  of  our  rights  one  so  very 
essential  to  the  [)ro?[)erily  of  the  cofiicnunity  ;  and   this  provis* 
ion  is  contnined  in  the  amendment  now   under  consideration  ; 
^ut  1  an-  a\vare,  Sir,  that  i  shall  be  met  with  objections  at  the 
tl^ieehuhi  —  I  '•hall  be  told  that  our  seniinaries  of  learning  need  ' 
Duoe  cf  these  "Miards  and  checks,   that  they  will  succeed   best 
vvljen   least  shackled  with  State  regulation,  and  that  they  have 
prospered  when  the  State  had  nothmg  to  do  with  tiieir  govern- 
ment :  besides,  1  shall   be  farther  told,   that  if  abuses   should 
arise,  the  Judiciary   is  the  proper  tribunal  to  correct  them. — 
Tothe.'re  I  reply,  th'^l  however  prosperous  and  useful  these  in- 
stitutions have  been,  where  the  Stale  exercised  no  control  over 
them,  it  by  no  nneans  follows  that  they  will  continue  so ;  tbey 
sre  yet  in  embryo,  and  we  cannot  judge  what  will  be  from  what 
has  been  ;  if  we  look  to  their  origin  we  shall  ^{)i\  that  ihey 
sprang  from  individual  patronage  and  local  exertion,  and   their 
management  ha?  been  comniitled  to  their  founders  and  benefac* 
tors,and  they  have  !>njspered  while  under  that  wjluence;  but  when 
the  government  of  them  shall  go  into  other  bands,   influenced 
by  other  iiiolives,  mstead  of  a  single  eye  to  the  public  good, 
the  object  of  inquiry  among  the  Trustees  (v/ho  have  the  right 
to  perpetuate  themselves  and  successors  in  power)  will  not  be, 
who  will   most    benefit  the  if.stitutiun,  but   how  shnll   we  best 
?erve  our  own  purposes  by  litling  vacancies  with  our  personal, 
political,  or  ecclesiaslical  friends  ?  Establishments  of  this  kind, 
in  this  section  of  the  country,  are  yet  in  their  infancy,  and  we 
ought  to  provide  for  the  infirmities  and  decrepitude  of  age,  as 
well  as  for  the  weakness  of  childhood  and  youth.      The  absolute 
and  uncontrolled  power  given  to  Trustees  to  perpetuate  them- 
selves and  successors  in  office,  without  any  check  upon  them> 
in  some  future  time  will  be  considered  as  obnoxious  to  the  com- 
munity, and  unfortunate  to  the  institutions  themselves;  as  they 
can  never  expect  the  pubiic  cnunifi^^nce,  without  the  public 
confidence.     If  the  perpetuity  of  ofjSce  is  continued   without  a 
legislative  control^  favoritism,  instead  of  merit,  will  decide  the 
claims   of  candidates,  and   the   successful    recommendation   to 
office  will  be,  political  or  religious  sentiments,  or  family  con- 
nections ; — and  before  the  expiration  of  kalf  a  century,  it  will 
h^  found,  that  if  our  numerous  Boards  of  Trestees  are  net  con- 


211 

verseers^  The  latter  has  a  superintending  power  over  all  its 
concerns,  and  the  ultimate  control  over  its  funds.  There  can- 
not a  dollar  of  money  be  appropriated,  or  a  vote  pass,  without 
the  sanction  of  the  board  of  Overseers.  It  has  been  my  wish  to 
establish  such  a  connexion  with  \hat  Institution,  that  some  of  the 
officers  of  the  state  government  shall  have  seats  in  and  consti- 
tute a  majority  in  that  board.  This  would  give  a  sufficient  con- 
trol ;  a  control  which  would  carry  into  effect  the  objects  of  the 
institution,  and  support,  instead  of  destroying  it.  And  I  would 
not  grant  them  one  acre  of  land,  or  give  them  a  dollar  in  mon- 
ey, until  this  was  done.  But,  Sir,  what  is  the  object  of  this  a- 
mendment  ?  After  they  have  spent  the  money  and  squander- 
ed the  funds  designed  for  the  education  of  youih — then  you  will 
amend  or  alter  the  charter.  Instead  of  this,  I  woukl  take  meas- 
ures to  prevent  abuses,  or  furnish  a  remedy  less  severe  than  that 
proposed.  We  should  be  jealous  of  them,  and  keep  them  frota 
perverting  their  powers.  I  would  have  a  majority  in  one  of  the 
boards,  that  they  may  depend  on  the  people  for  the  approba- 
tion of  their  proceedings.  Which  is  the  best,  sir,  to  give  to  the 
Legislature  the  power  o{  extending^  altering,  Inniting  and  re- 
stroinin^  the  charter,  or  adnpt  the  proi)osition  which  I  have  of- 
fered to  prevent  the  abuse  ?  The  course  which  I  have  recom- 
mended is  safe,  both  for  the  College  and  the  people.  1  feel 
some  attachment  to  the  institution,  and  I  feel  a  disposition  to 
give  it  a  helping  hand  ;  and  I  would  place  a  guard  around  them 
that  they  may  nut  squander  their  property.  Of  this  I  am  cer- 
tain, nothing  will  be  given,  until  the  people  have  in  some  way 
the  control  over  this  institution.  But  I  am  not  sure  it  will  be 
safe  to  amend  the  article  as  reported.  Now  it  is  said,  that  the 
members  of  the  government,  whom  i  would  wish  to  introduce 
into  the  board,  would  find  it  inconvenient  to  attend  its  meetings, 
and  might  neglect  to  attend  to  their  duties  as  connected  with  it. 
I  wish  the  Trustees  to  have  a  boaid  at  their  back,  to  check  and 
revise  their  proceedings  ;  and  to  remove  this  objection,  1  would 
have  the  annual  meetings  of  the  Overseers,  held  at  the  seat  of 
government,  at  the  time  of  the  annual  meeting  ef  the  Legisla- 
ture, This  1  think  will  make-  it  safe  for  the  State,  and  if  not,  I 
can  devise  no  method  of  rendering  it  so. 

Mr.  Holmes.  Mr.  President— The  subject  before  us  is  sol- 
emn and  important.  To  provide  for  the  education  of  our  youth, 
**  to  rear  the  tender  thought,  and  teach  the  young  idea  how  to 
Fhoot,"  to  take  our  children   by  the  hand,  and  lead  them  on  in 


212 

the  paths  of  wisdom  and  virtue,  the  object  should  be  pointed 
out,  and  the  obligation  impressed  on  the  Legislature.  And  I 
congratulate  this  Convention  on  the  opportunity  they  have  for 
prescribing  a  duty  to  their  legislators,  which  if  properly  perform- 
ed, will  preserve  our  republican  institutions.  It  is  a  duty 
taught  us  by  our  ancestors,  and  I  trust  we  shall  be  so  far  impress- 
ed with  its  importance,  as  to  transmit  it  to  our  children.  It 
should  be  cherished  as  the  apple  of  the  eye. 

I  confess  I  felt  mortified  at  the  provision  in  the  act  of  separa^ 
tion  imposing  on  us  shackles  jn  relation  to  this  subject.  Sir, 
are  we  in  leading  strings  ?  Are  we  too  ignorant  even  to  be  made 
sensible  of  the  importance  of  knowledge  ?  And  does  Massa- 
chusetts there/ore,  undertake  to  prescribe  for  us  ? 

What  will  be  the  coBsequence  of  this  provision  ?  To  create 
a  jealousy,  and  withdraw  our  patronaoe  from  Bowdoin  College. 
I  think  the  government  of  the  College  are  aware-of  it,  and  will 
be  willing  to  give  up  the  odious  provison.  We  cannot  confide 
in  those  who  are  afraid  to  place  confidence  in  us.  Ought  there 
to  be  a  literary  institution  in  a  State  not  subject  to  the  control  of 
the  laws,  nor  subservient  to  the  government  that  protects  it  ? 
Why  should  this  institution,  mora  than  any  other,  be  beyond  our 
reach  ?  It  is  dangerous  to  place  too  much  confidence  even  in 
friends.  Having  acquired  the  power,  they  may  de(y  the  au- 
thority from  whence  it  was  derived. 

All  literary  institutions  should  be  placed  on  the  same  footing, 
and  be  governed  by  the  same  principles.  To  retain  the  right 
to  enlarge,  restrain,  or  regulate  a  charter  by  law,  is  safe  and 
wise.  The  people  aie  not  so  fickle  or  unreasonable  as  not  to 
be  trusted  with  this  discretion.  Your  constitution  has  provided 
sufficient  checks  upon  the  inconstancy  or  passions  of  the  people. 
Should  your  popular  branch  be  disposed  to  infringe  these  char- 
tered rights,  the  senate  and  the  executive  would  hold  them  ia 
reasonable  restraint. 

Why  then  should  not  we  have  the  control  ?  This  is  not  un- 
trodden ground.  Look  at  the  Constitution  of  Massachusetts, 
find  witness  their  cautious  reservations  in  the  diOerenl  charters 
to  Harvard  University.  Look  at  the  provisions  even  under  the 
province  laws.  Look  at  the  very  act  establishing  Bowdoin  Col- 
lege, which  contains  greater  reservations  than  those  contemplat- 
ed in  this  amendment.  [Here  Mr.  H.  read  pnitr  of  several  laws 
alluded  to,  and  particularly  the  act  establishing  Bowdoin  Col- 
lege.]    SiPj  I  see  no  good  reason  why  we   should  not  exercise 


209 

Yerted  into  political  junta  or  religious  hierarchies,  they  will  be 
twisted  up  into  indissoluble  knots  of  family  connections,  who 
will  consult  their  own  gratifical/on  and  interest,  rather  th^n 
the  public  good.  If  it  is  replied  that  the  judicial  authority  will 
correct  these  abuses,  the  answer  is,  that  these  are  evils  which 
the  judicial  authority  cannot  remedy ;  as  it  is  only  in  ca'^es  of  a 
violation  of  the  charter,  that  these  Trustees  will  be  amenabU 
to  that  tribunal,  and  as  in  these  cases,  their  judgment  would  be 
formed  upon  decisions,  received  from  a  country  where  their 
literary  institutions  are  differently  founded  and  governed,  and 
their  objects  in  some  respects  different  from  ours  :  theirs  being 
shaped  and  modelled  to  monarchical,  and  ours  to  a  popular 
government ;  and  these  decisions,  inapplicable,  uncertain  and 
contradictory,  would  be  unsafe  guides  to  our  Courts,  in  so  im- 
portant a  concern,  and  under  circumstances  so  mutually  dif- 
ferent ;  besides  a  decision  against  the  Trustees  operates  as  a 
forfeiture  of  the  chaiter,  so  that  instead  of  correcting  the  injury 
done  to  the  institution,  it  would  go  too  far,  and  destroy  the 
institution  itself;  this  remedy,  therefore,  if  obtamed,  would  be 
worse  than  the  injury  complained  of,  and  of  course  would  never 
be  sought.  By  the  highest  judicial  tribunal  in  our  country  it  is 
decided  that  these  literary  institutions  are  independent  of  the 
government  of  the  State,  in  which  they  are  situated,  and  which 
has  founded  and  endowed  them,  (whether  this  decision  is  pre- 
dicated upon,  and  better  ada[)ted  to  the  genius  of  the  govern- 
ment of  another  country  than  our  own,  is  now  immaterial,  as  it 
is  of  binding  force  throughout  the  Union)  and  unless  this  Con- 
vention engrafts  into  the  constitution  a  provision  to  the  contrary, 
it  will  be  of  binding  force  here  ;  and  then,  Sir,  may  we  not  be 
called  to  witness  the  same  scenes,  which  have  recently  trans- 
pired in  an  adjacent  State?  It  may  perhaps  be  thought  im- 
possible among  us,  that  a  lesn  majority  of  twelve  Trustees,  of 
one  of  the  most  respectable  and  useful  colleges  in  the  Union, 
should  be  found,  who  would  assume  to  themselves  personal 
rights  in  the  funds  and  their  management,  and  the  exclusive 
control  of  all  the  college  property  ;  refuse  to  submit  to  the  laws 
:)nii  government  that  protect  it,  and  deny  the  authority  of  the 
State  that  gave  it  birth,  and  by  whose  munificence  it  now  ex- 
ists ;  and  that  this  majority,  in  derogation  of  the  sovereignty  of 
the  State,  and  in  defiance  to  its  laws,  should  be  tolerated  by  the 
solemn  decision  of  the  highest  judicial  tribunal  in  the  country. 
K  all  this  appears  now  to  be    impossible  here,  so  it  price  did  la 


210 

the  small  but  patriotic  State  of  New-Hampshire,  whose  intelli- 
gent and  independent  citizens,  refusing  to  submit  to  the  arro- 
gance of  the  majority  of  the  Trustees  of  their  only  college, 
commenced  ihe  work  of  reformation'  in  its  management  ;  and 
although  they  were  unsuccessful  in  the  attempt,  yet  their  dis- 
cussion of  priBci()les  has  excited  a  spirit  of  inquiry  throughout 
the  nation,  which  will  not  be  extinguished,  1  trust,  till  salutary 
reformations  lake  place  in  our  literary  institutions. 

If  the  di^cision  above  alluded  to  should  be  in  force  among  us, 
and  our  seminaries  of  learning  should  thereby  be  rendered  inde- 
peiident  of,  and  without  the  control  of  our  State  government, 
from  what  suurce  could  they  expect  to  derive  funds  ?  And  how 
could  they  succeed  without  them  ?  They  would  decay,  like 
perishing  plants  in  a  barren  soil,  without  moisture  and  fatness. 
To  avoid  the  want  of  funds,  on  the  one  hand,  and  the  abuse  of 
them  on  the  other,  I  hope  we  shall  adopt  the  amendment,  which 
places  the  visitatorial  power  of  these  institutions  in  the  Legisla- 
ture, where  it  will  be  more  permanent,  and  less  liable  to  abuse 
than  with  the  Executive,  and  more  safe  and  satisfactory  to  the 
communily,  and  beneficial  to  the  institutions  themselves,  than 
if  they  were  under  the  exclusive  control  of  their  Trustees. 

Judge  Parris.  Mr.  President — It  is  with  diffidence  I  ap- 
proach this  subject — But  1  must  say  that  1  do  not  agree  with 
the  gentleman  from  Saco,  (Mr.  Shepiey)  as  to  the  extent  of  the 
control  which  the  State  ought  to  have  over  our  Literary  Institu- 
tions. I  am  in  favor  of  retaining  some  control  over  and  con- 
r>exion  with  them  ;  but  for  what  purpose  ?  To  prevent  abuses 
jn  their  management  of  their  funds.  If  1  understand  the  pur- 
port of  this  amendment,  it  is  to  exercise  a  control  over  their 
charters.  Sir,  I  will  stale  my  views  of  the  government  wl^ch 
ought  lobe  exercised  over  the  College — for  it  is  Bowdoin  Col- 
lege which  is  the  object  of  this  provision,  and  we  may  as  well 
name  it,  as  keep  it  out  of  sight.  1  am  willing  you  should  control 
Academies  and  Schools  which  are  endowed  by  the  State.  And 
no  person  would  go  further  than  myself  in  supporting  them,  and 
no  one  is  more  sensible  of  the  policy  ofgiving  them  all  the  en- 
eouragement  in  our  power.  I  would  go  so  far  as  to  compel  (be 
Legislature  to  endow  them  liberally,  and  then  give  them  the 
power  to  prevent  abuse?.  But  my  views  do  not  extend  so  far 
as  to  preserve  the  right  to  suspend  their  charters.  We  must  be 
incorrect  when  we  make  the  attempt.  By  the  present  charter 
ofBowduia  Col Ie.c;e,  there  are  two  boards,  the  Trustees  and  O- 


213 

similar  powers.  We  should  never  make  any  grant  of  mcner 
to  any  literary  institution,  unless  we  could  in  some  way  have  a 
voice  in  its  expenditure.  The  gentleman  from  Portland,  (Mr. 
Parris)  seems  to  be  alarmed  at  legislative  control,  and  is  appre- 
hensive that  our  interferenee  will  be  troublesome,  and  thai  it 
might  be  better  to  confide  the  visitatorial  power  to  the  Gover- 
nor and  Council — Sir,  i  prefer  the  mode  prescribed  by  the 
amendment.  If  the  College  at  Brunswick  prefers  to  proceed  on 
its  present  basis,  it  has  its  choice.  i  am  for  letting  it  alone, 
until  it  shall  come  forward  and  ask  for  aid,  and  if  it  will  couple 
its  request  with  a  relinquishment  of  this  odious  provision,  i 
would  grant  it. 

It  is  our  duty  and  it  will  be  our  inclination  to  protect  and 
foster  this  institution,  as  soon  as  it  shall  submit  to  cur  authority 
and  put  itself  under  our  protection.  Should  funds  be  granted, 
I  would  give  it  a  large  share  in  Benjamiji's  mess.  But  if  it 
throws  off  its  allegiance  and  claims  the  protection  and  patronage 
of  a  foreign  State,  I  would  not  yield  it  a  cent. 

The  gentleman  from  Fryeburg  has  alluded  to  the  doctrine 
established  by  a  late  decision  of  the  Supreme  Court  of  the  Uni- 
ted Slates.  It  goes  to  set  up  a  hlerdry  institution,  beyond  the 
reach  or  control  of  the  laws  of  a  State,  Let  gentlemen  be  want^ 
ed  by  this  dangerous  resull.  Let  them  never  tolerate  any 
povrer  but  that  of  the  Uniied  States,  wilhin  their  jurisdiction, 
that  shah'  be  above  their  control.  Tlie  time  may  come  when 
creeds  nay  be  establiihed,  seers  created,  and  parties  built  up, 
dangerous  and  destructive  to  the  safety  of  the  State  and  the 
liberties  of  the  people.  Corporations  may  exist,  with  power  to 
fill  their  vacancies  and  perpetuate  their  existence.  Against 
such  evils  we  ought  now  to  erect  an  effectual  barrier.  I  hope 
the  motion  will  prevail 

The  amendment  was  adopted  by  \51  to  18,  and  tke  article 
passed  as  amended. 

ARTICLE    IK. 

GENERAL  PROP'ISIOJVS, 

Sect,  1.  passed   with  an  amendment  in  the  form  of  the  oatfc, 
and  relating  to  qualifying  the  Governor  and  Counsellors, 
t    Sect.  2.     Gen.  Wingate   moved  to  insert   Quarter-Master 
Geheral. 

Judge  Thacher  said,  he  was  very  little  acquainted  with  mili- 
tary  matters,  and  as  he  was  against  wars  and  fighting  he  troub- 
led himself  as  little  about  Ihem — ^biat  he  did  aot  wish  to  see  me» 


214 

well  qualified  for  legislation  unnecessarily  kept  out  of  the  Legis- 
Jature.  So  far  as  he  understood  the  qualificalions  and  duties  of 
a  quarter-master  general  he  did  not  see  any  inconipatibility  in 
ihenj  to  the  duties  and  situation  of  a  legislator,  or  of  a  represen- 
tative— He  was  very  much  inclined  lo  the  opinion  that  a  man 
\Teil  versed  in  military  affairs,  as  he  thou<;ht  a  quarter-master 
general  ought  to  be,  might  carry  much  important  information  in- 
to a  Legislature  ;  and  such  knowledge  as  they  would  always  be 
desirous  of  obtaining  so  long  as  nations  should  be  disposed  to 
make  war  upon  one  another — He  did  not  see  how  he  could  do 
any  hurt  with  his  official  knowledge  by  being  one  of  an  hun- 
dred representatives,  that  he  could  not  do  as  effectually  by  out 
door  influence ^  though  he  was  not  a  member  of  the  Legislature. 
And  in  either  case,  it  is  going  upon  the  supposition  that  he  is  a 
dishonest  and  unprincipled  man  ;  which  he  was  not  disposed  to 
believe  would  very  oflen,  if  ever,  be  the  case.  Any  body  else 
might  be  suspected  and  distrusted  as  well  as  a  quarter  master 
general,  though  he  had  no  office.  For  his  part  he  observed,  be 
hoped  the  new  government  would  comcnence  with  great  confi- 
dence  in  all  the  public fundienaries — He  believed  that  "ta^as  move 
likely  to  get  honesty  upright  men,  than  a  settled  temper  oj  suspicion 
and  distruit,  ^  He  said  the  people  had  put  great  confidence  in 
the  members  of  the  Convention,  and  he  did  not  see  why  mem- 
beis  of  the  Conventton  should  suspect  there  was  any  more  rea- 
son for  guarding  the  people  against  electing  certain  officers  in(o 
the  Legislature  as  representatives,  than  there  was  against  elect- 
ing themselves  into  the  Convention — He  was  not  sensible  rf 
any  feelings,  on  the  occasion,  leading  him  to  propose  or  vo(e» 
for  any  article  that  was  not  calculated  to  produce  the  security 
and  happiness  of  the  people,  and  he  verily  believed  the  future 
Legislatures,  if  the  people  were  left  unfettered  to  make  a  choice, 
would  not  be  inferior  in  either  honesty  and  general  knorvledge  of 
legislation  to  the  Convention  themselves — let  the  Convention  set 
as  high  an  estimation  on  their  m.oral  and  intellectual  qualities  as 
they  thought  just.  He  was  against  all  exclusions,  except 
judges  of  the  supreme  court,  and  his  objection  to  their  election 
was  not  founded  on  the  common  maxim  so  clearly  laid  down  by 
Montesqui,  that  ike  same  man  or  body  of  men  ixho  make  lazvs 
ought  never  to  judge  under  dietn — But  because  they  had  labour 
enough  to  employ  every  moment  of  time,  whether  they  wefO. 
setting  on  the  bench, or  acting  at  home  a  little  while  in  vacation 
t«   improve   their  minds  to  enable  theoj    to  understand  better, 


215 

and  deeide  quicker  the  causes  that  came    hcfore  them.     The 
atlornc-}'  general,  boiicitfjr general, judges  of   the  inferior  court, 
disliict  jui'ges,  atlornies  of  dislrict.s  and  many  other  officer?,  he 
th«  u^hl.  had  been  excluded  more  through  the  want  ©fa  correct 
understanding  of  the  application   of  the    f-Tegoing  "maxim  than 
on  any  salutary  prinriple  of  legisilation  ;    he  could    wish  to  sec 
candidates  stand  on  their  character  and  good    l)»  havjour  for  the 
suffr-ges  if  the  people — And  he  had   rather  vote  ovt  ihe  rmhole 
clause  of  eocc fusion ,  then  vote  quarter-masters  into  it — He  asked 
what  iiurt  could  judges    of  probnte,   or  judges    of  the    district 
courisofthe  United  States  do  in  the  Legislature  ?  None  at  all — 
hut  these,  and  (he  others  before  named,  all  possessed,  in  a  great- 
er or  less  degrc  e  the  -'^enj   knowledge  and   iiiformutvM,  usually 
most    wanted  in    every  Legislature — He    wished    to   see  the 
State  of  Maine  exhibiting  to  the  New  Woild  an  example  of  lib- 
erality, (hat  he  was  eoi  fident,  most  of  those  people  who,  within 
forty  years  have  made  their  consti(u(ions,will  soon  be  willing  to 
follow,  and  actually  prefer  to  (heir  present  ones — He  continued, 
that  in  looking  over  the   corstituiions  it  really   seemed  to  him 
in  most  of  them,  the   best  men  for  legislation  zs; ere  iinnecessarihj 
excluded — He  asked  why  justices  of  the  peace  were  not  excluded  ? 
There  was  as  much  ground  to  suspect  iheij  might  be  influenced 
in  their  legislative  character   by  an   undue   expectation  of  gain 
wlicn  acting  as  judges,  as  any  of  the  officers  excluded.     And  if 
there  was  amj  cause  of  suspicion  in  eitiier  case,  he  thought  it  the 
strongest  against  ihe  common  justices  of  peace. 

The  amendment  prevailed,  and  sect.  2d  passed  as  amended. 
Sections  3,  4  and  5,  passed  without  discussion. 
Sect.  6.     Mr.  Knight,   of    Falmouth,   moved  to  add   to  the 
section — "  No  person  who  denies  the   Christian  religion  shall 
hold  any  office  in  the  civil  department  of  this  State." 

He  said,  we  require  an  oath  of  our  civil  officers,  and  wc 
ought  to  require  a  belief  in  the  Christian  religion.  If  we  wish 
lo  have  the  edifice  lasting,  which  we  are  erecting,  it  should  be 
tcunded  on  the  broad  basis  of  Christianity. 

Mr.  Holmes  said,  it  was  inconsistent  with  the  Bill  of  Rights. 
He  also  hoped  the  constitution  would  be  founded  on  the  broad 
basis  of  Christianity,  and  that  no  one  would  be  elected  into  any 
office  who  did  not  believe  in  its  benign  precepts  ; — but  it  was 
altering  the  system,  which  was  not  to  require  a  religious  test 
as  a  qualification  for  office. 
This  motion  was  lost. 


216 


Sect.  6th  then  passed  as  anrvended,  by  intertrng  the  vvortls 
*'  but  not  tixceeding  five  years." 

Col.  Alherton  gave  notice  Jje  should  call  up  his  motion  rela- 
tive to  locating  the  seat  of  government  to  morrow  at  3  o'clock. 

Ordered,  that  so  much  ol'  the  Constitution  as  has  been  ac- 
cepted by  the  Convention  be  commilted  to  (be  revising  com- 
mittee, and  that  Mr  Kingsbeiy,  ot  Gardinerj  and  Judge  Amts, 
of  Bath,  be  added  to  ihat  committee.  Adjourned. 

TUESDAY,  OCTOBER  26. 

Mr.  Thrasher,  of  Cape-Elizabeth,  moved  that  a  committee 
be  appointed  to  report  to  this  Convention,  such  laws  of  Massa- 
chusetts as  are  repugnant  to  the  Constitution  of  Maine  ; 
ivhich  motion  was  read  and  ordered  to  lie  on  the  table. 

Judge  Cony  submitted  the  following  resolution  which  was 
read  and  ordered  to  lie  on  the  table.  Resolved,  That  a  com- 
mittee of  l>e  appoinfed  to  procure  a  suitable  public  seal, 
and  ^}so  a  proper  device  for  the  arms  of  the  State. 

Judge  Green,  Chairman  of  the  Committee  appointed  to  take 
intoconHderation  the  apportionment  of  Senators  and  Represen- 
tatives ioT  the  first  Legislature,  made  a  report,  and  statement  of 
facts  in  relation  ^hereto }  which  was   submitted  : 

The  Committee  find  the  whole  number  of  inhabitants,  accor- 
ding to  the  most  correct  estimate,  which  they  have  been  able 
to  make,  to  be  as  follows,  viz. 

Frac- 


Ko    of 

Sena 

iions 

Ex- 

Inhabitants. 

tors. 

zmnt- 

cess, 

the  County  of  York, 

i 

in^ 

In 

50,291 

4 

!  0,765 

Cuniberland. 

66,043 

4      : 

5,013 

Lincoln, 

69.148 

4 

1,918 

Kennebeck, 

64.992 

3 

9,200 

Ojiford, 

33336 

2 

2,808 

Somerset, 

30,790 

2 

262 

Kancock, 

34,276 

2 

8,748 

Penobscot, 

19126 

1 

3,862 

Washir>gton 

13,076 

1 

2.188 

And  the  opinion  of  the  Committee  upen  the  foregoing  facts, 
is,  that  should  the  number  of  Senators  be  increased  to  twenty 
four  ;  justice  requires  that  four  Senators  should  be  apportioned 


217 

0  Kenntbcck,  that  county  having  a  fraction  much  Urger  than 
any  other  ^according  to  the  apporlioniuent  iiiade  by  a  former 
coinmitttie. 

Gen.  Chandler.  When  this  subject  was  taken  up  before,  I 
expressed  myself  satisfied  with  the  report  of  the  commilllee  on 
the  constitution.  This  was  founded  on  the  report  of  a  sub- 
committee, which  was  appointed  to  apportion  Uie  senators  upun 
the  several  counties.  But  upon  the  facts  slated  in  this  report,  I 
move  that  another  senator  be  allowed  to  the  county  of  Kenne- 
becti. 

Dr.  Rose  hoped  the  motion  would  not  prevail,  as  the  senate 
was  then  large  enough.  He  thought  it  belter  to  strike  out  three 
and  leave  the  number  at  twenty.  This  would  leave  a  fraction 
in  favor  of  York,  and  also  fractions  in  favor  of  the  small  coun- 
ties. 

Mr.  Dearborn  said,  by  the  constitution  it  is  provided,  that 
the  senate  shall  consist  of  twenty  three  ;  and  I  ?hould  prefer  to 
add  one  to  the  number ,  to  taking  one  from  the  large  counties. 
It  appears  by  this  report  that  Keniiebeck  has  54,000,  and  York 
ha-  50,000,  and  the  ioraier  is  surely  as  well  entitled  Co  [oui  sen- 
ators as  the  latter. 

Col.  Lewis  said,  considering  that  the  manner  of  getting  at. the 
members  in  different  counties  was  perfectly  arbitrary  and  that 
the  apportionment  would  continue  only  during  the  first  Legisla- 
ture, he  ho[)ed  no  alteration  would  be  made.  When  the  census 
is  taken  it  will  be  proper  to  apportion  the  senate  anew. 
.  Judge  Bridge  observed  that  ihe  object  of  the  provision  was 
only  for  the  first  Legislature,  after  which  a  new  apportionment 
would  lake  place,  the  princi[)les  of  which  he  hoped  would  not 
be  lost  sight  of  The  esiiuiate,  said  the  Judge,  is  probably 
larger  than  will  be  found  correct,  but  the  proportion  was  prob- 
ably right.  On  this  basis  would  it  be  right  to  give  four  sena- 
tors to  York  an(]  but  three  to  Kennebeck  ?  and  taking  the  num- 
ber of  delegates  from  each  county,  could  there  be  any  doubt, 
that  Kennet)eck  would  have  le.-s  than  its  proportion  ?  He  would 
not  take  one  senator  from  York,  but  he  would  have  the  number 
twenty  four  and  one  additional  one  for  Kennebeck.  He  doubt- 
ed not,  however,  but  justice  wc.uld   be  done. 

Judge  Cony  said  he  should  not  have  risen,  if  the  proposition 
had  been  to  lake  one  away  in.^tead  of  adding  one  to  the  senate  ; 

1  ut  as  it  is  to  add  one,  he  would  remark,  that  he  believed  twen- 

19 

i 


218 

\y  four  was  not  too  large  a  nuaiber  and  that   the   motion  ought 
to  prevail. 

C  J. Moody  said  he  did  not  rise  to  objeC  t )  the  propositi  n  but 
he  could  not  accede  to  the  statement  that  there  is  so  large  a  frac- 
tion in  Kennebeck.  He  thought  it  loo  large  by  3,500  ;  but  as 
it  was  only  for  the  first  Legislature,  he  could  see  no  danger  to 
assign  one  more  senator  to  Kennebeck,  and  hoped  the  uiotion 
would  prevail. 

Judge  Green  made  some  remarks  in  justification  of  the  state- 
ment made  by  the  commillee.  We  do  not  pretend  to  certainty, 
:vaid  Ihe  Judge,  it  was  impossible  to  attain  to  it — it  is  rather 
lonjecture.  But  from  the  best  data  in  our  possession,  we  be- 
lieve it  to  be  r.ufficienlly  correct,  and  it  appears  to  be  so  near 
an  equality,  that  we  were  satisfied  the  relative  proportion  was 
Bot  far  from  right,  although  not  perfectly  accurate.  Yet  we  had 
f)o  hesitancv  in  saying,  that  if  the  Convention  take  twenty  four 
tlr  the  number  of  the  senate,  that  "Kennebeck  should  have 
another.  Indeed  we  could  see  no  reason  why  York  should  have 
four  and  JCennebeck  but  three. 

Mr.  Hohnessaid  if  i)0  other  county  asked  for  an  increase,  he 
^houid  be  disposed  to  give  another  to  Kennebeck,  as  it  was  not 
easy  to  reduce  the  number.  He  thought,  however,  the  calcula- 
tion was  incorrect — that  there  were  not  300,000  inhabitants  in 
the  State,  nor  so  many  in  the  county  of  Somerset,  from  the  num- 
ber of  delegates. 

Gen.  Chandler.  The  gentleman  will  perceive  that  I  have 
not  been  very  anxious  as  to  Somerset  or  Kennebeck.  But,  sir, 
what  reason  is  there,  why  York  should  have  four  senators  and 
Kennebeck  but  three  ?  The  gentleman  from  r^lfred  has  asked 
how  can  Somerset  have  so  many  inhabitants  and  so  few  dele- 
gates ;  but  the  number  ofdelegates  in  this  case  does  not  de- 
pend at  all  on  the  number  of  inhabitants.  Certainly  I  shall  not 
be  satisfied  wi'h  York  having  four  senators  and  Kennebeck  but 
three. 

Mr.  Preble.  H  the  calculations  made  by  the  committee  in 
regard  to  th©  population  of  Maine  and  the  several  counties  is 
correct,  the  apportionment  of  senators,  as  it  now  stands  in  the 
constitution,  is  monstrous.  He  hoped  tb.e  Convention  would 
do  equal  and  exoct  justice  to  every  section  of  the  Slate — that 
\h(iy  would  allow  to  the  population  of  each  portion  its  equal 
representation  according  to  their  numbers  in  whatever  part  of 
our  territory  that  population  miglil  h-ipjien    to  reside.     He  vvaa 


219 

\\illing  genljeinen  should  have  Iheir  full  number  in  the  senate^ 
and  he  hoped  tha(  gentlemen  would  be  willing  that,  with  respect 
to  the  other  branch  of  tlie  Legislature,  justice  should  be  done  \& 
other  parts  of  tlie  State.  If,  sir,  said  he,  the  population  of  York 
county  is  50,291,  and  that  of  Kennebeck  54.992,  on  what  pos- 
sible principle  is  York  to  \i^s'cjhur  senators  and  Kennebeck  but 
three  ?  But  before  they  assigned  an  additional  ,stnator  to  Ken- 
nebeck they  ought  to  be  satisfied  that  &\in  had  the  requij-ite  pop« 
niation.  In  point  of  territory  thai  county  h  comparatively 
small.  At  the  time  of  the  last  census,  18 10,  ihe  population  vvas 
dense,  Since  that  period  it  was  well  known  there  has  been 
little  01  no  emigration  into  Maina.  The  tidecf  population  had 
set  in  anopjpositf  direction,  Maine  instead  of  receiving  acces- 
f^ions  to  her  numbers  from  oilier  Smtes  had  actually  loj^t  thousands 
tif  her  populaliion  by  their  emigration  to  the  west.  jN'ay,  more, 
(hiy  loss  of  popula'iiH,  this  emigration  to  the  west,  had  been 
principally  from  Lincoln  and  this  very  county  of  Kennebeck. 
Apply  these  facts  to  the  popuialion  as  ascertained  by  the  census 
in  1810.  It  then  consisted  of  32.564  iiihabiiants  The  calcu- 
lation of  the  committee  now  give  it  64,992,  making  an  iticrea'-e 
in  liine  years  of  22,4x?8,  or  more  than  76  per  cent,  in  10  years. 
Now  did  any  njan  in  this  Convention  believe  that  Kennebeck 
had  increased  in  tiiat  proportion  for  the  last  nine  years  ?  Did 
a  single  gewlleman  from  K»Mjne beck  bc!ie\eit?  It  had  I  een 
sometimes  jocosely  said  that  gentlemen  in  some  parts  of  Maine 
AY^re  good  at  calculation  ;  but  ihey  must  cerlainly  yield  the 
p:i\'j\  to  the  geiitleman  from  Kenne'oeck,  (Juifge  Brid_<i;e)  whose 
calculation  this  was  ;  for  never  did  Mr.  P.  see  any  thing  pro- 
fessing to  be  a  calcidation,  w-hich  could  come  in  cojrjpetilion 
with  it.  A  su!>  comuiitfee  frotn  the  county  had  estimated  the 
population  as  he  understood  at  about  45,000,  and  on  that  esti- 
mate  the  apportionment  in  the  consiitution  had  been  made*. 
WiJh  that  estimate  he  wassaii.-fjed  th.)Uij;h  he  believed  it  to  be 
full  as  large  as  the  actud  census  of  1820  would  be  (bund  to 
justify.  Even  this  he  thought  was  giving  full  credit  to  the  in- 
ternal resources  and  prolific  powers  of  that  very  respectable 
^^ection  of  the  State. 

Tiiere  was  one  other  consideration  to  which  he  would  call 
\he  attention  of  the  Convention  tending  to  show  as  he  believed 
Ihe  erroneous  nature  of  the  reported  estimate  of  the  committee. 
A  new  town  where  tlie  population  is  very  small  may  by  a  very 
small  en)igration  dDuhJe  its  p(^[)ulation.     The  satne  may  be  trtju 


220 

of  a  county  or  a  Slate  where  the  territory  is  extended  and  the 
populition  small.  Such  he  had  no  dou!)t  had  been  the  case  in 
the  new  counties  of  Somerset  and  Penobscot.  Bnt  it  was  Car 
otherwise  In  towns  and  counties  where  the  population  vvas  al- 
ready lari^eand  res})f"ctah!e  in  f)«int  of  number,  as  he  contended 
^^  as  the  case  in  Kenneheck.  Her  population  though  s})rcad 
'  ver  her  whole  tt^rrilory  was  comparatively  dense.  She  lost  ma- 
ny of  her  inhabitants  by  emigration  and  the  late  war.  fler  in- 
crease had  been  for  the  last  nine  years  the  natural  increase  of 
her  people.  Yet  this  Convention  was  called  upon  to  believe  that 
m  Iho?*^  nine  y^itrs  febo  hfid  jncreascd  ffum  32,064  to  M,902. 
For  bh  pari  he  mm\  require,  in  order  to  believe  It,  same  other 
evidence  that  fanciful  Rtatementi  on  paper. 

In  j'ubnriitiing  the  remark?,  be  had  not  done  go  with  a  wUh  io 
induce  the  Convention  to  refuse  another  senator  to  Kenncbeck, 
if  she  was  justly  entitled  to  an  additional  one,  He  would  be 
among  the  last  to  do  her  wrong,  if  gentlemen  would  satisfy 
him  that  ghe  had  the  requisite  population  be  would  most  cheer- 
fully vote  for  the  proposed  amendment. 

Mr,  Dearborn  rrmde  some  remarks  to  shew  that  the  estimate 
was  correct  Af>  respects  Kennebeck. 

Mr,  Holmes.  I  did  not  believe  we  should  get  along  without 
the  *'  Brunswick  Arithmetic/*  I  think  the  people  of  Kennel  eck 
'^re  very  ^ood  M  calculation,  but  I  think  no  ©tber  gentleman 
could  make  such  calculations  as  we  have  just  hearth,  and  I  now 
vise  to  give  due  credit  to  thegenlieman  who  represents  a  pnri 
of  the  county  of  Cumberland. 

JVJr.  Tbacber,  of  Saco,  said  he  tho*«ght,  that  unless  the  calcn- 
IrUiru)  could  be  shewn  to  be  incorrect,  llie  Convention  out;ht  to 
accept  the  nport  and  give  one  more  senator  to  Kennebeck. 

Judge  Tbacherth(^ught  there  could  not  be  54,000  inhabitants 
in  Kennebeck.  Yotk  had  not  so  mar.y  votes  because  they  did 
not  turn  out,  as  they  did  iu  other  conniii;?,  where  they  were  ac- 
tuated by  stronger  motives.  As  in  Portland  and  vicinity,  ma- 
ny voted  for  separation  who  would  have  voted  against  it,  but 
from  the  expectation  of  its  becoming  the  metropolis.  There 
have  been  many  erni;i;ratioiis  from  the  territory  and  he  did  not 
think  there  was  50,000  in  Kennebeck,  and  did  not  know  there 
were  so  many  iii  York. 

I\lr.  Dane,  of  Well',  made  some  remarks  on  the  mode  in 
which  the  committee  obtained  the  estimate.  We  were  satisfied, 
said  Mr.  D.  tout  we    bad  not  350,000  inhabitants ;    probably 


221 

307,000  was  as  correct  as  any  that  can  be  made.  He  did  not 
rise  to  oppose  Kennebeck  having  another  senator,  but  he  would 
observe  that  we  cannot  have  so  many  Senators  when  a  new 
census  is  taken. 

Mr.  Jarvis,  of  Surry,  said  the  Eastern  members  have  not 
taken  up  the  time  of  the  Convention — they  take  what  you  give 
them  ;  but  they  will  not  be  contented,  ifyou  give  another  sena- 
tor to  Kennebeck.  As  it  is^  they  have  64,000  inhabitants  and 
three  senators.  Penobscot  and  Hancock  contain  53,000,  and 
have  three  senators.  Hancock,  Penobscot  and  Washington  have 
66,000,  and  have  four.  They  have  half  of  the  territory  of  the 
State,  and  will  have  no  more  senators  than  Kennebeck.  Will 
this  be  justice  ?  No  one  can  say  it.  If,  as  a  favor  you  give 
one  to  Kennebeck,  I  demand  one  for  the  eastern  section  as  an 
act  ofjusttce. 

Judge  Bridge  said,  he  should  not  rise  again  if  the  basis  was 
understood.  They  did  suppose  the  population  of  Maine  a- 
mounted  to  the  statement  on  paper.  It  was  obtained  by  taking 
the  supposed  increase,  from  1810  to  1820.  This  will  not  hold 
good,  and  no  matter  whether  it  does  or  not,  provided  the  same 
proportion  is  given  to  each  county.  He  thought  the  population 
less  than  300,000.  He  had  made  the  valuation  which  be 
thought  correct,  for  Kennebeck,  by  taking  the  increase  lor  two 
periods,  and  making  allowance  for  their  falling  short.  Fie 
thought  the  migration  was  not  much.  The  increase  of  Kenne- 
beck is  not  larger  than  has  taken  place.  Somerset  would  more 
than  double  in  1820.  Kenfiebeck  had  more  than  doubled  in 
two  years.  And,  said  the  Judge,  there  cannot  be  a  doubt  but 
that  county  has  50,000  inhabitants,  and  is  entitled  to  four  sena- 
tors. 

The  vote  to  add  one  Senator  was  carried,  125  to  106. 
^  Mr.  Dearborn  moved  that  the  additional  Senator  be  given  to 
Kennebeck. 

It  was  then  Resolved,  That  an  additional  Senator  be  added, 
so  as  that  the  whole  number  of  Senators  which  may  be  elected, 
be  increased  to  twenty-four  ;  that  this  additional  Senator  be 
placed  to  the  county  of  Kennebeck,  and  that  the  report  be  so 
lar  amended,  as  that  the  county  of  Kennebeck  may  be  entitled 
to  send  four  Senators  to  the  first  Legislature,  Which  resolve 
was  read  and  passed. 

Mr.  Johnson,  of  Belfast,  moved  that  an  additional  Senator  be 
^'Jded  to  the  count v  ol  Hancock. 
J  9-^ 


222 

Mr.  Abbot,  of  Castine,  took  another  view  of  the  subject.  He 
said,  iT  ^'ou  divide  Maine  into  three  districts,  it  will  appear  that 
12,000  inhabitants  give  one  Seualor  to  York  ;  14,000  to  other 
counties,  and  to  us  there  is  one  only  for  16,000  ;  as  if  Penob- 
scot and  Hancock  are  added  together,  ihey  have  53^000; 
whereas  York  has  but  50,000.  It  is  of  some  importance,  not 
only  that  the  counties  should  be  equally  represented,  but  that 
the  different  sections  of  the  State  should  have  their  due  weight. 
Take  Hancock,  Penobscot  and  Washington  together,  and  they 
would  be  as  fairly  entitled  to  five  Senators,  as  the  other  counties 
to  their  proportion.  As  to  the  numbers  taken  by  the  Commit- 
tee as  the  basis  of  their  estimate,  it  will  appear  that  the  lower 
counties  have  not  their  proper  weight,  and  that  Penobscot 
should  have  the  additional  Senator. 

Mr.  Moody,  of  Hallowell,  wished  to  hear  the  opinion  of  the 
Commillee,  whether  Penobscot  bad  increased  beyond  their  es- 
timate. 

Mr.  Holmes  said,  he  was  of  the  same  opinion  he  had  been  be- 
fore. If  we  begin  to  raise  the  number,  it  will  only  open  the 
way  for  a  further  increase  ;  and  he  thought  it  better  to  dimin- 
ish. Mr.  Johnson  then  withdrew  his  motion  ;  and  Mr.  Hulmes 
moved  to  reconsider  the  former  votes  assigning  the  number  of 
Senators  to  be  elected  to  the  first  Legislature,  and  to  adopt  the 
apportionment  as  in  the  Constitution,  making  the  whole  num- 
ber of  Senators  for  the  first  Legislature,  twenty. 

Dr.  Rose  hoped  the  raotior)  would  prevail,  for  that  by  this  a- 
mendment,  every  old  county  would  have  a  fraction  against  it, 
and  the  new  counties  in  their  favor. 

This  amendment  passed  unanimously. 

Mr.  Dearborn  then  moved  to  amend  Article  4,  part  Sd,  sec- 
tions Iht  and  2d,  by  striking  out  (he  word  *'  three,'*  to  confcim 
to  that  amendment. 

Mr.  Preble  suggested  vvhetaer  three  had  not  betler  be  relain-  ' 
ed  in  the  .^^econd  section,  or  if  stricken  out,  i hat /re  should  be 
inserted  in  iu  room.  If  the  number  was  fixed  at  tvi'enty,  it 
would  be  impossible  to  jsjTpoition  the  Scnatois  upon  the  counties 
according  \o  iheir  population.  Some  discretion  or  latitude  ought 
to  be  allowed  to  the  Legislature.  There  would  be  fractions, 
and  large  fractions,  unless  the  Legislature  should  disregard  coun- 
ty lines.  But  if  some  little  lati-tude  as  lo  the  number  of  Sena- 
tors  were  allowed,  the  Legislature  would  adopt  tliat  number 
within  the  presciibtd  limits,  which  would  admit  of  the  mo^teX' 


223 

act  apportionment  upon  the  counties.  To  that  course  he  could 
see  no  objection.  He  was  only  giving  to  Xhe  first  Legislaturt. 
the  same  power  given  by  the  Constitution  to  subsequent  legisla- 
tures. 

ARTICLE  xv-^SCHEDULE. 

Section  1st.  Mr.  Dane,  of  Wells,  moved  to  amend  by  in- 
serting after  the  word  ''  next,"  in  the  second  line,  these  words — 
''  the  choice  of  Counsellors,  Secretary  and  Treasurer,  on  the 
first  Wednesday  of  January  annually,  shall  not  be  made  until 
the  year  of  our  Lord  eighteen  hundred  and  twenty-two  ;"  and 
further  to  amend  said  section  in  the  fourth  line,  by  inserting 
after  the  word  *'  time,"  these  words — *«  the  choice  of  Counsel- 
lors, Secretary  and  Treasurer  shall  be  made  on  the  last  Wed- 
nesday of  May  next,"  \s\iich  motions  passed  in  the  affirmative. 

Mr.  Holmes  made  some  remarks  as  to  the  reasons  which  in- 
iluenced  the  committee  in  fixing  on  the  time  of  the  first  meeting, 
and  continuance  of  the  first  Legislature.  If  the  meeiing  for  the 
choice  of  Governor,  ^c,  was  in  April,  there  would  not  tee  tim.e 
for  return  of  votes,  <^c.  if  the  first  meeting  was  earlier  than  the 
last  Wednesday  in  May.  And  as  the  Legislature  of  Massa- 
chusetts will  then  be  in  session,  and  there  will  be  commission- 
ers to  be  appointed,  and  other  things  to  be  transacted  between 
the  two  bodies,  it  would  be  best  for  our's  to  meet  at  the  same 
time.  As  to  the  continuance  of  the  first  Legislature,  it  will  be 
proper  to  extend  if,  otherwise  it  would  expire  in  January,  182 1  ; 
and  as  there  will  be  much  business  for  them  to  do,  in  organizing 
the  new  government,  4^c.  which  would  not  be  a  very  thankful 
task,  and  as  it  is  not  probable  the  members  will  be  re-elected, 
it  was  thought  best  to  give  them  a  longer  time  than  usual. 

Judges  Thacher  and  Dana  made  some  remarks  in  favor  and 
against  an  earlier  time. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  Dearborn,  the  Convention  resolved  them- 
selves into  a  committee  of  the  whole,  upon  the  subject  of  repre- 
sentation in  the  House  of  Representatives — Hon.  Judge  Thach- 
er in  the  chair. 

A  conversation  arose  on  Ihe  mode  of  proceeding  ;  after  which 
Mr.  Dearborn  said  he  believed  the  committee  were  desirous  of 
a  substitute  being  offered,  and  proposed  that  any  might  be  of- 
fered, in  order  that  they  might  all  be  considered  together. 

Among  those  which  were  offered  was  the  following,  by  Gen, 
WiHgate,  to  commence  after  the  5th  line,  2d  section,  axtr  4th,, 
.p.  1st  :■— 


224 

*<Anct  the  L^gisldfure  shall  further  apportion  the  Representa- 
tives, so  assigned  to  the  respective  counties,  among  iheir  re- 
spective towns,  as  near  as  may  be,  in  the  following  manner,  to 
wii,  to  the  additional  number  of  inhabitants  equal  to  the  number 
required,  in  each  county,  to  entitle  a  town  to  one  Represen- 
tative, fifty  per  cent,  shall  be  added,  to  entitle  said  town  to  a 
sec»)nd  Representative,  and  for  every  additional  number  of  in- 
habitants equal  to  the  number  required  to  entitle  a  town  to 
«lect  a  second  Representative,  an  additional  Representative 
may  be  elected  in  such  town  :  Provided,  hozvever,  that  no  town 
shall  ever  be  entitled  to  more  than  seven  Representatives — And 
towns  and  plantations  not  entitled  to  one  Representative  shall 
be  classed,  as  conveniently  as  may  be,  into  districts  containing 
a  sufficient  number  to  entitle  said  district  to  elect  not  more  than 
one  Representative,  and  so  as  not  to  divide  towns  and  planta-^ 
tions — and  when  on  this  apportionment,  the  House  of  Repre- 
sentatives shall  contain  two  hundred  members,  a  different  ap- 
portionment shall  take  place  upon  the  above  principle." 

Judge  Pat ris  said,  that  although  this  proposition  was  not  ex- 
actly what  he  should  wish,  he  still  thought  it  preferable  to  one 
reported,  which  was  very  unequal;  beginning  at  1500  inhab- 
itants for  the  first  Representative  and  requiring  4000  for  the 
second  ;  and  under  all  circumstances  hoped  the  committee 
would  report  in  its  favor. 

Mr.  Dearborn  stated  thai  he  was  opposed  to  almost  every 
part  of  the  report  of  the  committee  on  the  subject  of  representa- 
tion, and  to  the  schedule  annexed  for  the  classification  of  towns. 

Perhaps  (said  Mr.  D.)  as  the  subject  now  under  considera- 
tion has  been  again  brought  before  the  Convention  on  my  mo- 
tion, it  may  be  required  of  me  to  give  my  reasons  for  opposing 
the  report  of  the  committee:  He  would  briefly  state,  that  he 
objected  first,  to  the  inequality  of  representation,  which  must 
inevitably  grow  out  of  the  system  ;  second,  to  the  impractica- 
bility of  carrying  it  into  effect,  upon  the  principle  assumed  ; 
and  lastly,  the  fear  he  entertained  that  this  clause  would  defeat 
the  adoption  of  the  constitution.  Mr.  D.  then  stated  that  he 
would  prove,  incontrovertibly,  by  making  an  example  of  a  single 
county,  that  the  committee  themselves  were  unable  to  carry 
their  project  into  effect  without  a  dereliction  from  the  principles 
by  Ihem  established  ;  and  as  the  county  of  York  had  been  cited 
by  the  committee  as  a  specimen  of  accommodation,  he  would 
confine  his  remarks  to  that  county  alone.     Sir,  said  Mr.  D.  the 


225 

committee  found  it  necessary  to  apportion  twenty- four  members 
lo  !he  counly  of  York,  but,  Sir,  they  couJJ  not  provide  for 
choosing  that  nua)ber  without  breaking  down  the  very  principle 
by  them  established,  of  which  I  now  complain,  and  which  is 
rigorously  enforced  upon  every  other  county.  They,  Sir,  pro- 
vided that  the  town  of  York  should  send  two  Representatives, 
but  (he  town  of  York  is  entitled  to  but  one — falling  short  of  the 
number  of  inhabitants  required  by  the  bill  to  the  amount  of 
nearly  a  thousand  ;— and  that  thu  towns  of  Newfield,  Cornl^b, 
Limerick  and  Alfred,  should  each  elect  one,  when,  Sir,  neither 
of  those  towns  are  entitled  to  a  Representative,  and  the  whole 
four  together  are  entitled  to  but  two.  Thus,  Sir,  have  they 
overleaped  the  bounds  of  their  own  bill  for  the  purpose  of  ac- 
connnfiodating  York  with  three  Representatives  that  do  not  be- 
long to  them,  and  which  ihcy  are  not  entitled  to  elect, 

Mr,  D.  then  proceeded  to  give  his  reasons  at  large  for  oppoS' 
ing  the  2d  and  3d  sections  of  the  4th  article,  and  closed  by 
stating  that  the  first  Lt^gisla^ure  would  have  a  nnultiplicity  of 
business  before  them,  and  that  it  was  iwt  probable  that  any 
Legislature  would  follow  it  whose  proceedings  would  be  ^o  im- 
portant and  interesting  to  the  people  as  th :«t  of  the  first  choice. 
He  was  therefore  exceedingly  anxious  that  a  fair  and  etjunF 
representation  of  the  [)eople  should  be  had  in  the  first  Huu5e  of 
Jlepresentatives. 

Mr.  Shepley,  of  Saco,  approved  of  the  proposed  amendtnent. 
When  the  first  Legis^lature  meets,  said  he,  they  will  apportion 
the  Representatives  according  to  the  relative  population,  in  such 
a  manner  as  to  do  nr)ore  equal  justice  than  can  be  done  by  the 
section  as  it  now  stands.  J  think  we  have  given  too  much  in- 
fluence to  our  leelings,  in  considering  this  subject.  For  myself, 
1  have  heard  so  much  about  incunveniencies,  as  to  be  carried 
away  from  the  guidance  of  sober  reason.  We  have  in 
consequence  abandoned  principles.  That  the  majority  shall 
rule  is  a  fundamental  principle  of  republican  governments. 
From  this  we  have  departed,  in  the  system  we  have  adopted. 
Let  us  then  go  back  and  return  to  the  principles  of  justice.  Thai 
a  minority  shall  rule,  is  directly  repugnant  to  the  most  sacred 
principles  of  equality  and  right.  In  justincation  of  our  systenri 
of  representation,  examples  have  been  brought  of  similar  modes 
in  other  States.  But  in  these  States  the  two  Houses  balance 
eac-ii  otiier.  But  our  Senate  is  not  so,  it  is  founded  upon  equal 
and  exact  principles.     We   have  reported  from  the  principle  of 


226 

giving  to  an  equal  number  of  people  an  equal  right  of  represea- 
talion.  And  Iherefore,  considering  it  a  return  to  correct  prin- 
ciples— 1  hope  the  proposition  wili  prevail. 

The  Honorable  President  then  resumed  the  chair,  and  the 
Honorable  Chairnrian  reported — That  the  Committee  had  ac- 
cording to  order,  had  the  subject  committed  to  ihem  under  con- 
sideration, hid  iijade  some  progress,  and  asked  leave  to  si^ 
again  ;  which  Repor^  was  stated  Irom  the  chair,  and  thereupon 

Res'jhed^  That  the  commitle*'  of  the  whole  Convention, 
have  leave  to  sit  ag^in.    And  the  Convention  Adjourned. 

AFTERNOOjy.-^The  Convention  again,  on  ntiotion  of  Mr. 
Dearborn,  resolved  themselves  i-nto  a  comnraltee  of  the  whole, 
to  resume  the  unfi;iished  business  ofthe  committee,  by  103  to  97. 

Mr.  Herrick,  of  B.  said  such  floods  of  light  had  been  •shed  on 
this  subject,  that  he  was  dazzled  by  the  effulgence.  He  there- 
fore thought  it  best  to  begin  anew,  and  suggested  to  the  com- 
mittee, that  e^^ry  member  lay  feis  schetne  on  the  table  for  the 
examination  of  al),  and  that  after  a  day  or  two  they  should  de- 
cide on  them  severally. 

Gen.  Chandler.  Mr.  Chsirman — I  confess  the  observationa 
of  {}\Q  gentleman  have  some  weight.  I  o(dy  differ  from  him  in 
iliis  respect,  instead  of  light,  so  much  darkness  has  been  cast  on 
this  subject,  that  f  liiid  I  do  not  see  clearly.  I  confess  I  cannot 
hear  such  a  proposiuon  read  once,  and  immediafely  understand 
all  its  bearings.  Atier  we  had  adopted  the  rt^porl  ofihe  con\- 
mittee,  I  supposed  a  great  majority  of  the  Convention  were  sat- 
isfied. I  had  proposed  a  system  a  little  different ;  one  which  I 
thought  they  WDuld  have  been  hkely  to  adopt.  1  am  not  sure 
but  it  vv'^uld  have  been  better  leceiveJ.  I  supposed  that  those 
towns  which  would  have  one  Representative  would  be  satisfied, 
even  if  they  had  a  large  fraction  over,  as  it  would  compare  so 
well  with  the  system  we  have  so  long  been  accustomed  to.  It  is 
not  unnatural  for  man  to  wish  for  power,  nor  is  it  uncommon 
for  towns  to  wish  for  power.  The  large  towns  fear  they  will 
not  have  power  to  prevent  the  small  towns  from  combining 
against  them,  to  their  disadvantage.  But  can  small  towns  com- 
bine against  the  large  ones  to  effect  any  great  object  ?  No,  but 
the  danger  is  the  other  way. 

We  endeavoured  to  make  the  s}'S{em  reported  as  equal  as 
possible.  Gentlemen  say  it  is  unequal — one  town  sends  a  mem- 
ber and  another  does  not.     Was  noi  this  the  case  under  the  old 


227 

Constitution,  with  which  gentlemen  have  been  satisfied  ?  6ren- 
tletiien  in  large  towns  are  dissatisfied,  and  call  on  you  to  change 
the  system,  but  how  would  they  change  it  ?  They  lay  on  your 
table  a  proposition  which  it  is  said  will  a^^similate  it  to  the  Con- 
stitution oi  Massachusetts  ;  but  is  there  any  similarity  ?  I  do 
not  perceive  any  ;  and  it  is  so  complex,  it  is  difficult  to  say 
whether  it  is  belter  or  worse.  If  they  will  say  let  a  town,  hav- 
ing 1600  inhabitants,  elect  one  Representative — a  town  having; 
3000,  elect  two,  and  a  town  having  6000,  elect  three  Kepre- 
senlativeF.  This  would  in  some  measure  assimilate  it  to  the 
Constitution  of  Massachusetts.  But  it  would  lessen  the  repre- 
sentation, and  if  there  are  3U0,000  inhabitants,  1  doubt  whether 
this  would  give  over  one  hundred  and  fifty  Representatives,  ow- 
ing to  the  great  fractions  which  would  be  lost — in  this  way  we 
should  know  what  we  are  doing. 

iShhough  I  am  ?i^e  that  the  gentleman  who  offered  this  prop- 
osition would  nut  have  offered  it,  if  he  did  not  believe  it  for  the 
t>est  good  ot  the  vyhole  ;  yet  I  would  call  on  geiitlemen  to  judge 
Weil  what  they  are  about  lo  do,  before  they  adopt  ihis  complex 
proposition.  The  one  reported  they  have  had  several  days  in 
their  hands,  of  that  they  can  better  judge. 

Gen.  Wmgate  said,  it  was  impossible  to  fix  on  any  number 
v.'hich  ^.hall  tjegin,  as  it  is  apportioned  on  the  counties.  No 
number  can  be  named,  as  it  will  be  different  in  different  coun- 
ties. i\nd  why  should  it  be  necessary  ?  it  is  not  deceptive,  but 
may  be  easily  understood  and  apportioned  on  the  several 
towns,  when  the  apportionment  on  ihe  counties  is  made. 

Judge  Bridge.  I  rise,  sir,  to  state  what  is  my  impression  of 
the  effect  of  the  proposition.  Suppose  the  number  should  be 
fixed  at  1500  for  the  first  Representative  ;  for  the  second  2250 
more  will  be  required,  if  I  understand  it.  I  am  told  the  whole 
effect  will  be,  to  take  one  small  town  and  put  it  to  a  large  one. 
But  at  no  distant  time  the  effect  will  be  very  different.  When 
the  population  is  so  large  that  a  town  can  send  six  or  seven,  let 
us  see  what  will  be  the  effect.  To  send  seven,  15,000  only  will 
be  required  ;  but  by  the  report,  31,600.  When  we  arrive  at 
that  period,  the  effect  wiil  be  to  give  a  Representative  by  towns, 
to  one  or  two  only.  This  effect  I  am  unwilling  to  submit  to, 
and  prefer  adhering  to  the  report  of  the  committee. 

Mr.  Whitman  said  he  was  unwilling  to  be  troublesome  to  the 
Convention  by  offering  his  ideas  for  consideration.  But  the 
subject  (said  he)  has  taken  a  new  turn.     It  would  seem  we  are 


228 

about  to  drop  the  consideration  of  the  report,  and  look  for  an 
entire  new  scheme.  The  more  we  examine  (he  article  a?  re- 
ported, the  more  objections  shall  we  find  to  it.  It  speaks  of  an 
increasing  rain— .Whoever  heard  of  i.n  increasing  or  decreasiiig 
ratio  2  A  ratio  is  a  rule  of  proportion — a  regular  progression. 
An  increasing  rule  of  proportion  or  an  increasing  regular  pro- 
gression would  be  perfect  jargon.  We  here  n)ay  know  what 
we  me^n — because  it  has  been  fully  explained  by  those  who 
framed  the  article.  But  can  we  be  sure  that  our  meaning  will 
be  understood  elsewhere  ?  Will  posterity,  from  the  phraseolo- 
gy used  be  able  to  comprehend  it  ?  All,  but  we  who  are  heie 
assembled,  in  order  to  understand  our  meaning  will  have  re- 
source to  the  meaning  of  the  language  used.  We  say  that  a 
town  having  1500  inhabitants  shall  have  one  Representative — 
that  a  town  having  4000  inhabitants  shall  have  two — and  one 
having  7500  inhabitants  shall  have  three — and  so  on  in  this  in- 
creasing ratio,  for  every  additional  Representative.  Now,  Sir, 
let  me  ask,  in  what  way  will  every  person  out  of  this  body  go 
to  work  to  ascertain  what  number  shall  give  the  fourth,  fifth,  &c. 
They  will  gee  that  a  raiio  is  spoken  of,  and  that,  -true  it  is,  it  is 
called  an  *'  increasing"  ratio — but  the  word  "  increasing,'' 
making  it  nonsense,  ivill  be  rejected.  A  ratio  then  in  to  be 
sought  for.  The  numbers  given  bear  no  proportion  to  each 
other.  This  then  cannot  be  the  ratio  spoken  of.  To  find  what 
number  Is  to  give  ihe  fourth  Representative,  recourse  must  be 
had  to  the  rule  of  three,  properly  called  the  rule  of  proportion. 
They  will  say,  as  1500  is  to  4000,  so  is  7500  to  the  number 
which  will  give  tlie  fourth  Representative  ;  the  product  of  which 
will  be  20,000.  This,  then,  is  to  be  the  number  which  will  en- 
title any  town  to  the  fourth  representative.  According  to  the 
explanation,  however,  given  by  gentlemen  here,  it  seems  that 
12,000  is  to  give  the  fourth.  But  this  would  never  be  discov- 
ered from  the  langurige  u^ed.  There  are  many  other  parts  of 
this  article  that  are  equally  uninlelligil^U*. 

By  this  article  as  reported,  it  seems  mat  the  representatives 
are  to  be  apportio!>ed  once  in  five  or  ten  years,  according  to 
population,  in  the  first  instance,  among  the  several  counties  ; 
and  next,  among  the  several  towns  in  each  county,  according  to 
a  certain  rule.     Each  town  having  a  certain  number  of  inhabit- 

•  The  phraseology  of  this  article  was  essentially  altered  by  the 
•^vising:  committee,  after  the  making  of  the  foregoing  remarks. 


229 

ants,  say  1500,  is  to  have  one,  and  no  more  until  its  populatioM 
amounts  to  4000  ;  and  no  large  town  is  ever  to  have  naore  than 
seven.  Now,  sir,  let  us  suppose  a  case,  which  will  happen  in 
less  than  thirty  years.  The  town  of  Portland,  within  that  time, 
will  have  as  many  inhabitants  as  Boston  now  has.  The  county 
in  which  it  is  situated,  cannot  then  remain,  comprisiftg  the  same 
extent  of  country  it  now  does.  The  town,  of"  itself,  will,  as 
Boston  now  does,  furnish  business  enough  to  keep  the  courts  al- 
most continually  in  session.  It  must  then  be  as  Bo?ton  now  is, 
a  county  by  it-^elf;  or  with  but  very  few  tov^ns  united  with  it. 
Yet  your  representation  must,  in  the  first  instance,  be  appor- 
tioned upon  counties,  according  to  population.  The  county  in 
wh'ch  Portland  may  be  situated,  will  of  your  200  Repre- 
sentatives, be  entitled  to  at  least  twenty.  Then,  when  you 
come  to  apportion  them  among  the  towns,  Portland  must  have 
not  exceeding  seven.  The  two  o«*  three  small  towns,  (if  any) 
which  may  be  united  with  it,  though  their  population  in  the  ag- 
gregate might  not  exceed  two  or  three  thousand,  would  have  a 
right  to  elect  the  other  thirteen.  The  same  will  be  the  case 
wiih  Balh,  Hallowell,  and  some  towns  on  the  Penobscot ;  and, 
in  time,  many  others. 

But  suppose  Portland  should  be  necessarily  a  county  by  it- 
self; then,  according  to  population,  as  a  county,  it  might  be  en- 
titled to  twenty  Representatives  ;  and  yet,  being  but  a  single 
town,  it  could  send  but  seven.  And  suppose  two  towns,  ot'a 
population  of  ten  or  fifteen  hundred  each,  were  united  with  it, 
in  the  same  county,  tliese  two  towns  would  be  eniitled  to  send 
the  remaining  thirteen  I{epresentaiives. 

I  should  hope,  sir,  that  we  were  making  a  Constitution  to 
last,  at  least,  for  one  generation.  Indeed,  sir,  we  ought  to  look 
further  ahead  ;  and  calculate  that  we  are  making  a  Constitution 
to  last  for  many  generations,  it  is  not  enough  for  us  to  consult 
merely  our  present  convenience.  A  temporary  policy  is  not 
the  policy  for  Constitution  makers.  No  man  can  tell  what  will 
be  the  tale  of  his  posterity,  or  where  they  will  be  found.  They 
will  be  as  likely  to  be  found  in  large  towns  as  in  small  ones  ;  in 
sea-ports  as  in  the  countrj  .  Let  me  caution  gentlemen  against 
an  unreasonable  jealousy  of  the  large  towns.  It  may  serve  a 
present  purpose  ;  but  no  morlai  can  predict  how  soon  be  or  his 
children  may  become  the  victims  of  such  jealousy.  The  citi- 
zens of  the  large  towns  are  men,  and  have  their  rights  equally 
with  those  of  small  towns.  To  deprive  them  of  the  enjoyment 
20 


2ao 

of  which  is  tyranny.  In  proportiofl  as  Ihey  are  deprived  of  an 
equal  representation,  they,  are  slaves.  Why  is  it  that  you  will 
require  twice,  nay,  five  linoes  the  number  in  one  instance,  to  e- 
lecta  Representative,  that  you  would  in  another  ?  It  is,  you 
say,  because  they  are  within  the  limits  of  one  town.  Is  this  a 
sufficient  reason  for  disfranchising  any  portion  of  our  fellow  cit- 
izens ?  You  might  as  well  form  an  artificial  district  of  a  large 
extent  ;  and  say  to  it,  because  thus  large,  you  shall  be  depriv- 
ed of  your  equal  rights.  Large  towns  are  but  districts,  happen- 
ing, by  accident,  to  be  large  ;  and,  certainly,  it  cannot,  ration- 
ally, make  any  difference  as  to  the  rights  of  individuals,  wheth- 
er they  are  placed  in  large  districts  by  design  or  by  accident. 
All  our  embarrassments  on  this  subject,  originate  in  a  depar- 
ture from  the  only  proper  course.  Had  we  adopted  a  system 
of  districtirig  in  the  first  instance  no  man  v\ou]d  have  thought 
that  there  could  have  been  any  reason  for  putting  more  into  one 
district  than  into  another.  Our  work  would  ihen  have  been  sim- 
ple. Equal  right*  would  have  been  regarded.  But  having  now 
aelernjined  on  a  different  course,  we  ought,  at  least,  to  try  to 
render  its  operation  equal  and  fair.  If  every  town,  having  1500, 
is  to  be  enlitled  to  one  Representative,  and  cannot  liave  a  sec- 
ond, but  upon  an  additional  number,  it  will  be  manifest,  that  a 
large  proportion  of  towns,  having  the  requisite  number,  will 
have  large  fractions  over  tliat  number,  and  yet  short  of  the  num- 
ber requi'ite  for  the  second.  Hei.ce  there  will  be  in  such  towns 
a  loss  of  what  is  properly  termed  fractions.  To  render  the 
representation  equal  therefore,  when  a  second  Representative  is 
to  be  added,  it  is  admitted  a  greater  additional  number  than 
that  which  gave  the  first  should  be  requisite.  The  average  a- 
mount  of  such  fractions  should  be  taken,  and  added  to  the  num- 
ber which  gave  the  first  ;  and  this  should  entitle  a  town  to  the 
second.  It  wds  upon  this  principle  that  the  representation  in 
Massachuselts  wns  formed.  One  hundred  and  4^'ty  polls  were 
to  give  the  first  Represenl^^tive.  It  was  considered  that  the  av- 
erage of  the  fractions  lost  in  towns  which  had  the  recjuisite  num- 
ber to  entitle  them  to  orie,  and  not  enough  to  eritille  them  to  a 
second,  would  be  equal  to  fifty  per  cent.  They  therefore  de- 
termined that,  for  every  additional  150  polls,  i«'ilh  50  per  cen- 
tum added  thereto,  an  additional  Representative  should  be  giv- 
en. Hence  it  is  that  225  additional  polls,  for  every  additional 
Representative,  is  required.  It  would,  therefore,  be  correct  to 
require,  in  our  ajiportionment,  l!aat   for  a  second,  and  every  ad- 


231 

ditional  Representative,  an  additional  number,  equal  to  that 
which  gave  the  tirst  Representative,  with  fifty  per  centum  ad- 
ded thereto,  should  he  requisite. 

The  proposition  of  the  gentleman  from  Bath  (Gen.  Wingate) 
is  predicated  upon  this  principle  if»  part,  it  will  therefore  be 
preferable  to  the  article  as  reported,  it  contains  however  the 
provision,  that  no  town  shall  ever  have  more  than  seven  Repre- 
sentatives, which  ought  to  be  expunged.  As  it  is,  however,  I 
must  vote  for  it,  as  being  a  choice  of  evils. 

1  beg  gentlemen  to  consider  that  we,  the  people,  shall,  after 
we  have  tormed  this  constitution,  still  have  an  election  to  adopt 
it  or  not  ;  and  that,  if  we  should  not  adopt  it,  we  shall  have  a 
constitution,  which  was  made  at  a  time,  when  the  people  of  this 
country  were  alive  to  a  flense  of  justice,  and  of  equal  rights — a 
constitution  which  was  made  by  our  best  and  wisest  patriots — 
by  an  Adams,  a  Hancock,  and  a  Bowdoin.     In  that  instrument 
a  sacred  regard  was  had  to  our  equality  of  representation  to  the 
utmost  practicable  degree.     If  we  intend  the  people  shall  give 
the  preference   to  the  constitution  we  may  prepare,  we  must 
take  care  that  it  shall   be  worthy  of  their  preference  :  without 
which  it  will  be  labor  lost.     We  have  already    determined  to 
apportion  the  Senate  according  to  population,  and  not  according 
to   valuation.      By   this  tlie  counties  of  York  and  Cumberlpnd 
will  lose  two,  out  of  twenty-three  Senators  ;    which  will  be  gain- 
ed by  other  parts  of  the  Stale  ;  thereby  making  a  difference  of 
four,  in  twenty  three,  against  those  counties.     Apportioning  the 
Senate  according  to  valuation,  as  would  be  the  case  should  we 
have  the  constitution  of  Massachusetts,  would  give  the  counties 
of  York,    Cumberland  and  Oxford,  a    majority  in  that  body* 
Making  the  apportionment  according  to  population,  and  it  will 
be  otherv\i.-e.     H<:re  are  powerful  motives  furnished  to  induce 
the?e  counties    to  vote    against  liiis    constitution.     Again — the 
towns  which  are  to  be  classed  in  order  to  be  entitled  to  repre 
senlation,  and  which  would  under  the  constitution  of  Massachu- 
setts be   entitled  to  a   Representative,  without   lieing  classed, 
would,  perhaps,  prefer  the  latter.     And  again — the  large  towns, 
which  are  to   be  deprived  of  an   equal  representation,  will  be 
strongly  impelled  to  give  their  votes  so  as  to  secure  the  enjoy- 
ment of  their  equal  rights  — And  I  may  be  permitted  to  nouce, 
as  being  likely  to  be  added  to  the  number  of  those  who  would 
oppose  your  constitution,  all   those  who  have   been  opposed  to 
a!]  our  attempts  at  separation.      We  mu^t  not  flatter  ourselv«;4J> 


232 

that  ihey  will  be  much  in  love  wilh  the  work  oi'our  bands,  it 
behoves  us,  then,  to  make  a  constitution  unexceptionable  in 
most,  if  not  all,  of  these  particulars. —  We  must  take  care  not  to 
array  a  majority  of  the  people  against  it.  We  must  in  this,  as 
in  every  thing  else,  expect  them  to  he  guided  by  a  view  solely 
to  their  interests. 

I  have,  said  Mr.  W.  an  anxiety  to  make  a  conslitution  that 
shall  confound  gainsay ers.  Every  thing  evil  has  been  predrcted 
by  the  opponents  of  separation.  They  have  alleged  again  and 
again,  that  a  good  constitution  was  not  to  be  expected  at  our 
hands.  1  would  it  were  possible  we  might  teach  them  that  ihey 
are  false  prophets.  I  have,  Sir,  a  pride  to  be  gratified,  as  I 
have  ever  been  in  favor  of  the  independence  of  Maine,  and  ha^e 
ever  insisted  on  our  ability  for  self  government.  I  should  re- 
gret extremely  to  be  unable  to  vote  tor  the  constitution  which 
\ve  may  form. 

Mr.  Holmes  took  an  extensive  view  of  the  subject,  of  which 
the  following  is  an  imperfect  sketch.  He  said  he  bnd  observed 
the  course  of  the  investigation  which  this  subject  had  taken,  and 
bad  not  seen  that  unanimity,  and  disposition  to  accommodate 
and  yield  opinions,  which  seemed  necessary  in  order  to  agree 
upon  a  plan  which  should  be  acceptable-  He  had  looked  for 
argument  instead  of  splend/d  declamation  and  impaj^i^ioned  elo- 
quence. We  ought  not,  said  Mr.  H.  to  be  afraid  of  the  many 
combinations  which  it  is  said  will  be  raised  to  break  down  this 
constitution.  I  will  lay  open  this  proposition  and  that  of  the 
comraiitee,  and  see  if  the  srf)ali  towns  are  disposed  to  combine 
k>  deprive  the  large  towns  of  tbt-ir  rij;hls.  I  understand  the 
proposition  to  be  this — that  the  firsrt  House  of  Representatives 
shall  not  exceed  one  hundred  and  fifty,  divided  according  to 
population.  Mr.  H.  then  staled  his  vitiws  of  its  operation,  and 
that  by  it,  the  large  towns  would  obtain  a  larger  representation, 
and  the  small  ones  less  than  by  the  report.  If  by  the  latter, 
the  sacrifice  of  the  large  towns  was  extravagant,  he  proposed  a 
partial  remedy.  He  then  stated  the  proposition,  which  was 
afterwards  adopted  instead  of  the  report,  which  required  4000 
inhabitants  to  entitle  a  town  to  two  Representatives,  and  7500 
for  three.  He  then  went  on  to  show  the  errors  in  the  argu- 
ments on  the  other  side,  and  to  defend  the  report.  The  com- 
mittee, said  he,  had  in  view  the  prevention  of  fraud — the  con- 
ciliation of  local  feelingji  and  general  inteiests.  It  was  difficult 
to  make  people  give  up  their  corporate  rights,  from  which  ib^y 


derive  many  benefits.  You  must,  then,  make  a  constitution  not 
onlj  for  their  interests,  but  their  prejudices — You  must  preserve 
their  corporate  rig^bts.  The  same  principle  in  Massachusetts 
had  produced  evils,  to  prevent  which  we  must  begin  with  a 
larger  number  for  the  first  Representative.  It  is  said  small 
towns  will  combine  ^igainst  the  large  towns.  They  will  not, 
said  Mr.  H.  unless  they  are  oppressed.  If  we  look  through 
Maine  we  shall  see  that  the  towns  are  a  specimen  of  the  men 
a  mixture  of  small  and  great.  Why  is  it  necessary  to  take 
such  care  of  the  rich  man?  of  rich  and  large  towns  ?  He  ridi- 
culed the  idea  of  small  towns  combining.  The  farmers  do  not 
combine.  Agriculture  is  the  favorite  employment  of  heaven. 
Sir,  when  the  Almighty  had  created  the  world,  he  did  not  say 
we  have  made  an  orator,  or  a  merchant,  or  a  lawyer;  but  we 
have  made  a  man  to  till  the  earth.  Sir,  this  employment  al- 
ways was  the  school  of  virtue — is  there  any  danger  that  they 
will  combine  ?  No,  Sir,  the  judiciary,  the  executive  officers,  the 
merchants — do  no^  these  men  have  their  influence,  and  the 
power  to  explain  their  rights  ?  The  people  in  the  country  are 
struck  with  the  blaze  of  their  eloquence.  But  if  there  is  dan- 
ger, to  what  does  it  amount  ?  You  will  see  the  large  towns  have 
an  advantage  over  the  middling  or>es-  Thus,  Berwick,  Shap- 
leigh  and  Lebanon  have  three  Representatives,  and  so  has 
Portland — and  so  it  is  in  Boston.  While  Boston  sends  forty- 
five,  towns  in  the  country  with  as  many  inhabitants  can  send 
but  thirty.  It  is  only  to  compensate  for  fractions  that  the  in- 
crease is  required.  But  suppose  a  combination  of  small  towns 
against  large  towns.  The  same  was  said  of  large  States,  but 
have  you  suffered  any  cabals  or  combinations  ?  No.  But  sup- 
pose they  do,  there  is  a  check  in  the  Senate.  Suppose  the 
large  towns  cannot  put  it  down,  you  have  the  voice  of  the  peo- 
ple fully  expressed  in  the  Senate  ;  you  will  have  the  men  of 
properly  and  learning  in  the  Senate.  Is  there  danger  that  they 
will  be  put  down  by  this  caballing  ?  but  if  not,  the  corporations 
will  check  them.  It  is  in  this  respect  like  the  constitution  of 
the  United  States.  But  in  addition  to  this  you  will  have  a 
Governor  chosen  by  all  the  people  ;  and  suppose  the  Legisla- 
ture  to  be  corrupt,  the  Governor  checks  them  and  preserves  the 
rights  of  the  people. 

Mr.  Holmes  said,  as  the  usual  hour  of  adjournment  had  ar- 
rived, he  would  give  the  committee  an  opportunity  to  rise  be- 
fore he  finished  his  speech. 
20* 


234 

The  comiDittee  then  rose,  reported  piogress,  and  had  leavie 
to  sit  again,  arad  the  Convention  Adjourned. 

EVENING, — The  Convention  again  resolved  themselves 
into  a  committee  of  the  whole,  upon  the  subject  of  representa- 
tion in  tl>e  House  of  Representatives. 

Mr.  Holmes  now  resumed.  He  said  he  was  not  disposed 
much  longer  to  occupy  the  attention  of  the  committee.  He  did 
not  intend  to  excite  their  passions  and  feelings,  and  hoped  they 
would  not  be  deluded  by  the  eloquence  of  gentlemen.  Sir, 
said  Mr.  H.  there  can  be  no  doubt  as  to  the  effect  of  the  amend- 
ment. It  is  certain  that  it  introduces  a  new  principle  It  is 
certain  mine  does  riot  introduce  a  new  principle — it  is  only  a 
modification  of  that  report.  The  one  is  an  increase  for  the 
second  Representative  and  not  for  others,  the  other  is  to  increase 
progressively. 

The  gentleman  from  Portland  gave  us  in  glowing  colors  the 
situation  of  his  tosvn  ;  but  forgot  to  state  that  it  would  have  forty 
Representatives  by  this  mode — for  it  is  unjust  to  limit  the  num- 
ber if  you  have  the  same  increase  after  the  second.  If  this  is 
the  case  there  will  be  complaints  on  the  other  side.  Mr.  Jef- 
ferson compared  great  towns  to  great  sores  :  although  they  have 
great  talents,  Uiey  have  also  great  evils.  But,  Sir,  it  is  from  a 
source  of  impurity  which  makes  the  talents  more  resplendent. 

Mr.  Holmes  again  argued  against  the  supposed  danger  of  a 
combination  amongst  small  and  poor  towns — that  the  Senate 
was  founded  upon  populaiion,  and  would  be  a  barrier  against 
popular  phrensy  and  delusion.  The  more  you  look  at  it,  said 
he,  the  more  you  will  admire  it.  in  one  branch  you  preserve 
the  corporate  rights,  in  the  other  the  county  is  represented.  In 
the  Senate,  so  venerable,  will  be  found  a  sure  guard  for  the 
wealthy.  Mr.  H.  then  appealed  to  other  Slates.  Mr.  Jeffer- 
son objected  to  the  Federal  Constitution  because  the  two  branch- 
c^s  did  not  represent  different  interests,  in  Massachusetts,  one 
branch  represents  the  wealth;  but  there  is  no  contrariety  of 
interests.  But  here  you  have  different  interests— -one  that  of 
corporate  rights,  the  other  popular  interests  ;  and  the  Governor 
will  be  a  check  on  both.  Here  you  have  a  well  balanced  gov- 
ernment. Look  at  Connecticut — there  each  town  was  entitled 
io  one,  and  none  more  than  two  Representatives.  Was  there 
any  complaint,  if  so,  why  did  they  not  alter  it?  Because  it  was 
en  evil  but  in  name.     Vermont  is  a  child  of  Connecticut.  We 


235 

aeed  not  go  out  of  New-England  to  see  that  it  has  produced  no 
evil.  Every  one  has  regard  to  local  rights.  Even  in  the  United 
States  constitution  there  is  a  provision  that  no  State  but  shall 
have  one.  Go  to  Georgia  whose  constitution  has  been  admired 
as  a  model ;  and  in  Pennsylvania  there  is  one  at  least  in  each 
county.  In  North  and  South  Carolina  both  have  the  sanje 
principle  of  local  though  unequal  interests.  And  you  will  agree 
with  me  that  we  are  to  have  some  regard  to  local  repretenta- 
tion,  and  of  course  some  inequality. 

But  I  believe  we  have  other  checks  against  the  danger.  We 
have  provided  that  the  people  should  be  entrusted  with  our  Lit- 
erary Institutions.  We  intend  to  take  the  literature  of  the 
State  under  our  liberal  protection,  and  such  light  will  be  diffus- 
ed among  the  people  that  with  all  these  grounds  will  there  be 
any  oppression  in  your  government  ?  But  we  have  another 
check  to  the  evil — we  have  the  benign  influence  of  our  holy  re- 
ligion, which  will  always  check  combining  to  oppress.  With 
these  checks,  need  we  fear  that  the  people  will  unite  for  a  di- 
vision of  propert}'  ?  No,  Sir,  wealth  has  its  influence,  and 
will  have.  Another  check  against  the  injury  of  great  towns  is, 
the  small  towns  never  have  their  due  weight.  They  never  com- 
bine— their  local  situation  forbids  it.  Merchants  call  upon  the 
Legislature  for  a  Bank — in  the  country  we  do  nothing.  The 
merchants  complained  of  commercial  restrictions — we  com- 
plained of  nothing. 

Sir,  I  do  not  think  there  is  any  danger.  I  hope  that  the 
proposition  before  us  will  not  obtain — but  1  hope  the  one  I  hint- 
ed at  will.  1  would  preserve  the  progressive  increase,  instead 
of  a  mean  increase.  This  is  only  to  balance  the  fractions  in 
the  counties.  It  is  not  right  that  second  or  third  rate  towhs 
should  lose  fractions,  and  a  large  town  lose  none,  as  Boston  in 
Massachusetts.  If  this  is  not  dan2;erous,  I  do  not  know  what  is. 
Sir,  1  have  seen  the  great  speculators  carrying  measures  through 
the  Legislature  which  a  plain  farmer  would  not  dare  to  think  of. 
There  is  danger  of  the  rich  men.  Look  at  your  county,  capa- 
ble of  a  large  population  made  to  pour  in  their  wealth  into  the 
large  towns.     The  real  danger  is  to  the  agricultural  interests. 

Mr.  Vance  said,  we  have  had  so  many  propositions  to  the 
Convention,  that  some  gentlemen  seem  to  be  bewildered  by 
them.  But,  said  Mr.  V.  neither  the  light  nor  the  Egyptian 
darkness  which  has  been  thrown  upon  this  subject,  has  blinded 
me,     I  left  the  waters  of  St.  Croix  with  rny  own  impressioo, 


236 

and  that  of  my  neighbors,  that  (here  tvas  but  one  principle  to 
govern  us—that  of  justice  and  equal  rights.  1  have  fought  and 
bled  for  this  principle,  and  I  hope  it  will  never  be  relinquished 
by  any  portion  of  the  American  people.  I  have  heard  nothing 
that  has  moved  me  from  the  ground  1  first  took.  If  we  are  to 
have  equal  rights  as  the  basis  of  our  constitution,  will  any  mem- 
ber rise  and  say  that  any  one  is  to  have  his  equal  rights  taken 
from  him  ?  That  equal  justice  would  be  done  to  all  classes  in  the 
representation,  was  the  general  expectation,  and  that  the  num- 
ber would  be  limited.  This  is  the  principle  we  ought  to  adhere 
to,  and  to  fiK  the  number  from  73  to  100.  Sir,  is  it  difficult  to 
do  this  ?  I  undertake  to  say  it  can  be  done.  Let  us  divide  our 
State  according  to  numbers,  and  class  the  towns.  Is  there  one 
who  can  say  this  is  not  just  ?  If  there  is,  there  is  one  who  would 
take  his  equal  rights  from  his  neighbor.  Let  us  not  be  frighten- 
ed at  the  manner  of  classes  or  districts.  But  we  are  told  the 
large  towns  are  rich  and  have  disproportionate  shares  of  influ- 
ence. If  we  class  the  towns,  however,  where  is  the  man  who 
will  not  be  represented — one  who  cannot  say  he  has  an  equal 
share  in  :he  government  ?  I  have  not  heard  complaints  from 
large  towns  so  much  as  fiom  the  middling  ones.  I  do  not  fear 
that  the  large  towns  will  make  laws  to  injure  me,  for  the  same 
laws  must  govern  them. 

The  gentleman  from  Portland,  says  the  Constitution  of  Mas- 
sachusetts is  just  :  but  it  did  not  do  equal  justice.  Every  town 
in  the  old  part  of  the  State  has  a  Representative,  but  in  the  new 
towns,  it  takes  150  polls  to  entitle  them  to  on€,  and  there  are 
many  such  towns.  And  is  this  the  Constitution  we  are  to  go 
back  to  ?  Was  this  giving  equal  rights  ?  No,  Sir.  And  as 
this  did  not  give  equal  rights,  I  am  opposed  to  it,  and  wish  to 
have  one  that  will  secure  them.  This  can  be  done  only  by  dis- 
tricting. Has  any  one  of  the  numerous  plans  given  an  equal 
representation  ?  Is  there  any  one  disposed  to  take  the  right 
from  Portland  and  give  it  to  negroes  ?  Now  the  gentleman 
from  Alfred  will  bring  forward  a  new  proposition.  But  will 
this  remedy  the  evil  ?  He  says  that  Portland  which  has  three 
Representatives,  will  be  equally  represented,  because  that  there 
are  three  towns  in  York  with  an  equal  population  which  have 
only  three.  But  will  it  help  the  gentleman,  if  he  has  lost  an  arm, 
to  know  that  his  neighbor  has  also  lost  one  ?  Let  us  take  the 
Constitution  which  says  all  are  equal,  and  see  this  corresponds 
to  it. 


237 

ii  we  havf  one  hundred  Representatives  an«i  every  one  haT« 
an  equal  voice,  would  any  one  oppose  their  bein^  paid  out  oi 
the  public  chest  ?  No,  Sir,  for  ihey  would  then  legislate  for 
the  whole.  It  might  be  said  the  lart;e  towns  vv<  uid  pay  nine 
tenths  of  the  lax.  But  would  tnis  be  hard?  The  gentleman 
says  the  ricii  go  to  the  lari^e  town??.  This  i<  too  true,  and  he 
might  have  said  our  produce,  &c  go  to  the  towns.  Would  it 
not  l)e  right  for  a  small  part  to  go  back,  as  some  conipehaalion 
for  their  disadvantages  ? 

I  do  not  expect  my  views  will  he  adopted,  but  these  are  my 
impression?,  that  no  one  scheme  so  unjust  has  been  proposed. 
And  unless  we  have  one  better,  I  will  ot  two  evils  take  the 
least,  and  prefer  to  t.^ke  the  report. 

Mr.  Baldwin,  of  Mercer,  said,  the  subject  of  representation 
was  attended  with  many  difficulties  vvhicli  seemed  insurmounta- 
ble. We  have  been,  said  Mr.  B  revising,  arfiending,  supply- 
ing, correcting,  altering  and  rejecting  ;  and  still  the  difficulty 
remains.  The  con&ti!iiti<»n  of  the  State  is,  in  many  respects, 
like  the  ccmstitution  of  the  human  body,  and  if  there  is  oppres- 
sion and  inequality  in  the  former  it  will  produce  disquietude 
and  uneasiness,  to  remedy  which  more  powerful  remedies  must 
be  applied  than  cordials  and  opiates.  We  have  been  carefully 
guarding  against  districting,  and  yet  like  the  old  serpent,  it  has 
inainuaied  itself  ii;  the  specious  form  of  county  lines  and  restric-^ 
tive  numbers,  and  we  dare  not  make  an  efficient  struggle  to  rid 
ourselves  of  it.  I  would  by  no  means  however  tear  down  all. 
I  would  take  the  report  of  committee,  disincumbered  of  county 
lines  and  restrictive  numbers.  Let  the  Convention  agree  upon 
a  corporate  representation,  and  1  am  willing  to  take  any  num- 
ber from  one  to  two  thousand  for  the  first  and  proceed  according 
to  the  progression  in  the  report  ;  we  then  should  have  a  consti- 
tution the  best  in  the  Union,  and  one  that  would  inspire  confi- 
dence and  injure  trairquillity.  Mr.  Baldwin  went  considerable 
length  in  exhibiting  his  views,  and  concluded  by  saying,  if  I 
had  a  voice  like  a  trumpet,  that  would  sound  to  the  remotest 
corner  of  Maine,  it  should  be  heard  in  every  fisherman's  hut  on 
the  sea  shore  and  islands,  and  every  squatter's  log-house  in  the 
beach  wood  settlements,  from  Passamaquoddy  to  the  White 
Hills,  or  al  least  to  their  Representatives. 

Awake  ye  sleepers  !  arouse  from  your  stupor  I  assert  your 
interest  I  put  on  the  man  !  and  ensure  to  yourselves,  your  con- 
stituents aBd  their  posterity,  peace  and  tranquillity. 


238 

Mr.  Wilson,  of  Bingham,  said,  he  thought  there  was  no  dan- 
ger of  small  towns  rising  up  and  crushing  the  large  towns,  as 
most  of  their  inhabitants  come  from  the  large  and  old  towns* 
He  hoped  the  report  of  the  committee  would  be  accepted,  un- 
less a  better  plan  should  be  offered.  He  then  proposed  that 
there  should  be  five  Representatives  for  one  Senator,  to  be  paid 
out  of  the  Treasury  and  distributed  among  the  towns  as  conve- 
niently as  may  be. 

Mr.  Preble.  Mr.  President — 1  will  state  facts.  If  we  become 
satisfied  with  any  proposition  and  unite  on  this  subject,  it  would 
save,  instead  of  wasting  lime,  to  consider  it.  1  find.  Sir,  that 
the  overgrown  and  undue  influence  of  Boston,  has  great  weight 
on  some  minds,  and  they  wish  to  make  a  provision  that  will  pre- 
vent such  an  influence  This  is  done  already.  By  proportion- 
ing your  Senate  according  to  your  population,  you  prevent  the 
evil.  Boston  has  the  proportion  ot  fourteen  to  a  hundred  m  the 
Senate.  It  is  inconsequence  of  representation,  that  they  have 
this  influence.  If  it  were  apportioned  on  population,  Boston 
would  have  but  two  members  in  the  Senate.  This  is  the  way 
to  keep  down  this  influence — not  by  violating  the  fundamental 
principles  of  free  government.  By  the  provision  in  this  section 
Portland  can  never  be  entitled  to  more  than  seven  Representa- 
tives in  200 Although  Portland  may  increase,  the  Slate  will 

increase  in  a  ten  fold  ratio.  There  is  no  danger,  therefore, 
from  large  towns.  Let  us  look  at  the  principle  of  the  report 
and  see  if  it  is  founded  on  equality,  or  ir)justice.  I  am  for  go- 
ing as  far  in  representing  corporations,  as  we  can.  But  take  off 
the  limitation  and  you  give  too  great  an  influence  to  large 
towns.  By  this  provision  Portland  has  three  Representatives  ; 
but  on  principles  of  equality  it  would  have  eight.  Is  it  strange 
that  they  should  be  uneasy  at  this  inequality  ?  If  Alfred  has 
one,  Portland  should  have  eight — where  is  the  justice  and  equal- 
ity of  this  ?  As  to  the  pretence,  that  men  of  lalents  come  tiom 
great  towns  only — we  are  not  to  be  blinded  by  such  arguments. 
A  large  town  may  be  feebly  represented  ;  it  depends  on  the 
people  of  the  town. 

In  the  county  of  York,  the  number  to  entitle  a  town  to  a  Rep- 
resentative is  much  smaller  than  in  Eastern  Counties.  This  aris- 
es from  this  abominable  principle  of  inequality.  Take  the 
proposition  of  the  gentleman  from  Bath.  This  will  assign  25 
to  Cumberland,  then  the  inhabitants  divided  by  25,  and  if 
it  give  2000,  every  town  with  this  number  may  elect  one, 
and  every  one  with  3000  may  elect  two. 


239 

You  have  a  simple  way  of  getting  the  ratio — it  is  more  plain 
and  simple — more  sound  than  the  report.  There  is  no  princi- 
ple in  it  to  say,  there  shall  be  one  for  1500  inhabitants,  and 
then  to  take  an  increasing  ratio. 

Adopt  this  and  it  will  not  increase  but  thirty.  You  will  heal 
all  the  evils,  do  away  the  injustice,  and  have  the  support  of 
many  men,  who  will  otherwise  be  in  opposition.  Your  Senate 
is  predicated  on  population  j — if  it  were  on  property,  Portland 
would  have  one.  The  Senate  is  predicated  on  equality.  I 
entreat  the  Convention  to  yield  a  little  to  the  prejudices  if  you 
will.  Adopt  the  proposition  of  the  gentleman  from  Bath,  and 
you  will  remove  the  difficnlties.  There  can  be  no  danger  from 
large  towns — they  will  not  increase  in  proportic.n  to  the  country. 
1  am  told  by  the  gentleman  from  Hallowell,  that  io  five  or  ten 
years  that  town  will  have  7000  inhabitants,  and  there  will  be 
other  large  towns,  and  if  we  remove  the  limitation  we  shall  have 
general  satisfaction. 

The  President  ro?e  and  said,  Mr.  Chairman — I  did  not  es- 
pect  the  question  now  before  the  committee  would  have  been 
agitated  on  this  floor.  I  did  expect  that  we  were  met  to  estab- 
lish principles.  \i  v.e  had  confined  ourselves  to  this,  we  should 
probably  have  been  as  unanimous,  as  we  were  in  adopting  the 
bill  of  rights.  But  where  subjects  of  legislation  come  befoie  us, 
local  interests  and  feelings  arise  and  interrupt  that  harmony  and 
unanimity  which  it  is  so  i  nportant  to  preserve.  In  ordinary 
legislation,  if  mischief  is  done,  it  may  be  corrected  ;  but  a  con- 
stitution is  not  so  susceptible  of  alteration  or  repeal.  Now,  sir, 
if  we  had  proceeded  to  say  that  the  representation  should  be 
fixed  at  1000  inhabitants  for  the  first,  and  two  or  three  thou- 
sand for  the  second,  and  left  it  to  the  legislature  to  fix  the  exact 
number,  then  they  would  have  altered  it  as  circumstances  re- 
quired If  they  had  derided  that  this  would  give  too  large  a 
Kumber,  it  might  have  been  corrected  I  did  think,  sir,  it  would 
have  been  belter  lel't  to  those  who  come  after  us,  at  least  to  es- 
tablish the  details. 

Sir,  the  gentlemen  who  compose  the  committee  are  men  of 
the  first  talents,  and  they  have  made  a  report  which  would  be 
honorable  to  the  State.  Rut  [  believe  the  proposition  of  my  col- 
league is  an  improvement,  and  that  there  is  an  inequality  in  the 
system  reported.  In  Boston,  by  the  constitution  of  Massachu- 
setts, there  is  an  inequality;  a  town  with  such  a  number  of  Rep- 
resentatives  possesses    more  than  its  just  weight.     But  though 


240 

there  is  an  inequality  In  one  bouse,  Ihere  is  an  inequality  in  the 
other,  which  balances  it.  And  in  our  Conslilution,  there  is  a 
perfect  equality  in  the  senate,  every  man  has  an  equal  right  in 
acting.  But  in  the  house,  there  is  an  inequality,  with  which  I 
think  the  towns  will  not  be  satisfied. 

1  wish,  sir,  to  have  the  constitution  as  perfect  as  we  can  make 
it ;  that  there  should  be  no  reasonable  cause  of  complaint.  And 
I  think  the  large  towns  have  a  reasonable  cause  to  complain. 
But  the  proposition  of  the  gentleman  from  Bath  is  more  equal, 
and  is  founded  upon  a  basis  on  which  we  have  long  practised, 
and  I  think  will  be  more  satisfactory.  The  President  then  ex- 
plained his  views  of  this  pioposition,  and  his  reasons  for  wish- 
ing it  might  be  adopted.  He  said  he  was  sorry  to  hear  the  ob- 
servations of  gentlemen,  which  he  thought  went  to  organize  a 
party  in  that  part  of  the  country.  He  thought  there  was  no  dis- 
position in  the  small  towns  to  conribine  against  the  large  ones, 
and  concluded  by  saying,  if  we  are  disposed  to  give  up  legisla- 
ting, and  adopt  the  proposition,  the  legislature  will  be  formed 
on  such  a  plan  as  will  be  perfectly  satisfactory  to  the  ppO[)le. 

Col  Moody.  Mr,  Chairman — 1  am  not  disposed  to  take  up 
much  lime  at  this  late  hour.  I  have  sat  with  the  greatest  pa- 
tience to  hear  all  the  propositions  that  were  offered,  and  1  was 
in  hopes  swme  one  would  have  been  brought  forward  which 
would  be  agreeable  to  a  large  majority.  I  had  a  favorite  prop- 
osition of  my  own  which  I  was  disposed  to  give  up  if  that  were 
the  case.  But  when  I  hear  what  is  said,  lam  almost  induced 
ttb  'relieve  that  it  is  best  to  adopt  the  proposition  of  the  gentle- 
man (roni  Baib,  because  I  believe  it  to  be  the  nearest  to  an 
equal  representation,  although  I  think  I  see  evils  in  that.  If  I 
were  permitted  to  stale  the  one  which  would  bring  justice  to 
the  line,  1  think  it  is  to  district  the  Slate.  That  is  the  only 
way  of  equalizing  taxation  and  representation.  I  find  gentle- 
men do  not  otject  to  cisssification  if  others  are  alsj  classed. 
Misery  loves  company.  They  are  willing  to  submit  to  incon- 
vefiiences  provided  others  suffer  the  same  inconveniences.  The 
county  of  York  is  complained  of.  I  am  willing  to  have  it  dis- 
tricted as  equally  as  can  be.  If  we  travel  back  and  disliict  the 
whole  State,  you  have  a  system  founded  in  justice  and  truth. 
You  may  then  have  taxation  and  representation  go  together. 
But  I  have  despaired  of  Ibis,  and  thrrefcwe  advocate  the  propo» 
silion  before  us,  because  1  think  it  the  nearest  to  an  eq»ialily. 


241 

The  vote  was  taken  on  adopting  Gen.  Wingatc's  proposHionj 
and  it  was  negatived,  88  to  64. 

'J  fap  Hon.  President  then  resumed  the  chair,  and  the  Hon. 
Judge  Thachcr  reported,  that  the  committee  of  the  whole  Con- 
vention had  had  under  consideration  the  2d  and  3d  sections  of 
the  4th  article  of  the  constitution,  relative  to  representation  in 
the  Hou-e  of  Representatives,  and  directed  him  to  report  the 
same  wifbout  amendment ;  which  report  was  accepted. 

Mr.  Emery.  Mr.  President — [a  sort  of  shuffliiii^  of  feet  was 
heard  and  a  call  from  one  or  two  quarters  of  the  house  for  the 
question — It  was  nearly  eleven  o'clock  in  the  evenins;  ]  Mr. 
E.  proceeded  to  remark  in  a  louder  voice,  that  *'  If  he  was 
to  be  silenced  in  thai  assembly  by  such  measures,  he  should 
submit.  The  President  then  said  by  no  means  could  there  be  a 
desire  in  any  gentleman  to  conduct  with  such  incivility.  Pray 
proceed,  Sir.  Mr.  E.  then  said  if  such  were  the  desij^n,  he 
shou'd  attribute  it  to  that  spirit  of  opposition  to  every  thing  con- 
nected with  a  large  town,  or  its  representatives,  which  had*so 
industriously,  and  so  eloquently  been  fostered  by  gentlemen, 
who  had  long  and  successfully  engaged  the  attention  of  the  Con- 
vention. 

Mr.  Holmes  rose,  and  called  the  gentleman  to  order — the 
gentleman  from  Portland  had  no  right  to  question  the  motives  of 
any  other  gentleman  in  debate. 

Mr.  E.  replied,  that  if  he  were  out  of  order,  he  should  most 
cheerfully  acquiesce  in  the  correction  from  the  chair.  It  just- 
ly appertained  to  that  station  to  settle  such  questions. 
The  President  considered  Mr.  E.  in  order. 
Mr.  E.  For  hours,  Mr.  President,  the  language  has  been 
that  which  could  not  be  understood,  to  lead  to  any  conclu- 
sion but  that  the  small  towns  by  every  consideration  which 
would  work  on  their  hopes  or  their  fears,  were  to  be  excited  to 
restrain  the  large  towns  from  an  equal  representation, 

Mr.  H.  claimed  the  protection  of  the  house.  He  said  he  had 
not  used  such  language — at  any  rate  he  disavowed  all  such  mo- 
tives, whatever  were  his  observations. 

The  President  said,  he  reluctantly  was  obliged  to  acknowl- 
edge, that  the  language  used  by  the  gentleman  from  Alfred, 
seemed  to  carry  the  meaning  attributed  to  it  by  the  gentleman 
from  Portland, 

Mr,  E.  said,  since  the  gentleman  disavows  any  motives  hos- 
tile to  the  iflterests  of  the  large  towns,  I  most  cheerfully  exoner- 
21 


242 

^tc  him  from  ent€rtaining  them.  But  while  Mr.  E.  was  willing 
to  concede  ibis  to  the  gentleman's  very  late  disavowal — be 
could  not  divest  himself  of  the  recollection  of  some  o(  ihe  obser» 
vations  made  by  the  gentleman  from  Alfred,  which  to  the  under- 
standing of  most  men  would  carry  the  conviction  that  ihey  were 
calculated  to  increase  the  unpleasant  feelings  of  thai  des(  riplion 
of  corporations,  however  innocent  and  |)ure  even  the  views  of 
the  gentleman  who  used  the  language.  And  iVJr.  President,  it  is 
necessary  tu  review  those  observaMt)ns,  that  we  may  come  more 
coolly  to  the  decision  of  the  matter  now  in  debate.  When  the 
inquiry  is  made  why  is  it  n«^cessary  to  take  oare  of  the  rich  men 
of  rich  and  large  towns — does  it  not  contain  an  implication  that 
they  are  neglected — or  have  some  cause  of  complaint  that  they 
are  not  equally  represented  and  protected  ?  Does  it  not 
amount  to  telling  them  that  however  they  are  treated,  it  is  equal 
to  their  deserts.  When  it  is  said  they  are  great  sores,  and  great 
evils,  and  the  aid  of  the  name  of  the  venerable  Jefferson  is 
inv  >ked  to  sanction  the  assertion,  is  it  done  without  an  expec- 
tation that  it  will  be  believed,  coming  from  such  high  authority  ? 
Is  it  expected  that  with  the  remark,  that  from  such  sources  of 
impurity,  great  talents,  if  more  resplendent,  will  be  more  res- 
pected ?  Would  not  this  language  in  any  other  case  be  calcu- 
lated to  induce  gentle-men  to  look  with  any  eye  of  suspicion  on 
delegates  from  those  places,  to  hear  with  almost  closed  ears  ev- 
ery thing  which  could  be  said  in  favor  of  the  rights  of  those 
towns  ? 

The  gentleman  has  been  long  in  the  legislature  of  Massachusetts 
' — He  assumes  to  speak  on  this  occasion  as  a  witness,  and  informs 
us  that  he  has  seen  the  great  speculators  in  Boston  carrying 
measures  through  the  Legislature,  which  a  plain  farmer  would 
not  dare  to  think  of.  Mr.  President,  Boston  is  not  now  on  tri- 
al— she  is  not  here  to  make  a  vindication.  That  great  and  no- 
ble designs  ha^e  their  origin  there,  no  one  can  doubt — and  gen- 
tlemea  of  elevated  patriotism  have  there  always  been  found,  to 
carry  their  designs  into  execution  But  would  any  gentleman  take 
the  language  which  we  have  been  doomed  to  hear  as  communi- 
cating praise  to  the  inhabitailts  of  that  place?  Did  not  all  with 
one  accord  fail  into  the  belief,  that  the  schemes  and  measures 
carried  through  the  Legislature,  which  a  plain  farmer  did  not 
dare  to  think  of,  were  measures  of  such  a  character  as  required 
the  hardihood  and  ^'impure  sourcesj*^  of  great  towns  onl-y  to 
originate  ?     So  abandoned  as  would  shock  the  honest  integrity 


245 

of  a  farmer  to  reflect  on  a  moment  ?  And  would  not  every  one 
conclude  that  those  nefarious  practices  to  which  the  genlleraan 
alluded  as  adopted  at  Boston,  would  be  resorted  to  in  the  large 
towns  in  this  State  ? 

Language  of  this  description,  and  thus  applied,  when  all 
great  towns  are  alive  to  the  operation  of  the  principle  which 
avows  their  inhabitants  are  not  of  equal  consideration  with  in- 
habitants of  smaller  towns,  must  strike  every  Delegate  from  a 
jarge  town  with  alarm.  For  while  the  inhabitants  of  the  small- 
er towns  are  praised  as  the  favorites  of  Heaven,  a  warning  is 
made  to  them  against  the  judiciary  influence,  against  the  plots 
and  schemes  of  speculators,  and  the  knavery  and  tyranny  of 
merchants,  which  makes,  as  the  gentleman  says,  all  the  wealth 
of  the  country  pour  into  the  large  towns.  And  witbal  w<^  are 
lold  that  the  agricultural  interest  is  in  danger. 

But  is  the  gentleman  avrare  of  the  effect  of  his  highly  wrought 
statement  ?  VVere  such  unheard  of  and  unrighteous  schemes  ab- 
solutely carried  through  the  Legislature  of  which  he  was  a 
member,  and  he,  the  watchman  of  the  people's  rights,  silent? 
Were  so  many  of  the  yeomanry  of  Massachusetts,  who  were  of 
the  Legislature,  silent  and  unconcerned  spectators  of  the  pro- 
gress of  iniquity  under  the  sanction  of  laws,  without  their  pro- 
test on  the  records  ?  To  believe  all  this  would  be  to  credit  one 
of  the  most  extraordinary  libels  ever  made  against  a  legislative 
body.  Mr.  E.  said  he  did  not  believe  it.  Much  must  be  placed 
to  the  rhetorical  colouring  which  the  gentleman  so  frequently 
•displays. 

Unquestionably  in  consequence  of  the  great  activity*  of  com- 
merce  in  the  capital,  the  extensive  information,  the  liberal 
and  enlightened  views  of  merchants  and  scientific  men  who 
throng  there,  measures  of  the  highest  inr.portance  are  proposed 
to  the  Legislature  for  iheir  sanction,  n'hich  perhaps,  on  accouni 
of  the  locality  of  other  members  from  the  interior,  have  not  be- 
fore been  the  sul>ject  of  their  contemplation.^ — But  when  to 
iheir  understanding  the  bearing  of  the  objects  to  be  accomplish- 
ed was  well  explained  with  an  independence  characteristic  of 
thost^  usually  selected  for  our  Legislature,  they  have  given 
their  support,  to  what  they  thought  the  interest  of  the  Common- 
wealth  required.  For  one  Mr.  E.  said  he  had  the  highest  con- 
fidence in  the  integrity  of  the  citizens  of  the  smaller  towns.— 
They  usually  understood  their  interests,  and  from  them  would 
come  to  tke  Legislature,  some  of  the  most  influential  and   abk 


244 

members.  I^et  us  look  to  this  very  assembly.  Mr.  E.  said 
that  for  example,  he  would  ask  whether  the  town  ot  Alfred 
would  Complain  of  the  want  of  ability  of  their  delegate  in  this 
Convention  ?  What^project  has  he  brought  forward  which  has 
not  found  ready  and  able  advocates  ?  VVhtt  measure  has  he  not 
carried  ;^gainst  every  opposiiion  ? 

That  which  has  been,  will  probably  again  occur,  and  we 
may  yet  see  represtnialives  from  the  smaller  towns  run  a  tri- 
umph mt  career. 

It  may  well  however  be  wished  for  the  honor  of  the  State, 
and  for  the  proonotion  of  republican  virtue,  whoever  may  be 
the  successor  of  the  gentleman  from  that  respectable  town,  that 
he  will  wield  other  arguments  than  those  addressed  to  the  jea- 
lousies and  the  ignoble  passions  of  the  assembly  with  which  he 
may  be  destined  to  associate*. 

Mr.  Emery  further  remarked,  that  it  was  truly  farcical  to 
suppose  the  agricultural  interests  in  danger.  They  would  be 
most  numerously  gu-^rded,  and  the  towns, most  filled  with  inhab- 
itants and  property,  must  pay  for  the  services  of  those  who 
would  be  most  directly'employed  for  the  protection  of  the  in- 
terests of  atjriculture. 

The  motives  of  gentlemen  who  have  assailed  the  large  towns 
wilh  the  most  singular  and  unjustifiable  insinuations,  we  are  not 
to  impugn.  It  is  true  that  the.  effect  is  of  more  consequence  to 
the  injured  than  the  motive.  The  terms  used,  however,  must  not 
be  forgotten.  The  tendency  of  them,  to  say  nothing  of  the  mo- 
tive, no  one  can  mistake.  They  are  calculated,  Mr  Emery 
said  he  must  repeal,  to  array  the  poor  against  the  rich,  to  en- 
courage usurpation  of  the  rights  of  others,  to  excite  and  inflame 
animosities,  and  all  to  procure  the  acceptance  of  the  report  on 
the  subject  of  Representatives  at  all  events.  There  is  manifest 
displeasure  at  the  discussion  in  opposition  to  it.  A  resolution 
is  indicated  to  decide  the  matter  at  this  time,  and  crush  com- 
plaints at  once. 

In  this  course,  Mr.  E.  said,  he  should  suffer  only  as  one.  But 
is  this  honorable  body  to  be  goaded  and  hurried  on  to  a  decision 
when  their  afitipathies  have  been  roused,  when  their  jealousies 
have  been  addressed  and  kindled,  when  the  [^rfjudices  of^rtaf)/ 
are  flattered,  and  their  love  of  power  expanded  ?  For  it  is  in  re- 
ality a  struggle  for  power  of  the  small  against  the  large  towns^ 
and  equal  rights  of  citizens  in  the  latter,  have  been  dismissed  as 
loo  troublesome  for  adjustment. 


245 

You  are  urged  now  to  settle  the  question,  not  in  the  calm  de- 
liberation in  which  you  have  been  advancing,  but  in  an  almost 
convulsive  impatience  at  delay,  and  in  a  sort  of  overbearing  de- 
rision of  the  distress  of  those  who  are  to  suffer  by  an  unequal  ap- 
portionment. 

You  are  deeply  interested  to  hear  more  !  There  are  vari- 
ous propositions  yet  before  you  exhibited  previously  to  the  Presi- 
dent's resuming  the  chair,  which  have  had  no  examination. 
The  proposition  of  Mr.  Neal,  and  of  Mr.  Wilson,  which  seem- 
ed, when  announced,  to  arrest  the  attention  of  numbers,  and  in- 
stantly command  their  approbation  ;  that  of  Mr.  Baldwin, which 
he  says  is  thf»  prettiest  thing  in  the  world,  with  some  others  of 
respectable  import,  and  this  of  Mr.  Wingate,  which  by  some  is 
professed  not  to  be  clearly  understood,  and  by  others  is  prefer- 
red to  the  report  of  the  committee.  In  these  circumstances  can 
you  proceed  coolly  and  conscientiously  to  slide  over  those  not 
examined,  as  matters  which  merit  condemnation  without  a  hear- 
ing of  the  reasons  which  actuated  their  authors  ?  Would  this 
comport  with  the  dignity  of  the  Convention  ? 

The  debate  has  been  long  protracted.  It  is  pressing  hard  up- 
oa  midnight.  Sometime  past,  an  adjournment  was  negatived, 
though  called  for  after  the  ordinary  time.  For  the  honor  of  the 
assembly,  Mr.E.  said, he  most  devoutly  hoped  a  decision  would 
not  then  be  had,  but  that  an  adjournment  would  take  place. 

Shall  it  be  said  that  this  most  momentous  of  all  questions  was 
settled  in  a  midnight  session  ?  When  the  attention  was  fatigued, 
and  feelings  not  of  the  best  sort  had  uncontrolled  dominion, 
when  reason  slumbered,  and  the  eyelids  weighed  heavily  ?  Is 
this  the  state  of  mind  in  which  you  heretofore  believed  your 
vole  would  be  given  ?  Would  your  constituents  applaud  you 
for  such  conduct  ?  Could  those  members,  whose  propositions, 
made  in  good  faith,  have  been  treated  with  mortifying  and  un- 
provoked neglect,  think  well  of  the  proceeding  ?  Will  they  not 
say  we  were  invited  to  lay  them  on  the  table  to  be  read  and 
to  be  slighted — to  make  way  only  for  the  ijifallibility  of  projects 
from  another  quarter  ?  When  these  things  are  known,  do  you 
think  they  will  have  no  weight  with  the  people  ?  Would  it  be 
a  trifle  that  you  should  put  at  hazard  the  acceptance  of  your 
constitution  1 

You  have  the  power  of  declaring  that  all  these  considerations 
are  matters  of  indifference.     You  can  exercise  the   power.     If 
you  do  it,  Mr.  E.  said,it  would  be  an  occasioii  of  sorrow  to  him 
21* 


246 

for  he  entertained  the  most  profound  respect  for  the  Convention. 

He  thought  it  would  not  be  matter  of  pleasing  contemplation 
to  any  one  to-morrow.  In  the  quiet  of  retirement  a  fairer  view 
of  the  subject  in  its  various  lights  and  bearings  may  be  taken, 
and  in  the  morning  he  hoped  they  would  all  meet  in  a  spirit  of 
justice  ami  conciliation. 

Mr.  E.  then  moved  an  adjournment,  which  was  carried. 

WEDNESDAY,    OCT.    27. 

Mr.  Holmes,  chairman  of  the  revising  committee,  reported 
the  2d,  3d,  and  4th  articles  of  the  constitution,  as  examined 
by  them  ;  and  thereupon,  Ordered^  That  the  said  articles  now 
be  engrossed. 

The  Preamble  and  Declaration  of  Rights,  or  the  1st  article  of 
the  constitution,  as  reported  by  the  revising  committee,  as  beiriig 
correctly  engrossed,  was  again  read. 

Judge  Thacher  said,  he  wished  the  constitution  to  go  out  to 
the  people  with  the  appearance  of  being  founded  upon  religious 
principle.  He  had  found  much  anxiety  on  the  subject,  and 
moved  to  amend  the  3d  section  by  inserting  the  word  "  duty," 
which  motion  was  decided  to  be  out  of  order. 

Mr.  Knight  then  called  up  his  amendment,  to  insert  after 
"  test"— ''  but  a  belief  in  the  Christian  religion." 

Judge  Thacher  said,  he  did  not  know  why  a  Jew  should  be 
excluded  ;  he  has  the  same  belief  in  Jehovah,  the  God  of  Abra- 
ham.    We  have  the  same  hold  on  him  in  administering  an  oath. 

The  motion  was  lost. 

Mr.  Knight  proposed  to  insert,  *'  but  a  belief  in  the  being  of 
a  God." 

Mr.  Dole,  of  Alna,  hoped  motions  so  trifling  and  pernicious 
in  their  consequences  would  not  be  debated. 

Gen.  Wingate  said,  the  motion  amounted  to  nothing,  since  a 
man,  who  did  not  believe  in  the  being  of  a  God,  would  be  wil- 
ling to  swear  that  he  did. 

This  motion  was  also  lost.  The  article  then  passed  unani- 
mously. 

To-morrow,  at  10  o'clock,  was  assigned  for  coming  to  the 
choice  of  a  Secretary  o^Siale pro  tempore  ;  and  that  nominations 
be  suspended  in  the  mean  time. 

Resolved,  That  Mr.  Preble,  of  Cumberland,  Mr.  Thacher, 
j^jn.  of  York,  Judge  Ames,  of  Lincoln,  Mr.  Jarvis,  of  Hancock, 
Mr.  Burgin,  of  Washington,  Mr.  Gage,  of  Kennebeck,  Mr.  Vir- 
gin, of  Oxford,  Mr.  Coiburn,  of  Somerset,  and  Mr.  Stetson,  of 


247 

Penobscot,  be  a  committee  to  prepare  an  address,  in  bebalf  of 
the  Convention,  to  the  people  of  Maine,  to  be  distributed  with 
the  constitution  submitted  to  the  people. 

The  Convention  further  considered  the  motion  made  by  Mr. 
Dearborn,  for  reconsideration  of  ihe  vote  relative  to  the  subject 
of  representation  in  the  House  of  Representatives. 

Col.  Atherton.  Mr  President — 1  did  not  intend  to  have  taken 
any  part  in  this  debate,but  the  subject  has  taken  so  wide  a  range, 
and  so  many  expedients  have  been  offered,  without  producing 
a  conciliation  of  the  different  conflicting  interests,  that  [  can  no 
longer,  without  a  total  disregard  to  the  duties  1  owe  my  coa- 
stituents,  remain  silent.  Notwithstanding  the  numerous  pro- 
jects on  your  Honor's  table,  I  do  not  yet  feel  satisfied  thai  any 
one  has  been  offered  which  ought  to  take  precedence  of  the 
amendment  I  proposed. 

I  am  still  of  the  same  opinion,  notwithstanding  all  the  ingenu- 
ity which  has  been  displayed  by  various  gentlemen  of  this  Con- 
vention, that  districting  upon  an  extensive  plan,  and  apportioned 
to  the  population  of  counties,  will  be  found  to  be  the  most  equal 
and  convenient  system.  The  representation  of  this  State  never 
ought  to  exceed  one  hundred  members.  This  number  is  amply 
sufficient  for  all  the  purposes  of  legislation.  Let  the  counties  be 
districted  equally  on  the  population,  and  pay  the  members  out 
of  the  public  chest,  and  make  it  imperative  that  all  those  re- 
turned members  to  the  Legislature  should,  at  every  session,  be 
at  the  post  of  their  duty.  Here,  Sir,  you  have  an  equal  repre- 
sentation, formed  on  the  basis  of  strict  justice  to  all,  which  will 
cost  the  State  one  third  less  than  the  proposed  plan  ;  but,  Sir, 
on  the  reported  system,  at  least  75,000  of  your  freemen  are 
deprived  of  the  right  of  representation.  Where,  Sir,  do  we 
find  these  75,000  disfranchised  citizens  ?  A  part  of  them  fall 
on  the  class  to  which  the  town  I  have  the  honor  to  represent  is 
annexed.  We  had  more  than  sufficient  in  numbers  to  entitle  this 
town  to  one  Representative,  yet  the  committee  joined  another 
to  it  because  they  knew  not  what  else  to  do  with  it.  Another 
portion  of  the  loss  falls  on  the  town  of  Portland,  which,  on  every 
principle  of  equal  representation,  is  entitled  to  six  Representa- 
tives.— And  thus  unequally  does  this  classification  of  a  part  of  the 
towns  operate  throughout  the  new  State. 

Sir,  this  system,  if  system  it  can  be  called,  which  has  neither 
proportion,  form  or  comeliness — has  all  the  odious  features  of 
districting,  so  much  dieaded  and  deprecated,  without  any  of  its 


248 

equal  advantages.  Towns  of  less  than  1200  send  a  Representa- 
tive, while  classes  exceeding  3000  also  send  but  one.  I  confess 
I  do  not  understand  why  a  thousand  inhabitants  oi  the  town  of 
Hallowell  are  not  equally  entitled  to  theirright  of  suffrage  as  the 
same  nunober  in  any  other  part  of  the  country.  I  confess,  Sir, 
I  have  none  of  these  jealousies. — I  do  not  perceive  wfey  the  in- 
terests of  the  great  and  the  snoall  towns  are  not  identified. — Nor 
can  I  understand  the  motives  of  gentlemen,  who  have  attempted 
to  excite  the  distrust  of  the  small  against  the  large  towns.  1  do 
lament,  Sir,  that  the  Hon.  gentleman  from  Alfred  should  have 
made  use  of  any  expressions  having  this  tendency.  He  has 
given  us  the  higL  authority  of  the  sage  and  philosopher  of  Mon- 
ticello,  *'  that  great  cities  are  great  sores." — I  do  not  believe 
this  to  be  true  as  applied  to  well  regulated  cities,  nor  do  I  be- 
lieve in  the  infallibility  of  all  the  speculative  opinions  of  that 
truly  great  man.  In  the  same  work,  quoted  by  the  Hon.  gen- 
tleman from  Alfred,  may  also  be  found  a  sentiroent  of  this  sort — 
"  that  it  matters  not  what  a  man's  religion  is,  so  long  as  it  nei- 
ther picks  my  pocket  or  breaks  my  leg."  Perhaps,  Sir,  as  a 
general  principle,  of  not  interfering  with  the  religion  or  rights  of 
conscience  of  others,  this  may  be  correct — but,  Sir,  the  want  of 
this  same  religion  has  picked  many  a  man's  pocket  and  broken 
many  a  neck,  [The  President  here  interrupted,  and  doubted 
whether  the  gentleman  was  perfectly  in  order.]  Mr.  A.  ex- 
plained. Sir,  1  have  not  taken  a  wider  range  than  the  gentle- 
man from  Alfred  (Mr.  Holmes)  was  indulged  in.  He  alluded 
to  the  same  personage  and  to  the  same  work,  and  I  thought  it 
proper  in  this  way  to  reply  to  that  part  of  his  argument.  [The 
President  decided  that  Mr.  A.  was  in  order,  and  directed  him  to 
proceed.]  It  was  far  from  my  intention,  Mr.  President,  to  de- 
tract in  the  least  from  the  merits  of  the  great  personage  in  ques- 
tion.— He  is  undoubtedly  one  of  the  distinguished  lights  and  or- 
naments of  this  country;  but  his  speculative  opinions  are  as 
open  to  animadversion  as  those  of  any  other  man. 

Next  to  the  system  of  general  districting  (if  this  cannot  be 
attained)  I  would  hold  fast  te  the  plan  proposed  by  the  Hon. 
gentleman  from  Bath,  (Gen.  Wingate)  as  being  the  next  best 
system.  Sir,  I  admire  the  magnanimity  of  this  gentleman,  for 
presenting  us  with  a  system  which,  if  adopted,  will  rise  superior 
to  all  petty  distinctions  and  jealousies  between  the  great  towns 
and  the  small.  To  this,  Sir,  let  us  cleave  as  to  the  sheet  anchor 
of  our  safety — as  to  our  last  forlorn  hope. 


241> 

Let  us  not,  at  the  outset,  deprive  one  quarter  part  of  our  felloff 
citizens  of  their  elective  franchise.  But  let  us  seasonably  take 
warning  from  the  disturbances  and  massacres  which  have  re- 
cently happened  in  another  country,  on  account  of  the  people's 
contending  for  the  very  rights  we  are  about  to  deny  to  our  owa 
citizens. 

Judge  Cony  said  he  did  not  lise,  expecting  to  exhibit  new 
views  on  the  subject,  the  discussion  of  which  was  nearly  brought 
to  a  close.  But  I  believe,  said  the  Judge,  it  will  be  of  use  to 
our  constituents,  as  well  as  the  different  projects  which  have 
been  laid  on  the  table.  Gentlemen  s^.y  wc  shall  not  be  able  to 
get  a  perfect  system.  Sir,  tve  are  all  imperfect.  The  ques- 
tion we  should  decide,  before  we  complain  is,  is  the  system 
just  and  equal  ?  The  constitution  of  Massachusetts  says,  "  in 
order  to  provide  for  a  representation,  founded  upon  the  princi- 
ple of  equality,"  and  by  this  mode  seventy  towns,  besides  the 
plantations,  are  not  entitled  to  a  Representative.  Is  this  equal  ? 
Now  let  us  look  at  the  constitution  as  reported  and  adopted- 
does  it  approach  nearer  an  equality  ?  1  was  not  its  advocate — 
I  was  for  districting.  But,  >iir,  we  come  here  from  corpora- 
tions, and  having  corporate  feelings,  which  will  have  their  in* 
fluence.  Why  will  not  this  report  be  amended  ?  because  there 
are  more  who  think  that,  though  not  entirely  equal,  it  is  the 
nearest  to  an  equality  of  any  that  has  been  proposed.  I  think. 
Sir,  that  it  will  secure  our  rights— that  it  is  the  b-est  that  will  be 
adopted.  Gentlemen  say  the  constitution  will  be  opposed  by 
the  people.  1  believe,  Sir,  the  people  will  be  satisfied  with- 
the  f)rovision  for  the  Governor  and  Council,  the  Judiciary,  <J-c. 
With  respect  to  the  House  of  Representatives,  I  believe  the 
provision  is  as  equal  as  any  on  the  table,  though  if  the  Conven- 
tion would  district,  and  have  but  one  hundred  Representatives, 
I  might  vote  for  an  amendiiieot.  But  I  hope  we  shall  come  to 
some  proposition  in  which  we  can  all  unite,  and  which  will  be 
agreeable  to  our  constituents. 

Mr.  Holmes  said  be  did  not  rise  to  make  a  speech,  but  to  of- 
fer a  proposition.  I  hope,  said  he,  we  shall  exhibit  a  disposi- 
tion to  accommodate  and  to  yield  something  to  opinions  differ- 
ent from  our  own,  and  I  think  we  are  in  a  better  state  of  feel- 
ing for  t.iis  purpose  than  we  were  last  night. 

1  hope,  Sii,  the  progressive  principle  will  be  preserved, 
though  not  with  so  great  an  increase.  There  need  be  no  re- 
consideration to  adopt  this  alteration.     But  I  think  it  will  satisfy 


2S0 

the  large  and  the  small  towns.  It  is  not  mine,  nor  preciselv 
what  1  wish. — Nor  is  the  constitution  mine — nor  are  there  ma- 
ny articles  which  perfectly  please  me.  But  we  must  get  one 
as  good  as  we  can.  It  is  but  a  choice  of  evils,  and  we  niust  have 
a  spirit  of  accommudation. 

The  motion  of  Mr.  Dearborn  was  then  so  far  withdrawn  by 
the  mover,  as  to  admit  the  following  : — 

Mr.  Holmes  moved  to  amend  the  3d  section,  4th  article,  in 
the  second  line  strike  out  **  4000,"  and  insert  ''  3750  ;"  and 
in  the  fourth  Ime  strikeout  *'  7500,"  and  insert  "  6750,"  which 
motion  pas5»ed  in  the  affirmative,  164  to  80. 

Mr.  Holmes  said,  an  amendment  has  been  passed  in  a  spirit 
of  accommodation  by  the  large  towns — let  us  now  see  if  some- 
thing cannot  be  done  for  the  small  towns. 

A  further  amendment  was  then  moved  by  Mr.  Holmes,  by  in- 
serting, at  the  end  of  the  3d  section,  4ih  article,  part  1st,  these 
words  : — '*And  whenever  any  town  or  towns,  plantation  or  plan- 
tations, not  entitled  to  elect  a  Representative,  shall  determine 
against  a  classification,  with  any  other  town  or  plantation,  the 
Legislature  may,  at  each  apportionment  of  Representatives,  on 
the  application  of  such  t3wn  or  plantation,  authorise  it  to  elect 
a  Representative  for  such  portion  ot  time  and  such  period  as 
shall  be  equal  to  its  por:ion  of  representation,  and  the  ri>iht  of 
representation,  so  established,  shall  not  be  altered,  until  the 
next  general  apportionment," 

Son^e  (ew  remarks,  and, objections  to  this  amendment,  were 
made  on  the  part  of  Judges  Dana,  Thacber  and  Pan  is,  Dr. 
Rose,  Mr.  Dole,  and  Mr.  Allen,  of  N. 

Mr.  Holmes  observed,  that  the  proposition  was  not  understood. 
It  was,  that  in  forming  classes,  the  Legislature  might  give  one 
town  a  right  to  send  a  Representa'.ive  according  to  its  popula- 
tion, and  class  the  others.  What,  asked  Mr.  F].  if  a  town  with 
1200  inhabitants  is  surrounded  by  towns  having  a  right  to  a 
Representative,  what  will  you  do  with  such  a  town  ?  On  the 
^application  of  that  town,  the  Legislature,  in  forming  classes, 
will  take  it  into  consideration.  It  would'  do  manifest  injustice 
to  such  towns  Bot  to  give  them  the  right  to  elect  Representa- 
tives 4  a  portion  of  time  equal  to  their  proportion  of  represen- 
tation. 

This  amendrBtnt  then  passed  in  the  affirmative,  166  to  45^ 
and  the  said  sections  were  so  amended. 

Several  propositions  were  raade?in  writing,  as  substitutes  for 


251 

I 
tbe  2  Jand  3d  seetions,  4tb  article  of  the  Const Kution.  The 
propoMtioij,^,  (^o^Je  of  which  have  been  noticed)  were  frera  Mr. 
Wilson,  ot  Bingham,  Mr  Stevens,  of  China,  Mr.  Baldwin,  of 
Mercer,  Mr.  Grover,  oi  Bethel,  Mr.  Neal,of  EHiot,  Mr.  Tuck- 
cr,  ol  SiamJsh,  Mr.  Thomas,  of  £«len,  Major  Swan,  of  Wins- 
low,  Mr.  Allen,  of  Norridgwock,  Mr.  Shaw,  of  Newport,  Dr. 
Rose,  of  Boothbay,  Judge  Cony, ot  Augusta,  Major  Treat,  of 
B'.ngor,  Mr.  Ri.'ey,  of  iSewry,  Mr.  Leonard,  of  Brewer,  and 
Mr.  Johnson,  ot  Jackson  ;  which  were  severally  read,  and  or- 
deied  to  be  placed  upon  the  files  of  the  Convention. 

Ariicle  llih,  ^ectIon  1st,  was  agaiu  taken  into  consideration. 
Gen.  Wingate's  motion  to  strike  out  that  part  of  the  section 
which  provides  for  the  first  House  of  Representatives,  and  sub- 
atiiuie  a  provision  similar  to  that  of  Massachusetts,  was  taken 
up. 

Judge  Cony  said,'  there  would  be  much  business  come  before 
the  first  Legislature,  and  he  did  not  perceive  the  necessity  that 
it  should  be  sO  large  as  three  hundred  ;  and  if  it  were  so,  he 
should  not  be  in  favor  of  the  amendment. 

Mr.  Dearborn  said,  there  are  now  147  members  from  Maine, 
and  that  upon  this  proposition^  it  would  amount  to  1^0  or  200, 
and  not  more. 

Mr.  Adams,  of  Gorham,  said,  in  1813,  of  about  that  period, 
when  party  excitement  was  at  its  height,  there  were  actually 
elected,  if  I  do  uot  misrecollect,  nearly  240  members,  in  the 
District  of  Maine,  of  the  House  of  Representatives.  If,  then, 
we  should  in  the  same  mode,^lect  our  first  House  of  Represen- 
tatives, and  in  addition  allow  every  corporate  town,  not  having 
150  ratable  polls,  to  elect  one  Representative,  our  first  Legis- 
lature will  contain,  at  least,  300  Representatives;  for  the  peo- 
ple will  surely  be  disposed  to  exercise  their  elective  franchise 
to  its  lullest  extent.  The  people  however  danot  wish  nor  ex- 
pect, the  opportunity  of  electing  so  unwieldy  a  number  ;  they 
desire  that  the  number  may  be  much,"eri/inttcA  reduced. 

Mr.  Dearborn  referred  to  the  Convention,  which  had  but  a- 
bout  300  members,  and  many  towns  send,  which  will  have  to  be 
classed. 

Mr.  Holmes  said,  we  made  a  report  apportioning  the  first 
Legislature  so  as  to  contain  146  members,  with  classing  the 
plantations.  This  proposition  provides  only  for  those  towns  to 
choose,  which  are  entitled  to  elect  under  the  Constitution  of 
Massachusetts,  and  to  class  the  others.    On  th€  one  hand,  th€ 


252 

House,  if  this  is  adopted,  will  be  more  numerous,  and  on  the 
other,  more  e5  pensive.  He  did  not  however  think  it  a  matter 
©f  great  importance. 

Mr,  'J'hacher,  of  Saco,  hoped  the  motion  would  not  prevail. 
In  the  county  of  York  there  would  be  fifty  Representatives, 
and  he  thought  Iwentv*  five  would  do  quite  as  well.  There  must 
be  two  sessions  of  the  Lfgislature,  which  must  bit  not  less  than 
eighty  days,  and  at  an  expense  of  forty  thnu«and  dollars. 

Mr.  Usher  could  see  no  good  reason  for  the  amendment.  It 
bad  been  said  our  expenses  would  be  lessened  ;  the  business 
could  be  done  with  more  despatch  and  harmony  by  a  smaller 
number. 

Gen  Wingate  then  withdrew  his  motion. 

A  different  arrangement  and  apportionment  of  Representa- 
tives, from  that  in  the  printed  report,  in  the  counties  of  Penob- 
scot and  Oxford,  agreeably  to  the  report  of  the  committees  frona 
those  counties,  was  accepted. 

The  apportionment  of  Representatives  for  the  counties  of 
Lincoln  and  Hancork,  was  committed  to  the  delegates  from 
said  counties  respectively,  for  them  to  consider  said  apportion- 
ment, and  to  report  this  afternoon. 

Section  2d  passed  with  a  small  amendment, 

Section  3d  passed  without  amendment. 

Section  4lh  was  read. 

Mr.  Baldwin.  Mr^  President — It  appears  to  me  this  scetioix 
delegates  to  our  Legislature  a  stretch  of  power,  that  noLegisla- 
ture  on  earth  has  a  right  to  exercise.  '*  Whenever  two  thirds  of 
both  houses  shall  deem  it  necessary  to  propose  amendments  j" 
and  pray,  Sir,  why  not  when  a  majority  shall  deem  it  necessa- 
ry ?  Or  why  not  when  a  majority  of  the  people  shall  deem  it 
necessary  ?  h  it  too  great  a  privilege  for  the  people  to  exercise 
this  right  ?  for  a  right  it  is,  and  one  that  never  ought  to  be  wrest- 
ed from  the  people.  Is  it  too  much  expense  to  insert  in  this 
Constitution,  that  seven  years  hence,  or  in  the  yedr  1826,  th€ 
selectmen  in  the  several  towns  in  Maine,  shi<ll  insert  an  article 
in  their  warrants,  tor  taking  the  sense  of  the  people  on  this  most 
important  question  ?  Two  thirds  of  both  houses  !  And  suppose 
one  third  of  the  people  sustain  intolerable  grievances  from  year 
to  year,  in  consequen(ie  of  the  present  mode  of  districting  the 
State  into  counties  j  and  suppose  further  that  our  Senate  and 
House  of  Representatives,  should  be  made  up  with  a  majority 
of  baughty,  aspiritig  oien,  who  care  nothing  for  the  rights  of  the 


253 

people  ?  Is  it  such  a  dangerous  thing  to  trust  the  people  with 
a  right,  of  once  in  seven  years  giving  their  voice  whether  they 
wish  to  revise  their  constitution  ?  Look  into  other  constitu- 
tions, Massachusetts  and  New  Hampshire,  and  see  what  is  right 
there.  And  are  the  rights  of  the  citizens  of  Maine  less  dear  to 
them,  than  those  of  Massachusetts  or  New  Hampshire  ?  Sup- 
pose, Sir,  your  Legislature  should  be  made  up  of  men,  that  from 
year  to  year,  and  for  ten  years,  should  deem  it  unnecessary  to 
revise  the  constitution,  and  if  for  i^x\^  why  not  for  twenty,  or  e- 
ven  for  an  hundred  years.  Suppose  this  should  be  the  case, 
when  is  your  constitution  to  undergo  a  revision?  Look  into 
the  constitution  of  Great  Britain,  and  witness  the  privations  and 
sufiPerings  of  the  people  there.  When  are  they  like  to  obtain  a 
revision  of  their  constitution  and  redress  of  grievances  ?  And 
are  men  any  better  by  nature  here  than  in  Great  Britain  ?  De- 
prive the  people  of  their  power,  give  unlimited  power  to  their 
rulers,  under  any  form  of  government,  and  witness  the  conse- 
quence. Is  it  more  safe  to  trust  the  people  with  the  right  of  re- 
vising, or  to  give  iheir  rulers  unlimited  power  ?  Every  man  ac- 
quainted with  history  can  easily  answer.  1  hope  this  section  will 
never  go  to  the  people  in  its  present  form. 

Mr.  Herrick  moved  to  strike  out  '•  whenever  two  thirds  of 
both  houses  deem  it  necessary,"  and  insert  '*  in  the  year  1824, 
and  every  tenth  year  afterwards."  This  motion  was  lost,  and 
thki  section  passed  with  a  slight  amendment. 

Section  5.  Mr.  Johnson,  of  B.  moved  to  strike  it  out,  con- 
sidering it  obligatory  and  ipso  facto  a  part  of  the  constitution, 
without  a  vote  of  the  Convention. 

Mr.  Holmes  would  retain  it,  as  the  act  of  separation  express- 
ly requires  it  to  be  adopted  as  a  part  of  the  constitution. 

The  motion  was  negatived,  and  the  section  passed  as  reported. 

Section  6th  and  last  passed  without  debate  ;  and  the  Conven- 
tion Adjourned, 

AFTERNOON.  Resolved,  That  Col.  Moody,  Judge  Par- 
ris.  Gen.  Chandler,  Gen.  Kendall,  and  Col.  Pond,  be  a  com- 
mittee to  consider  and  report  the  day  to  be  named  by  the  Con- 
vention, when  the  inhabitants  of  the  several  towns  and  planta- 
tions shall  give  in  their  votes  for,  or  against  the  adoption  of  the 
constitution  for  the  new  State  ;  and  also  the  manner  in  which 
the  constitution  shall  be  published  and  distributed,  together 
with  the  accompanying  address. 


254 

The  committee  composed  of  the  delegates  from  the  county  of 
Lincoln,  made  a  report  upon  the  subject  of  the  apportionment  of 
Representatives  in  said  county,  (making  some  alterations  from 
the  printed  report,)  which  report  was  read  and  accepted. 

Capt.  Delano,  of  Woolwich,  complained  of  the  arrangement 
of  his  town. 

Mr.  Holmes  in  reply  observed,  that  it  was  deemed  necessa- 
ry to  make  the  representation  as  equal  as  possible  according  to 
the  counties — not  deeming  it  possible  nor  important  to  get  it 
\ery  exact  in  every  town — but  to  o;et  it  as  equal  as  possible, 
consistent  with  equality  in  the  counties,  and  the  preservation  of 
corporate  rights. 

The  committee  of  Delegates  for  the  county  of  Hancock,  re- 
ported some  alterations  in  the  apportionment  of  Representatives 
on  the  west  side  of  Penobscot  river,  which  was  accepted. 

The  following  amendment  was  offered  by  Col.  Lewis,  to  be 
added  to  Article  9th — General  Provisions, 

*'  Section  7th.  And  while  the  public  charges  of  the  State,  or 
any  part  thereof,  shall  be  assessed  on  polls  or  estates,  in  the 
manner  that  has  hitherto  been  practised,  in  order  that  such  as- 
sessments may  be  made  with  equality,  there  shall  be  a  valua- 
tion of  estates,  within  the  State,  taken  anew,  and  in  every  ten 
years  at  least,  and  as  much  oftener  as  the  Legislature  shall  di- 
rect ;"  the  above  amendment  passed  in  the  affirmative  without 
a  division. 

Col.  Atherton  moved  to  reconsider  the  vote,  relative  to  the 
6th  Section,  7lh  Article  of  the  Constitution,  passed  the  25th  in- 
stant, and  to  substitute  the  section  as  it  now  stands  ;  and  said, 

Mr.  President — I  should  not  have  moved  a  reconsideration 
of  the  vote  taken  on  this  section,  did  I  not  believe  that  the 
jTiembers  of  this  honorable  Convention  are  wholly  incapable  of 
withholding  t'rom  the  raililia  that  protection  of  rights  which,  by 
the  constitution  reported,  is  freely  bestowed  on  every  other 
class  of  our  citizens. 

They  do  not  ask  it  of  us  as  a  privilege,  but  they  demand  it  as 
a  right.  Thirty  thousand  of  the  soldiery  of  this  district  have 
their  eyes  fixed  on  this  Convention  with  anxious  solicitude — 
^leny  them  their  reasonable  requests,  and  however  estiinable,  in 
other  respects,  the  constitution  may  be  which  you  will  send 
forth  to  the  people,  it  will  be  rejected. 

Sir,  I  would  always  hold  the  military  in  exact  subordination 
to  the  civil  authority,   but  to  do  this  it  is  not  necessary  to  de- 


25S 

prive  them  of  all  right.  The  petitions  on  your  Honor's  table 
speak  in  language  which  cannot  be  misunderstood — they  take 
it  for  granted  that  the  evils,  which  have  long  been  endured,  will 
now  find  a  remedy  by  a  salutary  provision  in  this  censtitulion. 

{  hope,  Sir,  1  shall  be  enabled  to  do  away  some  of  the  ob- 
jections which  were  raised  by  the  honorable  gentleman  from 
Alfred  (Mr.  Holmes  )  On  subjects  of  a  legal  nature,  1  should 
not  have  the  audacity  to  put  my  opinions  in  competition  with 
his — but  on  this  question,  after  many  years'  experience  of  the 
injustice  of  the  militia  system,  my  judgment  may  have  some 
weight  even  against  the  all  powerful  influence  of  that  honorable 
gentleman. — He  has  intimated  that  the  proposed  substitution 
went  even  to  compel  invalids,  and  the  aged  and  infirm,  to  per- 
form military  duty,  or  pay  an  equivalent.  I  will  refer  that 
honorable  gentleman  to  the  militia  laws  of  the  United  States, 
where  it  is  stated  that  none  but  '*  able  bodied  white  male  in- 
habitants of  the  age  of  eighteen  and  under  forty-five  years," 
4^c.  are  the  subjects  of  military  duty. 

It  is  therefore  useless  to  name  as  exemat*,  thos«  «ho  are 
positively  made  so  by  the  laws  of  the  United  States.  Other 
gentlemen  are  apprehensive  that  we  shall  legislate  too  far  in 
this  respect.  1  h3ve  no  fears  of  this  sort.  If  the  militra  have 
been  proscribed  is  there  any  good  reason  why  the  proscription 
should  be  continued  ?  1  am  in  favor  of  remunerating  the  militia 
for  their  services,  but  it  is  impracticable  at  present  to  provide 
fundi  tor  this  object.  They  will  be  satisfied  if  you  will  destroy 
the  odious  distmclions  of  exemptions  and  thereby  equalize  their 
burdens. 

The  proposed  amendment  will  have  the  certain  effect  of  fill- 
ing the  ranks  of  the  militia.  It  will  also  create  a  handsome  fund, 
which  the  Legislature  will  no  doubt  appropriate  to  the  use  of 
those  who  perform  military  duty. 

By  the  aid  of  these  funds  and  the  arms  to  be  received  from 
the  State  and  the  United  States,  we  may  in  a  kw  years  expect 
to  see  our  militia  completely  uniformed,  armed  and  equipped, 
and  superior  to  any  other  treops  of  the  kind  in  the  United  Slates. 

I  would  ask,  Sir,  why  we  should  leave  this  constitution  at 
loose  ends  and  give  the  Legislature  unlimited  power  to  create 
exemptions,  with  or  without  a  reason  at  their  pleasure.  Sup- 
pose, Sir,  (and  we  are  bound  to  guard  against  possibilities  as 
well  as  probabilities)  that  the  Legislature  should  consist  of  a  ma- 
jority of  men  conscientiously  scrupulous  of  bearing  arms  ?  What 


256 

would  then  become  of  your  defenders  ?  They  would  to  a  man  be 
exempted  by  the  section  as  it  now  stands  in  your  constitution. 
And  have  we  no  apprehension  this  will  be  the  case  when  the  gov- 
ernment itself  holds  out  an  invitation  for  men  to  become  conscien- 
tiously scrupulous  P  We  say  in  so  many  words, if  you  will  become 
conscientious  about  this  matter  of  killing,  we  will  exonerate  you 
not  only  from  military  duty,  but  also  from  an  equivalent.  Sir, 
there  is  another  way  found  out  in  New  York,  and  other  States, 
to  obtain  an  equivalent  for  non-performance  of  military  duty. 
It  is  by  a  commutation  tax ;  the  scrupulous  in  New-York  have 
paid  as  high  as  six  dollars  per  annum  on  this  tax  for  public  uses, 
not  however  to  be  connected  with  the  military.  Here  then  is 
a  mode  pointed  out  which  will  seem  to  obviate  all  difficulties. 
I  am  willing  to  leave  that  respectable  class  of  our  citizens  called 
**  Friends"  in  the  hands  of  the  Legislature,  and  thus  does  the 
substitute  I  oflfer  provide. 

In  the  year  1814,  a  military  convention  was  convened  at 
Gray — it  was  numerously  attended — and  a  petition  to  the  Le- 
gislature unanimously  adopted,  pointing  out  the  grievances 
suffered  by  the  militia.  Numerous  other  petitions  from  every 
part  of  the  Commonwealth  followed.  And  what  became  of 
them  ?  They  were  ordered  to  lie  on  the  table,  or  if  committed 
were  never  heard  of  more. 

The  members  of  the  Legislature  first  decreed  themselves  ex- 
empt from  military  duty  while  legislating — They  next  decreed 
in  favor  of  a  host  of  Justices  of  the  Peace,  and  other  petty  offi- 
cers— and  these  were  followed  by  other  exen>ptionv,  ami  discre- 
tionary power  to  exempt,  until  we  lost  nearly  one  third  of  our 
whole  physical  force. 

Sir,  have  we  any  pledge  that  a  future  Lecjislature  will  not  do 
the  same  ?  Leave  it  in  the  power  of  the  Legislature,  and  al  the 
first  session  they  will  have  an  application  to  exempt  140  engine- 
men  from  this  town.  Why,  Sir,  let  me  ask,  should  the  Slate 
furnish  enginemen  for  the  town  of  Portland  ?  And  to  the  ruin  too 
of  the  whole  military  establishment  of  the  town.  I  well  re- 
member. Sir,  during  the  last  war,  that  the  Portland  regiment, 
which  ought  to  have  been  800  strong,  mustered  but  about  300 
men.  At  the  same  time  the  exemptions  amounted  to  nearly  300. 
The  militia  I  consider  as  owing  their  services  and  allegiance  to 
the  whole  State  arkd  not  to  a  single  town — 1  never  found  them 
backward  at  firps,but  always  willing  to  do^as  much  as  thc/avor- 
ed  exempts  themselves. 


237 

During  the  war,  and  while  the  militia  were  ordered  out  for 
the  defence  of  Portland,  the  companies  of  artillery  and  infantry 
were  filled  by  drafts  from  the  country. 

Having  occupied  some  time  on  this  subject,  previous  to  this, 
twill  not  longer  detain  the  Convention,  being  fully  persuaded 
that  we  shall  not  disappoint  the  just  expectations  of  our  con- 
stituents, who  have  a  right  to  expect  that  we  shall  measure  out 
equal  justice  to  all. 

Gen.  Chandler  said,  he  was  very  well  satisfied  that  some- 
thing should  be  done  to  relieve  the  burdens  of  that  class  of  the 
commmjity.  He  thought  it  would  be  one  of  the  first  dut-es  of 
the  Legislature  to  do  them  justice,  and  hoped  the  motion  would 
prevail. 

Mr.  Holmes  said,  1  do  not  recollect  but  two  exceptions  which 
I  should  make  to  this  amendment  One  is,  its  providing  that 
certain  persons  may  be  exempted,  and  not  others.  The  other 
is,  that  it  is  too  strong  j  that  it  prohibits  the  Legislature  from 
exempt insj  others,  even  for  sufficient  reasons. 

Mr.  Baldwin  displayed,  at  some  length,  the  unequal  burden 
borne  by  the  militia,  the  main  pillars  of  our  independence^ 
which  in  his  opinion  was  not  only  extremely  unjust,  but  cruel 
and  tyrannical,  and  ought  to  be  remedied.  He  was  strongly  op- 
posed to  the  plai\  of  clglhing,  equipping,  and  arming  them,  as 
being  liable  to  many  difficuliies,  and  dej^rading  to  the  soldier. 
If  they  receive  any  compensation,  said  Mr  B.  let  it  be  liberal 
— relinquish  their  poll  taxes,  and  let  them  remain  gentlemen,  if 
you  wish  to  maintain  the  spirit  and  genius  of  freeborn  patriots. 

Mr.  Shepley  hoped  the  subject  wculd  not  be  passed  over 
slightly.  The  people  expect  their  rights  to  be  secured  to  them. 
They  ask  for  no  excuse  from  duty,  I  ut  only  that  others  should 
not  be  exempt  from  performing  duty  ;  but  only  that  others 
should  not  be  exempted  from  performing  what  they  do  them- 
selves, and  this  is  perfectly  reasonable. 

Mr.  Herrick;  of  B.  thought  there  was  too  much  disposition 
to  shift  responsibility  from  the  Convention  to  the  first  Legisla- 
ture. He  thought  this  the  time  to  make  our  rights  and  liberties 
secure  :  he  was  in  favor  of  the  motion. 

Mr.  Slockbridge  remarked,  that  the  motion  of  Col.  A.  would 
prevent  the  Legislature  from  making  exemptions  on  account  of 
religious  scruples,  which  power  he  thought  they  ought  to  pos- 
sess.   ■ 

Mr-  Allen  said  he  should  be  willing  the  militia  should  have 
22* 


258 

Sonne  emolument  ;  he  hoped  none  would  be  exempted  wl 
an  equivalent. 

The  President  observed,  that  It  was  apparent  the  burden 
fell  heavily  upon  the  poorer  clashes.  He  was  of  opinion 
an  equivalent  should  be  given,  by  those  who  were  excuse 
be  regulated  by  law,  and  bear  some  proportion  to  the  an 
of  property  which  was  protected  by  the  militia.  In  some  o 
States,  50  per  cent,  is  deducted  from  taxes  of  those  wl 
military  duly,  which  operates  as  an  equivalent  to  those 
pay  the  taxes. 

The    motion    for  reconsideration  prevailed,  and  the  se 
was  striken  out.     And  the  motion  to  adopt  the  substitute  of 
Atherton   passed  almost  unanimously,  and  the   section  w& 
amended. 

Judge  Green,  chairman  of  the  committee  appointed  to  prej 
a  petition  to  Congress   for  the    admission   of   Maine    into 
Union,  made  a  report  which    was  read,  and  ordered  to  lie 
the  table. 

Col.  Atherton  gave  notice  that  he  should  call  up  his  resoi 
tion  to  appoint  a  committee  to  locate  the  seat  of  governmei 
to-morrow  at  9  o'clock. 

A  motion  was  made  to  fix  the  salary  of  the  Governor  at  froi 
$  1200  to  g  1500,  which  was  advocated  by  the  Rev.  Mr.  Hog 
per,  of  Paris,  who  said  the  people  expect  iU  But  the  molioi 
was  negatived;  by  150  to  29. 

Adjourned. 

THURSDAY,  OCT.  28. 

Mr.  Wevmouth,  of  Belmont,  submitted  a  proposilioh  relatife 
to  the  judiciary,  which  was  read  and  ordered  to  lie  on  the  table. 

Ordered.  That  Col.  Moody,  Judge  Parris,  Gen  Chandler, 
Gen.  Kendall,  and  Col.  Pond,  be  a  committee  to  consider  and 
report  the  time  and  place  to  which  this  Convention  shall  ad- 
journ, in  order  that  they  may  finish  tbe  hufiness  assigned  them, 
by  an  act  relating  to  the  separation  of  Maint^  from  Massacbu- 
setlP  proper,  and  forming  the  same  into  a  separate  and  inde- 
pendent stale. 

Mr.  Holmes  moved  an  amendment  to  be  inserted  i*i  article 
JG!h,  schedule,  seciion  1st,  providing  for  the  election  of  persons 
(o  supply  the  vacancies  which  night  happen  by  the  death  of  the 
President,  or  Secretary  of  State  pro  tempore^  which  passed  in 
?h*!  affirmative. 


259 

Col.  Moody,  chairman  of  the  committee  appointed  jre«tcrday, 
upon  the  subject  of  printing  and  distributing  the  constitution 
and  address,  submitted  the  following  resolution^  which  was  read 
and  passed. 

Resolved,  That  the  Secretary  of  the  Convention  be  authorised 
and  required,  to  procure  to  be  printed,  a  sufficient  number  of 
the  copies  of  the  constitution  and  the  address  to  the  people  of 
Maine,  and  distribute,  as  soon  as  may  be,  one  copy  to  the  se- 
lectmen of  each  town,  and  the  assessors  of  each  district  or  plan- 
tation ;  one  to  each  clerk  of  the  several  towns  and  plantations, 
and  one  to  each  of  the  members  of  the  Convention  ;  and  also  to 
cause  the  same  to  be  published  in  the  se?eral  newspapers  print- 
ed within  the  district. 

The  same  committee  reported  the  follovring  resolution  • 

Resolved,  That  when  the  business  of  the  first  session  of  this 
Convention  is  completed,  the  convention  will  adjourn,  to  meet 
on  the  first  Wednesday  of  January  next,  at  the  court  house  in 
Portland. 

Read  and  accepted. 

Col.  Atherton  moved  the  following  resolution,  as  a  substitute  ' 
for  the  one  he  had  previously  offered  on  the  subject  of  iocatioB 
of  the  seat  of  government : 

Resolved,  That  the  first  meeting  of  the  Legislature  of  the  State 
of  Maine,  and  for  the  organization  of  the  government,  shall  be 
in  the  town  of  Portland  ;  which  w^as  read — and  Ordered,  That 
the  above  resolution  be  committed  to  the  committee  appointed 
to  prepare  and  report  a  constitution  or  frame  of  government,  for 
the  new  Stale. 

On  motion  of  Col  Moody,  three  o'clock  this  afternoon  was 
assigned  for  coining  to  the  choice  of  a  Treasurer. 

Mr  Stockbridge  moved  *o  amend  article  4tb,  section  5th,  by 
inserting,  after  ministers  of  the  gospel,  *'and  those  whose  re- 
ligiou:^  sentiments  forbid  their  engaging  in  war."  It  has  been 
remarked,  said  iVTr.  S  that  the  coustilution  is  generally  accep- 
table to  the  people  abroad  ;  but  this  section  has  been  altered  so 
as  to  make  it  imperative  on  the  Legislature,  tu  cause  all  persons, 
except  quakers  and  shakers,  judges  of  the  supreme  caurt,  and 
ministers  of  the  gospel,  do  military  duty,  or  pay  an  equivalent. 
Now,  said  he,  if  a  sect  of  Moravians  i^huuid  arise  in  the  State, 
whose  religious  sentiments  lorhid  them  to  peiform  miiiiary  duty, 
it  would  be  hard  to  lay  the  burden  on  them.  There  are  many 
in  this  Convention,  who  cannot  vote  for  the   constitution,  unless 


260 

tiMfprcvrferoti  hi  ttraxle  ;  and  a&  th*  gentfetfWtt  fi^mrt>rd«pect  Bat 
consented  to  this  am<»ndment,  1  hupe  it  will  be  adopted. 

The  motion  was  negatived. 

Mr.  Stockbridge  proposed  to  insert  "  licence  to  j^reach  iht 

gospel.*' 

Dr.  Rose  twov^d  to  strike  6ut  '*  Ordained  and  settled/' 

Mr.  Holmes  said  be  hoped  it  would  be  struck  out.  There 
ate  many  candidates  and  nnissionaries  In  different  parts  of  the 
State  who  we  do  not  want  in  ?he  ranks  of  the  militia. 

Col#  Moody  and  Gren.  Chandler  opposed  the  motion,because 
it  would  be  difficult  todecide  who  were  ministers  of  the  gospel. 

Judge  Thacher  said*  it  might  brii)g  on  a  question  between  the 
law  and  the  constitution.  Every  one,  said  the  Judge,  is  in  one 
sense,  a  preacher  of  the  gospel,  as  it  is  his  duty  to  preach  and 
also  to  practise  ;  and  no  others  arc  ministers  of  the  gospel — for 
if  he  preach  and  does  not  practise,  he  is  a  liar.  Travelling 
preachers  would  not  be  exempted  ;  but  if  it  were  left,  cdained 
ministers,  it  would  be  left  to  the  judiciary,  to  settle  it  according 
to  the  New-Testament  and  words  of  Christ  himself. 

Mr.  Thacber,  of  Saco,  hoped  the  motion  would  not  prevail. 
If  it  did,  there  were  fifteen  or  twenty  of  Cochran's  Society  who 
would  claim  an  exemption,  and  a  whole  division  of  seU  made 
preachers  would  be  exempted. 

Mr.  Locke  considered  it  of  great  importance.  There  are,  said 
he,  many  ordained  ministers,  who  are  not  settled,  and  who 
think  it  their  duty  to  go  as  missionaries — to  "  go  and  preach 
the  gospel  to  every  creature."  He  thought  thty  ought  to  be  ex- 
empted, or  it  would  not  be  equal,  and  hoped  the  motion  would  , 
prevail. 

Judge  Dana.     Mr.  President — I  should  not  have  riben  on  this 
subject,   if  some  of  the  refnarks   of  the    Hon.    gentleman   from, 
Biddeford  were  not  calculated  to  give  a  wrong  impression,  and  ^ 
that  I  n»tght  remove  the  apprehenaions  of   the   gentleman  from 
Sacc»,  Mr.  Thacher,  that    if  the    amendment    takes   place,  we  ■, 
shall  have  a  brigade  of  renegade  exempted    preachers.     I  fully  i 
agree  with  him  thai  every  ignorant  enthusiast,  who  can   collect, 
pe<>ple  enoui^^h  together  for  an  evening  meeting.^  ought  not   to  be, 
exempted  from  doing  military  duty  without  paying  an  equiva-4. 
lew.    .Nor  does  it  follow,  by  any  mean?,  if  the  words  settled  and  * 
ordained  are  stricken  out, that  surh  impostors  will  be  exempted,  :^ 
Will  fjot  th-e  Legislaiure  be  as  suitable  jufiges,  as    we,  who  are 
and  who  are  not  mnmiet^  of  the  gospel  ?  and  why    should  we^  : 


261 

who  come  here  to  form  a  constitution,  assume  the  duties  bf 
Legislators  ?  Our  business  is  to  prescribe  the  form  of  govern- 
ment and  to  establish  general  principles :  but  not  to  descend  to 
an  application  of  them  ;  this  will  be  the  duty  of  others  chosen 
for  that  purpose  ;  and  we  ought  to  have  confidence  in  future 
Legislatures:  they  will  discriminate,  and  justly  decide,  who  are 
ministers  of  the  gospel  and  who  ought  to  be  exempted.  Gentle- 
men appear  to  be  alarmed  that  we  are  about  to  extend  the  prin- 
ciple of  toleration  too  far.  I  can  assure  them  there  is  no  danger 
— we  cannfr)t  extend  this  principle  too  far  ;  for  experience 
teaches  us,  that  religious:  frenzy  and  enthusiastic  wildness  can 
never  be  checked  by  coercive  measures ;  but  will  thrive  best  in 
opposi'.ton.  If  you  would  correct  this  evil,  you  must  correct 
the  public  taste  and  improve  the  moral  sentiment — by  educa- 
ting your  youih  in  a  suitable  manner  ;  for  with  ignorance  dwells 
supersdtiun  ;  and  wherever  the  people  are  fond  of  being  in)pos- 
ed  upon,  ai  d  deceived,  there  you  will  alw  ys  find  in  postors  and 
dert  ivers.  'J'here  is  another  reason  why  the  words  settled  and 
crditined  should  not  be  fixed  in  the  consiiluiion,  as  descriptive  of 
exempts ;  because  ilen^m  nations  may  a^ise  among  U9,  viho  shall 
have  able  and  pious  teachers,  who  ought  (if  any)  to  be  exempt- 
ed from  military  duty,  and  yet  do  not  con»e  under  the  above 
description  ;  and  I  believe  there  are  now  some  of  this  kind  : 
how  unwise  and  unjust  it  would  be  to  select  those  teachers  of 
religion,  and  those  only,  who  belong  to  particular  denomina- 
tions, as  candidates  for  favour,  to  the  exclusion  of  all  others — • 
it  w(  uld  be  an  invidious  distinction,  and  such  an  one  as  1  hope 
and  tru«<t  we  fehall  notadt»pt. 

Col.  Moody  said,  there  was  no  standard  by  which  to  decide 
who  are  inmisters  of  the  gc^pel,  and  if  this  amendment  were  ac- 
cepted, he  should  be  induced  to  move  that  no  minister  should 
be  a  member  of  the  Legislature,  as  they  might  pos-illy  be  a 
■najori'y  He  would  ask  Mr  Locke,  if  there  was  any  thing  in- 
couipatible.  tor  a  minister  who  is  not  settled,  to  do  military  du- 
ty ?  U  he  travels  agreeably  to  the  precept,  SLid  preaches  to  cr- 
try  creaturCfhe  will  not  remain  long  enough  in  the  same  place 
to  become  liable,  and  if  he  returns  I  see  not  why  he  should  be 
•xempt,  I  think  it  proper  for  these  lights  of  the  world  to  go 
sometimes  and  give  light  to  those,  as  they  are  called,  off^couring 
©f  the  earth — to  christianize  and  also  to  civilize  them. 

Mr.  Hobbs  thought  gentlemen  need  not  be  so  much  alarmedo 
Ercry  preacher  of  the  gospel  ought  to   be  exempt.     The  gen-^ 


262 

tleman  from  Saco  said  every  fourth  man  is  a  preacher,  and  men- 
tioned the  Cochranites — but  they  have  lost  their  head  and  must 
soon  die. 

The  amendment  proposed  by  Dr.  Rose,  was  accepted,  143 
to  51. 

The  Convention  proceeded  to  the  choice  of  a  Secretary  of 
State  pro  tempore  fur  the  new  State,  by  ballot.  The  wh©le 
number  of  votes  was  277  and  there  was  no  choice.  At  the  sec- 
ond balloting  the  whole  number  was  270,  Ashur  Ware,  Esq. 
had  157,  and  was  declared  elected.     Accepted. 

Judge  Cony  thought  it  would  be  proper  to  observe  the  usual 
practices  and  religious  observances  at  the  day  of  election,  and 
and  therefore  he  would  move  that  an  hour  be  assigned  to  elect 
aclergyinr>n  to  preach  the  election  sermon  in  May  next. 

Judge  Parris  thought  it  had  better  be  postponed  until  the  next 
sesi^ion  of  the  Convention. 

Gen.  Wingate  asked,  if  we  were  to  have  all  the  parade  and 
pageantry  of  the  government  of  Massachusetts  ?  He  hoped  we 
should  be  more  fef'»i*>Ucaa.  The  practice  had  been  mucli  a- 
bused. 

Resolved,  That  Judge  Parris,  lion.  Mr.  Whitman  and  Mr. 
Preble  be  a  committee  to  receive  the  returns  of  the  several 
towns  and  plantations,  approving  or  disapproving  of  tije  Consti- 
tution prepared  by  this  Conveittion. 

Articles  2d,  3d,  4lh,  5th,  6th,  7th  and  8th  of  the  Constitution 
were  reported  by  the  revising  rcmmittee,  as  having  been  exam* 
ined  by  them  and  correctly  eiigro  ed,  nere  severally  read  again 
and  pa««ed 

Judge  Thacher  said,  he  did  not  know  that  preaching  a  ser- 
mon was  anti  republican.  Other  States  had  always  practised 
it,  r»nd  it  is  a  good  and  wholesome  custom. 

After  a  little  conversation  the  matter  subsided  and  no  vote 
was  taken  on  the  sul>ject. 

Mr.  'ohnson,  of  Belfast,  moved  to  insert  in  article  7.  section 
6.  *"No  able  bodied  male  citizen" — because,  'dhhough  such  are 
exempted  from  military  duty,  by  the  laws  of  the  U.  States,  yet 
there  is  no  impropriety  in  recognizing  it,  in  our  consliiulion, 
since  i^is  not  generally  understood.  This  question  was  bega- 
tived,  and  the  Convention  Adjourned. 


AFTERNOON.'-'Mr  Low,  of  Lyman,  the  oldest  member 
©f  the  Convention,  ros«  in  his  place  and  said,  Mr.   President,  I 


263 

have  said  little  in  this  Convention,  but  I  have  been  an  attentive 
observerof  the  proceedings  ;  and  although  I  have  ever  been 
opposed  to  the  measure  oT  separation,  I  have  been  pleased  to 
see  the  manner  in  which  the  important  business  of  the  Conven- 
tion has  been  conducted,  and  with  what  has  been  done.  I  think 
it  judicious  and  correct,  and  I  shall  endeavour  to  persuade  the 
people  to  adopt  the  constitution — and  I  sincerely  hope  that  no 
root  of  bitterness  will  spring  up,  to  mar  the  harmony  which  has 
so  happily  prevailed  during  this  session  in  this  Convention.  He 
then  asked  leave  to  offer  the  following 

VOTE  OF  THANKS. 

Resolved^  unanim§usly,  that  this  Convention  present  their 
thanks  to  their  Hon.  President,  for  the  candor  and  impartiality 
with  which  he  has  conducted  in  his  office,  and  for  his  successful 
cndeavers  to  preserve  peace  and  harmony  during  our  session  ; 
and  that  we  tender  hiai  our  wish  for  a  happy  return  to  his  fami- 
ly, and  the  possession  of  all  those  blessings  which  sensibility 
can  enjoy. 

Which  resolve,  after  being  read  by  ihe  Secretary,  was  unan- 
imously adopted. 

Upon  which  the  President  made  the  following  reply  :-• - 

<}ENTLEMEN    OF    THE    CONVENTION, 

This  testimony  of  your  approbation  is  to  me  inv^jluable — If 
I  have  been  successful  in  the  discharge  of  the  duties  which  the 
partiality  of  friends  assigned  me,  to  your  uniform  candor  and 
support  it  must  be  attributed — which  will  always  be  gratefully 
acknowledged. 

Permit  me,  gentlemen,  to  congratulate  you  upon  the  harmony 
and  mutual  respect  which  has  prevailed  during  your  delibera- 
tions and  to  hope  that  this  spirit  of  toleration  and  good  will, will 
be  generally  diffused  by  your  example. 

I  will  only  add  my  best  wishes  for  your  prosperity  and  hap- 
piness, and  that  for  your  public  services,  as  well  as  your  indi- 
vidual exertions,  you  may  receive  the  confidence  and  gratitude 
of  your  feliow-citizens. 

Agreeably  to  assignment,  the  Convention  proceeded  to  the 
choice  of  a  Treasurer  ;  when  it  af>peared  that  the  whole  num- 
ber of  votes  given  in  was  263  ;  necessary  (o  a  choice  132  ;  and 
the  Hon.  Albion  K.  Parris  had  222  votes  jmd  he  was  declared 
elected, 

Mr.  Wilkins,  ofNew-Charlestown  moved  the  following  a- 
mendment  to  the  10th  article  of  the  constitution,  in  these  words 


264 

— "  Section  8th,  all  taxes  upon  real  estate,    assessed  by  the  au 
thority  of  the  State,  shall  be  apportioned  equally    according  to 
the  just  value  thereof." 

Mr.  Wilkins  said,  he  believed  it  had  been  the  desire  of  the 
Convention  to  establish  just  and  equitable  principles,  and  that 
the  manner  of  taxing  property  hitherto  used  was  very  unequal. 
He  knew  no  reason  why  uncultivated  lands  should  not  be  taxed 
equally  with  improved  lands,  and  therefore  was  solicitous  for 
the  insertion  of  this  provision  in  the  constitution. 

Col.  Moody.  I  hope,  Sir,  the  motion  will  prevail.  I  think 
there  is  justice  in  taxing  wild  lands,  as  well  as  other  property, 
according  to  their  relative  value.  I  have  ever  been  in  favor  of 
it,  and  have  endeavored  to  have  the  rule  established  in  the  tax 
acts  of  the  General  Court ;  but  it  has  always  been  defeated.  I 
caa  see  no  reason  for  the  distinction  between  improved  and  un- 
improved lands,  and  believe  it  obstructs  the  settlement  of  our 
wild  lands,  and  that  nothing  would  conduce  more  to  this  end 
than  equalizing  taxes. 

Judge  Ames  said,  that  he  was  extremely  gratified  with  the 
proposedamendment  of  the  Hon.  gentleman  from  New-Charles- 
town,  and  hoped  it  would  be  adopted,  though  he  did  not  rise  to 
offer  any  argument  in  support  of  the  motion,  believing,  as  he 
did,  that  no  member  of  the  Convention  could  possibly  oppose 
it,  who  had  witnessed  the  unequal  system  of  taxation  in  the 
Commonwealth  of  Massachusetts.  But  fearing  the  motion  might 
be  withdrawn  on  the  suggestion,  which  had  been  made,  that 
the  object  of  it  was  already  secured  by  a  provision,  contained 
in  the  eighth  section  of  the  terms  and  conditions  in  the  act  of 
separation,  he  rose  merely  to  offer  bis  own  construction  of  the 
provision  alluded  to.  The  provision  is  this  :—"  No  laws  shall 
-be  passed  in  the  proposed  State  with  regard  to  taxes,  making 
any  distinction  between  the  lands  and  rights  of  property  of  pro- 
prietors, not  resident  in,  or  not  citizens  of  said  pjoposed  Slate, 
and  the  lands  and  rights  of  properly  of  the  citizens  of  the  pro- 
posed State  resident  therein."  He  said,  to  him  it  was  clearly 
manifest  from  this  provision,  that  the  Legislature  of  Massachu- 
setts intended  nothing;  more  than  to  place  all  the  lands  of  non- 
resident proprietors  upon  an  equal  footing  in  relation  to  taxes 
with  the  lands  of  resident  proprietors,  and  that  this  object  only 
is  effected  by  the  provision  of  the  Act — if  therefore  the  wild 
lands  of  resident  proprietors  are  taxed  only  at  two  |iercent,  the 
government  of  the  new  State  can  only  tax  the  wild  lands  of  non- 


265 

resident  proprietors  at  two  per  cent ;  and,  if  one  is  taxed  at  six 
per  cent,  tiie  other  must  be  taxed  at  six  per  cent  also.  But  this 
provision  does  not  pievent  the  Legislature  of  the  new  State 
from  taxing  the  wild  land  at  two  per  cent,  and  the  improved 
lands  at  six  per  cent.  If  however  tl^ie  Legislature  of  the  new 
Slate  do  this  in  relation  to  the  lands  of  resident  proprietors, 
they  are  obliged  to  do  the  same  in  relation  to  the  lands  of  non- 
resident proprietors.  This  (he  said)  was  his  construction  of  the 
provision  in  the  act  alluded  to,  and  he  hoped  therefore  the 
amendment  proposed  would  be  adopted — he  was  also  in  favor 
of  it  because  it  contained  what  was  agreeable  to  the  feelings 
and  expectations  of  the  people.  • 

Mr.  Holmes  said  he  was  much  pleased  with  the  proposition, 
but  he  would  suggest  an  alteration  in  the  proposed  amendment, 
which  is,  that  taxes  on  uncultivated  lands  shall  never  be  appor- 
tioned less  on  their  value  tLan  on  cultivated.  My  object  is,  said 
Mr.  H.  that  the  Legislature  should  never  assess  less  on  unculti- 
vated lands,  but  I  would  give  them  the  power  to  assess  more. 
We  may  find  it  good  policy  to  tax  lands  in  the  hands  of  non- 
resident proprietors  high. 

Col.  Moody  objected  to  the  amendment  of  the  motion — it 
might  be  the  cause  of  injustice,  and  give  rise  to  unfounded  fears. 

Mr.  Holmes  replied,  I  would  retain  the  power  to  tax  over- 
grown speculators  more  than  six  per  cent.  It  may  become  ne- 
cessary to  tax  them  so.  Uncultivated  lands  may  be  surrounded 
by  those  that  are  cultivated,  and  will  thus  increase  in  value  by 
the  labor  of  others.  The  proposition  holds  out  no  false  colours. 
I  avow  my  meaning  to  be,  to  have  the  power  of  taxing  those 
lands  more  than  six  percent,   if  we  find  it  necessary. 

Mr.  Wilkins  said,  all  he  wanted  was  a  just  and  equal  mode 
of  taxing  property — nothing  more.  He  wished  the  uncultivated 
and  improved  lands  to  be  put  upon  an  equal  footing,  and  de- 
clined altering  his  motion,  as  suggested  by  Mr.  Holmes. 

Judge  Cony  observed  that  he  presumed  the  debates  were 
nearly  closed,  that  the  final  question  was  soon  to  be  taken  on 
the  engrossed  constitution,  but  a  motion  was  made  to  add  anoth- 
er section — it  contains  an  important  provision,  and  ought  to  be 
duly  considered — if  he  understood  its  import,  and  its  olject,  it 
was  to  prescribe  a  rule  for  the  eqxiai  and  just  apportionment  of 
State  taxes  on  real  estate.  Sir,  taxes  ought  to  be  equal  accord- 
ing to  a  fair  apprisa!  of  the  property  taxed  :  all  classes  of  our 
citizens  will  acquiesce  in  such  a  rule — those  who  pay  a  small 
23 


266 

proportion,  and  those  in  (he  class  to  which  he  belonged,  not 
really  necessitous,  and  yet  not  far  from  it,  would  be  satisfied, 
and  I'he  rich  and  the  opulent,  if  not  satisfied,  they  ought  to  be  so. 
Under  these  impressions  he  should  vote  in  favor  of  the  motion 
made  by  the  gentleman  from  New-Charlestown.  But,  Sir,  the 
amendment  to  this  motion,  proposed  by  the  member  from  Alfred, 
the  Hon.  Mr.  Holmes,  he  could  not  support. — It  contains  a 
principle,  avowedly,  as  he  himself  has  explained  it,  authorizing 
the  Legislature  to  levy  unequal,  ought  we  not  to  say  unjust^ 
taxes  on  real  estate— proptriy  held  the  most  sacred  ;  and  be- 
cause it  may  happen  to  be  held  by  non-residents.  A  principle, 
Sir,  equally  obnoxious  and  opposed  both  to  justice  and  to  sound 
policy.  Admit  this  amendment,  and  we  depreciate  the  value 
of  our  public  lands  fifty  per  cent.  From  the  sale  of  those  lands 
public  credit  will  be  sustained,  our  treasury  replenished,  our 
colleges  and  seminaries  of  learning  endowed,  and  olher  objects 
uf  public  utility  fostered.  Admit  this  amendment  and  we  point 
a  dagger  to  the  vitals  of  the  constifution.  If  the  members  of 
that  honorable  body  viewed  it  in  the  light  that  he  did,  he  felt 
confident  they  would  reject   it. 

The  motion  of  Mr.  Wikins  then  passed  in  the  affirmative  near- 
ly unanimously,  and  the  section  passed  as  engrossed. 

The  remaining  articles  of  the  constitution  were  reported  by 
the  revising  committee,  as  being  correctly  engrossed,  and  the 
same  were  severally  read  and  passed. 

The  constitution  having  been  passed  upon,  Mr.  Holmes  arose 
and  said,  Mr.  President — I  hope.  Sir,  every  gentleman  in  this 
Convention  feels  the  importance  of  the  vote  he  is  about  to  give. 
I  hope  each  member  feels  the  weight  of  hU  responsibility  and 
character  as  depending  on  his  vote.  The  question  to  be  decid- 
ed is,  whether  we  shall  receive  or  reject  the  constitution,  which 
has  now  been  completed  ;  and,  Sir.  I  do  not  fear  ihe  result.  I 
see  here  men  from  all  par4h  of  our  State,  who  would  do  honor  to 
any  country  ;  and  I  never  saw  men  who  wished  to  conduct  with 
more  correctness  end  deliberation  than  have  been  exhibited  on 
this  occasion.  The  only  inquiry  wilh  all  has  been,  what  is 
light?  The  Delegates  came  tcgelber,  all  wishing  to  peiform  the 
same  thins; — to  tbrm  a  constitution  which  should  s(cure  and 
promote  the  best  interests  of  the  whole.  Sir,  I  have  been  de- 
lighted and  amazed  at  the  spectacle  !  During  the  whole  of  our 
session,  I  have  seen  a  spirit  which  has  done  honor  to  the  Con- 
vention. I  never  saw  an  assembly  come  together  with  better 
feelings^  or  part  with  better  ftelings.     None  of  us  can  s^y,  this 


267 

is  my  constitution — every  one  has  sacrificed  his  private  opin* 
ions  to  the  general  guod.  And  I  hope,  Sir,  this  spirit  will  be 
carried  through.  I  hope  no  one  will  think  he  is  here  for  a  par- 
ticular object,  but  that  in  our  final  vote,  we  shall  be  unanimous. 

What  an  event  is  this  for  the  world — a  body  of  men,  delib* 
crating  on  the  first  principles  of  a  free  government,  giving  up 
their  feelings  ou  the  altar  of  patriotisin  !  Where  is  the  people 
who  would  not  be  delighted  with  the  view  ?  How  would  the 
nations  of  the  world  rejjice  at  the  exercise  of  the  right  I  Let 
Kings  and  Etnperors  envy  us  the  happiness  of  our  lot  1  It  is  not 
nece?sary  to  recapitulate  the  result  of  our  labors.  I  will  only 
allude  to  the  genera!  principles  of  the  constitution.  The  au- 
thority of  the  public  will — the  right  to  personal  security — free- 
dv)m  of  worship — the  right  to  speak  and  publish  his  sentiments 
secured  to  every  citizen  and  to  justify  by  giving  the  truth  in 
evidence — a  right  to  bear  arms — personal  protection  of  his 
properly — the  right  to  elect  and  to  be  elected — a  balance  in 
the  two  Houses  of  the  Legislature — an  Executive  guarded  from 
the  exercise  of  oppression,  but  vvidi  the  power  to  do  right — an 
independent  Judiciary,  responsible  to  the  people — the  interven- 
tion of  a  jury  in  all  criminal  prosecutions.  With  these  princi- 
ples established — with  such  a  constitution — proud  we  may  not 
i^e-r-for  it  is  not  for  fallible  man  to  boast  of  the  labor  of  his 
hands,  or  to  confide  in  their  stability.  The  generations  of  man- 
kind are  constantly  changing  and  propelling  each  other  into 
oblivion.  It  would  be  singular  if  we  should  all  meet  again  \n 
this  world.  To-morrow's  sun  will  see  us  scattered  to  the  four 
winds  of  Heaven,  and  the  places  that  now  see  us  shall  see  us 
all  no  more  forever.  But,  Sir,  with  proud  satisiiiction  may  we 
reflect  how  cordially  we  have  acted  together,  and  now  let  us 
look  to  that  Being,  on  whom  we  depend  for  all  our  blesiings,  to 
have  us  under  his  holy  keeping,  and  to  preserve  for  us  ever- 
lasting felicity. 

Th«  question  was  now  put  upon  the  acceptance  of  the  con- 
stitution for  the  New  State,  as  reported  by  the  committee,  and 
now  engrossed  as  amended,  and  the  same  passed  in  the  affima- 
tive,  two  hundred  and  thirty-six  members  voting  in  the  affirma- 
tive, and  thirty  \n  the  negative. 

And  the  Convention  g*  Adjourned. 

FRIDAY,  OCT.   29. 

Gen.  Wingate  submitted  the  following  resolutions: — 
Rescloedy  Thai  the  thanks  of  the  Convention  be  presented 


268 

to  ibe  Rev.  clergymen,  who  have  performed  religious  exercises 
during  our  Session,  for  the  able,  devout  and  satistactory  manner 
in  which  they  have  discharged  their  duty. 

Resolved.,  That  the  thanks  of  this  Convention  be  presented  to 
the  First  Parish  in  Portland,  for  the  use  of  the  meeting-house  of 
said  parish,  gratuitously  and  generously  furnished  by  them  for 
the  accommodation  of  the  Convention. 

The  above  resolutions  were  unanimously  adopted. 

The  Secretary  was  directed  to  notify  Hon.  Albion  K  Parris 
and  Ashur  Ware,  Esq.  of  their  election  as  Treasurer  and  Secre- 
tary pro  tempore. 

Resolved,  That  the  constitution  adopted  by  this  Convention 
be  published  and  sent  to  the  several  towns,  districts  and  planta- 
tions within  the  District  of  Maine  ;  and  that  the  inba'  ilants, 
thereof  qualified  by  law,  be  requTed  lo  assemble  in  iheir  re- 
spective towns,  <^c.  on  the  first  Monday  of  December  next,  to 
give  in  their  votes  in  writing,  expressing  their  approbation  or 
disapprobation  of  said  constitution. 

Resolved,  That  the  Secretary  of  State  pro  iemvore  and  the 
Secretary  of  this  Convention  b^  directed  lo  superintend  the 
printing  of  the  constitution,  and  also  tl)e  j-fvera!  le-olves  which 
have  been  passed  by  this  Convenliori  a*ui  ordered  to  be  pub- 
lished. 

Resolved,  That  the  Treasurer  be  authorised  to  borrow  such 
sum  of  money,  as  may  be  necessary  to  pay  the  members  of  the 
Convention. 

Resolved,  That  the  Secretary  of  State  pro  tempore  be  re- 
quested to  procure  from  the  office  of  the  Secretary  of  State  of 
the  United  States,  authenticated  copies  of  the  reports  of  the 
several  Boards  of  Commissioners,  relative  to  the  boundaries  and 
lin)its  of  the  State  of  Maine,  in  that  department;  and  likewise 
authenticated  copies  of  all  grants,  and  confirmation  of  grants, 
relative  to  the  title  and  boundaries  of  the  said  State,  in  the 
office  of  the  Secretary  of  Stale  of  the  Commonwealth  of  Massa- 
chusetts ;  and  that  they  be  placed  in  the  office  of  the  Secretary 
of  State  of  this  State. 

Resolved,  That  the  application  to  Congress,  for  the  admission 
of  the  State  of  Maine  into  the  Union,  be  signed  by  the  Presi- 
dent, and  forwarded  to  Congress  by  the  Senator  and  the  Repre- 
sentatives in  Congress  from  Maine. 

Resolved,  That  Judge  Parris,  Mr.  Preble,  and  the  Hon.  Mr. 
Whitman,  be  a  committee  to  prepare  a  proper  form  of  a  return 


269 

of  votes  on  the  question  of  the  acceptance  of  the  constitution,  to 
be  forwarded  to  the  selectmen  of  the  several  towns,  and  the 
assessors  of  the  several  plantations. 

The  committee  to  whom  had  been  committed  the  subject  of 
the  location  of  the  Seat  of  Government,  and  to  designate  the 
place  where  the  first  mesling  of  the  Legislature  shall  be  held, 
Reported,  that  they  had  attended  to  the  duties  assigned  tliem, 
and  submitted  the  following  Resolution  as  taken  into  a  new 
draft ; — 

Resolved,  That  Portland,  be  the  place  for  the  first  meeting 
of  the  Legislature  for  the  State  of  Maine  ;  which  Resolve  was 
read  and  accepted — 175  members  voting  in  the  affirmative,  and 
70  in  the  negative. 

Previous  to  this  vote  being  taken,  Mr.  Dearborn  of  HalloweU, 
moved  to  strike  out  all  the  report  of  the  committee,  after  the 

word  resolved,  and  insert  "that be  a  committee  to  designate 

the  place  and  procure  suitable  accommodations  for  the  first  meet- 
ing of  the  Legislature  of  Maine,  and  for  the  organization  of  the 
gv)vernment  thereof,  with  directions  to  fix  upon  some  place  in  the 
county  of  Keunebeck,  and  to  report  their  doings  to  the  Conven- 
tion at  their  next  session." 

Mr.  Dearborn  observed,  that  he  made  this  motion  for  the  pur- 
pose of  bringing  the  question,  at  once,  fairly  before  the  Con« 
vention,  without  involving  any  conflicting  interests  of  towns  in 
Kennebeck  ;  and  stated  that  as  it  was  pretty  generally  under- 
stood that  this  question  should  be  settled  without  debate,  he 
wished  it  to  be  taken  by  yeas  and  nays.  A  sufficient  number 
not  rising  in  favor  of  calling  the  yeas  and  nays,  the  Convention 
was  returned  by  the  Monitors,  82  voting  in  favor  of  the  amend- 
ment, and    156  against  it. 

Resolved,  That  the  constitution  as  accepted  l)y  this  Conven- 
tion, be  signed  by  the  President,  and  countersigned  by  the 
Secretary  ;  and  that  the  Secretary  cau^e  the  names  of  those 
members  who  have  signed  the  constitution  to  be  entered  on  the 
journal,  and  that  the  same  be  annexed  to  the  printed  consti- 
tution. 

The  committee  on  the  expenses  of  the  Convention,  exclusive 
of  the  Pay  Roil,  made  a  report  which  was  read,  and 

Ordered,  That  the  Treasurer  be  requested  to  pay  to  th^  sev- 
eral persons  mentioned  in  said  report  the  sums  set  agiinst  their 
names  respectively  ;  amounting  in  the  vvhole  to  the  sum  of 
five  hundred  and  twelve  dollars  and  twenty-nine  cents. 

23*  Adjourned^ 


270 

AFTERJVOOJV,^Ordered,  that  the  Treasurer  be  directed 
to  pay  John  Merrick,  Esq.  orHallowell,  the  sum  of  twenty 
dollars,  for  services  by  him  rendered  ;  as  by  his  account  exam- 
ined and  allevved. 

On  motion  of  the  President, 

Resolved  unanimously ^  That  the  thanks  of  this  Convention  be 
presented  to  the  committee,  appointed  to  prepare  and  report  a 
constitution  or  frame  of  government  for  the  new  State,  for  the 
ability  and  unwearied  attention  bestowed  upon  the  subject 
committed  to  them. 

The  committee  on  the  Pay  Roll,  made  a  report  by  which  it 
appeared  that  the  travel  and  attendance  of  the  members  of  this 
Convention  amounts  to  the  sum  of  which  was  ac- 

cepted,  and  Ordered-^Thai  the  Treasurer  be  directed  to  pay 
the  same. 

Resolved,  That  an  additional  number  of  copies  of  the  Con- 
stitution be  printed,  in  order  that  the  Selectmen,  Town  Clerks 
and  Delegates,  be  furnished  with  four  copies  each,  instead  of 
one  copy  each,  as  before  provided. 

Agreeably  to  the  Resolution  offered  in  the  morning,  the  con- 
stitution was  signed  by  the  Honorable  President,  countersign- 
ed by  the  Secretary,  and  subscribed  by  the  members  in  the 
follovving  manner : 

Dune  in  Convention,  October  29,   1819. 

WILLIAM  KING, 

President  of  the  Convention^  and  member  from  Batfu 
ROBERT  C.  VOSE,  Secretary. 

[The  names  of  the  Delegates  followed.] 

Voted,  That  when  the  Convention  adjourns,  it  be  to  meet  at 
the  Ccuit  House,  in  Portland,  on  the  first  Wednesday  of  Jan- 
uary next,  at  eleven  o'clock  in  the  forenoon. 

Arjjourned  accordingly. 

Attest,     ROBERT  C.  VOSE,  Secretary, 


SECOND  SESSION. 


PORTLAND,    WEDNESDAY,   JANUARY  5,    1820. 

Agreeably  to  the  adjournment,  the  Convention  this  day  as- 
sembled, and  there  being  a  quorum  present  they  proceeded  i% 
business. 

Judge  Parris  submitted  the  following  resolutions,  which  were 
severally  read  and  passed,  the  names  of  the  committees  being 
afterwards  inserted  :— 

Resoled,  That  the  committee  appointed  to  receive  the  returns 
from  the  several  towns  and  plantations,  be  directed  to  take  from 
the  Post-Office,  such  returns  as  have  been  there  received  since 
the  first  day  of  January  instant. 

Resolved,  Thai  Messrs.  Parris,  Thacher,  ofBiddeford,  Cony, 
Dole,  Col.  Pond,  Dickenson,  Stetson,  of  Hampden,  Dr.French, 
of  St.  Albans,  and  Towle,  of  Porter,  be  a  committee  to  examine 
the  returns  of  votes  from  the  several  towns  and  plantations,  on 
the  constitution  prepared  by  this  Convention,  and  that  the  com- 
mittee report  the  whole  number  given  in,  and  what  number 
were  in  favor,  and  what  number  were  opposed  to  said  constitu- 
tion. 

Resolved,  Thai  Col.  Lewis,  of  Gorham,  Judge  Ames,  of  Bath, 
Mr.  Campbell,  of  Wintbrop,  Col.  Atherton  and  Mr.  Vance,  a 
committee  to  consider  and  report  in  what  manner  the  adoption 
of  the  constitution  and  the  admission  of  Maine  into  the  Union 
shall  be  announced  to  the  people. 

On  motion  of  Gen    Chandler, 

Resolved,  That  Messrs.  Wood,  of  Lebanon,  Allen,  Foxcraft, 
Gutter  and  Snow,  be  a  committee  to  inqune  into  the  expedien- 
cy of  furnishing  each  town  and  plantation  in  Maine  with  blank 
forms  and  returns  ©f  votes  for  Governor,  Senators  and  Repre- 
sentatives, which  may  be  given  in  on  the  first  Monday  of  April 
next. 

On  motion  of  Col.  Atherton, 

Resolved,  That  the  Hon.  Asa  Clapp,  Matthew  Cobb,  Isaac 
Jbley,  Arthur  McLellan,  Barrett  Potter,  Robert  llsley  and  Levi 
Cutter,  Esq'rs.  be  a  committee    to   provide   suitable    buildings 


272 

and  accommodations  for  the  meeting  of  the  Governor  and  Coun- 
cil, the  Senate  and  House  of  Re[)resentatives  of  the  State  of 
Maine,  at  their  first  session,  to  be  holden  in  Portland  on  the  last 
Wednesday  of  May  next. 


THURSDAY,  JAN.   6. 

Hon.  Mr.  Parris,  chaitman  of  the  committee  appointed  to 
examine  the  returns  of  votes  from  the  several  towns  and  planta- 
tions in  Maine,  on  the  constitution  prepared  by  this  Conven- 
tion, having  attended  the  service  assigned  them,  made  the  fol- 
low ing  report  : — 

That  the  whole  number  of  votes  legally  and  seasonably  re- 
turned, is  9837,  of  which  9050  are  in  favor  of  said  constitution, 
and  796  are  opposed.  And  the  committee  further  report,  that 
the  whole  number  of  votes  returned,  were  10,899,  of  which 
10,095  were  in  favor  of  said  constitution,  and  873  were  opposed 
— which  report  was  read  and  accepted. 

Resolved^  That  the  Treasurer  of  this  Convention  be  and 
hereby  is  authorised  to  borrow,  on  the  credit  of  the  State  of 
Maine,  the  sum  of  ^4000,  to  defray  the  expenditures  of  the 
Convention. 

Rcsolvedy  That be  a  committee  lo  examine  the  books, 

accounts  and  vouchers  of  the  Treasurer,  with  the  view  to  an 
adjustment,  and  report  tbreon.  [Gen,  Wingate,  Mr.  llsley,and 
Mr.  Gage,  were  appointed  said  committee.] 

Resolved^  That be  a  committee  on  the  Pay  Roll,  and 

that  ihey  be  instructed  to  make  up  the  Pay  Roll,  including  to- 
morrow. [Gen  Irish,  Co;.  Lewis,  and  Mr.  Dearborn,  of  H. 
were  appointed  said  coinmiltee.] 

Resolved,  That  the  Secretary  of  State  pro  tempore,  be  and 
he  hereby  is  instructed  to  examine  and  asceitain  what.docu- 
ments  and  papers,  in  the  ofiSce  of  the  Secretary  of  the  Common- 
wealih  of  Mafsacliusetts,  or  elsewhere,  are  of  impoitance  for 
the  use  of  tlie  Legislature  of  Maine,  and  that  he  procure  the 
same  or  authenticated  copies  thereof. 

Resolved,  Tba^t  the  Treasurer  of  this  Convt  ntion  be  instruct- 
ed to  pay  over  to  the  Secretary  of  Slate  pro  tempoie,  the  sum  of 
glOO,  to  be  accounted  for  by  said  Secretary  to  the  Legislature 
of  Maine. 

Agreeably  to  assignment,  the  Convention  proceeded  to  the 
choice  of  a  person,  who,  in  case  of  the  death.,  or  other  disqualifi- 
cation of  the  President  of  this  Convention,  before  the  election 


273 

and  qualification  of  the  Governor  under  the  Constitution  of 
Maine,  shall  have  all  the  powers  and  perform  ail  the  duties 
which  the  President  of  this  Convention  shall  have  anil  perform 
— and  Mr.  Preble,  Judge  Thacher,  and  Mr.  Herrick,  of  Bow- 
doinham,  were  appointed  a  committee  to  receive,  count  and 
sort  the  votes  ;  when  it  appeared  that  the  whole  number  of  votes 
thrown  was  168:  Hon.  John  Chandler  had  110  votes,  and 
was  declared  elected. 

Thpy  then  proceeded  to  the  choice  of  a  person  to  succeed 
the  Secretary  of  State  pro  tem.  in  case  ot  the  deaih  or  disqualifi- 
cation of  the  present  incumbent,  when  it  was  found  that  the 
whole  number  of  votes  was  174 — Robert  C.  Vc^e,  Esq.  had 
172  votes  and  was  chosen. 

Col.  Lewis,  from  the  committee  appointed  yesterday,  report- 
ed the  following  resolution  :  — 

Resolved,  That  the  Secretary  of  this  Convention  be  directed 
to  publish  in  the  several  newspapers  printed  in  Maine,  the  cer- 
tified result  of  the  votes  from  the  several  towns  and  plantations 
in  Maine  upon  the  adoption  of  the  constitution  as  reported  to 
the  Convefjtion — and  that  after  the  15th  day  ol  March  next,  on 
condition  that  the  proposed  Slate  of  Maine  shah  have  been  ad- 
mitted into  the  Union,  the  President  be  requested  to  isj^ue  his 
proclamation  to  the  people  of  the  Slate  of  Maine,  making  known 
such  admission  ;  and  that  the  constitution  proposed  by  the 
Convention,  and  adopted  by  the  people,  is  the  constitution  and 
frame  of  government  for  the  State.     Accepted. 

The  committee  appointed  for  the  purpose  reported  forms  of 
returns  of  votes  for  Governor,  Senators  and  Repret<entatives— 
and  the  Secretary  was  directed  to  superintend  the  printing  and 
forward  thefu  to  the  several  towns  and  plantations 

Agreeably  to  assignment,  the  Convention  proceeded  to  the 
choice  of  a  person  to  attend  the  Legislature  and  Executive,  and 
address  the  throne  of  Grace  by  prayer,  at  the  organization  of 
the  government  of  the  new  State-— and  the  Hon.  Judge  Cony, 
Re?.  Mr.  Titcomb.and  the  Rev  Mr.  Locke,of  Chesterville,were 
appointed  a  committee  to  receive,  count  and  sort  the  votes — 
when  it  appeared  that  the  whole  number  of  votes  given,  was 
168  :  the  Rev.  Mr.  Nichols,  of  Portland,  had  133  votes,  and 
he  was  declared  chosen — and  thereupon  ordered,  that  the  dele- 
gates from  the  town  of  Portland  be  requested  to  notify  the  ReV" 
ereod  gentleman  of  his  election. 


274 

TRIDAY,  JAKT.  7. 

Gen.  Wingate,  Chairman  of  ihe  committee  appointed  to  ex- 
amine the  book  accounts  and  vouchers  of  ihe  treasurer.submitted 
the  following  report : — Ttiatil  appears  by  the  accounts  present- 
ed to  the  committee,  by  the  Hon.  A.  K.  Parris,  Treasurer  of  this 
Cohvenfion,  accompanying  this  report,  he  has  received  the  sum 
of  g  19,742  12  cents  ;  that  he  has  paid  to  the  members  of  this 
Convention  for  their  travel  and  attendance,  the  first  session,  the 
sum  of  ^16,000,  and  for  acc()ur)ts  allowed,  interest,  aLd  inci- 
dental expenses,  at  the  first  session,  ^782  29  cents,  leaving  a 
balance  in  the  hands  of  the  Treasurer,  ol^2960  83  cents,  tu  be 
applied  in  part  payment  or"  the  expenses  of  Ihe  present  session 
ot  the  Conveniion.  Tlie  Pay  Roll. Tor  tlie  present  session,  not 
having  bee!)  placed  in  the  hand?>  ol  Ihe  'i'reasurer,  the  commit- 
tee have  not  been  enabled  to  adjust  the  accourjts  of  the  expen- 
ditures of  the  present  session,  and  iheneiore  recommeiid  the  pas- 
sage of  ihe  following  resolves, which  are  respecifully  submitted  : 

Resolved,  That  the  Treasurer  of  this  Convention  be  directed 
to  accout)t  with  the  first  Legislature  of  Maine,  for  the  balance  of 
money  remaining  in  his  hands,  after  defraying  the  appropria- 
tions m^de  by  this  Convention. 

Resolved^  That  the  Treasurer  be  allowed, as  compensation  for 
his  services,  the  one  half  of  one  per  centum  on  all  njonies  paid 
cut  by  him.  under  the  direction  ot  the  Conveniion. 

Which  report  and  resolutions  were  severally  read  and  ac- 
cepted. 

Gen.  Irish,  chairman  of  the  committee  on  the  Pay  Roll, made 
a  report,  by  which  it  appeared  that  the  amount  of  travel  and 
attendance  due  the  several  member?  the  present  session,  a- 
raounted  in  the  whole  to  the  sum  of  ^4216,which  was  read,  and 
ordered  that  the  Treasurer  of  this  Convention  be  authorised  to 
pay  the  several  persons  borne  on  the  Pay  Roll,  the  sums  set  a- 
gainst  their  names  respectively. 

Mr  Moody.ofHailowell,  chairman  of  the  committee  to  whom 
was  referred  the  resolutions  submitted  yesterday  by  the  Hon. 
Judge  Thacher,  reported  the  following  resolution  as  taken  into 
a  new  draft : — 

Resolved,  That  the  President  of  this  Convention  cause  to  be 
transmitted  to  the  Supreme  Executive  of  the  Commonwealth  of 
Massachusetts,  one  attested  manuscript  copy  of  the  Constitu- 
tion of  the  State  of  Maine,  and  of  the  reports  of  the  committee 
appointed  to  examine  the  returns  of  the  votes  of  the  several 


275 

towns  and  plantations  upon  the  question  of  the  adoption  of  the 
constitution,  and  also  an  attested  manuscript  copy  of  the  pro- 
ceedings of  this  Convention,  which  resolution  was  read  and  ac- 
cepted. 

The  Hon.  Judge  Thacher  read  in  his  place  the  following 
resolution  : — 

Resolved,  That  the  thanks  of  this  Convention  be  presented 
to  the  Hon.  William  King,  for  the  dignified  and  impartial  man- 
ner in  which  he  has  discharged  the  duties  of  the  chair  during 
our  deliberations — which  resolution  was  again  read  by  the 
Secretary,  and  unanimously  adopted. 

The  Hon.  President    then  made  the  following  reply  ; — 
<'  Gentlemen  of  the  Convention, 

*'  For  the  sentiments  which  you  have  expressed  I  feel  par- 
ticularly grateful ;  they  come  I  perceive  from  an  old  and  re- 
spected friend,  from  whom  political  considerations  have  perhaps 
too  long  separated  me- -my  friend  on  this  occasion  does  not  re- 
member them  ;  they  are  therefore  erased  from  my  recollection 
forever, 

'*  The  constitution,  gentlemen,  which  you  presented  with  so 
much  unanimity  to  our  fellow  citizens,  an  unexampled  majority 
have  adopted.  Your  business  has  therefore  now  terminated  ;  to 
the  public  it  has  been  most  useful,  to  yourselves  most  honora- 
ble— being  now  enrolled  as  the  fathers  of  the  constitution. 

*'  Permit  me,  gentlemen,  to  hope  that  the  constitution  with 
which  God  has  been  pleased  through  jou  to  bless  us,  may  long 
preirerve  the  liberties  and  promote  the  happiness  of  all  our  fellow 
citizens,  and  that  tor  your  services  you  may  not  only  receive 
the  respect  of  the  virtuous  of  your  own  times,  but  the  regard  of 
posterity.'' 

The  business  of  the  Convention  bavins;  been  gone  through— 
on  motion  of  the  Hon  Judge  Cony — Foted,  that  the  Conven- 
tion adjourn  without  day.  Adjourned  accordingly. 


APPENDIX. 


The  following  papers  are  designed  to  illustrate  the  origin  and 
progress  of  the  long  agitated  question  of  the  Separation  of  Maine, 
^vbich  have  become  more  interesting  since  that  event  has  taken 
place-  It  was  intended  to  include  every  document  **  of  pith 
and  moment"  relating  to  this  subject,  which  could  be  collected  ; 
but  they  were  found  to  be  so  bulky  that  it  would  have  swelled 
the  book  to  an  inconvenient  size,  and  indeed  are  sufficient  for  a 
volume  of  themselves.  Of  course,  it  became  necessary  to  make 
a  selection  of  such  as  were  deemed  most  valuable  and  interesting, 
especially  those  of  an  earlier  date.  These,  to  most  of  the  pres- 
ent inhabitants  of  the  State,  must  be  new  and  curious,  as  they 
exhibit  the  different  views  that  have  been  taken  of  this  question 
at  different  and  distant  periods.  Thirty-five  years  have  elapsed 
since  it  was  first  started  ;  during  the  whole  of  which  time,there 
was  no  long  intermission  of  attempts  to  bring  it  about.  The 
transactions  of  a  recent  date  are  more  within  recollection,  or 
their  records  accessible  ;  and  it  is  therefore  of  less  consequence 
to  preserve  tbem,  than  those  which  were  sliding  into  oblivion. 

The  first  of  these  papers  is  an  account  of  the  two  earliest 
Conventiohs  which  were  held  in  Maine  on  the  subject  of  Sepa- 
ration, li  is  extracted  from  the  '•'' Collections  of  the  Massachu- 
setts Historical  Society^'^^  vol.4,  page  25  c^.  seq,  and  although  the 
author's  name  dot-s  not  appear,  his  authority  is  doubtless  to  be 
relied  on,  or  it  would  not  have  obtained  a  place  in  those  collec- 
tions. Notwithstanding  the  subject  died  away,  after  these  un- 
successful  efforts,  with  the  expiration  of  the  Convention  in  1787 
or  8,  it  appears  again  to  have  been  revived,  so  early  as  1791, 
when  memorials  were  gotten  up  and  presented  to  the  Legisla- 
ture in  the  winter  session  of  1792.  The  question  was  there 
considered  a  very  serious  one,  and  ended  in  a  recommendation 
to  the  people  of  Maine  to  vote  on  the  subject  at  their  town  meet- 
ings in  M'^y  ensuing — when  they  decided  against  it.  It  was 
not  however,  suffered  long  to  sleep,  as  will  be  seen  by  the  doc- 
uments relating  to  the  Conventions  held  at  Portland  in  1793  and 
1794,which  were  among  the  papers  of  the  late  Judge  Dummer, 
24 


278 

who  was  Secretary  of  the  last  mentioned  Convention,  the  pro- 
ceedings of  which,  it  is  believed,  have  never  before  been  pub- 
lished. This  Convention,  it  appears,  was  adjourned  from  June 
to  October,  and  from  October  to  June  28th,  1796,  when  an 
*'  Address"  was  prepared  and  signed  by  *'  William  Gorham, 
President,'*  and  attested  by  **  Salmon  Chase,  Secretary,  pro 
tern,  in  the  absence  of  Mr,  Dummer,^^  which  makes  a  pamphlet 
of  31  pages.  They  therein  request  the  people  to  "consider  the 
subject  at  their  annual  meeting  in  April  next,"  and  adjourned 
to  receive  the  votes.  What  was  the  issue  of  this  request  or 
the  adjourned  meeting,  we  have  no  records  to  shew.  Many 
subsequent  trials  were  made  to  effect  a  separation,  prior  to  the 
Brunswick  Convention  in  1816;  but  they  all  proved  abortive, 
until  the  late  experiment,  which  has  been  made  at  a  most  favor- 
able period— the  effects  of  which  will  be  such,  we  sincerely 
hope,  as  to  dispel  the  apprehensions  of  the  most  cautious,  and 
realize  the  anticipations  of  the  most  sanguine. 

The  proceedings  ffiwo  Conventions,  held  at  Portland^  to  consider 
the  expediency  of  a  separate  Government  in  the  District  of 
Maine. 

[Collected  from  the  original  Files  and  Records.J 

From  the  latter  part  of  the  year  1784, to  the  autumn  of  1766, 
a  separation  of  the  territory  east  of  Pascataqua  river,  from  the 
government  of  Massachusetts,  was  a  general  topic  of  conversa- 
tion among  the  inhabitants.  During  this  time,  the  Falmouth 
Gazette,  then  the  only  newspaper  that  was  published  in  the 
District  of  Maine,  was  crowded  with  addresses  to  the  people  up- 
on the  subject.  Clergymen,  physicians,  lawyers,  and  farmers, 
seemed  engaged  in  accelerating  the  event.  They  all  employed 
both  their  pens  and  their  private  influence,  in  convincing  their 
fellow  citizens  of  the  propriety  and  advantages  of  becoming  a 
distinct  member  of  the  Union. 

At  the  time  I  now  speak  of,  there  were  also  a  number  of  res- 
pectable opposers  of  this  measure.  These,  generally  speaking, 
were  either  those  gentlemen  who  were  concerned  in  trade,  and 
feared  an  interruption  in  their  commercial  connexions,  or  such 
as  held  offices  under  the  government,  and  feared  the  consequen- 
ces of  a  new  appointment.  In  this,  as  in  most  other  cases  of 
political  experiment,  the  opinion  of  each  party  was  decided  by 
a  prospect  of  their  own,  rather  than  the  public  interest.  To  this, 
however,  there  were  doubtless  some  exceptions.  It  is  difficult 
to  discover  the  secret  motives  by  which  mankind  are  actuated : 


279 

but  from  a  personal  acquaintance  with  the  views  and  principleu 
of  the  leaders  upon  both  sides  of  the  question,  I  think  1  may  be 
excused  in  saying,  that  they  were  both  in  some  degree  inflaenc- 
ed  by  a  prospect  of  private  advantage. 

When  the  subject  first  caine  before  the  public,  the  great  bo* 
dy  of  the  people  seemed  to  be  indifferent  as  to  the  event ;  and 
although  they  afterwards  became  more  interested,  they  never 
exceeded  the  bounds  of  moderate  zeal.  They  were  under  no 
oppression.  Many  inconvenience?,  arising  from  their  remote 
situation  from  the  seat  of  government,  might  doubtless  have  been 
removed  by  a  well -administered  government  of  their  own.  But 
to  bring  them  into  the  measure  upon  this  ground,  there  vvas  not 
a  single  material  to  work  with,  but  reason,  and  the  dispassion- 
ate application  of  it  to  their  particular  circumstances.  What 
was  the  probability  of  success  from  the  use  of  this, I  leave  to  the 
judgment  of  those  who  are  best  acquainted  with  the  instruments 
by  which  the  uninformed  are  commonly  governed. 

I  shall  not  attempt  to  collect  ihe  arguments  which  were  ad- 
dressed to  the  people,  by  those  who  wrote  in  the  Falmouth  Ga- 
^-ette  ;  because,  to  exhibit  a  complete  view  of  them  would  re- 
quire a  lengthy  discussion,  and  because  I  shall  have  occasion  to 
mention  the  substance  of  them  among  the  doings  of  the  Conven- 
tion, which  were  collected  and  published  under  the  title  of 
'*  grievances.'* 

Atter  the  subject  had  been  lengthily  and  thoroughly  examin* 
ed,  in  public  and  in  private,  it  became  necessary  to  devise  and 
adopt  some  plan,  which,  when  put  in  operation,  would  bring  the 
business  to  a  point.  With  respect  to  thi«,  there  was  some  di- 
versity oi  opinion.  Individuals  were  averse  tu  any  active  step, 
lest  they  should  be  congidered  as  officious.  The  great  extent  of 
ihe  district  rendered  it  extremely  difhcult  to  put  the  people  in 
motion,  in  any  regular  and  orderly  melSod.  At  length  a  num- 
ber of  persons  signed  a  paper,  and  gave  it  to  the  printers  of^lhe 
Falmoulh  Gazette,  requesting  them  to  publish  a  notification  to 
the  inhabitants  of  the  district,  to  meet  at  Falmouth,  for  the  pur- 
pose of  holding  a  conference  upon  the  proposed  separation.  This 
notification  was  accordingly  published  in  the  above  mentioned 
Gazette  of  the  I7th  of  September  and  1st  of  October,  1785,  and 
is  in  the  following  words,  "  Agreeable  to  a  request  made  and 
signed  by  a  large  and  respectable  number  of  persons  to  the 
printers  of  th)s  Gazette,  the  inhabitants  of  the  three  counties  of 
York,  Cumberland  and  Lincoln,  are  hereby  notified,  that  so  ma* 


280 

ny  of  them  as  are  inclined,  or  can  conveniently  attend,  are  re- 
quested  to  meet  at  the  meeting  house  of  the  Rev.  Messrs  Smith 
and  Deane,  in  Falmouth,  on  Wednesday  the  fifth  day  of  Octo- 
ber next,  to  join  in  a  conference,  then  and  there  to  be  held,  on 
the  proposal  of  having  the  said  counties  erected  into  a  separate 
GOVERNMENT  ;  and  if  it  should  be  thought  best,  to  form  some 
plan  for  collecting  the  sentiments  of  the  people  on  the  subject, 
and  pursue  some  orderly  and  regular  method  of  carrying  the 
same  into  effect." 

In  consequence  of  this  publication,  about  tliiriy  persons  from 
the  town  ot  Falmouth  and  its  vicinity  convened  at  the  time  and 
place  therein  appointed.  They  entered  upon  the  discussion  of 
their  business  ;  the  result  of  which  wa?,  that  a  circular  letter 
should  be  printed,  signed,  and  forwarded  by  a  committee  to  the 
several  towns  and  plantations  in  the  district,  requesting  them  to 
send  delegates  to  meet  in  a  Ci^nvenlion  to  be  held  at  the  time, 
place,  and  for  the  purpose  mentioned  in  the  circular  letter  ;  the 
copy  of  which  (with  the  names  of  the  committee)  may  be  seen 
in  the  appendix,  No.  I. 

In  this  manner  the  first  Convention  for  considering  this  im- 
portant subject,  was  brou2;ht  together.  When  we  consider  the 
difficulty  and  hazard  which  commonly  attended  the  assembling 
of  bodies  of  people,  for  the  avowed  purpose  of  determining  upon 
the  expediency  of  withdrawing  themselves  from  the  government 
they  are  under,  we  must  admit  that  the  method  adopted  in  this 
instance  was  very  unexceptionable.  There  was  an  open  appli- 
cation to  the  people,  to  attend,  or  not  attend  the  proposed  con- 
ference, as  they  saw  fit.  There  were  no  insinuations,  in  any 
manner,  propagated  to  the  prejudice  of  the  existing  government  ; 
but  on  the  contrary,  every  step  was  proposed  to  be  taken  in  an 
*•  orderly  and  peaceable  manner ;"  and  their  right  to  assemble 
in  this  manner,  they  considered  as  founded  on  the  first  clause  tf 
the  nineteenth  article  of  the  bill  of  rights.  Under  these  impres- 
sion*, the  Convention  proceeded  to  organize  themselves.  They 
accordingly  made  choice  of  the  Hon.  William  Gorham,  Esq,  for 
their  President,  and  Stephen  Longfellow,  jun  *  for  their  clerk. 
They  then  voted  to  choose  a  committee  to  examine  the  returns 
of  the  delegates,  who  reported  that  the  following  gentlemen 
were  duly  returned,  viz. 

COUNTY  OF  YORK. 

Wells,  John  Storer,  Esq. ;  Buxton,  Samuel  Knight,  Nathaniel 
Hill ;  Bronmjield,    Henry  Young    Brown,   Samuel   Haywood  ; 

•  Judge  Longfellow,  of  Gorham* 


2B1 

Pryehurg,  J o^Q[)h  Fry,  Esq.  Paul  Langdoo,  Daniel  Fessendea. 

Isaac  Walker,  Nathaniel  Merrill. 

COUNTY  OF  CUMBERLAND. 

Falmouth,  Peleg  Wadsworlh,  Ste|^)hen  Hall,  Samuel  Freeman, 
John  W:^i5e,  Enoch  llsley,  E^q'rs.  ;  Scarborough,  William 
Thompson,  E-q.  ;  Gorham  Edmund  Phiiiney,  William  Goriiam, 
Stephen  Longteliow,  juu.  ;  (.'upeEiizabeth,  J^mes  Leach  ;  J^Few- 
Gloucester,  J oim  Meui  I  ;  Gray,  Jedediah  Cobb. 
COUNTY  OF  LINCOLN. 

Georgetown,  Wiliinm  Liihgow,  E-q  Daniel  M'Fadden  ; 
Topskam,  Scimuel  Thompson,  E-q. ;  Newcastle,  Samuel  Nich- 
ols, E>q.  ;  Bristol,  William  Jones,  Esq.  ;  Hallo-well,  Daniel 
Coney  ;  Vassalborough ,  Dennis  Getchiil  ;  Winslow,  Zimri 
Haywood  ;  fVinthrop.  Jonathan  Whiting  ;  Plttstown,  Reuben 
Colburn  ;   Lewiston,  Lemuel  Cumings. 

Th-e  only  vole  ot  any  importance  that  was  passed  at  this  ses- 
sion L'f  tlu'  Convention  vvas,thal  •'  a  committee  of  nine  be  chos- 
en to  make  out  a  statement  of  the  grievances  the  three  coun- 
ties labour  under,  and  also  an  estimate  of  the  expense  of  a  sepa- 
rate i^overnment,  and  compare  the  same  with  the  expense  of  the 
government  we  are  now  under."  The  Convention  was  then  ad- 
journed ior  a  day,  in  order  to  receive  the  report  of  this  commit- 
tee, which  was  completed,  made  and  accepted,  and  together 
witjj  an  addition  to  the  report,  is  contained  in  the  appendix, 
No.  U.  This  report  was  ordered  to  be  printed,  signed  by  the 
president,  and  transmitted  to  the  people,  for  the  purposes  men- 
tioned in  the  vote,  inserted  in  the  above-mentioned  paper  at  the 
bottom  of  the  list  of  grievances.  The  Convention  was  then  ad- 
journed to  the  first  WV,dnesday  of  September  following. 

The  original  files  and  journals  of  this  session  contain  nothing 
more  than  what  has  been  mentioned,  that  respects  the  general 
subject.  But  il  may  not  be  amiss  to  mention  some  occurrences 
relative  to  their  mode  of  doing  the  business. 

A  motion  was  made  by  Mr.  Thompson,  of  Scarborough,  that 
the  mode  of  voting  should  be  by  towns.  This  motion  did  not 
obtain  ;  and  the  Convention  voted  that  each  delegate  should 
have  a  vote. 

The  town  of  Falmouth  had  made  choice  of  the  five  gentle*^ 
njen  whose  names  are  mentioned  in  the  list  of  delegates  for  that 
town,  and  then  adjourned  their  meeting  to  receive  the  leport  of 
a  comrailtee  which  they  had  appointed  to  prepare  iheir  instruc- 
ilions.  At  this  adjournment,  the  town  reconsidered  their  vote 
24* 


282 

lor  the  choice  of  delegate?,  dismissed  the  article  and  dissolved 
the  meeting.  But  uotwilhslandini^  this,  Stephen  Hall,  E>q.  one 
of  the  delegates,  took  his  seat  in  the  Convention  ;  and  a  vote 
was  passed,  that  the  other  delegates  from  Fahnouth  had  a  right 
to  a  seat,  and  a  committee  was  appointed  to  intortn  them  that 
such  was  the  opinio^)  of  the  Convention. 

There  is  also  among  the  files  of  the  Convention,  a  letter  from 
the  town  of  Northyarmouth,  expressing  their  reasons  for  not 
joining  in  the  choice  of  delegates,  and  for  the  unanimous  opinion 
of  that  town  against  a  separation. 

There  is  likewise  a  letter  on  file  from  Daniel  M'Fadden,  one 
of  the  delegates  for  Georgetown,  excusing  himself  from  attending 
the  Convention,  and  advising  them  to  prepare,  and  offer  to  the 
people,  the  form  ol  government  which  ihej  proposed  to  recom- 
mend. He  gives  an  opinion  in  this  letter,  that  **  a  house  of 
representatives  would  be  sufficient  to  rule,"  saying,  that  '^  there 
might  be  as  wise  men  in  the  house  as  in  the  chajr,and  that  busi- 
ness might  be  done  much  quicker." 

in  consequence  ol  the  adjournment  of  the  Convention  to  the 
first  Wednesday  of  September,  and  the  recommendation  that  a 
new  delegation  should  take  place,  and  meet  at  the  same  time,on 
the  6th  of  September  1786,  there  were  two  Conventions  assem- 
bled at  Falmouth.  The  difficulty  which  this  occasioned,  was 
removed  b}^  the  first  vote  of  the  new  Convention.  After  organ- 
izing themselves  by  the  unanimous  re-election  of  the  president 
and  clerk  of  the  former  Convention,  a  "  coalescence"  of  the  two 
was  immediately  voted.  Being  thus  united,  the  returns  of  the 
new  delegates  were  examined,  and  the  following  is  the  list  of 
them  : 

COUNTY  OF  YORK 
Bemick,  Dr.  Nathaniel  Low  ;  Jrundel,    Thomas    Perkins  ; 
Fry eouroh,  Moses  Ames  ;  Brownjield,^ Henry   Young    Brown, 
Esq  James  Haywood. 

COUNTY  OF  CUMBERLAND. 
Poiilawl,  Peleg  VVadsworth,  Samuel  Freeman, Stephen  Hall, 
Daniel  Davis,  Stephen  Codman  ;  Scrtr6orow^/i,  Joshua  Fabyan  , 
Cape  Eiizahethy\j^T7A\\di  Dei!ano,Cary  ]VrLeil3n,*'James  Leach? 
Gor/^im,  *  William  Gofham,  President,  ^Edmund  Phinney, ^Ste- 
phen Lr^ngfeliow,  jun.  Cltrk  ;  Standish,  Seth  Spring  ;  JS^ew- 
Gloucester,'^ John  Merrill  •  Gmi/,  *Jeded tab  Cobb  ;  Brunswick, 
Aaron  ijinckley. 

COUNTY  OF  LINCOLN. 
Uancock,  John  Philbrooh  ;  Fflmi/6or3W^/?,  ^Dennis  Getchel/ ; 


283 

Wimlow,  *^imri  Haywood  ;  Topsham,  *Samue!  Thompson  j 
jB/tVio/,*VV  iilidiTi  Jones  ;  j\€?a?cas//f  *6aniuel  Nichols  ;  Hollow- 
ell,  *Damel  Coney  ;  Bath,  Dummei  Sewall  j  PiUstotiy  *Keu- 
ben  Coburn  ;   Winthrop,  Jo^hii-^  Bean. 

*JVlembersofthe  former  Convention. 

The  business  transatied  by  thus  Conveniiun,  uhich  was  only 
two  (Jays  in  session,  broOght  the  subject  to  a  considerable  de- 
gree of  forwardness.  They  voted,  that  *'  In  the  opinion  of  this 
Converition,  the  counties  ot  York,  Cumberland,  and  Lincoln, 
labour  under  grievances." 

**  That  it  is  the  opinion  of  this  Convention,  the  grievances 
stated  by  the  former  Convention  (i^xcept  the  filth  article)  are  re- 
al grievances,  that  the  counties  oi  York,  Cumberland,  and  Lin- 
coln now  labour  under." 

"  That  a  committee  of  nine  be  appointed,  to  consider  what 
further  grievances  said  counties  labour  under  " 

The  report  of  this  committee  does  not  at  all  comport  with  the 
nature  of  their  commission.  As  to  the  additional  list  of  griev- 
ances, which  they  were  appointed  to  exhibit,  the  report  merely 
states  that  there  were  such,  which  demanded  the  serious  atten- 
tion of  the  Convention  ;  but  that  they  could  not  at  that  time 
**  undertake  io  enumerate  the  muUiplicity  of  them  ;'*  and,  upon  the 
whole,  referred  the  Convention  to  the  list  fumerly   published. 

But  they  proceeded  to  say,  '*  that  injustice  to  their  constitu- 
ents, they  esteemed  it  their  duty  to  inform  the  Convention,  that 
they  could  not  devise  any  mode  which  would  substantially  and 
eflPectually  remove  the  evils  cotnplained  of,  except  the  citizens 
of  said  counties  were  invested  with  the  privilege  of  legislating 
for  themselves."  ^.nd  they  further  gave  it  as  their  opinion,  that 
**  the  Convention  should  draught  a  petition  to  the  General 
Court,  requesting  their  consent,  that  the  said  counties  should  be 
erected  into  a  separate  government  ;  and  that  the  same,  accom- 
panied with  an  address  to  the  people  upon  the  subject,should  be 
transmitted  to  the  inhabitants  of  the  several  towns  and  planta- 
tiots  for  their  consideration." 

This  report  was  readily  accepted  ;  and  a  committee  was 
thereup<m  chosen  to  draw  up  the  address  to  the  people,  and  the 
petition  to  the  General  Court,  which  was  therein  recommended,  ' 
This  address  anii  petition  are  in  the  Appendix,  No.  III.  They 
were  accepted  by  the  Convention,  and  ordered  to  be  printed, 
together  with  the  list  of  grievances  stated  by  the  former  ConveK- 


284 

tbn,  to  be  signed  by  tbe  president,  aud  forwarded  to  the  peo- 
pie.  Tbe  Convention  was  then  adjourned  to  the  last  Wednes- 
day of  January  then  ensuing. 

At  the  arrival  of  this  period,  the  business  bad  assumed  a  very 
serious  a«peci ;  the  cause  of  which  1  will  explain,  after  stating 
the  reiurns  from  the  towns  and  pL-intalion^  upon  the  question  of 
a  separation.  It  will  be  noticed,  that  in  the  address  to  the 
people,  the  Conveniion  had  requested  the  clerks  of  the  towns 
and  plantations  '*  to  t)e  particular  in  making  *'  returns  of  the 
number  of  voters, for  and  against  a  separation."  In  cump'iance 
with  this  request,  of  ninety  three  towns  and  plantations,  thirty- 
two  only  made  return?;  Eight  of  the  ninety-three  cho:5e  dele- 
gates, but  made  no  returns  ;  fifty  three,  iheref()!e,were  not  rep- 
resented in  any  manner.  Otihe  lhiri^-tv\o  towns  and  planta- 
tions which  made  returns,  thirty-luur  were  in  favour  of,  and 
eight  ag.fiii^t.  a  separation  The  plantation  of  Wales  (now  in- 
corporated by  the  nan^e  of  Monmouth)  sent  their  returns  after 
the  Convention  was  adjourned.  The  number  of  votes  from  this 
plantation  were  twenty  seven,  and  were  unanimous  in  favour  of 
a  separation.  The  whole  number  of  votes  returned  was  nine 
hundred  and  «^eventy,  of  which  six  hundred  and  eighteen  were 
in  the  affirmative. 

The  Convention  now  proceeded  to  discuss  the  only  question 
of  any  importance  that  could  come  before  them,  which  was, 
whether  the  petition,  the  form  of  which  had  been  proposed  to 
the  people,  '*  shall  now  be  presented  to  the  Legislature  '.^"  A  vole 
had  been  passed,  *'  that  as  there  hau  been  a  number  of  respec- 
table towns  in  the  counties  of  York,  Cumberland,  and  Lincoln, 
that  have  not  certified  to  this  Convention  their  determination 
of  a  separate  state,  and  as  Oie  Commonwealth  in  general  is  at 
this  time  in  a  perplexed  state,  and  this  Convention  being  un- 
willing to  do  any  thing  that  shall  seem  to  lay  any  greater  bur- 
then on  the  General  Court, therefore  it  is  the  opi'iion  of  this  Con- 
vention to  postpone  petitiiming  for  a  separation  at  present. 
There  was  a  motion  for  the  reconsideration  of  this  vote,  the  dis- 
vussion  of  which  was  lengthy,  interesting  and  spirited, the  cau3^ 
of  which  1  will  now  pioceed  to  explain. 

The  distress  which  every  part  of  the  government  vvps  at  this 
time  involved  in,  by  the  scarcity  of  money  and  the  public  bur- 
thens,was  fell  in  these  counties  in  a  degree  equal  to  any  part  of 
the  Commonwealth.  The  people  were  not  merely  depressed, 
they  were  Ucome    possessed   of  thai  kind  of  sullen  obstinacy 


285 

which  is  sometimes  the  result  of  despair.  In  this  situation,  ig- 
norant of  the  real  cause  of  their  sufferings,  and  judging  of  the 
cause  by  the  effect,  they  would  have  thrown  off  the  yoke  of  any 
government  without  remorse.  It  was  at  this  time  that  the  differ- 
ent sentiments,  by  which  the  members  of  the  Convention  were 
actuated,  might  easily  be  discovered.  Some  of  them,  in  the 
language  of  genuine  insurgents,  did  not  hesitate  to  speak  of  the 
senate  and  attorney-general  as  grievances.  It  was  evident  from 
the  declarations  of  others,  corroborated  by  their  private  circum- 
stances, that  paper  money  and  tender  acts  were  their  objects. 
The  deplorable  situation  of  the  government,  then  in  a  state  of 
civil  war,  had  no  influence  on  the  minds  of  those  who  were  in- 
fested with  these  sentiments.  When  this  situation  was  dwelt 
upon  by  the  friends  of  government  in  the  Convention,  they 
were  answered,  that  **  bow  is  the  golden  opportunity  ;"  the 
meaning  of  which  evidently  was,  however  cruel  and  unnatural 
it  may  seem,  that  "  the  legislature  are  now  distracted  with  care 
and  trouble  ;  if  we  apply  to  them  at  this  time,  they  will  not 
dare  to  refuse  our  request  ;  and  if  they  do,  we  can  drive  them 
inlo  a  compliance,  by  threatening  to  join  in  the  insurrection." 
When  this  disposition  to  perplex  the  government  was, in  a  point- 
ed and  severe  manner,  reprobated  by  one  of  the  Portland  dele- 
gates, he  was  told  that  he  was  **  ouc  of  his  senses." 

But  notwithstanding  these  unfavourable  appearance?,  it  is  but 
just  to  observe,  that  some  of  the  principal  prompters  of  a  sepa- 
ration were  men  of  judgment  and  moderation,  and  manifested 
their  disapprobation  of  the  petitions  being  then  presented  to  the 
legislature,  and  voted  accordingly.  But  the  vote  for  the  delay 
in  presenting  the  petition  was  reconsidered  by  a  majority  of  15 
to  18,  and  it  was  accordingly  put  into  the  hands  of  a  committee, 
with  discretionary  power  to  retain  it.  or  present  it  to  the  Gener- 
al Court  then  in  sess-ion,  as  they  saw  fit. 

The  feelings  of  the  people  had  now  become  interested  in  the 
doings  of  the  Convention.  It  was  the  op.nion  of  many  judicious 
men,  that  the  expectations  of  relief,wliich  the;^  ha«'  formed  from 
this  quarter,  were  the  principal  cause  of  their  quietness,  during 
the  troubles  in  the  west  of  the  Comnjonw^aiih.  It  is  certain 
they  exclaimed  loudly  against  the  governruent  ;  and  1  have  no 
doubt  but  might  readily  have  been  stiniulated  to  acts  of  violence. 
Those  towns  which  were  most  dissatisfied,  were  most  regular 
in  the  ch(>ice  of  delegates  ;  and  it  is  natural  to  suppose,  that 
vrhen  tfaiese  delegates  returned  to  their  constituents,  they  flatter- 


286 

ed  them  with  hopes  of  relief  from  a  government  of  their  owm. 
These  hopes,  to  be  sure,  must  have  been  delusive  to  the  last  de- 
gree, if  a  speedy  removal  of  their  burthens  was  the  object  of  the 
people.  If,  therefore,  this  Convention  was  the  means  of  pre- 
venting an  insurrection  in  this  part  of  the  country,  it  is  an  addi- 
tional proof  that  good  often  comes  out  of  evil.  Upon  the  whole, 
I  am  inclined  to  believe  that  it  was.  For,  without  meaning  to 
derogate  from  the  majesty  of  the  people,  I  may  be  excused  in 
saying,  that  they  are  often  led  by  appearance,  rather  than  real- 
ity  ;  and  that,  for  this  reason,  they  are  sometimes  deceived  and 
imposed  upon  by  those  whom  they  depute  for  their  servants,  es- 
pecially in  matters  of  opinion.  It  might,  therefore,  be  very  ea- 
sy to  persuade  them,  that  a  Convention(the  very  name  of  which 
is  a  consolation  to  the  discontented  multitude)  possessed  both 
the  disposition  and  the  power  to  administer  the  requisite  as- 
sistance. 

From  the  31st  of  January, 1787,  the  Convention  was  adjourn- 
ed to  the  5th  of  September  following.  Another  attempt  was 
then  made  to  collect  the  sentiments  of  the  people.  A  vole  wag 
passed,  appointing  a  committee  to  prepare  an  **  address  and  sub- 
scription paper,"  which  was  to  be  forwarded  to  the  people,  in- 
forming them  of  the  state  of  the  petition  (which  had  been  pre- 
sented to  the  legislature)  and  requesting  them  to  **  feign  for  or 
against  a  separation.'*  But  there  were  never  any  returns  of  it , 
and  from  this  lime,  the  whole  business,  and  the  Convention  it- 
self gradually  fell  asleep.  There  were  five  or  six  other  adjourn- 
mtnls  ;  but  no  business  was  done,  and  none  of  the  members  at- 
tended, except  the  president  and  clerk,  and  the  members  for 
Portland.  At  the  last  of  these  adjournments,  there  were  only, 
three  of  the  Portland  members  present.  One  of  them  was  chos- 
en president  pro  ten^pore,  another  clerk  ;  the  third  made  a  mo- 
tion for  an  adjournment  ;  but  as  there  was  no  one  present  but 
the  president  and  clerk  to  second  the  motion,  the  Convention 
expired,  not  only  without  a  groan,  but  without  a  single  mourner 
to  weep  over  its  remains  ! 

APPENDIX.— No.  L 

At  a  meeting  of  a  number  of  respectable  inhabitants  of  the 
counties  of  York,  Cumberland,  and  Lincoln,  at  Messrs.  Smith 
and  Deane's  meeting  house,  in  Falmouth,  on  the  fifth  of  Octc- 
b€;r  instant— agreeably  to  a   notiiicalion   published  in  the  Fal*. 


287 

mouth  Gazette,  of  September  17tb,  and  1st  October,  instant,  ia 
order  to  forna  some  plan  for  collecting  the  sentiments  of  said  in- 
habitants, on  the  subject  of  said  counties  being  formed  into  a 
separate  state : 

-  Voted,  That  the  subscribers  be  a  committee  to  apply  to  the 
several  towns  and  plantations  in  said  counties,  requesting  them 
to  send  delegates  to  meet  at  said  meeting-house,  on  the  first 
Wednesday  of  January  next,  at  ten  o'clock,  A.  M.  to  consider 
the  expediency  of  said  counties  being  formed  into  a  separate 
state  ;  and  if,  after  mature  consideration,  it  should  appear  to 
them  expedient,  to  pursue  ftome  regular  and  orderly  method  of 
carrying  the  same  into  effect." 

Pursuant  to  the  above  vote,  we  the  committee  aforesaid,  here- 
by request  the  inhabitants  of—,  to  choose  a  delegate  or 
delegates,  to  meet  at  the  time  and  place  above-mentionftd,for  the 
purpose  aforesaid.      PELEG  WADSWORTH,  Chairman. 

STEPHEN  LONGFELLOW,  Jm 

WILLIAM  GOKHAM, 

STEPHEN  HALL, 

JEREMIAH  HILL, 

JOSHUA  FABIAN, 

HENRY  Y.  BROWN, 
Falmouth,  October  1 5thy  1 786. 
To  the  inhabitants  of 

No.  IL 

At  a  Convention  of  delegates  from  a  number  of  towns  in  tb« 
counties  of  York,  Cumherhud,  and  Lincoln,  held  at  Falmouth, 
on  the  first  Wednesday  of  January,  1786  : — The  Hoh.  Wiiliam 
Gorhara,  Esq.  was  chosen  President,  Mr.  Stephen  Longfellow, 
jun.  Clerk. 

It  was  then  voted,  that  a  committee  of  nine  be  chosen  to  state 
the  grievances,  which  the  three  counties  of  York,  Cumberland, 
and  Lincoln  labour  under,  as  connected  with  the  other  counties 
in  the  Commonwealth  of  Massachusetts,  from  which  they  are 
separated  by  the  intervention  of  the  state  of  New-Hampshire  ; 
and  also  to  form  an  estimate  of  the  expense  of  a  separate  gov- 
ernment, and  compare  the  same  with  the  expense  of  the  govern- 
ment they  are  now  under — who  reported  as  follows  : — 

That  from  their  local  situation,  their  interests  are  different  ; 
and  consequently  cannot  be  fully  understood,  particularly  at- 
tended to  and  promoted  in  their  present  connexion  j  whereby 


288 

tbeir  growth  and  rmportance  are  prevented,  which  retards  that 
of  the  United  States. 

That  the  General  Court  of  the  Commonwealth  of  Massachu- 
setts being  so  large,  and  their  business  so  various  and  perplex- 
ing, unavoidably  renders  it  inconvenient  and  expensive  to  the 
inhabitants  of  those  counties,  both  with  regard  to  their  members 
at  court,  and  suitors  ibr  justice. 

That  applications  to  the  supreme  executive  authority,  being 
frequently  necessary,  are  attended  with  great  expense  ;  to  the 
injury  and  prejudice  of  the  inhabitants  of  those  counties. 

That  the  business  of  the  Supreme  Judicial  Court,  from  the 
extent  of  territories,  is  so  great  as  renders  a  proper  arrangement 
in  that  department  exceedingly  difficult :  and  to  repair  to  their 
office  at  Boston  is  very  expensive. 

That  the  present  regulations  of  trade  operate  unequally,  and 
against  those  counties,  by  reducing  the  price  of  lumber,  vvhich 
is  detrimental  to  those  that  are  employed  in  making  the  same  ; 
while  they  tend  to  the  emolument  of  many  in  the  other  part  of 
the  Commonwealth. 

That  we  consider  it  as  a  matter  of  grievance  that  a  consider- 
able part  of  the  inhabitants  of  these  counties  are  deprived  of  a 
vote  in  the  House  of  Representatives,  where  all  money  bills  o- 
riginate  ;  and  there  appears  to  be  no  prospect  of  a  speedy  re- 
lief. 

That  the  present  mode  of  taxation,  by  polls  and  estates,  is 
very  injurious  to  this  territory,  as  the  inhabitants  cannot  be  em- 
ployed to  the  same  advantage,  and  their  stocks  are  not  so  profit- 
able ;  neither  can  their  lands  be  so  advantageously  improved,  as 
in  the  other  part  of  the  Commonwealth,  where  they  enjoy  a 
milder  climate. 

That  the  excise  and  impost  acts  operate  grievously  on  the  in- 
habitants of  those  counties,  as  they  have  not  in  general  the  ad- 
vantage of  orchards;  and  the  keeping  of  sheep  is  difficult  and 
expensive,  by  the  hazard  from  wolves  and  other  beasts  of  prey, 
and  the  great  length  of  their  winters. 

That  the  act  imposing  a  duty  on  deeds,  &c.  operates  une- 
qually, by  reason  of  the  more  frequent  conveyances  of  real  prop- 
erty in  a  new  than  m  old  settled  countries. 

That  the  necessary  attendance  upon  the  state  treasury  is  in- 
convenient, expensive  and  grievous. 

The  committee  have  taken  a  view  of  the  several  constitutions 
of  the  United  States  ;  and  it om   some    calculations   they  have 


289 

made,  are  of  opinion  that  a  separate  government  may  be  adopt- 
ed, whereby  a  very  considerable  part  of  the  expense,  now  paid 
by  these  counties,  may  be  saved  : — But  not  knowing  what  form 
of  government  the  people  in  said  counties  would  choose,  in  case 
of  a  separation,  they  have  not  thought  proper  to  report  any  es^ 
limate  thereon. 

Voted,  To  subjoin  the  following  to  the  report  of  the  above 
committee. 

As  a  full  representation  is  supposed  to  be  the  most  likely  way 
to  obtain  a  redress  of  grievances,  we  hope  the  several  towns  in 
these  counties  will  pay  that  attention  which  our  peculiar  cir- 
cumstances require,  by  a  general  choice  of  members  to  repre- 
sent them  in  General  Court  the  next  year. 

Voted,  That  the  report  of  the  above  committee,  with  what  is 
subjoined  thereto,  be  signed  by  the  president  of  this  Convention, 
and  transmitted  to  the  several  towns  and  plantations  in  the 
counties  of  York,  Cumberland,  and  Lincoln,  requesting  them  to 
choose  a  delegate  or  delegates,  at  their  annual  meeting  in  March 
next,  or  at  such  other  meeting  as  they  shall  think  proper,  to 
meet  in  Convention  on  the  first  Wednesday  of  September  next, 
at  the  meeting-house  in  the  first  parish  of  Falmouth,  at  ten  o'- 
clock. A.  M.  to  consider  of  the  grievances  the  inhabitants  of  said 
counties  labour  under  ;  and  to  adopt  and  pursue  some  orderly 
and  peaceable  measure  to  obtain  relief;  and  also  requesting  said 
inhabitants  to  certify  to  said  Convention  the  number  of  voters 
for  and  against  said  choice  of  delegates. 

WILLIAM  GORHAM;  President. 

No.  HI. 

Proceedings  of  the  Convention^  held  at  P  or  timid  ^  September  6th, 
1786. 

At  a  Convention  of  delegates  from  a  number  of  towns  and 
plantations,  in  the  three  counties  of  York,  Cumberland,  and  Lin- 
coln, held  at  Portland,  on  Wednesday  the  6th  day  of  September 
1786 — for  the  purpose  of  considering  the  grievances  which  the 
inhabitants  oi  said  counties  labour  under,  and  adopting  some  or- 
derly and  peaceable  measure  to  obtain  relief. — Hon.  William 
Gorham,  Esq.  being  first  chosen  president,  and  Mr.  Stephen 
Longfellow,  jr.  Clerk. 

Votedy  That  the  folIowing.address  and  form  of  a  petition  there- 
in referred  to,  be  transmitted  to   the   several   towns  and  planta- 
tions in  the  said  three  counties^  as  soon  as  may  be. 
25 


290 

Friends  and  Brethren » 

Agreeably  to  the  duties  of  our  appointment,  we  have  taken 
into  serious  consideration  the  grievances  that  the  inhabitants  of 
these  three  counties  labour  under  ;  and,  after  a  close  attention 
to  this  important  subject,  are  clearly  of  opinion,  that  they  can- 
not be  remedied  ir)  tbeir  present  connexion  with  the  other  part  of 
the  Cottimonwealth.  Our  local  situation,  the  nature  ofour  com- 
merce, and  the  jarring  of  our  interests,  render  it  necessar)-,  in 
o-der  to  an  effectual  rennoval  of  then),  that  we  should  be  erected 
into  an  independent  state, 

The  expediency  of  this  measure  has  engaged  the  attention  of 
the  public  for  a  long  time — it  has  been  considered,  as  ii  un- 
doubtedly ought  to  be,  a  subject  of  the  greatest  importance. 
Two  Conventions  have  had  it  before  tbem,and  have  careiully 
attended  to  the  arguinents  which  h^ve  been  offered  on  both  sides 
of  the  question. 

We  now  communicate  to  you  the  result  of  our  present  delib- 
erations ;  and  we  submit  it  to  your  wise  and  prudent  consider- 
ation. 

You  feel  yourselves  distressed,  and  your  distresses  will  in- 
crease until  you  legislate  foryouselves. — In  this  there  i<  no  great 
difficulty  Government  is  a  very  simple,  easy  thing.  Mysteries 
i:)  poliliiiki-a4H2^  mere  absurd  itiejj — invented  entirely  to  grntify 
the  ambition  of  princes  and  desigr jng  men — to  aggrandize  those 
who  govern,  at  the  expense  of  those  who  are  governed. 

But  the  end  of  government  is  the  good  of  the  people — the  on- 
ly design  of  its  institution  is  to  «ecure  to  them,  as  far  as  possi- 
ble, the  blessings  of  life.  We  therefore,  injustice  to  our  con- 
stituents, to  ourselves,  to  the  good  citizens  ot  the  three  counties, 
and  of  the  Commonwealth  at  large,  address  you  upon  the  sub- 
ject ;  and  transmit  to  you  a  form  of  a  petition  to  the  General 
Court,  requesting  them  to  relinquish  ail  right  of  jurisdiction  in 
this  eastern  territory  ;  and  to  give  their  consent  that  the  same 
may  be  formed  into  a  separate  state. 

And  we  do  earnestly  call  upon  every  tVee  citizen  within  the 
said  counties,  to  take  the  same  into  his  most  serious  considera- 
ation  ;  and  each  one,  for  himself,  give  his  vote  for  or  against  a 
separation. 

And  we  also  de-^ire  each  town  and  p'antation,  within  the  said 
counties,  to  meet  for  the  purpose  ;  and  transmit  their  doings  to 
thi=;  Convention,  at  their  adjournmrnt. 

Foted,  That  those  towns  and  plantations  that  have  not  <iho- 


291 

sen,  be  desired  to  choose  delegates  to  attend  at,  or  send  their 
votes  to  this  Convention,  at  the  adjournment;  otherwise  they 
will  be  considered  as  acquiescing  in  ihe  doings  of  Iheir  brelb- 
rtn. — It  i*  earnestly  recommended  to  the  selectmen  of  towns, 
arid  committees  of  plantations,  to  notify  public  meetings  for  the 
pnrpof^e  ;  and  to  ilie  clerks  of  the  several  towns  and  plantations, 
that  they  he  particular  in  making  returns  of  the  number  of  vo- 
ters, for  and  against  a  separation. 

FORM  OF  THE  PETITION. 

To  ihe  Honorable  Senate  and  House  of  Representatives  of  the 
Commonwealth  of  Massachusetts^  in  General  Court  assembled. 
The  petition  of  the  inhabitants  of  the  towns  and  plantations  of 
the  counties  of  York,  Cumberland,  and  Lincoln,  by  their  dele- 
gates, met  in  Convention,  at  Portland,  the  day  of 
humbly  sheweth — that  the  inhabitants  of  said  countie?,  previous 
to  the  late  revolution,  considered  themselves  a  part  of  the  gov- 
ernment of  Massachusetts  ;  and,  at  the  formation  of  the  present 
constitution,  they  either  approved  of,  or  submitted  to  the  same, 
and  have  cheerfully  joined  in  support  of  government,  and  have 
paid  due  obedience  to  the  laws  thereof;  and  at  the  present  time 
they  feel  m.ost  sensibly,  the  difficulties  in  common  to  the  vari- 
ous parts  of  the  Commonwealth,  and  are  ready  to  exert  them- 
selves to  the  utmost  of  their  power,  to  remove  them,  by  paying 
their  taxes,  and  supporting  good  order,  and  the  laws  of  the  gov- 
ernment ;  but  when  they  take  a  view  of  the  political  disadvanta- 
ges they  labour  under,  peculiar  to  their  local  situation,  b^ing 
separated  from  the  other  part  of  the  government  by  the  inter- 
vention of  another  state,  as  well  as  their  great  distance  from  the 
seat  of  government,  they  look  upon  it  a  duty  they  owe  them- 
selves and  their  brethren  in  the  other  part  of  the  state,  and  to  the 
United  States  in  general,  in  a  peaceful  and  dutiful  manner,  and 
agreeably  to  the  constitution,  to  lay  then>  before  the  honorable 
Court,  and  request  that  they  would  relinquish  all  right  of  juris- 
diction over  said  counties  and  consent  that  they  may  be  formed 
into  a  separate  government,  as  they  apprehend  this  the  only  ad- 
equate remedy  to  the  difficulties  complained  of. 

And  while  they  are  taking  this  peaceful  measure  to  obtain  a 
redress  of  their  great  political  evils,  by  asking  for  a  separation 
from  the  other  part  of  the  Commonwealth,  they  do  not  entertain 
an  idea  of  throwing  off  the  weight  of  the  public  debt,  at  this 
time  lying  upon  the  government  at  large,  or  to  prevent  the  other 


292 

part  of  Ihe  Commonwealth  from  having  their  just  proportion  of 
the  unappropriated  lands  ;  but,  like  friends  aiii!  brethren,  most 
ardently  wish  to  have  all  matter?  adjusted  upon  the  broadest  ba- 
sis of  equity  and  fair  dealing. 

Therefore  your  petitioners  humbly  pray,  tliat  your  honours 
would  take  their  circumstances  into  your  wise  consideration, 
and  adopt  such  measures  as  you  in  your  wisdom  may  think  fit ; 
and  they,  as  in  duty  bound,  will  ever  pray. 

Proceedings  o/trvo  Coyiveniions  on    the  subject  of  Separation  in 
\193and  1794. 

At  a  meeting  of  a  number  of  gentlemen  from  various  parts 
of  the  District  of  Maine,  holden  at  the  court-house  in  Portland, 
October  18th,  1793,  in  consequence  of  a  printed  notification  in 
the  words  following,  viz  : — 

*'  NOTICE- 

**  As  the  tinie  of  revising  the  constitution  of  this  Common- 
wealth is  fast  approaching,  and  as  it  seems  the  general  opinion 
that  a  separation  of  Maine  must  then  take  place  ;  it  is  earnestly 
requested  that  as  many  gentlemen  as  conveniently  can,  will  at- 
tend at  the  court-hou.^e  to  morrow  evening,  at  six  o'clock,  to 
consider  and  adopt  such  measure's  as  shall  appear  most  expedi- 
ent to  effect  the  above-mentioned  important  object. 

Thursday,  October  llth,  1793. 

The  Honorabhi  Pelkg  Wadsworth,  Esq.  was  chosen  Chair- 
man^  and  Samuef.  Freeman,  Esq.  Clerk, 

Voted^  1.  As  the  opinion  of  this  meeting,  that  the  tiine  of  re- 
vising the  constitution  of  the  Commonwealth,  will  he  a  proper 
time  tor  erecting  the  ^\e  eastern  counties  into  an  independent 
government. 

Voted,  2.  That  as  that  time  is  fast  approaching,  and  a«  it  is 
probable  the  sentiments  of  the  people  may  ha^e  differed  from 
what  they  were  when  they  were  last  collected,  it  is  exj)edienl 
that  the  sense  of  the  people  of  the  said  five  counties  be  again 
taken  upon  the  sabfect. 

Voted,  3.  That  'the  Hon.  Peleg  Wadsworth,  E<q.  Capt.  John 
Baker,Samuel  Freeman,  Esq  Mr.  James  Deering.  George  War- 
ren, Esq.  Daniel  E pes,  Esq.  Wiljian)  Wjdgery,  Esq.  H^n  Wil- 
liam Gorham,  Esq.  Mr.  Stephen  Longfellow,  Daniel  M-ley.E^q. 
Rev.  Samuel  Deane,  D.  D.  Hon.  David  Mitchell,  E.-q.  Daniel 
Davis,  Esq.  and  Joseph  Noyes,  Esq.  or  the  major  part  ol  tt.em, 
be  a  committee  to  write  to  the  selectmen  of  tbe  several  towns. 


293 

and  the  committees  of  the  several  plantatinns  in  said  counties, 
requesting  them  to  call  a  meeting;  for  the  choice  of  delegates, 
to  meet  in  Convention  at  the  court  house  in  Portland,  on  the  last 
Tuesday  of  Decenibtr  next,  at  ten  o'clock  in  the  forenoon,  to 
take  this  important  matter  under  consideration  ;  and  lay  the  re- 
sult of  their  deliberations  before  thti;  constituents. 

Foted,  4.  That  Samuel  Freeman,  E^q.  be  a  committee  to 
apply  to  the  justices  of  the  court  of  general  sessions  of  the  peace 
for  the  county  of  CumberUnd,  for  liberty  to  make  use  of  th« 
court  house  for  the  foreiioing  purpose. 

PELEG  VVADSWORTH,  Chairman. 

Attest — Samuel  Freeman,  Clerk. 

Gentlemen,  fortland,  oct.  21»<.  1 798. 

As  a  number  of  gentlemen  from  various  parts  of  the  District 
of  Maine,  had  occasion  the  last  week  to  attend  the  court  of  com- 
mon pleas  and  court  of  sessions  of  the  peace  then  sitting  in  this 
town,  it  was  thought  proper  to  advertise  a  general  meeting  of 
all  who  could  conveniently  attend,  to  consider  and  adopt  such 
measures  as  should  appear  most  expedient  to  effect  a  separation 
of  said  District  from  fhe  other  part  of  the  Com>Tionwealth. 

Inconsequence  of  such  advertisement,  a  considerable  number 
of  gentlemen  met  at  the  court  house  on  Friday  last,  and  passed 
the  votes  which  we  herewith  send  you. 

Ai:iceably  to  the  thiid  vole,  we  do  hereby  request  that  you 
would  call  a  meeting  tor  the  choice  of  de'egates  to  form  a  Con- 
ventitJi  at  the  time  and  place,  and  for  the  purposes  therein  men- 
tioned. 

We  flatter  ourselves  you  will  acquiesce  in  this  proposal,  as 
it  is  of  ij^portance  to  have  the  vo'ce  of  all  the  people  in  the 
District  ;  and  we  h'«pe  by  this  fAep  it  will  be  fully  obtained. 

The  tinie  we  have  lor  a  full  discussion  of  this  subject  is  short ; 
and  this  we  presume  will  afford  a  good  reason  for  adopting  this 
plan  ;  and  for  removing  any  objections  that  might  otherwise  a- 
rise  in  the  minds  of  any,  as  to  the  manner  in  which  it  orig'nat- 
ed — especially  when  it  is  considered,  that  in  a  maMer  of  this 
kind  there  can  be  no  rule  for  any  particular  mode  of  proceeding. 

We  are  with  respect,  gentlemen,  your  most  obedient,  humble 
servants.  By  order  of  the  committee 

PELEG  WADSWORTH,  Chairman. 

At  a  Convention  of  delegates  from  the  following  tawns  ih  the 
counties  ot  York,  Cumberland  and  Lincoln,  viz.  t 
25* 


294 

From  York — Fryeburg,Brownfield  and  Waterborough  ;  Cwtw- 
icr/flwc?*- Portland,  Falmouth,  Gorham  and  Hebron  ;  Lincoln — 
Georgetown,  Hallowell,  Bowdoin,  Winlhrop,  Readfield,  Mon- 
mouth, Mount  Vernon  and  Winslow — 

Appointed  to  take  into  consideration  the  expediency  of  erecting 
the  five  eastern  counties,  commonly  called  "  the  District  of 
Maine,"  into  a  separate  government. 

The  towns  in  said  counties  not  having  generally  appointed 
delegates  for  the  purpose  aforesaid,  the  delegates  assembled  as 
aforesaid,  first  took  into  consideration  the  expediency  of  enter- 
ing on  the  business  of  their  appointment  ;  and  having  contem- 
plated the  inclement  season  of  the  year,  and  other  circumstan- 
ces which  may  have  prevented  such  appointments — having  al- 
so received  communications  from  several  towns  and  other  pla- 
ces which  sent  delegates,  and  considered  wbat  appeared  to  be 
the  sentim.ents  of  the  people  in  various  parts  of  the  District,  de- 
termined to  proceed  to  the  consideration  of  the  measure  pro- 
posed. 

They  accordingly  appointed  Samuel  Freeman,  Esq.  Clerk, 
and  the  Hon.  Daniel  Cony,  Esq.  Chairman  of  the  Convention  ; 
and  then  appointed  a  committee  to  consider  of  the  matter,  and 
report  what  was  proper  to  be  done  ;  whose  report  being  made 
to  the  Convention,  was  read,  amended  and  accepted,  as  fol- * 
Jows,  viz. 

Resolved,  That  it  be,  and  hereby  is  recommended  to  the  sev- 
eral towns  and  plantations  in  the  counties  of  York,  Cumberland, 
and  Lincoln,  to  choose  delegates  to  meet  in  Convention  at  Port- 
land, on  the  third  Wednesday  of  June  next,  to  take  into  consid- 
eration the  expediency  of  erecting  the  said  three  counties  of 
York,  Cumberland  and  Lincoln  into  a  separate  government. 
The  result  of  their  deliberations  to  be  laid  before  their  constit- 
uents. 

The  Convention  ground  this  resolution  on  the  following  rea- 
sons, viz. 

1.  That  in  the  opinion  of  the  Convention,  the  great  extent  of 
the  five  eastern  counties  has  beretufore  operated  as  an  objection 
against  the  forming  of  the  same  into  a  separate  State  ;  audit 
doth  not  appear  that  they  nre  at  this  tinie,uniled  in  the  measure. 

2.  That  the  counties  of  Hancock  and  Washington  have  man- 
ifested no  inclination  to  separate  themselves  from  the  present 
gove^nmen^ 

3.  That  in  the  opinion  of  the  Convention,  a  majority  of  the 
'^nhabitaints  of  Cumberland  and  Lincoln  wish   for  a  separation  ; 


293 

amd  that  they  may  be  as  well  accommodated  by  a  separation  of 
the  three  counties,  as  of  the  five  ;  and  those  of  the  county  of 
York,  nr.uch  better. 

4.  That  the  said  three  counties  of  York,  Cumberland  and 
Lincoln,  are  sufficiently  extensive  and  populous  for  a  distinct 
State,  and  more  so  than  several  of  the  Slates  in  the  Union. 

[Dissentients — Hon  Josiah  Thatcher,  Esq.  Mr.  Samuel  Wal- 
do, and  Capt.  Daniel  Tucker.] 

Foted,  That  the  proceedings  of  the  Convention  be  signed  by 
the  chairman,  and  attested  by  the  clerk;  and  printed  copies 
thereof  transmitted  by  the  clerk  to  the  selectmen  of  the  several 
towns,  and  assessors,  committees,  or  principal  inhabitants  of  the 
several  plantations,  in  the  said  three  counties. 

DANIEL  COl^Y,  Chairman, 

Attest—SATAVEL  Freeman,  Clerk, 

At  a  Convention  of  delegates  convened  at  Portland,  the  third 
Wednesday  of  June  1794,  the  following  members  were  return- 
ed :— 

FROM  YORK  COUNTY. 

Fryehurg,  Moses   Ames  ;    Browtifield,    Henry  Y.    Brown  ; 
Biddeford^    Prentiss   Mellen,     Jeremiah    Hill ;     Parsonsfield, 
Thomas  Parsons  ;  Sudbury  Canada,  (^Bethel)  John  York. 
CUMBERLAND. 

Fa/mowi/i,  Nathaniel  Wilson,  John  Quimby  ;  Standish,  John 
Dean  ;  Portland,  Thomas  Motley,  Salmon  Chase.  Col.  James 
Lunt,Williarn  Symms,John  Bagley  ;  Gor/iam,William  Gorham, 
Edmund  Phinney,  George  Lewis. 

LINCOLN. 

Hallowcll,  Nathaniel  Dummer ;  Readfield^  John  Hubbard  ; 
Winthrop,  Nathaniel  Fairbanks  ;  Green,  Benjamin  Morrell  ; 
Georgetown,  John  Rogers  ;  Bowdoin,  Samuel  Tibbet  ;  Lewiston 
and  Gore,  Joel  Thompson  ;   West-Pond,  Joel  Richardson. 

Nathaniel  Dummkr,  Esq.  was  appointed  Secretary,  and 
William  Gohham,  Esq.  President. 

A  committee  of  three  from  each  county  was  appointed  to  take 
the  subject  matter  of  their  meeting  into  consideration  and  re- 
port what  wa?  proper  to  be  done*  This  committee  consisted 
of  VVm.  Gorham,  Nathaniel  Dummer,  Henry  Y.  Brown, Thomas 
Par*ons,  Prentiss  Mellen, William  Symms,  Salmon  Chase,John 
Hubbard  and  Nathaniel  Fairbanks. 

Adjourned  to  10  o'clock  to  morrow. 


296 

Thursdlaj,  June  19»h,  ihe  Convention  met  accordinsj  to  ad- 
Jourtiment,  the  cuinmiltee  reported  progress  and  had  leave  to  sit 
again,  and  the  Convention  adjourned. 

Friday,  June  20fh,  the  committee  made  a  report  which  was 
read  and  considered  by  paragraphs,  and  accepted  ;  and  there* 
upon,  ordered,  that  the  address  submitted  hy  the  comn  ittee  be 
signed  by  the  President  and  Secretary.  It  was  then  voted. that 
the  statement  and  calculation  made  by  the  committee  be  refer- 
red to  the  adjournment — that  300  copies  of  the  same  be  print- 
ed and  forwarded  to  the  towns  and  plantations  with  the  ad- 
dies?  ;  that  a  committee  of  three  from  each  county  be  ap- 
pi  inted  to  dislrit)ute  them  ;  and  iVentiss  Mellen,  Henry  Y. 
Brown,  Thomas  Parsons,  Wm  Gorham,  Thomfls  Motley,  John 
Dean,  Nath  <niel  Dummer,  Nathaniel  Fairbanks  and  Benjan  in 
Morrell  were  chosen — and  William  Symm?,Erq.was  appouiled 
to  superintend  the  p*inting. 

Voted,  That  the  thanks  of  the  Convention  be  presented  to 
the  Episcopal  Society  for  the  use  of  their  church. 

The  Convention  then  adjourned  to  the  2d  Tuesday  of  Octo- 
ber then  next. 

Address  of  the  Convention  assembled  at  Portland  on  the  third 
Wedn esr/a y  of  June.  1194, 
[CIRCULAR.] 
To  the  inhabitants  of  the  town  oj 

PORTLAND,  FRIDAY,  JUNE  20,    1794. 
FELLOW  CITIZENS, 

The  Convention  which  met  at  Portland  in  December  last, 
having  recommended  to  the  towns,  districts  and  plantations  in 
the  counties  of  York,  Cumberland  and  Lincoln,  to  send  dele- 
gates to  meet  in  Convention  at  the  same  place,  on  the  third 
Wednesday  of  J  /ne  current  for  the  purpose  of  considering  the 
expediency  (»f  erecting  the  said  coun'ies  into  a  separate  Stale, 
fourteen  towns  and  three  plantations  have  accordingly  met,  and 
taken  the  subject  into  their  con.'^iderafion. 

We  find  that  it  is  not  only  the  general  opinion,  but  admits  of 
no  doubt,  that  a  separation  mu:st  s^ooner  or  later  t^ke  place  ;  not 
only  because  the  District  is  actually  severed  from  the  Comrnon- 
weallh,  by  the  inteivention  of  another  Sl^te,  liut  by  rea^-on  of 
many  inconveniences  that  hive  increased  to  an  almost  intoler- 
alie  degree. 

We  alsoiiind  that  even  now  it  is  probable  that  if  a  •jeparation 


297 

should  take  place  as  soon  as  the  same  can  be  effected  according 
to  the  constitution  ci  the  United  Slates,  we  should  not  only  be 
exempted  from  any  new  burdens  or  expenses,  but  should  be 
relieved  from  many  which  we  now  bear,  and  reap  many  ad- 
vantages, of  which  in  the  present  state  of  things  we  are  una- 
voidably deprived. 

However,  considering  the  subject  before  us  as  of  the  highest 
importance,  and  by  no  means  to  be  lightly  determined,  we  wish 
for  all  the  information  and  assistance  that  we  can  derive  from 
any  quarter,  more  especially  from  a  representation  of  the  towns 
and  piaiitations  from  which  no  delegates  have  yet  arrived.  We 
therefore  earnestly  request  you  to  unite  with  us  in  discussing 
this  interesting  question,  by  sending  a  delegate  or  delegates  to 
meet  us  at  an  adjournment,  which  we  have  deemed  expedient, 
as  well  for  this  end,  as  that  we  ourselves  may  have  leisure  to 
ripen  a  report  for  the  consideration  of  our  constituents. 

Having  only  the  genera)  good  at  heart,  we  have  no  doubt  that 
we  shall  meet  your  feehngs  in  this  respect,  and  we  trust  that 
you  will  have  no  objection  against  joining  in  deliberations,  the 
sole  object  of  which,  whatever  may  be  their  issue,  will  be  to 
promote  it. 

By  order  of  the  Convention, 

WILLIAM  GORHAM,  President. 

Nathaniel  Dummer,  Secretary. 

Is.  l^  T'ue  CoDventior;  is  a(:jt)urned  lo  the  second  Tuesday 
of  October,  at  2  o'clock,  P.  M-  to  meet  at  Purtland. 

Extract  of  the  rep'^rt  of  a  committee  of  nine  members  {jhree  from 

each  county)  referred    to  the  aJjournment^  but  ordered  to  be 

printed  nndfonenrded  with  the  Jddress, 

The  amount  necessary  for  tije  supfiort  of  government,  a?  ap- 
pears f.y  the  Trea?-urer's  report  to  the  Legislatuie,  in  January 
last,  is  30J2'2/.  13s.  4d.  per  annum.  The  propoftion  of  this  to 
be  [laid  oy  the  District  of  Maine,  on  the  principlesof  the  last 
Tblualion,  will  be  aboijt  5000/.  Au  addi:iona)  sum,  not  less, 
we  prenime,  than  1200/.  is  remitted  to  the  General  Tre'^j<ury, 
from  this  District,  in  duties  of  excise. — The  sum  total  is  6,200/. 

The  proportion  of  public  taxes  on  the  principles  of  the  last 
valu.it'on,  to  be  defrayed  by  the  couolie;^  ot  Hancock  and  Wasb- 
inglon,  is  to  lh.it  which  is  to  l)e  detVayed  by  the  counties  of 
York,  Cumberland  and  Lincoln,  nearly  as  16  to  140. 


298 


The  probable  expense  of  a  new  government, 

is  calculated 

follows : — 

Governor's  s.^lary,          .          -         .         - 

£300 

Lieut.  Governor's  salary,             ... 

120 

Secretary  and  Trea^furer, 

300 

Clerks  of  ditto,          .          -          .         -         . 

140 

Juiifijes  of  the  Supreme  Judicial  Court,     - 

850 

Attorney  General,     -          -          -          -          • 

.       150 

Leori^Iative  Department,          -          .          - 

1500 

Clerks  of  both  Houses,       -          -          -         • 

60 

Mes^eiJiier,             -         •          .          •          . 

30 

Contingencies,          •         -         -         -         - 

-     1200 

£4650 

Sum  now  to  be  paid  to  Massachusetts, 

£6200 

Sum  necessary  to  support  a  Government,     - 

-     4650 

DiflFerence  in  favor  of  a  new  Government, 
All  which  is  submitted. 

Attest,  -  NATHANIEL  DUMMER 


£1550 
,  Sec^n, 


Copy  of  a  letter  of  the  Hon.  Daniel  Cony  to  the  Hon.  John  Ad^ 
ams,  LL,D,  late  President  of  the  United  States. 

Sir — The  circular  enclosed  regards  a  subject  which  has  sev- 
eral limes,  within  forty  years  past,  been  brought  before  the 
public. 

I  have  taken  the  liberty  to  transmit  this  paper  to  you  with  a 
few  lines  on  the  same  subject. 

Government  being  a  contrivance  of  human  wisdom  to  pro- 
vide tor  human  wants,  permit  me  to  ask,  will  a  separate  State 
government  for  Maine  enable  its  inhabitants  the  belter  to  pro- 
vide for  their  wants  ? 

The  science  of  constituting  a  Commonwealth,  of  renovating 
it,  or  of  reforming  it,  like  other  experimental  science,  practical 
in  itself  and  intended  for  practical  purposes,  requires  experi- 
ence, and  all  the  experience  that  man  can  gain  in  his  whole  life. 
It  seems  therefore  desirable  that  advice  should  be  resorted  to, 
and  if  possible,  obtained  from  those  who  have  had  the  experi- 
ence of  a  long  life ;  and  who  have  been  justly  renowned  for 
their  wisdono,  their  virtues,  their  moderation  and  distinguished 
public  services,  considering  that  rights  and  theories,  physically 


299 

true,  may  prove  morally  and  politically  false,  and  upon  so  ?rave 
a  question,  *'  Shall  Maine  separate  Jrom  Massachusetts,^''  I 
should  feel  peculiarly  gratified  to  know  your  opinion. 

There  exists  in  the  minds  of  the  people  here  a  well  grounded 
confidence,  in  the  event  of  a  separation,  that  Maine  will  con- 
tinue to  reverence  our  civil  and  religious  institutions,  so  long 
enjoyed.  They  will  be  so  from  choice,  as  well  as  upon  the 
prif)ciple  upon  which  nature  teaches  us  lo  revere  a  man  on  ac- 
count of  his  age  and  virtues,  and  on  account  of  those  from  whom 
he  was  descended. 

From  the  fostering  care  of  Massachu^^etts,  Maine  though  re- 
mote hath  derived  many  advantages  during;  a  long  connexion; 
but  the  period  has  arrived  when  \he.  public  voice,  by  a  majority 
of  votes  in  Maine,  hath  more  than  intimated  an  opinion,  that  a 
goverHment  established  within  the  territory,  amongst  them- 
selves, W(;uld  be  better  able  to  consult  and  to  promote  the  in- 
terests, the  growth  and  the  welfare  of  the  Siste. 

The  census  of  1790  was  96,o40— of  800  was  150,89G— of 
1810  was  228,705,  and  estimated  1820  v\  ill  be  300.000. 

Be  pleased  to  excu^^e    the   trouble  this  may  give  you,  and  to 
accept  friendly  salutations  fi'om.  Sir, 
Your  obedient  and  humble  servant, 

DANIEL  CONY. 
Augusta.  Maine,  Jan  25,  1819. 

P.  S.  My  right  arm  and  hand  have  become  enfeebled,  hope 
you  wil   be  abl^  to  read  this.  D.  C. 

The  tollowing  is  the  Circular  men'ioned  in  the  above  letter : — 

A  ugvsta^  December  1818 
At  a  meeting-  of  a  number  of  gfentlemen  citizt  ns  of  this  county, 
on  notice  to  consider  the  ever  interesting  subject  of  erecting  aine 
into  an  independent  State,  the  subscribers  were  appointed  a  ci»ra- 
mittee  to  correspond  with  the  members  of  the  Legislature  and  oth- 
ers, supposed  to  he  friendly  to  the  measure,  with  a  view  to  inter- 
change opinions,  and  if  practicatde  fix  upon  some  time  and  mode  to 
bring  the  question  anew  before  the  people  and  the  Legislature. 

We  have  thfrefore  taken  the  liberty  to  address  you  and  invite 
your  attention  to  the  subje<.t.  Ue  have  no  hesitation  m  giving  as 
our  decided  and  deliberate  opinion,  that  the  best  interests  of  Mame 
"will  be  essentially  promoted  by  giving  it  the  control  of  its  own  ener- 
gies.— But  as  to  the  time  and  manner  of  agitating  the  question,  we 
wish  to  collect  the  sentiments  of  its  friends  throughout  the  District. 
Whether  ir  will  beexn^rMent  to  petition  the  Legislature  of  the  next 
political  year,  is  deserving  much  consideration,  and  we  are  not,  at 
< bis  time  prepared  to  give  an  opinion.     Yet,  if,  on    inquiry,  such  a 


course  shall  be  deemed  most  eligible,  we  can  assure  our  friends  that 
this  section  of  the  District  will  cordially  co-operate. 

We  will  thank  you  to  ascertain,  as  far  as  is  convenient,  the  pub- 
lic mind  in  your  section  of  the  country,j;and  write  the  result  to  the 
chairman  of  this  committee  at  Monmouth. 

As  the  friends  of  the  measure  contemplate  a  general  meeting  in 
Boston  during  the  winter,  it  is  desirable,  that  your  communication 
be  received  as  soon  as  possible. 

We  are,  with  respect,  your's&c. 
JOHN  CHANDLER,  TIM.  BOUTELLE, 

JAMES  BRIDGE,  NATHAN  CUTLER, 

E.  T.  WARREN,  REUEL  WILLIAMS, 

Copy  of  a  Letter  from  the  late  President  Adams,  to  Hon.  Daniel 
CoisY,  dated  Quincy,  Feb  J s^,  1819. 

Dear  Sir — My  right  arm  and  hand  have  become  so  enfeebled 
that  I  am  under  the  necessity  of  borrowing  another  to  acknowl- 
edge the  receipt  of  your  obliging  favor  of  January  25th. 

The  question  you  state  to  me  is  of  so  much  importance,  and 
the  decision  of  it  leads  to  consequences  so  extensive,  that  a 
volume  might  be  written  in  favor  of  the  affirmative,  and  another 
in  favor  of  the  negative.  My  forces  are  not  competent  to  the 
composition  of  either. 

My  judgment,  poor  as  it  is,  and  my  inclinations,  strong  as 
they  are,  are  all  on  tlie  side  of  union.  I  can  see  no  public 
benefit  to  arise,  on  the  contrary  much  public  evil  from  that 
spirit  of  division,  partition  and  separation  which  so  unhappily 
prevails  among  our  worthy  fellow-citizens.  It  is  to  Massachu- 
setts and  her  strenuous  exertions  that  Maine  is  indebted  for  her 
preservation  from  the  grasping  clutches  of  Great- Britain. 

But  I  can  tell  you  how  it  will  be  when  there  arises  in  Maine 
a  bold,  daring,  ardent  genius,  with  talents  capable  of  inspiring 
the  people  with  his  own  enthusiasm  and  ambition.  He  will  tear 
off  Maine  from  Massachusetts  and  leave  her  in  a  state  below 
mediocrity  in  the  union.  My  advice  therefore  is  to  remain  as 
you  are  as  long  as  you  can.  Though  I  know  that  my  advice 
will  have  no  weight  with  one  party  or  another,  yet  I  will  pre- 
sent ray  compliments  to  the  worthy  committee  who  have  signed 
the  circular  letter,  and  advise  them  as  they  stand  well  to  stand 
still. 

I  am,  Sir,  with  much  esteem  your  and  their  obliged  friend 
and  humble  servant,  JOHN  ADAMS. 

The  Hon,  Daniel  Cony,  Augusta,  Me, 


ERRATA. 

Fage   48,    dele  last    line.— Pa^e    50,    line  20,   for   Mitle,'  read 
'  little.'— Page  54,  line  15,  from  bottom,  after  'and,'  insert'  that.' — 
Page  60,  line  17  and  16  from  bottom,  rfeZe  '  those  of  Alna  and,'— line 
15  after  '  JS'ew-Portland,'  inset  ^Anson' — line  14,  after,  '•  Orland,'  in- 
sert *  Lincolnville  '-  Pagfe  61,  line  17,  dele    '  in.'— Page  63,  line  16 
Irom  bottom,  after  '  of    insert  '  Delegates.'— Page  67,  line  9,  from 
bottom,  for  '  106'  read  '  105.'— Page  83,  line  21,  for  '  merrily'  read 
'  merely.' — Page  87,    line  6,  for   ''  save,'    read  '  serve' — line  26,  for 
'  Berwick,' read  '  V\ aterborongh.'— Page  89,    after  line  26,   insert, 
'  the  motion  passed  ' — Page  95,    line  3,  from  bottom,    for    ^  house,' 
read  'home'  — Page  99,   line  16,    for  'our,'  read  '  one  ' — Page   102^ 
Ime  2  from  bottom,  for  '  distinct'  read  '  district.'— Page  105,  line  22, 
after  '  would,'  insert  '  not.'— Page  108,  line  14,  for  '3d,'  read   2d.'- 
Page  114,  line  15  from  bottom,  for  *•  Convention,'    read    '  Constitu- 
tion.'—Page  135,  line  12,  for  ^  that'  read  ••  short.'— Page  139,  lines 
2  and  3,  after   '■  Legislature,'    insert  'at,'  and  dele    *  these.'— Page 
141,  line  19,  for   'seventy,'   read  '  twenty.'— Page  160,  line  18,  for 
'confined,'    read    '  confided.'— Page  163,    line  8,   from  bottom,  for 
'  public,'  read  '  reply.'— Page  164,  line  16,    for  'he,'  read  '  the.' — 
Page  172,    for  '  a[)portionment,'   read    '  appointment.' — Page   173, 
line  8,  fo'' would,'    read    ^  could.' — Page  176,    after   line  16,    add 
'  thia   motion    was   lost.'— Page  184,    line  25,    for    '  Lawson,'    read 
'  Lamson.' — Page  185,    line  25.  for    '  espint^'^  read    '  e/^ri/.'— Page 
187,  line  14,  for  '  these  '  read  '  there.'— Page  213,  line  16,  for  '  in,' 
read  '  A.'— Page  221,  line  15  from  b  )ttom,  for  ••  two,'  read  '  ten.' — 
Page  223,    after  the  4th  line    add,  '  this   and  several  other  amend- 
ments were  lost.' — Page  225,  last  line,  for  '  reported,'  read    depart- 
ed.'—Page  228,  lines  12  and  13,  for   '  resource,'    read  '  recourse,— 
Page  237,    line  6,   from  bottom,  for   *  beach  '    read    *  back.' — Page 
242,  line  7,  for  'even,'  read  ^  were.'— -i'age  271,  line  22,  before  'a,' 
insert  *  be.'.  -  Page  254,  line  22,  for  '  and\  read  '  once.'     Page  255, 
line  12,  for  '  substitution,'  read  'constitution.' — Page  262    line  10, 
before  '-  Accepted,'  insert  '  and  he.' — Page  278,  line  4,  for  'June,' 
read  'January.' 


Mi 


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